The average diesel shopper did not do research and say, "Hey, diesel TAXES are higher but the COST is lower than gasoline, so I'll stick with gasoline as a tax protest."
Why would they? There really was no choice for a diesel car in most markets. Remember it was the automakers that made the decision not to offer diesels. Not the consumer. You can spin it anyway you like. Until there are diesel choices the truth will not be revealed. VW has yet to overcome the reliability issues of the past. So there are NO choices for the average American consumer.
"Although there is a HUGE diesel demand and HUGE profit to be made selling diesel cars, automakers are NOT INTERESTED in that HUGE pile of money because it might mean spending $1000 per vehicle to have clean emissions"
J.D. Power, who is an authority on market research, says that diesel will only hit about 10-12% of the market by 2015.
I don't think anyone believes that hybrids will reach 10% by then. And they are much more costly to build than diesel cars.
automakers are NOT INTERESTED in that HUGE pile of money because it might mean spending $1000 per vehicle to have clean emissions"
That is not my position. My position is the Government puts roadblocks the automakers do not want to deal with. Diesel Emissions is a moving target depending on which state you are dealing with. I don't know if they will make huge profits. I know they are losing huge amounts of money right now, due to poor planning. They had ample warning since the 1970s to get decent mileage cars and trucks. They opted for 0-60 ratings so they would get good write-ups in the auto mags.
gary says, "They had ample warning since the 1970s to get decent mileage cars and trucks. They opted for 0-60 ratings so they would get good write-ups in the auto mags. "
That's a valid point, but you gotta preface that by saying the other true part of it:
"The were building the cars that the public wanted to buy."
If the public is demanding diesel in droves, I have not seen it.
Googling "diesel car demand" and "USA" in Google News gives 0 hits.
Googling "demand for diesel cars" usa in Google News gives 2 hits, neither of which is a story about demand for diesel cars in the USA.
Look, Gary: I can COMPLETELY understand how pro-diesel folks can mistakenly think the demand is high because they talk to their other diesel-loving friends who all say, "man I wish there were more diesel cars" and that's the sample they use to form their opinion.
But overall, almost 95% of the cars in this country are not diesel cars.
If a huge number of that 95% of buyers not driving diesel cars WANTS diesel cars, they SURE are quiet about it. They are hiding from JD Power and from every other market research company out there.
Well those are government (registration) figures, not my guesses or SWAGS. However it does lend ammunition to the notion NONE of big three have identified another/other "PROFIT" flag ship, other than SUV's/PU's. So the whole idea of the bail outs is they have a plan to become PROFITABLE. All those small cars that you say are better, such as hybrids etc., etc., HAVE to have profits of 8-15k per vehicle !!! Even you know that is NOT the case. !!!!
Keep in mind the 12.5% SUV population took app 25-30 years to "grow" from less than 2% of the population . So over the time period the average yearly growth rate has been app .0035%-.0042 % per year.
So given your logic, reasoning and conclusions, there has never been a demand for....SUV's, aka proof positive??!!
If the public is demanding diesel in droves, I have not seen it.
Not a very solid argument. People are not demanding to have Pumelos in the produce section. Yet when we give people a sample they keep wanting more. My wife brought the seeds from Israel in 1990 and now the trees are large and very productive. Yet the only people that had heard of them 10 years ago were from the Middle East. Demand is only relative to knowledge. Most people have not driven a modern diesel car. If they had the option from a company like Toyota, I can guarantee they would pick the diesel over the hybrid more than 50% of the time.
Larsb, have you test driven the 2009 Jetta TDI? I think you would want to trash that TCH if you did. Great driving dynamics and performance with the ability to get 50 MPG. Nothing in the Hybrid field can match that. The Wagon has lots of room. Almost enough for me.
Technically you are correct when you say it is the car makers who have decided not to sell a good selection of diesel vehicles in the U.S. What you don't seem to understand or want to understand is the reason for this. Let me try to help:
Surely you have heard various business people complain about tax code changes from year to year. These changes make it very difficult to set a course of action and stick to it. It also interferes with their forecasting and business planning, etc.
