What about visibility to the rear and side in traffic? I'd hate to parallel park one.
You called both issues correctly. When you're in the GT it looks like you need the entire street (your lane and the oncoming lane) to not scrape it's sides on parked cars. And parallel parking is a nightmare. I'm slowing getting used to it (commuted for the last two days, have 250 miles on the odo), but I'm just starting to semi-relax when driving it.
I had my wife spot for me the first time it went in the garage because I was convinced it wouldn't fit. She's like, "Karl, the GTX fit in here, and that things huge. Why wouldn't you think this can fit?" Logic suggested she was right, but sitting in the GT it feels as wide as an aircraft carrier. Of course she was right.
I've now realized the width is an optical illusion. It's not that the car is actually wide, but that it's sooooo low and it's still kinda wide. That low roof, combined with a width about the size of my GTX (which is pretty wide by today's standards) translates into a car that looks like a hunkered down Sumo wrestler (only with better curves :P ).
The tach hasn't seen above 3,500 rpm yet. I'm going to be very obessive about the break-in on this one. That means constant rpm variation, and only going up to 3,500 rpm for the first 500 miles, then slowing going up (about 500 rpm increments) as the odo goes from 500 to 2,000 miles. At 2,000, let 'er rip!
Yup, pretty geeky. I know that most cars really don't need a careful break-in because of the tight tolerances that engines are built with today (versus the cars of 20 or 30 years ago). But I keep telling myself that, if there's a car that deserves obsessive/compulsive break-in treatment, this is it.
The bizarre part is that, even with only idle-to-3,500 rpm as my operating zone, I'm still able to basically do whatever I want on public roads. Pass that car? Jump into that open space in the fast lane? Speed away from the other traffic when the light turns green? It's all child's play.
I tend to be pretty cautious with exotic press cars, so I only barely dipped into the GT's full power when I drove the press cars last year. Now I'm not dipping into my own GT's real power at all, because of my break-in procedure. I have to keep reminding myself that this car is FAST, one of the fastest cars ever made. The way I'm driving it, it still seems FAST, and I'm not even scratching the surface.
So, I'd been telling myself that it was "OK" that I didn't have my GT yet, because I hadn't seen any others on the road, either. Considering where I live, and my commute, I found this quite weird. A few of my co-workers had claimed to have seen one here or there, but regardless, I hadn't seen another GT driving around so that helped keep my impatience about getting mine in check (remember, I started chasing this car in February of 2002, immediately after Ford announced its production). I know that several hundred have been delivered, and working on the west side of L.A. and driving PCH daily certainly puts me in prime "GT sighting" geography.
Well, I picked mine up Tuesday afternoon. And this afternoon on my way home (48 hours later) I saw a red Ford GT going south on PCH as I was going north.
Wow, that was close...
Happy to hear of any other GT sightings out there. I'm just trying to get a feel for how "rare" it is for people to see this car (from the reaction I'm getting, you'd think I was driving the original George Barris Batmobile).
Yes, I've already read the Pontiac Torrent and Jeep Commander reviews. The Torrent seems nice but ulimately there's no getting around the fact that is just an Equinox. The Commander is nice, but I think some overlapping is going to happen between it and the Grand Cherokee. Both are the same price, why not spring for something bigger and roomier? Of course this reasoning only works for people who like the Commander's boxy styling. In any case, the Commander seems a little short on cargo room compared to the Trailblazer/Explorer/Pilot.
I do appreciate you taking time to answer each vehicles. It looks we're going to have a flood of reviews coming in the next two months!
What exactly is an embargo? Does it mean that it is illegal for you to post a Fusion/Milan story before Sept. 1?
I'd encourage you to play Forza Motorsport. It's one of the best car games ever made, and I've played a lot (NFSHP2, NFSU, NFSU2, Midtown Madness 3, PGR2). The game doesn't have a story, but I've yet to find a more realistic game with such stunning graphics, and 231 cars!! Wow! Can't wait for the new Xbox360 and PGR3!!
It seems that in many cases, Edmunds records slower acceleration times - 0-60 ... than many of the mags such as Motor Trend. Why is this? Do you guys go easier on the vehicles, where the mags beat the crap out of them?
How about including 5-60 mph times in full tests? I would think for most vehicles everyone would have pretty close to the same results for such a test. Just a suggestion.
One more thing - whenever Edmunds tests an exotic, such as a Ferrari, it seems that you do the story. Don't you let other staff members have any fun?
We saw one a couple of weeks ago here in suburban Atlanta. It was red or blue. Gosh ... I can't believe I don't remember. Pretty sure it was blue with white stripes? I had to concentrate on driving. My husband was ogling it so he could probably tell us for sure.
I know there is an embargo on the new Civic until September first but are you allowed to say if it's a major improvement over it's predecessor?
