Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
Hmm until 2008 when the Honda Accord Diesel(!)is introduced along with the Volkswagen Rabbit/Jetta/Passat TDI and the Blue Ray or Blu Tec whatever Mercedes vehicles.
As a double bonus play, you should be able to get a Jetta TDI with a manual. Woot woot. :shades:
*edit: sorry about the woot woot I started getting excited.
I myself am far more concerned about the US trait of "up-sizing" and how dramatic the effect is on mfrs. the world over. I just caught a comment from markincinncinnati in another thread referring (paraphrase) to the "upcoming new A4, or rather 'Baby A6' intro".
That trend, IMO, has substantially more impact on the fun factor than pedal-loss. Again, IMO.
LOL!
You go right ahead and woot all you want...
You'll be able to get a Pontiac G8not only in RWD, but also with a stick.
Of course, the General being the General, and consistent as all git out, the 6M won't be available at launch. What will it take 'til they learn? :sick:
I concur. A number of people where I work are young families either with 1 small child or one on the way or both. A number of these folks are looking at minivans---with 1 child. I can't figure out how one 22" 8lb unit can require a vehicle of that size. Many of these folks already have a mid-size or large SUV.
My frame of reference is my siblings and I being carted around in a k-car wagon. I think that if I can't get one or two small children and assorted necessary paraphernalia into a mid-sized wagon (a stick, incidentially :P ), I need to re-examine my life.
The only reason I follow the Passat board is that it (used to) offer a diesel, along with the manual trans, and that there is hope that the diesel will return (in some form) before too long.
My perfect car has 1) a manual transmission, 2) rear-wheel drive, 3) a diesel engine, 4) space to haul my bicycle inside the vehicle, 5) a decent audio system, 6) something resembling luxury (I can finally afford it) & 7) everything else.
The RWD piece eliminates most of today's vehicles, and the manual transmission flushes most of the rest. The diesel thing doesn't even play anymore in North America, at least for the moment. I'll drop my "requirement" for RWD well before the manual transmission, which is why the Passat still plays. . .as do the Audi 3 or 4 -- the S3 sounds particularly worthy.
The next few years could be interesting.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yeah looks like you gotta pay to play...
My thought: where there's a will, there's a work around. Someone will figger how to wire up a kill switch.
Frankly, I doubt there are all that many rear ends hangin' out now (take that any way you like). I use throttle steering quite a bit to work and home again every day without busting anything loose, however, I do have to turn off the Trac (no VSC in mine), because the damn nanny comes on if I even approach wheelspin.
Did I say "damn nanny"? I meant it. At least I have a kill, so's I can leave it on in the rain if I want (which I actually do).
Automatic vs. manual transmission has nothing to do with the availability of functioning of any of the stability control systems that I am aware of.
This is getting off topic, but it's worth noting that there is a BIG difference among stability control systems, how they operate and how effective they are between various manufacturers. They are not all created equal and none can overcome the laws of physics.
Hallelujah, brother! Boy is that ever the truth. Say it again, better yet say it twice more!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And if they put the manual together with the VSC even on cheap models, then I don't suppose there can be a lot of cost or trouble for manufacturers to pair the two. Today, among the cheaper econocars like the Focus you mentioned, the automakers are almost universally guilty of treating the manual-equipped cars as the cheapskate's choice, and equipping them (or rather, NOT equipping them) accordingly.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
BTW, for what it's worth, Chrysler minivans were initially built on k-car platforms. K-car wagons were not much smaller than minivans, especially in terms of length.
Brightness04 and I are in absolute agreement on something for the very first time. ;-)
In our case, we hung on to our two stick-shifted sedans until our second child was born before we cracked. I mean geez, how silly is it to have to take two cars to dinner just because Grandma came into town? For our part, for as long as we have kids at home (another seven to eight years by the looks of things), we'll have at least one minivan in the family (we currently have two).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Our 1989 Voyager was only 176 inches long, IIRC...this was only about a foot longer than the Horizon, so I imagine the K car was about the same length as the minivan.
BTW, even though that minvan was a manual trans, not too big, and I would guess not real heavy, my new Mazda6 automatic is still more fun to drive than that was. :P
There are not many cars on the market in which it is possible to put three carseats across the middle bench. In most cars, having even two harnessed seats installed makes it impossible to put a third passenger in the second row. That means that if you *ever* want to carry a fifth person, child or adult, you can't do it without a minivan or something with third row seating. Lots of people want to be able to transport a child's friend for carpools, playdates, etc.
