Mystery car pix

andys120

Doh, I can't believe I forgot there were no dual h/ls before '58. Good thing that guy got a '58, he needed it to keep up w the neighbors.

kyfdx

This person needs help identifying older cars:
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/52059/general/x/if-someone-could-identify-these-old-vehicles-like-the-year-built-would-be-helpful#latest

Mr_Shiftright

lostwrench1 said:

No, sorry, no cigar.
It's the rare 1958 Plymouth Silver Special.
Note the "knife" on the lower side with the long thin "handle".
Some consider it not rare but very rare.
Mr. Shiftright can tell us how rare.

Apparently no one is quite sure how many Plymouths got the Silver Special trim package.

In any event, yes, it's rare (I've seen a few) but nobody cares, at least not enough to pay any extra for it.

This mostly cosmetic package was offered on the Plaza.

Here's one for sale at a record-breaking price of $3,500:

http://www.collectorcarads.com/Plymouth-Silver-Special/63987

stickguy

I like the blue gremlin sitting behind it!

Mr_Shiftright

He does seem to have an enviable collection there....

andys120

andys120

I can't think of a good clue for this one...it's Ford-powered, MY 2000. going...going...

qbrozen

I don't see headlights so don't believe it counts as a production car.(??)
my first thought was TVR 

qbrozen

Here is a street-legal version (2004)

andys120

You've got it Gbrozen, it's a 2000 Panoz GTS (track version).

andys120

stickguy

That a 73 GTO?

berri

Doh, I can't believe I forgot there were no dual h/ls before '58.

You didn't forget Andys. During the 57 model year after most states approved dual headlights, some upper level models came with them like Chrysler and DeSoto. In fact, you would see some Desoto's (or even Imperials for that matter) with duals and others with single headlamps that year.

berri

Didn't realize that Pontiac had a GTO package in 73. For some reason I thought it became called something like Grand Am. Where's Andre the Pontiac man? Always learning something from you guys.

stickguy

That was a separate model. Not really sure what the differences were.

texases

Here's an article on the Grand Am, mentions the GTO.
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2018/02/08/pontiacs-grand-experiment

Mr_Shiftright

The '73 GTO is a fairly rare car, and if you ordered yours with the optional 455 cid engine, you're one of only 544 built that year.

texases

But no SD or HO versions...(my mistake previously) Wiki has this to say:

"The standard 400 CID V8 in the 1973 GTO was further reduced in compression to 8.0:1, dropping it to 230 hp (170 kW). The 400 engine was available with any of the three transmissions including the standard three-speed manual, or optional four-speed or Turbo Hydra-Matic. The 455 CID V8 remained optional but was dropped to 250 hp (186 kW) and available only with the Turbo Hydra-Matic transmission. The 455 HO engine did not reappear, but GM initially announced the availability of a Super Duty 455 engine (shared with the contemporary Pontiac Trans Am SD455), and several such cars were made available for testing, impressing reviewers with their power and flexibility. Nevertheless, the Super Duty was never actually offered for public sale in the GTO. Also, eight 455SD Grand Ams were also built for testing and eventually all were destroyed as well. "

Mr_Shiftright

'73 was right smack in the middle of the gas rationing, too, and rising fuel prices and early (and often clunky) attempts at emissions controls.

stickguy

I still like the 74 model better. Faster too.

I would love a nice clean 4 speed 74.

I think I have issues.

imidazol97

andys120 said:

Thanks for posting this. I don't remember this GTO at all.

It's kind of homely with the heavy front bumper hanging on there and the wimpy tapered rear side panel. Not the best year for Pontiac.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

andys120 said:

Thanks for posting this. I don't remember this GTO at all.

It's kind of homely with the heavy front bumper hanging on there and the wimpy tapered rear side panel. Not the best year for Pontiac.

A sad end. It was no longer its own model but an option package on the LeMans, barely mentioned in the brochure.

I never understood how Olds was able to use a slimmer front bumper on the '73 Cutlass while Pontiac was stuck with that battering ram.

