Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
That's all.
Engine, transmision and tow specs: A high-torque, 2.2-liter four-cylinder engine and six-speed automatic transmission that’s expected to be rated at least 30 mpg on the highway (unloaded) and be able to haul up to 2,700 pounds and tow up to 5,000 pounds. AND if it can be had for low-$20,000s?
I have a Ford F150 that gets 17 MPG, and need a family car for economical daily and road trips. This would solves my dilemma of needing two vehicles. What's your opinion - worth the wait till Dec 2009?
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
The compact truck segment will be expanding just a tad as Indian auto manufacturer Mahindra & Mahindra will have its compact diesel pickups available in the U.S. by late 2009. Despite earlier reports that Mahindra's U.S. introduction had been postponed until 2010, Global Vehicles USA CEO John Perez affirmed the Indian trucks would be in dealers by this year. GV USA is the Georgia-based auto import company responsible for bringing upcoming Mahindra vehicles into the U.S.
The Mahindra pickups will be the first mass Indian-made vehicles to debut in the U.S. A two-door standard cab and four-door crew cab will be available, with both trucks being powered by a slightly modified version of Mahindra's "mHawk" 2.2L I-4 diesel engine. To correspond with the cab configurations, the trucks' names are likely to be TR20 and TR40. Fuel economy is expected to rate as high as 30 mpg, and a 1.3-ton hauling capability is offered. Pricing information for the pickups is expected in September, and a diesel hybrid version of the Mahindra truck is reportedly in the works, but is being held up for the time being.
small diesel PU truck
Been about 25 years since we were offered a small diesel PU truck. It will be welcomed with open arms.
I think this is the new review by PUTrucks.com. The author raises some good points about the comparison to VW TDI, but the biggest risk is the quality of the first couple thousands that arrive.
General Motors Co. might revive the Chevrolet Caprice name as a way to save the outgoing Pontiac G8 sedan, and will not consider diesel cars for the United States until the business case improves.
Lutz also said that the company had shelved any plans for diesel-engined passenger vehicles in the United States due to the extra cost he estimated at $6,000 for emissions controls, despite a 20% boost in fuel economy.
“Several Europeans and both Toyota and Honda have canceled their U.S. passenger car diesel plans, as have we,” Lutz wrote. -end
Don't like what the message even if it is exactly what I expected.
I was very enthusiastic about the 4.5L Duramax that was to be manufactured in Towanda, NY and available no later than 2010 MY trucks. Darn shame that this project was placed on the shelf for lack of funds. Hope it is resurrected.
Diesel #2: 2.339
E85: 2.359
RUG: 2.459
Everything else past 2.609.
I guess one of the bosses has spoken.
I would guess the diesel would top the gasser in just about every instance they are offered. Could be why in the EU diesel cars are now at 70% of new car sales. You can see why the Feds want to keep US in the dark when it comes to diesel vehicles. I thought the writer had a good handle on the cars we are sold from Japan.
You'd never mistake the Mazda6 for anything other than a Japanese car. That said, of all the Oriental midsizers it's the one that most closely resembles its competition from the Continent... And not just because it's available with an excellent turbodiesel drivetrain.
Where its archrival, the Honda Accord Euro, has a dash that's all buttons and knobs (in the best tradition of Japanese household appliances) and Toyota's Camry presents a swathe of metalised plastic, the 6 has a considerably more resolved interior. The dash itself is simple rendered and there's been remarkable restraint used in the design of the controls and combating the proliferation of lights and buzzers.
The Volkswagen Jetta TDI (pictured) took the trophy with a five year cost savings of $6,210 over the gas-burning Jetta and an MSRP premium difference of $2,070.
Now, tell us something we don't already know.
2009 Jetta, 24 mpg, RUG @$ 2.83 = .1179 cents (per mile driven)
2009 Jetta, 24 mpg, PUG @$ 3.03 = .1263 cents
2009 Jetta TDI (I get 42.5 mpg), D2 @ $ 2.71=.06376 cents (per mile driven)
RUG = 85% more than D2 (per mile driven)
PUG = 98% more than D2
Burning 76% more is MUCH better for the environment!!??
Now if you had (i.e.,) a like model Prius DIESEL hybrid, in theory it would be the analogous (similar/the same) !!
..."The State of California recognized the benefit of reducing sulfur in gasoline on the emission control of existing vehicles and the need for low sulfur fuel to optimize the performance of new vehicles designed to meet the stringent LEV Program Standards. As a result, California, in establishing its Phase 2 reformulated gasoline requirements, set an averaging unit of 30 ppm and acap of 80 ppm sulfur in gasoline."...
The so called CLEAN RUG to PUG 30 ppm to 80 ppm) is 2 x's, up to 16 x's dirtier than ULSD (15 ppm to 5 ppm . !!!! link title
Boy were we mis informed !!!