Hmmm....must be more and more on the road now. I spotted a beautiful yellow one with black stripes two weeks ago in rural south Texas. Last place I would have expected to run across a GT. The first thing I thought when I saw the car was 'Karl, you lucky s.o.b." :P
And, I saw one being unloaded off a transporter at a local dealer a month ago (black with silver stripes, kind of an odd combo IMO but looked ok).
The 'embargo' is simply an agreement that the press has to not release info on new cars until a date set by the manufacturer. I don't think that there is anything binding about the agreement, however, I would imagine that should a media outlet violate the embargo, they may find themselves not invited back to preview cars in the future. Manufacturer's have reasons to set dates for the release of information and they take a dim view of journalists who violate the agreement.
only a week to go until we can get official info on the Civic. I've already tracked down all of the pictures, reviews, etc up to this point but I would like to know from a professional's point of view if they think the Civic will be a hit.
There is a non-striped jet black GT that seems to lurk around Magnolia Blvd. in Burbank. Just stay on the west side and you shouldn't have any major run-ins.
Also, GT4 is very cool. I can never get sick of driving anything (even a Ford GT) around Laguna Seca or the Nurburgring.
since i am not bound by any 'embargo', i did see on another site that the new civic engine(1.8 liter?) is supposed to deliver the power of a 2.0 liter engine, and the economy of a 1.5 liter. something termed i-vtec. karl, if you want to give your opinion on someone who 'cheaped out' on the 5k stripes on the 'GT', then respond to this post. your 'GT' does have the stripes as i remember?
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Yes, mine has the full stripe kit. My Ford contact told me over a year ago that he thought the stripes were crucial, as they give the car a real distinction as it goes down the road (otherwise it doesn't have enough "contrast" and the dramatic lines, especially on the front end, get lost).
I still agree with him for the most part, but when I was at the plant doing my Ford GT Build story (should go live next week, BTW), I saw GT's of just about every color and stripe combination. I have to admit that the non-stripe cars looked better than I thought. However, this is contingent on them having NO stripes. The stripe over the top is a $5,300 option, but the lower side stripes are standard (though you can "delete" them for no charge). Very often you see ones advertised as "no stripes" but they still have the standard, lower side stripe.
After seeing so many GT's at the plant, I've decided that it's either ALL stripes, or NO stripes. The ones with the side stripes, but not the top stripe, look goofy to me. Also, the red ones with NO stripes look fine, but sort-of Ferrari wannabe, IMHO.
Do you know if the one in Burbank has NO stripes, or is it just missing the top stripe and still has the side ones? I saw some all black, NO stripe cars at the plant, and they looked pretty sweet. I saw a white one like that, too, and was surprised at how cool it looked (but the black was still better).
i'd like to help you out with the skinny on that GT in Burbank, but there's no Burbank, CT. the thing about the stripes is that the next owner, i know it tough to think that way, is going to want the stripes. sort of like buying a car without a/c or with it. my mental picture of you, after driving the GT, is of either dan akaroyd or chevy chase (take your pick) in the movie 'spies like us' after their centrifuge ride.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
It seems that many manufacturers have embargo dates for new vehicle information. For my example I am going to use the new 2006 Civic. From what I understand the embargo date is 9-1-05. As such, come Sept. 1rst, the net will be full of info. While at the local Barnes and Noble today, I noticed that the new issue of Speed magazine has a first drive article on the 06 Civic Si. From what I can tell they are the first media outlet to have a review - days before the embargo date.
Not real sure what my question is, just thought it is interesting.
Embargo - I guess they have to time it...maybe Speed got an exclusive by promising a few covers to Honda. I believe that is standard industry practice.
"2. Is it worth $5 - 10K over sticker (many Pontiac dealers believe it is) ?"
Would these be the same Pontiac dealers asking $5 - 10k over sticker for the '04 GTO?
"3. Is this one car GM's critical turning point (get it right, they prosper, get it wrong, they founder)?"
No and no. What GM need's to get 'right' (and there are probably as many different definitions for what is 'right' as there are lurkers in here) are their bread and butter cars. They got the Corvette 'right' but I don't think it helps GM (as a whole) to prosper. Now, if they get the Solstice 'right' and then applied that to their mainstream offerings, then it's a new ballgame.....
"4. How "recall proof" might this car be ?"
About as 'recall proof' as ANY car in it's first year of production......
This is strictly a halo car for Pontiac. I dont believe in halo cars, but it does seem to work in some cases, the S2000 for example. People like the idea that the same company who makes their dull civic also makes the S2000. I don't know if it helps sales, but it does make people not embarrassed to own that brand. The Solstice doesnt mean a lot in terms of sales, but it will get GM a lot of good press and draw some people into Pontiac showrooms who wouldnt otherwise be there. I think it was a good move because there isnt a lot of competiton in this segment and they are doing something that Toyota/Honda/Nissan aren't doing. Honestly, I think the Sky looks better inside and out and has the potential to be even better. Now of course we have to bear the insufferable comments of the press along the lines of "why cant every GM car be as great as this" as if the Solstice has much in common with a bread and butter family sedan or SUV.