All this mucking around with the tax code hurts business interests. Likewise, all the mucking around with rules and regs hurt all car makers and especially those wanting to produce diesels. You would think that the recent CO2 decision would be the last gasp at attempting to repel the diesel invasion but the next step will probably be increased taxes.
With all this in mind it really makes me think that the powers that be have absolutely no interest in decreasing oil use in the U.S. It appears to be just the opposite.
because they talk to their other diesel-loving friends who all say, "man I wish there were more diesel cars"
I rarely discuss cars outside of Edmund's. Most people in the USA are clueless as to what the rest of the World drives. You could ask 100 people on the street to name One diesel car sold in the USA and probably draw a blank on all of them. Heck they don't even know about any hybrid except the Prius because it is so goofy looking. I would say the demand is equal to the EU when given the option. My guess is VW will be selling 50% diesels within 2 more years. I would even downsize to the Tiguan with a 2.0L TDI. I sure would not consider one with a gas engine.
Yet, if you ask them to name one diesel TRUCK... Oh, wait - more than half of all trucks on the road *are* diesels. The thing is, though - they are all monstrous V8s.
the way to get diesel cars to be accepted in the U.S. is to bring in the smaller SUVs and trucks with the better Euro-spec engines in them. Then the lines blur. People can suddenly get 30mpg in their urban assault-tank.
Sales of SUVs which are the big profit maker go up as there's no dis-incentive to having a big vehicle. Sure, it's a tad slower, but nobody drives that fast around town anyways.
But first it has to start with the trucks. The pent-up demand is actually several million if you consider fleets, delivery companies, and commercial/job related use. And then there's the issue of cold weather. If you live in Alaska or anyplace where it gets below 0 in the winter, a diesel truck is all the locals want.
And Toyota makes the trucks in Europe right now. All it would take is a bit of emissions tweaking and... oh right - nothing else as the new Tacoma for 2009+ is over 99% identical other than the engine to the U.S. model. A few lights, a few minor badges and tweaks and so on...
Would work except that 95% of my driving is city driving. If I wanted to get less than 34 MPG, which is what I get in the TCH, I could buy a lot of other "fun to drive" cars for less than a Jetta TDI.
The TDI would be beneficial to me only for the two times a year I drive to Texas.
Hey, any Phoenix-based TDI owners willing to rent me their car for two weeks a year?
Plus. I done tolya that I'm waiting on a diesel electric hybrid that gets 60+ on the EPA test. That's about one of the rare few cars that might get me out of the TCH.
So you are admitting that what I said is correct - you speak only with a small circle of friends which includes a long list of diesel car fans, which leads you to believe demand is high, whereas with the general public it is almost nil.
A diesel engine for the Ford F-150 light-duty pickup is looking dicey.
Ford had said it would sell a diesel F-150 beginning in 2010. Last spring, dealers were shown a 4.4-liter V-8 diesel said to deliver more power and torque than the F-150's 5.4-liter gasoline V-8 and offer a 20 percent fuel savings.
With all this in mind it really makes me think that the powers that be have absolutely no interest in decreasing oil use in the U.S. It appears to be just the opposite.
You hit the nail on the head.
The Federal and State Governments do not want to reduce fuel consumption because if you do, you will cut their income due to lost tax revenue. The only reason they promote green cars is to put on a green face and all the time it has to be killing them knowing that that will take money from the coffers. The US auto makers are falling right in line with the (unofficial) party line by continuing to produce gas guzzlers. Lars, in case you missed it, last month I purchased a 2005 VW Beetle GLS TDI/diesel with 47,000 miles on it trading the old 1993 explorer. Sweet little ride, you would be impressed.