As previously posted, the use of GDI will require a max of 30 ppm (unleaded gas) and lower to keep emissions control equipment damage to a minimum. This of course would dramatically increase the capital investments for both equipment AND cost per gal of RUG to PUG !!! It is looking like in the preliminary research the GDI (major benefit is better fuel mileage) a DPF LIKE system for gassers . It will probably be the similar cost !!!! :sick:
It is amazing the link is titled in "plain" English.
So importers and refiners can actually use "CREDITS" to "satisfy the INTENT of a 90 ppm to 30 ppm gasoline sulfur "compliance". So how many consumers really "KNOW" what their particular bought gasoline REALLY IS !!?? (aka, is it INDEED 90 ppm ? and ONLY "credited" down to 30 ppm !!??
The 90 ppm (credited" to 30 ppm is telling as compared to the ULSD of 15 to 5 ppm. The RANGE of allowed sulfur ppm is GREATER than what ULSD is mandated to BE !!?? So again the "reality" makes gasoline up to 18 x dirtier (90 ppm/5) than ULSD !!!???
For all the vilification D2 has received, hardly anyone has questioned the higher sulfur ppm of unleaded gasoline !!??
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/07/68494450/1
What, no comment on the new diesel pickup! Somebody is falling down on the job. I know it is not a VW Jetta TDI, but is likely to be a bit more groundbreaking.
Mahindra, those folks make tractors......I wonder, will John Deere or Case be next with a diesel pickup??? Ya know, it sort of makes sense...buy all your farm vehicles under one roof.
I also find it odd that they don't seem to be worried about meeting the emissions requirements.
We were waitng for someone like... U... to to finally step up and admit the 50 state legal gig is (a bunch of hoey) (wizard of oz) , especially when an "upstart" Indian "third" world manufacturer can EASILY comply with the standards !!??... My guess is urea also !!?? It would be a SMASH @ LOW $20,000's or so and with 36 mpg (real world) !! I understand in passing , 150 or so hp and 300# ft of torque !!?? Clean em and fry em, ah huh !!! This might be Gagrice's cup of tea.
By the picture, it is ugly enough to catch on !!
Or more PC: its distinctive styling cues are sure to garner a loyal market following !!! With 36 (2016 35.5 mpg standard) , simply smashing! (In my best British accent) :shades:
They might totally surprise folks by bringing even faster product and quality improvements than certainly the Japanese; of late, even the South Koreans !!
Now a real sleeper would be a Cummins turbo diesel, 6 spd manual (tremec 6066) in a... Buick...... 35-45 mpg !!?? Yes Sir ree !!
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef579bb/7788#MSG7788
I'm not sure they are "third" world anymore. The proof will be in the execution of the product.
Trying to sell 60,000 in North America might be a stretch. I would consider them a success if the sell 1,000 a month.
Just the Jetta TDI model is selling 40% in June 09 @3,372 units. Arguably the (small) PU truck market is far broader and deeper. So 60,000 units would be 5,000 units per month (purely a swag on my part, I have NO inside information) .
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The dark horse of fossil fuels has cleaned up its act, allowing automakers to create cars for the U.S. that are ultraefficient and high-performance. Here comes the 75-mpg revolution.
Notice how many of the "diesel" models years and oems (67%) did NOT make the anticipated MY roll out.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If the truck is successful, it could push other manufacturers into offering a compact diesel. I am thinking that Toyota should be offering a diesel engine in the Tacoma. This may force their hand. You know the old expression: " Monkey see, monkey do".
To address the old expression. VW has been marketing and selling (cars) US diesels for a LONG time (of late, going on a decade) and that hasn't forced anyone's hand. But then again, I am glad you agree with me and acknowledge the compact truck segment is both broader and deeper and might have different dynamics. There to me is absolutely no brainer room for diesel compact light trucks.
My longer take has been, how can anybody needing/wanting a "truck" NOT seriously consider and a large percentage buying a diesel truck.???
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=839469
I would agree. Ford would have been wise to add a diesel to the Ranger. The truck is just so-so. Adding a diesel engine would have boosted the mpg into the high 20s or maybe low 30s on the highway. The same holds true for the Tacoma....
A Google search on Tacoma diesel conversion turned up some interesting sites. A search for a 2010 Tacoma diesel did not turn up much - just rumors, no news..
link title
I, for one have been a long time admirer of Honda (1982). They take mediocre quality and turn it into perceived higher reliability, and actually make cars folks want to buy. !! They also wear the American archetype very well !!! UNDER DAWG. Not only that, American Honda is really an AMERICAN Company !!??