"People like the idea that the same company who makes their dull civic also makes the S2000."
Ah.
In other words, before the S2000 all those Honda fans just had to suffer in silence? I suppose that's why I was hanging my head in shame in '84 and again in '86 with a couple of CRX's which regularly ran circles around Fiero's at autocrosses and on the street. Sure wish Honda had a 'halo' car then......
"I think it was a good move because there isnt a lot of competiton in this segment and they are doing something that Toyota/Honda/Nissan aren't doing."
Of course, the competition that IS in this segment (Miata at the low end and S2000 on the high end) are both very, very good. And established.
Actually, I like the interior of the Sky better than the Solstice; but I like the exterior of the Solstice better.
The important thing will be whether or not GM passes down some of the Solstice/Sky's good things to its other cars. Mostly I mean styling and steering, two things which Pontiacs and Saturns are not really blessed with. Saturn has a styling plan, though the Sky is a product of it rather than the other way around (which is fine) - but the Solstice needs to affect Pontiac, or it'll be as useful as the Corvette.
With well tuned steering trickling down to other Pontiacs, they could go head to head with Mazda. It'll be a little sad though, if the Miata gets beaten in sales by a car that's not really better, just because it's a Pontiac.
Intersting that you would put the Freestyle in as a wagon and the Pacifica in as a mid sized SUV. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just find it interesting.
The Freestyle and the Pacifica are always being compared to each other so one would think they should be in the same category.
I also saw a comparison between the Freestyle and the Tribeca and the Freestyle beat the Tribeca in a bunch of categories (a couple of them being cargo volume and 0-60 times)
I almost wonder if there should be another tier for wagons to handle this new breed of crossover wagon/SUV.
That's a bit of a lame duck, since Ford already announced it will be discontinued. It look great on paper, but it's just not selling well even with steep discounts.
Ford's Fairlane looks a whole bunch more interesting.
C/D just did a quick comparison of the two in their October issue ... can't remember the specifics, but they felt the Solstice was, overall, a better car.
I agree with 1487 that both the Solstice and Sky are "halo" cars meant to lure folks into the Pontiac and Saturn dealerships.
C/D also did a review of the updated Pontiac Grand Prix GXP with the 5.3L V8 ... interestingly, the car has narrower tires in the rear (225) than in the front (245) to improve the handling.
I agree. The new Fairlane looks nice. I hear the Freestyle is moving over to Mercury and will be given a new name (Meta One?) Apparently, Ford is losing money on the Freestyle because the price point is too low. The Volvo drivetrain and CVT are not cheap to build so by moving to Mercury and upgrading the materials, the price can be raised to money-making level.
Intersting that you would put the Freestyle in as a wagon and the Pacifica in as a mid sized SUV. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just find it interesting.
I put the Freestyle in the wagon category because it's profile looks more like a tradtional wagon. The Pacifica is arguably a wagon, but it's profile is rather tall.
Also the Pacifica fits the price bracket of V6 Luxury Midsize SUVs, whereas the Freestyle is priced closer to the Magnum, Legacy and Mazda6.
Motor Trend did do a comparison test between the Freestyle and Pacifica a while back.
“C/D also did a review of the updated Pontiac Grand Prix GXP with the 5.3L V8 ... interestingly, the car has narrower tires in the rear (225) than in the front (245) to improve the handling.”
The fronts are 255s.
I have not received my subscription issue – what did they post for acceleration numbers?
That's not rare for FWD cars. I've seen racers with wide, expensive front wheels and the smallest rear wheels they could possibly find (13"ers from old budget cars).
I don't remember the exact numbers on the GXP but it was sub 6 seconds 0--60, like 5.8 or so. The MX5 / Solstice comparo was very limited, and was basically one reviewer's opinion. Although the guy gave the edge to the Solstice the MX5 had better numbers almost across the board. He thought the MX5 was too delicate, and the Solstice seemed better planted. I'll take another peek tonight.
"Although the guy gave the edge to the Solstice the MX5 had better numbers almost across the board."
Well, to be fair, I don't think it's ever really been about "the numbers" in this segment. What counts more are the intangibles ('feel'), so if the reviewer felt the Solstice 'seemed better planted', that can only bode well for the Solstice.
How bad did C&D rip the GXP? Was their review worse than the one on edmunds? The GXP is the first production FWD car with staggered with tires.
I do not consider the $33K 240hp S2000 to be a direct competitor for the Soltice. It is too expensive and too high performing. The Miata is obviously a competitor. The S2000 has only been out for three or four years so it doesnt have the legacy of the miata as some seem to be suggesting. I don't think a cult following exists for the S2000, besides it is such a high strung sports car it's barely subtable for daily driving. I dont think the same thing can be said about the Solstice or Miata. All the reviews I've seen on the Solstice are positive so I wonder what Karl will have to say.