So, last Thursday we left Gig Harbor with just over half a tank of diesel and headed for Leavenworth, WA. We went over Snoqualmie Pass (3022ft) and Blewett Pass, (4102ft) and did some driving around the local area. The next day we left and returned via Stevens Pass (4062ft) (Hwy 2), Carnation, Fall City (203), I-90, Hwy 18, I-5, Hwy-16 to Gig Harbor. I did it all on a half tank, capacity, 13 gallons, so about 6 gallons. The MPG for that tank was 40.4 and I did not baby it.
That same trip in the Explorer I would have used about 18 gallons or more. 6 gallons of diesel ver. 18 gallons of gas. Need I say more?
you speak only with a small circle of friends which includes a long list of diesel car fans
If you are referring to my friends here at Edmund's, yourself included, the answer is yes. Most here would like to see more diesel cars and especially small diesel PU trucks. I cannot remember the last time I talked about cars at all with my friends and family. Not important to most of them. My neighbors that I visit with, on occasion, are either into high performance dune buggies or cars older than 1960. Though my one neighbor has a 99 VW Beetle TDI that he would not trade for anything but a new one. They have two PU trucks for towing toy haulers and a mini van. The Beetle is the one they use the most.
I love that color of green. You got the DSG also? I am jealous. That would be my perfect runabout. Maybe even cross country vehicle. Though I am always buying junk and seem to need lots of room.
Way too big. What a waste of money. The Domestics just don't get it. The BMW 6 cylinder 3.0L Diesel delivers more torque than the Ford 5.4L gas engine. They could get double the mileage with the right engine. The 3 liter BMW diesel has more torque than the big honkin 5.7 L from Toyota. If Toyota & Domestics cannot build a small diesel engine that will pass emissions they need to buy from the Germans. They have great diesel engines. Probably the major reason they do not offer them. That is a sad indictment of Ford engineering. Same goes for GM that dropped their diesel 1/2 ton.
Yes, it has the DSG and I love it. It is a little cramped with the dog crate, but I might look at a roof rack for long trips. It is really amazing how smooth that little car rides, but it weighs about 3800 lbs. I'll double check that figure when the wife gets home.
The Toyota I'm talking about is a 3.0L. 34mpg. But will we ever see that one? No - they seem to think that cars and truck need to go as fast as a 1980s Porsche or else they are crap. (928 was 6.5 seconds 0-60, for instance)
That is actually the same for me. I had to research it (google) as in the late 2002 time frame, I was literally clueless. Most friends really could care LESS about what I get for mpg, let alone why I chose a diesel. (or NOT). The diesel subject only comes up as a matter of conversation and ONLY because not many gassers get between 48-52 mpg. They are literally incredulous when they hear the answer to their (what do you get for) MPG questions.
If one puts less miles than the average driver (12,000- 15,000 miles per year) on a car and so called has made a decision to keep a car, it actually doesn't matter what mpg one actually gets.
Having two passenger car diesels, I would not go back to a gasser (passenger car). If I were to need/want a future SUV/PU, a TDI is the only option I would consider. It almost TOTALLY slips by 99% and above most folks that an MB/Dodge Sprinter that is bigger than the size of a 12 passenger van gets 25 mpg.
The system has demonstrated time and time again the real reasons for all this bru ha ha.; better air and lower consumption are only a fantasy dream/goal. Higher taxation per mile driven is the first and foremost goal; along with that, every increasing costs per mile driven.
If I had to swag, "tradesman" would be a HUGE pent up demand market for a OTHER THAN Ford/GM Dodge 250/2500 HUGE diesels (premiums of $5,000). The problem here of course is the system likes the rate of burn of this segment.
My guesses would be: 1. below $1,000 premium 2. below 475 # ft of torque: 350 to 450 # ft would wow the socks off that segment. 3. Bullet proof would be a HUGE plus. 4. 25-35 mpg? KILLER. and for those reasons and more.... NOT !!!...............
