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Sales Flops of 2005
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boaz: "But they have been down on the Bottom of the JD Powers dependability list so long that with the exception of KIA we could award them the place as their benchmark. Two of the brands that rate higher than VW are Isuzu, with almost no customer base and Daewoo which is discontinued. Daewoo customers must still like them better."
LMAO! Don't do that man, I almost choked on my food! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Fair question. I followed the Armada threads early on and roof buffeting was the big issue, at least back then. The noise was intolerable to some people. Some had dealers add epoxy to try to get the sheet metal to adhere to the B-pillars better.
I noticed an interior that looked "budget" to me, so this didn't surprise me. The 3rd row didn't split fold, either. The misses were in the interior.
I never complained about the running gear, in fact I test drove one and it impressed the heck out of me.
geo9: "driveline issues" is extremely vague, what specific problems did you observe?
Mazda6 had a stumble at the start with that "staining", i.e. rust on the door jambs. The MazdaSpeed6 has a heat soak issue and loses power, so it's still having problems. I think the biggest problem is that it's playing the red-headed step-sister to the Fusion, which got a longer wheelbase and is more up-to-date. The Zephyr replacement will get the 3.5l first, too.
I would not call it a flop, though. It's just getting along in age and should be replaced soon.
-juice
Ask Jolie in the CCB thread ! Not to mention the
titan, Q and armadas threads here at edmunds and
titantalk.com..............
Been a tough 3 years for those vehicles!
plant use only 4 & 6 cyl. engines and I can assume different trans. and rearends than the others.
They both sell quite well and I don't notice as many
complaints on assembly, quality, or driveline issues
like the others. Not to mention their resale value
is quite strong compared to their big brother models
according to the sales guys at the Smart Shopper threads.
They've been around since, when? Early 90s Maximas?
-juice
The 2001 Nissan XTerra (nicknamed the "XTerrable") was a peice of garbage and Nissan refined it so much that it is now ranking very high (#1 or #2). That only took Nissan five years.
I have an '03 G35 which was one of the first 2,100 produced. It had so many problems that Infiniti was forced to replace just about every working part except the engine. Now it runs fantastic. This took a lot of pain and effort on my part to legally make Infiniti fix the problems. Many others with the '03 G35 sedan had issues. So much for the Motor Trend car of the year? Now, the 2006 model is almost flawless and people love it. This took three years so Nissan/Infiniti is improving!
The '02 Jaguar X-Type 3.0 was such a junker that Jaguar replaced many units without being forced by external entities. Most issues were fixed by '03. Jaguar/Ford is used to junkers, so it only takes a year to fix most units.
The kicker is Nissan/Infiniti rarely does anything to help the consumer unless forced by the government or legal action. I will NEVER purchase Nissan/Infiniti again. Love their styling, but dislike their insolent behavior towards the customer after sale.
This is nothing like Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus who usually have first year production winners. One major exception is the previous generation of Acura TL which had transmission problems. I seriously doubt we will see problems with the '08 Camry. How many issues are there with Toyota trucks? The Honda Pilot and Ridgeline were winners from the beginning, etc.... Why does Honda have five models ranked at the top of their class?
Even Hyundai is catching-up to the #3 Japanese car maker: Nissan/Infiniti. Hyundai may even give Honda and Toyota a run in a few years.
Enough rambling...just no surprise Nissan would produce garbage like the Armada. Just because it is Japanese does not mean it is a good product.
-juice
But they are certainly not perfect either, but neither are H/T. This coming from a supporter of those brands...
Having driven it for only about 120 miles (it was a loaner, and had about 10000 miles on the odo), I noticed three issues with the interior, and one potential issue with transmission. The speedometer would to get stuck between 40 and 55 mph (and will stay there even when barely rolling to a stop). The central armrest/cupholder assembly was wobbly, and the lid was flimsy.
As for the transmission, the car just couldn't decided which gear it wanted to be in, and would come back with a jerk after the car was stopped.
This is besides the rest of my experience behind the wheel which wasn't good either... steering was too light, more so at higher speeds, the car felt too tall and narrow, and tires that hated any road surface.
And I had heard the interior quality was improved! I wonder what 2002-2005 versions were like.
Here's a 2005 Altima SL interior.