I saw the new civic in MT and I have to say the hype was for nothing. If this Saturn look alike isnt ripped for it's dull styling then I will rest my case on media bias. This car is a dead ringer for the Ion from the front and the interior is way over the top for this conservative segment. I know it will sell well because the current civic is so dated, but I do not it see it being a huge leap forward over the Cobalt or anything else. The Si model is also going to come up way short of the Cobalt SS Sc coupe in terms of performance. Of course it will win every comparison but it's really not in the same league with 139 lb-ft of torque.
Not real sure what my question is, just thought it is interesting.
I have a guess at what your question might be, the same one I have:
How come the print books are always breaking embargos and getting away with it???
Here's where the speed and technology of the Internet works against Edmunds. With a magazine, the manufacturers will say "September 1 embargo, or October issue." But, as we all know, the "October" issue can arrive in the last week or August (like the latest C&D just did). Then the magazine can claim it technically hasn't broken its embargo ("Hey, it says 'October' on that issue.") even though readers and newsstands are getting the issue BEFORE September 1st.
Personally, it annoys the hell out of me. Since we don't have this fudge factor of "XYZ issue" for our embargo, we can't slip stories out ahead of other publications. If a story goes live on our site it's because we posted it live, and there's no way to fake that, "Oops, sorry Honda, we didn't mean to hit that 'publish' button until next week. Butter fingers." See, it just doesn't work.
So we obey embargos...and it usually costs us. However, the flip side is that when there isn't a embargo (which often happens with the European brands) we can usually beat the print books by as much as six weeks. So I guess I'll take the occasional 1-2 week advantage of the print books versus our ever-growing advantage of six weeks over them. Ha!
And let's not even get into event coverage. I almost feel sorry for the buff books when I open their April issue (which did, of course, arrive in early March) and see Detroit Auto Show coverage from the first week of January. The same stuff we had up within hours of each news conference...including video.
I feel like the Freestyle got a raw deal. I know it doesn't have great horsepower, but the packaging is far superior to the Pacifica, and it's much better priced (I guess the Pacifica has finally come down in price, but that thing was a joke at $38,000-plus when it launched, making the Freestyle's initial price much better).
Also, the Pacific's drivetrain ain't no powerhouse either, and it's not particularly refined (the Freestyle has the advantage in NVH, for sure). I think if Ford could have launched that car with a real drivetrain it would have been a smash success, or at least as well received as the Magnum.
The fact that Ford thinks they can salvage the car by rebadging it as a Mercury is pretty scary. When was the last time that worked???
I'll try to answer the many Miata (oops, did it again) and Solstice questions.
First, we're getting a Solstice drive-away this week from the press event in Portland. Our editor actually gets to drive the Solstice from Portland back to L.A. My Ford GT versus GT4 story took place yesterday and today, so I couldn't do it myself. That will teach me for coming up with cool story ideas. (Went really well, BTW.)
Anyway, we'll have the Solstice next week, and we're getting a Miata (there I go again) at the same time, so look for a full-tilt comparison test in a few weeks.
BTW, I drove the new Miata very briefly (but on very Miata-friendly roads) last week, and I was even more impressed than I expected to be. All the usual stuff was there (responsive chassis, excellent steering, playful attitude), but what floored me (literally) was the engine's torque. You could have the thing in fourth gear at 4,000 rpm and roll into the throttle, and the car would absolutely scoot ahead. I don't know what sort of mojo they're injecting these small engines with today, but pretty soon my preference for big displacement V8s will be obsolete. I do agree that the S2000 is too rev-happy for most people (including me), but the new Miata has a very functional power curve. Can't wait to try the Solstice.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to driving both cars back-to-back.
Also, regarding the front licence plate bracket -- I specifically asked the dealer not to drill the holes for my front license bracket on the Ford GT, and they thankfully agreed. I'll probably end up with a ticket for it at some point, but the thought of ****ing up the GT's front end with a license plate was just too painful. Maybe some Solstice buyers will do the same thing, as that car's front end also looks too clean to muck up with a plate.
Thanks. I sure do hope you can do some of these comparos in the near future.
Here's one last one.
Luxury Wagons Jaguar X-Type Mercedes C-Class BMW 3 Series Volvo V50 Audi A4 Avant Saab 9-3 SportCombi
What road tests are coming up? I haven't seen any in a week, when the Commander First Drive was released. I did enjoy reading and looking at the pictures from your European Touring sedan story.
I see Edmunds quoted in newspaper ads touting this or that car.
Does Edmunds get compensated when someone wants to quote all of you? If so, is that a source of "serious" revenue? Do you have people who go out and "drum up" buisness to get money for your quotes?
And lastly, if all the above is true, do you feel it compromises editorial integrity?
If none of the above is true.....well, then.......never mind!!!!!!!!
Do you read any car magazines, such as Car and Driver, or any other media review outlets? If so, which ones? Besides Edmunds, who do you feel accurately reviews new vehicles?