..."Engines for Europe include a range of four-cylinder TDI diesels, from 89 to 168 horsepower, including two new 2.0-liter units that deliver 109 hp and 138 hp, respectively. VW says the 109-hp variant returns fuel economy of up to 52 mpg."...
..."In the U.S., the current '09 Rabbit comes with a 170-hp 2.5-liter five-cylinder normally aspirated gasoline engine with a choice of five-speed manual or six-speed automatic transmission. EPA highway mileage is 29 mpg."...
Does anyone know of a European equivalent of the Ford Taurus with a diesel engine?
If I had a clue what a Ford Taurus looked like/size etc I'd be happy to give you some Euro diesel equivalents.
What size is it in, say, Audi terns ? A3, A4, A6, A8.............or ?
O.K., stopped being lazy and found out that your Taurus is classed as "Full Size", so I'm going with A6/A8 size. We don't have a lot of "Full Size" cars here in Europe so choice is a bit limited. However, all of the following have at least one diesel engine in the range.
Alfa Romeo 159
Audi A6
Audi A8
Citroen C6
BMW 5
BMW 7
Chrysler 300C (3.0 CRD)
Ford Mondeo
Jaguar XF
Jaguar XJ
Mercedes E
Mercedes S
Saab 9-5
Skoda Superb (Skoda is VW Group with better build quality & lower prices)
VW Phaeton
Volvo S80 (S60 now ceased building whilst "new, more radical" S60 is tooled).
That's about it. No Japanese or Koreans really fit the size bill and most of the above are nearer A6-size than larger..............but do you really need larger ? Sorry, none of my business.
I don't believe the oil companies want more diesel cars and SUVs. The available percentage of diesel is pretty much used in heavy transportation. And of course they are not going to look kindly on anything that cuts into oil sales, such as biodiesel. I think the oil companies like corn ethanol as it takes more fossil fuel to produce that you get net from using it in automobiles.
On the other hand there are those environmental types that would argue (approaching) $7-10 gal gas is the way to go. The reality is folks actually cut back on use when gasoline gets much over $2.00.
:sick: An artical in today's Automotive News notes that the current government has put the breaks on hydrogen fuel cell cares.Perhaps a good decision but what does it show us? If they have this power then they have had and still have the power to keep diesel power trains out of American, and have done that and continue to do it. For those of you whom believe that ther is no market for 30 MPG light trucks and 40 to 67 MPG cars in America regardless of the the fact that diesel cost is a dime more then RUG are buying the propaganda that has been around since 1978 when GM gave diesel the biggest black ever put on a product.
When I bought my 2003 TDI, the figures were of the whole passenger car fleet 3% were diesel. The majority of diesels were so called LIGHT trucks (actually the bigger than the 150/1500 series truck). FF to 2008/2009 the diesel passenger car fleet has dropped- 33.3%, i.e., the passenger diesel fleet@ 2%. Further the majority is even greater LIGHT trucks. (actually the bigger than the 150/1500 series truck).
You got it pegged right. Just two of the tactics used are keeping the emissions levels just enough higher than the EU to keep the best diesels from over there out. The other was inacted in the 1960s to protect GM and Ford. That was the Chicken Tax of 25% on all imported trucks. VW did build diesel PU trucks in PA during the last gas crisis. Not sure if the market evaporated when the oil started flowing again.
Just one month from the new model, of course sales are down. But then again, they are still way higher than TDI. In fact, the 8,385 Prius sold here in April is half that of VW's entire product-line here 16,289. Total hybrid Toyota/Lexus April sales here were 12,930.
When shown the actual numbers, the story is quite different.
Comments
And you guys "predicting" gas was coming down was merely Wishful Thinking.
Because none of the experts who do that for a living were predicting it.
Even a blind gas price predictor gets them right sometimes.
If the market was there to allow the carmakers to rack up a ton of money selling diesel cars, THEY WOULD DO IT !!!
The greed would overwhelm all the supposed "obstacles" my friend.
You Know That Is True.