Now this isn't a totally fair comparison, because the SL is trimmed better, but to me it looks like they cleaned up the interior a bit. I don't know if the actual materials are any better, but I think they just made it all flow a bit better. I think they also improved the gaps and alignment of the various panels and such, too. The main thing I don't like is the gauge cluster, which looks like you could easily just pop it off of the dash, but then I don't really care for the '02-04 style, either, which just looks like a cancerous bump.
The new one just debuted at NY yesterday.
-juice
For example, here's the dash of a 2000 Intrepid. The faces of the controls are fairly vertical, and actually angled a bit towards the driver. I wonder if having that slant to the controls, like the Altima has, would take much getting used to?
-juice
Also, remember that it cost them very little since they used an existing platform and powertrain.
This is not a flop by ANY stretch of the imagination. It won North American Truck of the Year, so it's closer to the opposite!
-juice
When you figure it only offers one bodystyle and one engine, and only AWD, that's not too bad.
In contrast, Dodge moved 8,165 Dakotas in March, and 19,008 YTD. And that's a truck that offers 2wd and 4wd, two cab configurations, and both V-6 and V-8 power. Nissan moved a similar number of Frontiers.
The Ridgeline also outsells the Avalanche, although the Avalanche's numbers might be a bit low, if they're switching over to the new body style now.
Ridgeline is a new entry that is trying to gain market share for its manufacturer. Not an established nameplate.
On pace to sell 60k per year, that means Honda invested very little and is raking in big bucks with very little effort. They probably need to hire more accountants to count all the profits.
Flop? Heck no! :mad:
-juice
My BIL had an Altima SL when they came out in 02' An EGR valve or throttle body issue sent himback to the dealer where he traded it on a Maxima (Just broke 80k or so, problem free) And his then fiance mentioned the auto tranny was funky.
Like the restyle, but I don't think they went far enough on the interior. I give it a B- for effort over the current model.
Ridgeline did start out slow for the first 5-6 months, but has since caught sales, and at current pace, Honda will have to increase production.
As for lean production... no automaker wants to load their vehicles with incentives. They want to sell every one they make... a great way of getting the business done.
They are selling pretty moderately around here. Probably now that Honda has lowered the astronomical asking price to reasonable levels...
Ridgeline is quite popular in the part of Dallas area where I live in.
Bob
In the end, it sold the number of units they forecast. Which is about the same volume as the SportTrac, which is its closest competitor.
It's one ugly vehicle.
I just turned-in the '03 off lease and really miss it. The thing I do not miss is buying premium fuel at the inflated prices today.
The '03 and '04 X-Types were huge sales flops because the '02 model was so bad and Jaguar asks +/- 38K for a loaded unit. People still think of the car as something between a Ford Contour and a Ford Taurus. From driving one for 3+ years it is not, but public perception is Jaguar's reality.
thread. Did anybody note the recall that was announced
a couple days ago? Something about broken door handles.
But to be fair my Chevy prob. has 10x as many TSBs and
recalls
I mean seriously, what other cars in the market offer RWD and over 300 HP for under $40K?
PS. I did passed up TL and TSX for the IS.
Ford Mustang GT
Dodge Charger
350Z
Pontiac GTO
(OK OK, maybe a little bit different market, but technically...) ;-)
I mean seriously, what other cars in the market offer RWD and over 300 HP for under $40K and at the same time offer a luxurious touch for the interior. :P
-juice
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It deserves to flop, what blind guy designed that back end??
However, i actually like the Baja, if my Wife didn't have a Ranger, I would have gotten one.
:surprise:
I'm sure you could have gotten an extremely good deal on it...
and
Baja...if my Wife didn't have a Ranger, I would have gotten one
But the new Impreza has been a big success. It's an old model, yet sales are way up.
And the Baja was the one that flopped. So your opinion seems to be the reverse of the buying public's.
-juice
Also Hyundai Sonata is a popular fleet car as is the Pontiac G6.
The Ford 500 is doing poorly but its smaller sister car the Fusion Ford is happy with sales with. I think what it comes down too is looks. The Fusion even you don't like it at least on the road you take notice of it. Sure the 500 is bland I don't know in my opinion a big car like the 500 I don't expect it too really stand out. I mean we are talking about a full-size car here. Auto publications were so quick to blast the 500 for bland styling but I just don't expect a car like that too really stand out. I know the Chrysler 300 stands out but is the 300 really a full size car by EPA ratings? I have sat in a 500 and it felt full-size but when I look at a 300 it doesn't look really full-size too me like a Avalon or a 500 would. Keep in mind I have never sat in an Avalon or a 300 but I just viewed them from the outside.