I took another look at it, and 0-60 for the GXP was actually 5.7 seconds. They didn't rip on it at all - in fact, they quite liked it. The article went into some depth on how Pontiac worked to minimize the limitations of the FWD platform - tire sizes and compounds were a big part of it - and the reviewers seemed to think they were quite successful.
The Solstice / MX5 reviewer leaned towards the Solstice mostly due to the fact that the MX5 was a pure sports car with lots of feedback and dartiness. The Solstice was smoother and easier to drive, especially on long trips, but still a lot of fun. The Solstice needs the turbo ASAP to keep up with the MX5, as the Mazda beat it in 0-60 (6.5 sec to 7.2 seconds), braking, quarter mile, skidpad, and had much better gas mileage. The biggest difference I saw was in the weight. The Solstice outweighs the MX5 by over 400 lbs, which I'm sure contributed to the feeling of solidity. I'll stick with light and agile, myself, and if I want an extra 400 lbs of solidity I'll get my mother-in-law to ride shotgun. :P
Actually, my M-I-L is 105 lbs soaking wet but you get the idea.
Looking forward to Edmunds' take on the MX5 / Solstice comparo.
Comments
You called both issues correctly. When you're in the GT it looks like you need the entire street (your lane and the oncoming lane) to not scrape it's sides on parked cars. And parallel parking is a nightmare. I'm slowing getting used to it (commuted for the last two days, have 250 miles on the odo), but I'm just starting to semi-relax when driving it.
I had my wife spot for me the first time it went in the garage because I was convinced it wouldn't fit. She's like, "Karl, the GTX fit in here, and that things huge. Why wouldn't you think this can fit?" Logic suggested she was right, but sitting in the GT it feels as wide as an aircraft carrier. Of course she was right.
I've now realized the width is an optical illusion. It's not that the car is actually wide, but that it's sooooo low and it's still kinda wide. That low roof, combined with a width about the size of my GTX (which is pretty wide by today's standards) translates into a car that looks like a hunkered down Sumo wrestler (only with better curves :P ).
The tach hasn't seen above 3,500 rpm yet. I'm going to be very obessive about the break-in on this one. That means constant rpm variation, and only going up to 3,500 rpm for the first 500 miles, then slowing going up (about 500 rpm increments) as the odo goes from 500 to 2,000 miles. At 2,000, let 'er rip!
Yup, pretty geeky. I know that most cars really don't need a careful break-in because of the tight tolerances that engines are built with today (versus the cars of 20 or 30 years ago). But I keep telling myself that, if there's a car that deserves obsessive/compulsive break-in treatment, this is it.
The bizarre part is that, even with only idle-to-3,500 rpm as my operating zone, I'm still able to basically do whatever I want on public roads. Pass that car? Jump into that open space in the fast lane? Speed away from the other traffic when the light turns green? It's all child's play.
I tend to be pretty cautious with exotic press cars, so I only barely dipped into the GT's full power when I drove the press cars last year. Now I'm not dipping into my own GT's real power at all, because of my break-in procedure. I have to keep reminding myself that this car is FAST, one of the fastest cars ever made. The way I'm driving it, it still seems FAST, and I'm not even scratching the surface.
Very cool (in an almost scary sort of way...).
Well, I picked mine up Tuesday afternoon. And this afternoon on my way home (48 hours later) I saw a red Ford GT going south on PCH as I was going north.
Wow, that was close...
Happy to hear of any other GT sightings out there. I'm just trying to get a feel for how "rare" it is for people to see this car (from the reaction I'm getting, you'd think I was driving the original George Barris Batmobile).
Yes, I've already read the Pontiac Torrent and Jeep Commander reviews. The Torrent seems nice but ulimately there's no getting around the fact that is just an Equinox. The Commander is nice, but I think some overlapping is going to happen between it and the Grand Cherokee. Both are the same price, why not spring for something bigger and roomier? Of course this reasoning only works for people who like the Commander's boxy styling. In any case, the Commander seems a little short on cargo room compared to the Trailblazer/Explorer/Pilot.
I do appreciate you taking time to answer each vehicles. It looks we're going to have a flood of reviews coming in the next two months!
What exactly is an embargo? Does it mean that it is illegal for you to post a Fusion/Milan story before Sept. 1?
I'd encourage you to play Forza Motorsport. It's one of the best car games ever made, and I've played a lot (NFSHP2, NFSU, NFSU2, Midtown Madness 3, PGR2). The game doesn't have a story, but I've yet to find a more realistic game with such stunning graphics, and 231 cars!! Wow! Can't wait for the new Xbox360 and PGR3!!
How about including 5-60 mph times in full tests? I would think for most vehicles everyone would have pretty close to the same results for such a test. Just a suggestion.
One more thing - whenever Edmunds tests an exotic, such as a Ferrari, it seems that you do the story. Don't you let other staff members have any fun?
I know there is an embargo on the new Civic until September first but are you allowed to say if it's a major improvement over it's predecessor?