Why would they? There really was no choice for a diesel car in most markets. Remember it was the automakers that made the decision not to offer diesels. Not the consumer. You can spin it anyway you like. Until there are diesel choices the truth will not be revealed. VW has yet to overcome the reliability issues of the past. So there are NO choices for the average American consumer.
We will have to disagree because you are WRONG!
Wrong again bucko. Soros made about a $billion last year shorting oil futures. We do not know who else as most will not brag like he did.
So your position is this:
"Although there is a HUGE diesel demand and HUGE profit to be made selling diesel cars, automakers are NOT INTERESTED in that HUGE pile of money because it might mean spending $1000 per vehicle to have clean emissions"
Is that your stance?
You know we were all following the news and predictions on oil prices, and when they suddenly started falling, it surprised EVERYONE.
J.D. Power, who is an authority on market research, says that diesel will only hit about 10-12% of the market by 2015.
That's not a "huge" demand by any stretch.
I don't think anyone believes that hybrids will reach 10% by then. And they are much more costly to build than diesel cars.
automakers are NOT INTERESTED in that HUGE pile of money because it might mean spending $1000 per vehicle to have clean emissions"
That is not my position. My position is the Government puts roadblocks the automakers do not want to deal with. Diesel Emissions is a moving target depending on which state you are dealing with. I don't know if they will make huge profits. I know they are losing huge amounts of money right now, due to poor planning. They had ample warning since the 1970s to get decent mileage cars and trucks. They opted for 0-60 ratings so they would get good write-ups in the auto mags.
it surprised EVERYONE.
Not me and a few others.
Good guess. But no one should be chastised for NOT making that guess.
That's a valid point, but you gotta preface that by saying the other true part of it:
"The were building the cars that the public wanted to buy."
If the public is demanding diesel in droves, I have not seen it.
Googling "diesel car demand" and "USA" in Google News gives 0 hits.
Googling "demand for diesel cars" usa in Google News gives 2 hits, neither of which is a story about demand for diesel cars in the USA.
Look, Gary: I can COMPLETELY understand how pro-diesel folks can mistakenly think the demand is high because they talk to their other diesel-loving friends who all say, "man I wish there were more diesel cars" and that's the sample they use to form their opinion.
But overall, almost 95% of the cars in this country are not diesel cars.
If a huge number of that 95% of buyers not driving diesel cars WANTS diesel cars, they SURE are quiet about it. They are hiding from JD Power and from every other market research company out there.
That is about the current population of SUV's (2.54.2M passenger vehicles *10/12%=)
25.42 M- 30.5 M.
Then do that count again in Texas. LOL
So given your logic, reasoning and conclusions, there has never been a demand for....SUV's, aka proof positive??!!
Not a very solid argument. People are not demanding to have Pumelos in the produce section. Yet when we give people a sample they keep wanting more. My wife brought the seeds from Israel in 1990 and now the trees are large and very productive. Yet the only people that had heard of them 10 years ago were from the Middle East. Demand is only relative to knowledge. Most people have not driven a modern diesel car. If they had the option from a company like Toyota, I can guarantee they would pick the diesel over the hybrid more than 50% of the time.
Larsb, have you test driven the 2009 Jetta TDI? I think you would want to trash that TCH if you did. Great driving dynamics and performance with the ability to get 50 MPG. Nothing in the Hybrid field can match that. The Wagon has lots of room. Almost enough for me.
Surely you have heard various business people complain about tax code changes from year to year. These changes make it very difficult to set a course of action and stick to it. It also interferes with their forecasting and business planning, etc.
All this mucking around with the tax code hurts business interests. Likewise, all the mucking around with rules and regs hurt all car makers and especially those wanting to produce diesels. You would think that the recent CO2 decision would be the last gasp at attempting to repel the diesel invasion but the next step will probably be increased taxes.