I don't know what the price difference was between a GTO LeMans and a Grand Am but the latter was a much better-looking car inside and out, even if you had to give up the 455 in favor of a 400.

stickguy

wasn't the first GTO just an option package on the Lemans too? Or cutlass, whatever the model was in 1964.

imidazol97

ab348 said:

I never understood how Olds was able to use a slimmer front bumper on the '73 Cutlass while Pontiac was stuck with that battering ram.

I wonder if the positioning of the various parts that were rated for damage in certain accident conditions for the government involvement in passenger car "safety" had something to do with Olds being able to have less damage and a neater bumper while Pontiac had to have the heavier bumper and have it stuck out farther to avoid going over the testing damage amount.

"First standards 1971

In 1971, the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued the country's first regulation applicable to passenger car bumpers.[why?] Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 215 (FMVSS 215), "Exterior Protection," took effect on 1 September 1972—when most automakers would begin producing their model year 1973 vehicles. The standard prohibited functional damage to specified safety-related components such as headlamps and fuel system components when the vehicle is subjected to barrier crash tests at 5 miles per hour (8 km/h) for front and 2.5 mph (4 km/h) for rear bumper systems.[34] The requirements effectively eliminated automobile bumpers designs that featured integral automotive lighting components such as tail lamps.

In October 1972, the US Congress enacted the Motor Vehicle Information and Cost Saving Act (MVICS), which required NHTSA to issue a bumper standard that yields the "maximum feasible reduction of cost to the public and to the consumer".[35] Factors considered included the costs and benefits of implementation, the standard's effect on insurance costs and legal fees, savings in consumer time and inconvenience, as well as health and safety considerations.

The 1973 model year passenger cars sold in the US used a variety designs. They ranged from non-dynamic versions with solid rubber guards, to "recoverable" designs with oil and nitrogen filled telescoping shock-absorbers.[36]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumper_(car)

Mr_Shiftright

They didn't make many '73 GTOs. You aren't likely to see one.

lostwrench1

I had a 1973 Pontiac Catalina (400 cubes) which had a front bumper with which one could have cleared a path in the woods.

andys120

Mr_Shiftright said:

They didn't make many '73 GTOs. You aren't likely to see one.

There's a simple reason for that, by '73 insurers were asking enormous surcharges for muscle cars, especially those driven by younger drivers (who were the heart of the muscle car market). The car makers saw the market drying up and reduced production.

omarman

That's funny. I mean when did insurance companies repent from profiteering? I missed that news headline back in 1974...Naderites Nuke GTO! Insurance Rates Too Low To Meter!

Now back to the music, "TSOP, The Sound Of Pintos (exploding)" by MFSB (Muscle Free Stink Box)

True that young drivers with high claim rates paid higher premiums in the 70s. Is that not still true today?

As far as muscle car performance goes, a modern Civic gets the job done better than most GTO's ever did. So why haven't the insurance companies driven car makers out of the performance biz today?

"driven." See what I did there?

tjc78

Drive any peak era muscle car like a hooligan... end up wrapped around a tree.  

Drive an understeering new Civic like a hooligan and every safety nanny in the world keeps you out of the woods.  

Big difference even if straight line performance is similar.  

andys120

AFAIK young drivers with Mustangs, Camaros and the like still pay thru the nose for insurance.

stickguy

my Duster, Gremlin, etc. with a straight 6 might not have been nearly as quick as a GTO, but with drum brakes and ox cart suspensions, plenty easy to put into a ditch or a tree.

ab348

The Colonnade cars all looked like a step backwards to me. Bigger on the outside, small on the inside, with fussy styling that just left me cold. The LeMans with its blunt nose and tapered tail looked to me like it should have been reversed, though it improved slightly with the horizontal rectangular headlamps offered in '76 and '77. They did drive nicely for the era. Strange days indeed.

berri

Also, the competition in general wasn't exactly offering a lot of good lookers in that era.