And, I saw one being unloaded off a transporter at a local dealer a month ago (black with silver stripes, kind of an odd combo IMO but looked ok).
The 'embargo' is simply an agreement that the press has to not release info on new cars until a date set by the manufacturer. I don't think that there is anything binding about the agreement, however, I would imagine that should a media outlet violate the embargo, they may find themselves not invited back to preview cars in the future. Manufacturer's have reasons to set dates for the release of information and they take a dim view of journalists who violate the agreement.
And price was surely a factor. You have to take that into account.
-juice
Also, GT4 is very cool. I can never get sick of driving anything (even a Ford GT) around Laguna Seca or the Nurburgring.
karl, if you want to give your opinion on someone who 'cheaped out' on the 5k stripes on the 'GT', then respond to this post.
your 'GT' does have the stripes as i remember?
I still agree with him for the most part, but when I was at the plant doing my Ford GT Build story (should go live next week, BTW), I saw GT's of just about every color and stripe combination. I have to admit that the non-stripe cars looked better than I thought. However, this is contingent on them having NO stripes. The stripe over the top is a $5,300 option, but the lower side stripes are standard (though you can "delete" them for no charge). Very often you see ones advertised as "no stripes" but they still have the standard, lower side stripe.
After seeing so many GT's at the plant, I've decided that it's either ALL stripes, or NO stripes. The ones with the side stripes, but not the top stripe, look goofy to me. Also, the red ones with NO stripes look fine, but sort-of Ferrari wannabe, IMHO.
Do you know if the one in Burbank has NO stripes, or is it just missing the top stripe and still has the side ones? I saw some all black, NO stripe cars at the plant, and they looked pretty sweet. I saw a white one like that, too, and was surprised at how cool it looked (but the black was still better).
I mentioned a few potential comparison tests in an earlier post.
Sports Sedans
Nissan Maxima
Mazdaspeed 6
Subaru Legacy
Dodge Charger
Chevrolet Impala SS
Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
Wagons
Ford Freestyle
Dodge Magnum
Subaru Legacy
Mazda6
Compact Wagons
Chevrolet HHR
Chrysler PT Cruiser
Honda Element
Scion xB
Midsize V6 Luxury SUVs
Mercedes ML350
Volvo XC90
Lexus RX330
Subaru B9 Tribeca
Chrysler Pacifica
Volkswagen Touareg V6
Acura MDX
Economy Sedans Face-Off
Mazda3
Dodge Caliber
Honda Civic
Hyundai Elantra
Budget Sedans
Chevrolet Aveo
Kia Rio
Hyundai Accent
Toyota Echo
7 Passenger Midsize SUVs
Chevrolet Trailblazer
Ford Explorer
Jeep Commander
Nissan Pathfinder
Toyota 4Runner
And now for my favorite......
American Exotics
Chevrolet Corvette ZO6
Ford GT
Dodge SRT-10
How about a few of them, Karl?
the thing about the stripes is that the next owner, i know it tough to think that way, is going to want the stripes. sort of like buying a car without a/c or with it.
my mental picture of you, after driving the GT, is of either dan akaroyd or chevy chase (take your pick) in the movie 'spies like us' after their centrifuge ride.
It seems that many manufacturers have embargo dates for new vehicle information.
For my example I am going to use the new 2006 Civic. From what I understand the embargo date is 9-1-05. As such, come Sept. 1rst, the net will be full of info. While at the local Barnes and Noble today, I noticed that the new issue of Speed magazine has a first drive article on the 06 Civic Si. From what I can tell they are the first media outlet to have a review - days before the embargo date.
Not real sure what my question is, just thought it is interesting.
Embargo - I guess they have to time it...maybe Speed got an exclusive by promising a few covers to Honda. I believe that is standard industry practice.
-juice
Can't imagine that it would be terribly exciting. "Announcing VW's new entry-level sedan! NVH is down! Handling is down! Looks are down! Cost is up!"
2. Is it worth $5 - 10K over sticker (many Pontiac dealers believe it is) ?
3. Is this one car GM's critical turning point (get it right, they prosper, get it wrong, they founder)?
4. How "recall proof" might this car be ?
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Would these be the same Pontiac dealers asking $5 - 10k over sticker for the '04 GTO?
"3. Is this one car GM's critical turning point (get it right, they prosper, get it wrong, they founder)?"
No and no. What GM need's to get 'right' (and there are probably as many different definitions for what is 'right' as there are lurkers in here) are their bread and butter cars. They got the Corvette 'right' but I don't think it helps GM (as a whole) to prosper. Now, if they get the Solstice 'right' and then applied that to their mainstream offerings, then it's a new ballgame.....
"4. How "recall proof" might this car be ?"
About as 'recall proof' as ANY car in it's first year of production......
Ah.
In other words, before the S2000 all those Honda fans just had to suffer in silence? I suppose that's why I was hanging my head in shame in '84 and again in '86 with a couple of CRX's which regularly ran circles around Fiero's at autocrosses and on the street. Sure wish Honda had a 'halo' car then......