With all this in mind it really makes me think that the powers that be have absolutely no interest in decreasing oil use in the U.S. It appears to be just the opposite.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I rarely discuss cars outside of Edmund's. Most people in the USA are clueless as to what the rest of the World drives. You could ask 100 people on the street to name One diesel car sold in the USA and probably draw a blank on all of them. Heck they don't even know about any hybrid except the Prius because it is so goofy looking. I would say the demand is equal to the EU when given the option. My guess is VW will be selling 50% diesels within 2 more years. I would even downsize to the Tiguan with a 2.0L TDI. I sure would not consider one with a gas engine.
the way to get diesel cars to be accepted in the U.S. is to bring in the smaller SUVs and trucks with the better Euro-spec engines in them. Then the lines blur. People can suddenly get 30mpg in their urban assault-tank.
Sales of SUVs which are the big profit maker go up as there's no dis-incentive to having a big vehicle. Sure, it's a tad slower, but nobody drives that fast around town anyways.
But first it has to start with the trucks. The pent-up demand is actually several million if you consider fleets, delivery companies, and commercial/job related use. And then there's the issue of cold weather. If you live in Alaska or anyplace where it gets below 0 in the winter, a diesel truck is all the locals want.
And Toyota makes the trucks in Europe right now. All it would take is a bit of emissions tweaking and... oh right - nothing else as the new Tacoma for 2009+ is over 99% identical other than the engine to the U.S. model. A few lights, a few minor badges and tweaks and so on...
The TDI would be beneficial to me only for the two times a year I drive to Texas.
Hey, any Phoenix-based TDI owners willing to rent me their car for two weeks a year?
Plus. I done tolya that I'm waiting on a diesel electric hybrid that gets 60+ on the EPA test. That's about one of the rare few cars that might get me out of the TCH.
Thanks !!!
Ford had said it would sell a diesel F-150 beginning in 2010. Last spring, dealers were shown a 4.4-liter V-8 diesel said to deliver more power and torque than the F-150's 5.4-liter gasoline V-8 and offer a 20 percent fuel savings.
Ford delays diesel for F-150
You hit the nail on the head.
The Federal and State Governments do not want to reduce fuel consumption because if you do, you will cut their income due to lost tax revenue.
The only reason they promote green cars is to put on a green face and all the time it has to be killing them knowing that that will take money from the coffers.
The US auto makers are falling right in line with the (unofficial) party line by continuing to produce gas guzzlers.
Lars, in case you missed it, last month I purchased a 2005 VW Beetle GLS TDI/diesel with 47,000 miles on it trading the old 1993 explorer. Sweet little ride, you would be impressed.
So, last Thursday we left Gig Harbor with just over half a tank of diesel and headed for Leavenworth, WA. We went over Snoqualmie Pass (3022ft) and Blewett Pass, (4102ft) and did some driving around the local area. The next day we left and returned via Stevens Pass (4062ft) (Hwy 2), Carnation, Fall City (203), I-90, Hwy 18, I-5, Hwy-16 to Gig Harbor. I did it all on a half tank, capacity, 13 gallons, so about 6 gallons. The MPG for that tank was 40.4 and I did not baby it.
That same trip in the Explorer I would have used about 18 gallons or more.
6 gallons of diesel ver. 18 gallons of gas. Need I say more?
You can see the car and trip pics here.
http://newbeetle.org/forums/photos-new-beetles/35045-new-us-2005-a.html
If you are referring to my friends here at Edmund's, yourself included, the answer is yes. Most here would like to see more diesel cars and especially small diesel PU trucks. I cannot remember the last time I talked about cars at all with my friends and family. Not important to most of them. My neighbors that I visit with, on occasion, are either into high performance dune buggies or cars older than 1960. Though my one neighbor has a 99 VW Beetle TDI that he would not trade for anything but a new one. They have two PU trucks for towing toy haulers and a mini van. The Beetle is the one they use the most.
If one puts less miles than the average driver (12,000- 15,000 miles per year) on a car and so called has made a decision to keep a car, it actually doesn't matter what mpg one actually gets.