As a side bar: If VW could take their HIGH quality and turn it into perceived higher reliability; they would blow almost everyone else out of the water !!?? They certainly make cars folks want to buy. The durability is of course legendary. Of course that is in the context of VW being the #2/3 largest auto oem in the world.
However, THE anomolies:
1. (your quoted) the Ridgeline, a gasser no less?
2. Civic GX (nat gas) @ if I remember correctly 3,000 to 4,000 for the current model year)
3.the Civic Hybrid (acknowledged to be a bust, even by...Honda).
My take on why Honda does not do diesel models (they of course do cite the costs, developmental and otherwise and not being worth the effort)
1. incur the wrath of the US regulatory gods, which THEN would be tantamont to hari kari
2. turbo diesel would totally make their GASSER "economy king/queen "status in second place and probably worse by their own hand
3. they are literally struggling in the European market; where upwards of 50% of the passenger vehicle fleet is diesel, with (I have read app 70% of current MY sales being diesel) .
So why spread the pain to the Honda US market??
It does all of that. This is effectively a huge slap up side the head for Toyota.
I am just hoping that there are no last minute regulation changes in the U.S. to try and scuttle the Mahindra plans. It certainly would not surprise me.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
..."Lutz did add, in his most recent post: "In no way does this mean we are backing away from performance, or backing away from rear-wheel drive. Look no further for proof than the Corvette, the Camaro, the CTS or many other present and future Cadillacs. We have a strong lineup of RWD vehicles already and we will continue to have it.""...
Let me ask some questions
1. does this mean they will drop the light truck segment
2. or the Corvette, Camaro, CTS, etc.
since the 2016 standards are now 35.5 mpg
3. or will all the above be @ 35.5 mpg?
4. So items #2/#3 do meet the burn more is "actually" less is better policy while professing to burn... less !!
So yes any car that they do not build that actually meets that (2016) standard or its defacto standards will probably be an embarrassment.
http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn
You might find some interesting diesel news like this:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/07/17/470252.html
or this
http://www.gearlog.com/2009/07/bmw_may_bring_four-cylinder_en.php
or this
http://www.live-pr.com/en/new-report-just-published-world-diesel-r1048299849.htm- -
or this
Toyota Reiterates Diesel Engine Project With Isuzu “Frozen”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=agiDEB45eTVc
“Audi’s modern turbo-diesel technology is highly efficient, smooth and quiet. It carries none of the negatives of old diesel engines – only the positives.
“As a result, our diesel (TDI) share has increased from 3% in 2004 to 36% at June 2009 YTD – or 2,030 TDI vehicles in just 6 months – this is incredible growth. Compared with our sales growth, which has tripled in the same period (since 2004), our TDI share has jumped by 1,100%.
“There are certainly other strong and efficient technologies available for customers – including hybrid technology – however we believe that we can achieve more fuel-savings with our current line-up of TDI models – it is the best technology available for Australian driving conditions,” Mr Hofmann said.
So here are some ifs and swags.
IF the 2009 MY sales are 9.6 M and IF VW sells 30% of their entire (projected) MY production (225,000 units) THEN one of the major diesel vendors will have a MY growth rate of .007 %. (less than 1%)
Honda have announced they are to sell the Accord Saloon and Tourer with the uprated 2.2 i-DTEC diesel engine. This revised engine gives 177bhp/280lbft and puts out just 154gm/km of the dreaded CO2. Cars will be badged as "Type S" and be fairly high spec. No word on economy at this stage but numbers may well be on the U.K. website.
Sounds like a nice combination and may tempt buyers from Audi/VW/Ford/Vauxhall-Opel/Volvo etc.
This is the diesel TSX that was supposed to have been sold in the U.S. starting this year. I figured I could trade my gas TSX in on one in a year or two and all would be well.
Not gonna happen, though, at least not here.
Sad.
Given Toyota Camry & Honda Accord's very wide spread popularity and acceptance in the US market (some would say they are THE ubiquitious American family sedans) this (diesel) would appear (to me anyway) to be total no brainer.
I would think it bears mentioning what a difference 119 MORE # ft of torque (74% MORE) makes over the standard Camry/Accord !!!!! This also forces upgrades to the transmissions, suspensions, and brakings subsystems.
While the gasser versions do a very good C 25 mpg, what is not to like about C 40 mpg?
(my swag here and my bad if it is indeed less. I will take the wet noodle flogging up front)
This is based on a 236# ft of torque 2.0 TDI which gets 39-45 on break in.
Aint it grand to be able to beat the 2016 35.5 mpg standards 6 to 12 YEARS early?
The corollary might be there is something wrong with getting 60% better fuel mileage...NOW !!!
Honda needs to call it quits with their failed hybrid program and concentrate on the future, Diesel and hopefully biodiesels.