"I think it was a good move because there isnt a lot of competiton in this segment and they are doing something that Toyota/Honda/Nissan aren't doing."
Of course, the competition that IS in this segment (Miata at the low end and S2000 on the high end) are both very, very good. And established.
Actually, I like the interior of the Sky better than the Solstice; but I like the exterior of the Solstice better.
With well tuned steering trickling down to other Pontiacs, they could go head to head with Mazda. It'll be a little sad though, if the Miata gets beaten in sales by a car that's not really better, just because it's a Pontiac.
Uh, only in Detroit. The rest of the country actually needs to see a superior product before they buy.
And here's another comparison test idea.
Roadsters
Honda S2000
BMW Z4
Mercedes SLK350
Chrysler Crossfire
Porsche Boxster
Nissan 350Z
Luxury Coupes
BMW 6 series
Lexus SC430
Cadillac XLR
Mercedes SL500
Jaguar XKR
Ford Freestyle
Dodge Magnum
Subaru Legacy
Mazda6
Midsize V6 Luxury SUVs
Mercedes ML350
Volvo XC90
Lexus RX330
Subaru B9 Tribeca
Chrysler Pacifica
Volkswagen Touareg V6
Acura MDX
Intersting that you would put the Freestyle in as a wagon and the Pacifica in as a mid sized SUV.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I just find it interesting.
The Freestyle and the Pacifica are always being compared to each other so one would think they should be in the same category.
I also saw a comparison between the Freestyle and the Tribeca and the Freestyle beat the Tribeca in a bunch of categories (a couple of them being cargo volume and 0-60 times)
I almost wonder if there should be another tier for wagons to handle this new breed of crossover wagon/SUV.
edit:
base MSRP Price: Freestyle - $25.7K - $31K / Tribeca - $30.7K - $38K
Seating: Freestyle - 6 or 7 seats / 5 or 7 seats
Curb Weight: Freestyle AWD - 4100 lbs. / Tribeca - 4300 lbs.
Engine: Freestyle - 3.0 L V6 / Tribeca - 3.0 L V6
Horsepower: Freestyle - 203 BHP / Tribeca - 250 BHP
Fuel: Freestyle - 87 octane regular / Tribeca - 91 octane premium
Fuel Economy: Freestyle AWD - 19/24 mpg / Tribeca - 18/23 mpg
Acceleration: Freestyle - 0 - 60 8.65 sec / Tribeca - 0 - 60 9.5 secs
1/4 mile Acceleration: Freestyle - 16.59 secs 84.73 mph / Tribeca - 16.99 secs 76.77 mph
Max Cargo Volume: Freestyle - 91.7 cu. ft. / Tribeca - 74.4 cu. ft.
Ford's Fairlane looks a whole bunch more interesting.
-juice
I agree with 1487 that both the Solstice and Sky are "halo" cars meant to lure folks into the Pontiac and Saturn dealerships.
C/D also did a review of the updated Pontiac Grand Prix GXP with the 5.3L V8 ... interestingly, the car has narrower tires in the rear (225) than in the front (245) to improve the handling.
-juice
I'm not saying you're wrong, I just find it interesting.
I put the Freestyle in the wagon category because it's profile looks more like a tradtional wagon. The Pacifica is arguably a wagon, but it's profile is rather tall.
Also the Pacifica fits the price bracket of V6 Luxury Midsize SUVs, whereas the Freestyle is priced closer to the Magnum, Legacy and Mazda6.
Motor Trend did do a comparison test between the Freestyle and Pacifica a while back.
The fronts are 255s.
I have not received my subscription issue – what did they post for acceleration numbers?
Thanks,
- Ray
GXP driver . .
Speaking of production cars, does the Solstice get an exemption from front license plates?
I'll take another peek tonight.
-Jason
Well, to be fair, I don't think it's ever really been about "the numbers" in this segment. What counts more are the intangibles ('feel'), so if the reviewer felt the Solstice 'seemed better planted', that can only bode well for the Solstice.
Thanks - that'll hold me until my copy arrives.
- Ray
Thinking sub-6 is pretty quick, even these days, for a FWD sedan . . .
-juice
I do not consider the $33K 240hp S2000 to be a direct competitor for the Soltice. It is too expensive and too high performing. The Miata is obviously a competitor. The S2000 has only been out for three or four years so it doesnt have the legacy of the miata as some seem to be suggesting. I don't think a cult following exists for the S2000, besides it is such a high strung sports car it's barely subtable for daily driving. I dont think the same thing can be said about the Solstice or Miata. All the reviews I've seen on the Solstice are positive so I wonder what Karl will have to say.
I saw the new civic in MT and I have to say the hype was for nothing. If this Saturn look alike isnt ripped for it's dull styling then I will rest my case on media bias. This car is a dead ringer for the Ion from the front and the interior is way over the top for this conservative segment. I know it will sell well because the current civic is so dated, but I do not it see it being a huge leap forward over the Cobalt or anything else. The Si model is also going to come up way short of the Cobalt SS Sc coupe in terms of performance. Of course it will win every comparison but it's really not in the same league with 139 lb-ft of torque.