I drive an 06 Legacy. It's a reasonably sized car, but with carseats in there, it is absolutely a four passenger car. That's why we also own an Odyssey.
No, KnD alluded to the real culprit: their adorable little friends!
Little friends must always come along for the ride to somewhere. Never just one little friend, but two or even three, and all must be restrained properly. And they have things. Things that must accompany them to somewhere. Many times, though, the things seem to miss out on the return trip. Funny things, those things.
Started with a Caravan SE, then a T&C EX and then a T&C Limited. My wife loves her vans. I get driving duty on the Disneyland haul (6 hours), and it takes me to Home Depot maybe three times a year (amazing how much you can get into a compact wagon). My favorite was the one-step-above-stripper Caravan SE. I don't give a hoot for bells and whistles in the van.
Honestly, though, I'd rather drive a mule team than be out of my compact.
This is one of the few times I am actually thankful I am not taller, I think my normal driving position will allow room for a child seat in just about any vehicle. Like I said, I just can't see a 22in, 10lb entity pushing me from Civic territory to minivan territory.
Ummm, have you seen new car seats recently? I happened to be strolling through our local Target this weekend last and was stunned to see the current batch of car seats. Yikes! There is absolutely no way three of those monsters would fit side by side in any car (or van for that matter) that we've ever had (errr, my family's 1969 Plymouth Sport Suburban station wagon doesn't count).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Dear boy, the SportCross is only four years old! I have indeed seen the modern car seat.
Whiners, says I, whiners!
Actually, the real advantage to the "mini"van is that the car seats can have a bit more gap between them. "I'm not on your side..."
You say "bah", I say B.S.
A 2003 Sportcross has 53.5" of rear shoulder room. I just measured our Century car seat that we are giving to neighbors who just had a third child. It's 18.75" in width at the shoulder area. Let me help you with the math, "dear boy": 3 x 18.75" = 56.25". In the words of Bob Uekker, that's "just a bit outside" of your car's 53.5" (theoretical) capacity. :confuse:
I checked dimensions of other (Consumer Report recommended)car seats online, and they generally range from 18" to 19". So I guess if you found three of the barely 18" variety, and you jammed them in there with some KY jelly, riding them up on the seat bolsters of the outboard seats, and then slammed the hell out of the doors, you might be able to achieve 1/2" of "compression" and get them in your Sportcross. And if you don't find that burdonsome, good as heck for you.
On the other hand, if you install car seats properly according to their safety instructions (I know, a minor detail), you can barely get 3 across in our 2005 MDX with 61.1" of third row shoulder room. They are supposed to fit securely in the seat and not tilted sidways pressed up against the door. But hey, what's a little fudging, right?
Lest you think I'm a "whiner", I can comfortably fit our post-car-seat family of four in a 911, accept no complaints with the top down at 70 mph, and on neighborhood jaunts, my 8 year old daughter flawlessly shifts gears from the passenger seat. A feat that she mastered in our S2000 at the age of 4. No manual transmission "whiners" in this family.
I have a $100 bill with your name on it if you post a picture of three real car seats accross the back of a Sportcross with the doors shut and everything (i.e. seat belts, etc.) functioning properly. An extra $100 if they are filled with three smiling faces. Fair deal? Or are you back down to 10 "bahs"?
Hmmm, rather than cavalier, I'd say sensible. Trying to think of the proper term for today's thinking that an 80 pound 8 year old needs to be in a car seat.
My daugter probably only weighed about 10-15 pounds more than that when she was learning to drive...she might be up to 100 pouds by now, though.
All this time we had only manual transmissions...Plymouth Horizon and Voyager.
The manual transmission voyager would have held three car seats...but we took the apparently crazy risk of putting 6 year old in just the car's seat belt.
I have no trouble keeping a child in a seat longer so that the seat belt is in a better position to protect my child and prevent injury and suffering. Call me crazy, I don't want my kid to get hurt, and if I can do something easy to reduce the risk, I will.
Precisely so!
No, I think we'll leave it at 11, H1. Indeed I said it was a partial "Bah" at the top of the post, as certainly I focused on the extra passengers and their acoutrements one gets along with a couple of children, and not necessarily the carseats. I said I'd done it, not that I recommend it, and I also said I wouldn't live with it.