Having two passenger car diesels, I would not go back to a gasser (passenger car). If I were to need/want a future SUV/PU, a TDI is the only option I would consider. It almost TOTALLY slips by 99% and above most folks that an MB/Dodge Sprinter that is bigger than the size of a 12 passenger van gets 25 mpg.
The system has demonstrated time and time again the real reasons for all this bru ha ha.; better air and lower consumption are only a fantasy dream/goal. Higher taxation per mile driven is the first and foremost goal; along with that, every increasing costs per mile driven.
If I had to swag, "tradesman" would be a HUGE pent up demand market for a OTHER THAN Ford/GM Dodge 250/2500 HUGE diesels (premiums of $5,000). The problem here of course is the system likes the rate of burn of this segment.
My guesses would be:
1. below $1,000 premium
2. below 475 # ft of torque: 350 to 450 # ft would wow the socks off that segment. 3. Bullet proof would be a HUGE plus.
4. 25-35 mpg? KILLER.
and for those reasons and more.... NOT !!!...............
..."In the U.S., the current '09 Rabbit comes with a 170-hp 2.5-liter five-cylinder normally aspirated gasoline engine with a choice of five-speed manual or six-speed automatic transmission. EPA highway mileage is 29 mpg."...
link title
So which is better? 52 mpg? 29 mpg? EPA and most of America chooses.... 29 mpg !!?? Why chose 79.3% better mpg when 29 mpg will do just fine!?
If I had a clue what a Ford Taurus looked like/size etc I'd be happy to give you some Euro diesel equivalents.
What size is it in, say, Audi terns ? A3, A4, A6, A8.............or ?
If I had a clue what a Ford Taurus looked like/size etc I'd be happy to give you some Euro diesel equivalents.
What size is it in, say, Audi terns ? A3, A4, A6, A8.............or ?
O.K., stopped being lazy and found out that your Taurus is classed as "Full Size", so I'm going with A6/A8 size. We don't have a lot of "Full Size" cars here in Europe so choice is a bit limited. However, all of the following have at least one diesel engine in the range.
Alfa Romeo 159
Audi A6
Audi A8
Citroen C6
BMW 5
BMW 7
Chrysler 300C (3.0 CRD)
Ford Mondeo
Jaguar XF
Jaguar XJ
Mercedes E
Mercedes S
Saab 9-5
Skoda Superb (Skoda is VW Group with better build quality & lower prices)
VW Phaeton
Volvo S80 (S60 now ceased building whilst "new, more radical" S60 is tooled).
That's about it. No Japanese or Koreans really fit the size bill and most of the above are nearer A6-size than larger..............but do you really need larger ? Sorry, none of my business.
Surprised everyone except the oil industry, who repeatedly testified before Congress last summer that it was an anomaly. They were correct.
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
OBAMA seeks to invest more in biofuels...link title
A (CA my sic) snag for biodiesel
link title
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I don't believe the oil companies want more diesel cars and SUVs. The available percentage of diesel is pretty much used in heavy transportation. And of course they are not going to look kindly on anything that cuts into oil sales, such as biodiesel. I think the oil companies like corn ethanol as it takes more fossil fuel to produce that you get net from using it in automobiles.
Just not many knew WHEN it would correct itself.
If they have this power then they have had and still have the power to keep diesel power trains out of American, and have done that and continue to do it.
For those of you whom believe that ther is no market for 30 MPG light trucks and 40 to 67 MPG cars in America regardless of the the fact that diesel cost is a dime more then RUG are buying the propaganda that has been around since 1978 when GM gave diesel the biggest black ever put on a product.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Greenwashing spin.
Just one month from the new model, of course sales are down. But then again, they are still way higher than TDI. In fact, the 8,385 Prius sold here in April is half that of VW's entire product-line here 16,289. Total hybrid Toyota/Lexus April sales here were 12,930.
When shown the actual numbers, the story is quite different.
link title
link title
link title