Thanks
I have a guess at what your question might be, the same one I have:
How come the print books are always breaking embargos and getting away with it???
Here's where the speed and technology of the Internet works against Edmunds. With a magazine, the manufacturers will say "September 1 embargo, or October issue." But, as we all know, the "October" issue can arrive in the last week or August (like the latest C&D just did). Then the magazine can claim it technically hasn't broken its embargo ("Hey, it says 'October' on that issue.") even though readers and newsstands are getting the issue BEFORE September 1st.
Personally, it annoys the hell out of me. Since we don't have this fudge factor of "XYZ issue" for our embargo, we can't slip stories out ahead of other publications. If a story goes live on our site it's because we posted it live, and there's no way to fake that, "Oops, sorry Honda, we didn't mean to hit that 'publish' button until next week. Butter fingers." See, it just doesn't work.
So we obey embargos...and it usually costs us. However, the flip side is that when there isn't a embargo (which often happens with the European brands) we can usually beat the print books by as much as six weeks. So I guess I'll take the occasional 1-2 week advantage of the print books versus our ever-growing advantage of six weeks over them. Ha!
And let's not even get into event coverage. I almost feel sorry for the buff books when I open their April issue (which did, of course, arrive in early March) and see Detroit Auto Show coverage from the first week of January. The same stuff we had up within hours of each news conference...including video.
Yup, sometimes I almost feel sorry for them.
Also, the Pacific's drivetrain ain't no powerhouse either, and it's not particularly refined (the Freestyle has the advantage in NVH, for sure). I think if Ford could have launched that car with a real drivetrain it would have been a smash success, or at least as well received as the Magnum.
The fact that Ford thinks they can salvage the car by rebadging it as a Mercury is pretty scary. When was the last time that worked???
First, we're getting a Solstice drive-away this week from the press event in Portland. Our editor actually gets to drive the Solstice from Portland back to L.A. My Ford GT versus GT4 story took place yesterday and today, so I couldn't do it myself. That will teach me for coming up with cool story ideas. (Went really well, BTW.)
Anyway, we'll have the Solstice next week, and we're getting a Miata (there I go again) at the same time, so look for a full-tilt comparison test in a few weeks.
BTW, I drove the new Miata very briefly (but on very Miata-friendly roads) last week, and I was even more impressed than I expected to be. All the usual stuff was there (responsive chassis, excellent steering, playful attitude), but what floored me (literally) was the engine's torque. You could have the thing in fourth gear at 4,000 rpm and roll into the throttle, and the car would absolutely scoot ahead. I don't know what sort of mojo they're injecting these small engines with today, but pretty soon my preference for big displacement V8s will be obsolete. I do agree that the S2000 is too rev-happy for most people (including me), but the new Miata has a very functional power curve. Can't wait to try the Solstice.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to driving both cars back-to-back.
Also, regarding the front licence plate bracket -- I specifically asked the dealer not to drill the holes for my front license bracket on the Ford GT, and they thankfully agreed. I'll probably end up with a ticket for it at some point, but the thought of ****ing up the GT's front end with a license plate was just too painful. Maybe some Solstice buyers will do the same thing, as that car's front end also looks too clean to muck up with a plate.
Here's one last one.
Luxury Wagons
Jaguar X-Type
Mercedes C-Class
BMW 3 Series
Volvo V50
Audi A4 Avant
Saab 9-3 SportCombi
What road tests are coming up? I haven't seen any in a week, when the Commander First Drive was released. I did enjoy reading and looking at the pictures from your European Touring sedan story.
Does Edmunds get compensated when someone wants to quote all of you? If so, is that a source of "serious" revenue? Do you have people who go out and "drum up" buisness to get money for your quotes?
And lastly, if all the above is true, do you feel it compromises editorial integrity?
If none of the above is true.....well, then.......never mind!!!!!!!!
-juice
Just curious.
The Solstice / MX5 reviewer leaned towards the Solstice mostly due to the fact that the MX5 was a pure sports car with lots of feedback and dartiness. The Solstice was smoother and easier to drive, especially on long trips, but still a lot of fun. The Solstice needs the turbo ASAP to keep up with the MX5, as the Mazda beat it in 0-60 (6.5 sec to 7.2 seconds), braking, quarter mile, skidpad, and had much better gas mileage. The biggest difference I saw was in the weight. The Solstice outweighs the MX5 by over 400 lbs, which I'm sure contributed to the feeling of solidity. I'll stick with light and agile, myself, and if I want an extra 400 lbs of solidity I'll get my mother-in-law to ride shotgun. :P
Actually, my M-I-L is 105 lbs soaking wet but you get the idea.
Looking forward to Edmunds' take on the MX5 / Solstice comparo.
-Jason