I believe modern Americans can function quite easily in even a compact sedan with two carseats, provided you aren't responsible for the tag-alongs. That was my point on whiners (with one carseat-child, it's not just whining, it's totally pathetic!). Once the extras come along for the ride, well, that's the pivot at which we turned to the "mini"van.
My wife and I faced a similar dilemma recently. The lease was up on our minivan and after driving my MazdaSpeed6, my wife decided that she'd really like to go back to a manual.
She liked the high driving position of the minivan and since we had recently moved into a house with a long, steep driveway that gets rough in the snow, we decided on an SUV. Since we're soon to be down to 2 kids, we also could forgo the 3rd row seat.
The number of SUVs available with a manual and priced in the low 20's appeared to be limited to the Santa Fe, the Xterra, FJ Cruiser and the Grand Vitara. We also looked at the Outback, but my wife felt that the driving position was too low. We didn't look at any Ford, Chrysler or GM offerings due to previous bad experiences with these brands.
We finally settled on the Xterra since she liked the way it looked and the way that it drove. However, we had to order it to get it with a manual and configured with the color and options that she wanted.
But I could be wrong, it's happened MANY times before...
:-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A prudent decision.
A few years ago, my wife took our SUV to a car seat "test" offered at GEICO headquarters, co-sponsored by Washington Childrens' Hospital and Georgetown Hospital. They set up a couple of drive through lanes and would check to see if your car seat(s) were properly installed. She was devastated when she "only" got a "B+", since there was some slight wiggle in the seat. She felt a little better seeing the large number of "D" and "F" grades that made the local news later that night. For those parents that were inclined to question the need for a booster seat for a child that weighed 60 or 70 lbs, they also had emergency room and coroner photographs of injuries that can occur when a child is belted in with just a seat belt and shoulder strap designed/positioned for an adult. Trust me, seeing a wind pipe torn open in a 35 mph accident is enough to shut up any skeptic.
I may be willing to take my own calculated risks going out onto a baseball and softball fields this spring after having rotator cuff surgery and ACL surgery this past year.
Many 80 pound 8 year olds don't need to be in a booster seat, but some smaller 8 year-olds sure do. It's not just about weight, it's about height too. Think about it: seatbelts are designed for adult-sized people. Most small children in belts alone are going to have the shoulder belts against their necks and the lap belts over their stomachs, rather than over their hips. This puts them at risk of serious internal injuries in the event of a crash, and there is crash data to back this up.
(Public service announcemnt: If you want to know if your kid still needs a booster, google "five-step test" and you'll get some good links.)
One more thing about carseats and compact cars. Rearfacing carseats take up a *lot* of space. Current safety recommendations (once again, backed up by real crash data!) recommend rearfacing until the upper limits of the seat, usually around 33 lbs. That means that you can have two or more years of rearfacing if you're following best practices. I have a Britax Marathon installed rearfacing behind the driver's seat of my Legacy wagon. My 6'2" husband can barely drive the car because the seat has to be pushed too far forward to accommodate the seat. Now the Legacy has a pretty small second row, but that's a common problem in smaller cars.
FWIW, I gave up my manual Forester in favor of an automatic Legacy because of my long commute in stop and go traffic. It had nothing to do with my kids or my carseats!
I may be willing to take my own calculated risks going out onto a baseball and softball fields this spring after having rotator cuff surgery and ACL surgery this past year. But I too would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to our kids."
Obviously. Why else would one let a four-year old shift their S2000 for them... :P
Ahhh, but that is the law in my state...up to age 8 and 80 pounds, I don't know if there is a height limit in that law. When I heard about this going into effect, I thought it was excessive.
It would be nice if cars would come with height adjustable sholder belts in the rear...it is true that they are often too high. I think the lap belt is more a matter of putting on correctly. When our kids were out of car seat, but still little, we'd usually put them in middle of back seat which had no shoulder belt. This was in manual transmission cars, of course
I also don't believe they made car seats that fit kids over about maybe 40-50 pounds back then in the stone age, anyway.
Children must be secured in an appropriate child passenger restraint (safety seat or booster seat) until they are at least 6 years old or weigh at least 60 pounds.
Comes with this recommendation:
If your car's back seat is lower than your child's ears, use a high back booster seat to help protect your child's head and neck.
I figured you'd put two and two together on that.
So am I to assume that I won't be sending you that $100 bill showing your claim of achieving 3 car seats across in the back of your Sportcross? Or are you going to wait for another opportunity to change the subject? :P :P