Mr_Shiftright

andys120 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

They didn't make many '73 GTOs. You aren't likely to see one.

There's a simple reason for that, by '73 insurers were asking enormous surcharges for muscle cars, especially those driven by younger drivers (who were the heart of the muscle car market). The car makers saw the market drying up and reduced production.

Well sure that's part of it, but lets' face it, by 1973 the GTO had lost its identity--as had many cars.

Remember the 1972 Thunderbird? It turned into a monster, and every bit of the charm of the earlier 'Birds had been eradicated.

Also, plenty of buyers back then probably thought the colonnade styling was a bit weird, at least looking through 1970s eyeballs.

omarman

tjc78 said:

Drive any peak era muscle car like a hooligan... end up wrapped around a tree.  

Drive an understeering new Civic like a hooligan and every safety nanny in the world keeps you out of the woods.  

Big difference even if straight line performance is similar.  

I agree that old muscle car vs. modern Honda, the modern car "gets the job done better than most GTO's ever did."

But regarding, "Drive an understeering new Civic like a hooligan and every safety nanny in the world keeps you out of the woods..." is where I must be missing the point you're making.


State of the art safety engineering in modern cars is impressive my friend but you (still) can't fix stupid.

fintail

The wheels on that car look to predate modern nannies.

andys120

Remember this movie shot of german cars?



The two cars on the left were identified but not any of the others, probably because they weren't sold in North America.

This looks like
the car next to the BMW>



Anyone?

The grilles of the next two cars were odd. I couldn't quite place them but then I figured out they were couple of these>



Know what it is?

Mr_Shiftright

That's a Ford Taunus P5 I think they call it.

tjc78

@omarman

The point was that many modern cars outperform muscle cars, but the handling and modern nannies tame that performance and make the cars safer.  

omarman

Lol! I think we agree on the pattern here...

Cars made in 2018 are safer than cars made 50 years ago.
And cars made in 1968 were safer than cars made 50 years before that.

And throughout automotive history we also learn that you can't fix stupid.

Video taken from the control tower shows a van crossing a runway at the Springfield-Branson National Airport just seconds ahead of an airliner that was taking off.

No one was injured in the June 27 incident. The jetliner, an Embraer 145 operated by Envoy Air, was carrying 50 passengers and three crew.

A report filed by Jim Brown, driver of the van, indicates he and two other people were taking the van to an airport employee barbecue.

berri

...and they almost got barbequed themselves

Mr_Shiftright

Speaking of vans....

I actually don't know what this is, although I have my suspicions. HINT: Photo taken on the island of Malta.

And no, it was not a prototype Aztek

ab348

A Maltese bread van!

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/the-amazing-maltese-bread-van/

omarman

Mr_Shiftright said:

Speaking of vans....

I actually don't know what this is, although I have my suspicions. HINT: Photo taken on the island of Malta.

And no, it was not a prototype Aztek

Zeiss, with help from his benefactor a Sicilian mafia lord, built the Gogglemobile to conquer Gotham and destroy his nemesis.

Batman, however, had just unveiled the new tactical Batguano.

Mr_Shiftright

Sooo...built off a Bedford truck....as I suspected. It's not easy to make a Bedford van even uglier than it originally was.

I guess when you live on an island, after a while you get a little....funny....

ab348

The bread van looks like a cousin of one of the many customized Malta buses that used to be a fairly common sight there:



Apparently even though the old customized units are no longer in regular service an organization there is attempt to preserve and restore them.

imidazol97

Mr_Shiftright said:

Speaking of vans....
And no, it was not a prototype Aztek

Now that's a low blow to the Aztek. Even in its worst colors, it was better than this.

Maybe a Juke?

Definitely has 1958 Ford heritage! LOL

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, I guess that was a cruel remark, although I don't regret making it.

Malta is the only big island in the Med I haven't been to yet.

Too bad that van wasn't a Ford. It could be the Maltese Falcon!

andys120

stickguy

obviously a plymouth barracude convertible. I will guess it is a 66