It doesn't have enough of an advantage over the TL to justify an almost $15K price premium. Maybe if it came with a V-8, it would sell better.
-juice
By EPA ratings, the 300 is a full-sized car. But also going by EPA ratings, so is the Ford Taurus!
The problem, IMO, lies where the EPA has the cutoff for what constitutes a full-sized car. Right now that cutoff is 120 cubic feet of combined interior and trunk volume. Well, your typical Accord, Camry, or Altima is already very close to that, coming in around 117-119 cubic feet. The newest 2007 Camry might actually be considered full-sized! IIRC, the Sonata and Azera are also considered full-sized cars. Something like the 300 comes in at around 121-122 cubic feet, barely over the full-sized cutoff. In contrast, traditional full-sized cars, like the Crown Vic, old-style Caprice, etc, were more like 130 cubic feet or more. The old '93-96 Fleetwood was actually so big that it had 120 cubic feet just in passenger room! You could have cut off the trunk entirely and it STILL would have been a full-sized car.
However, I think most of these cars are getting classified as full-sized mainly because of increased headroom. The roofs are getting taller, so that measurement goes up and interior volume goes up. Often though, these supposedly full-sized cars still don't end up feeling all that big inside because they don't have alot of shoulder room, or they have some serious intrusion from the wheel wells, tranny/driveshaft/exhaust hump, too much curvature on the sides, roof, etc.
As for the 300 compared to the Avalon or 500, well the 500 has by far the biggest back seat and biggest trunk of the three. I find the 300 to be roomier up front than the 500, though. The seat doesn't sit up as high, but it goes back further from the cowl and I can fit in it more comfortably. In the 500 I feel like I'm sitting in an old pickup truck. High up off the floor, but not much room to stretch out. 300's also have small windows, very thick roof pillars, a high beltline, and tend to come with dark interiors, so that may also make them feel tighter inside.
Well the Milan may have a more plush ride than the Fusion because its a Mercury and Mercury is considered mid-luxury right. Maybe the Fusion has a sportier ride than the Milan. I have sat in the Milan and its a nice car but the back of it stylistically doesn't do it for me. The front end of it looks pretty nice though with the huge grille. The interior in the Milan isn't half bad. I have sat in the Fusion and its pretty nice even though I wouldn't buy one.
Well, the Camry and Accord get bigger each time they are redesigned. I wonder if the 94-97 accord was rated by EPA mid-size or compact but I have heard the 98 accord was the first time the Accord was rated as "officially" a "mid-size". Also, the Altima I wonder where the first two generations(93-97 and 98-01) of Altima were rated. I would guess the first generation of Altima(93-97)was probably rated compact by EPA. The 98-01 I don't know. The current Altima if you are 6 foot you could probably fit in the backseat very comfortably.
"The newest 2007 Camry might actually be considered full-sized!"
I'm not surprised that the current Camry would be considered full-size. I did sit in the backseat of the previous generation Camry and it was very roomy in the backseat.
"the Sonata and Azera are also considered full-sized cars."
The Sonata I have heard that it is rated as a full-size car. The Azera well it has to be full-size since its going up against the Avalon, 500, 300 and the LaCrosse.
"300's also have small windows, very thick roof pillars, a high beltline, and tend to come with dark interiors, so that may also make them feel tighter inside."
Thats one of the things about Chrysler's newer cars that I don't is that they have very small windows which probably impedes your view out. I mean say you were traveling on I-95 in Deleware and Maryland with there are 4 lanes of traffic going in one direction in a car like a Chrysler 300. Wouldn't there be a lot of blind spots that you couldn't see while traveling on an interstate like I-95 in a Chrysler 300 or a Dodge Magnum?
I had issues with every Nissan/Infiniti that I ever bought. Nissan/infiniti never offered to do anything unless legally pressed. Kudos to Toyota for being loyal to their customers. While I am not a Toyota fan, this customer loyalty will just make the brand stronger.
Once they get this issue under control this may not be a sales flop. For now, sales are slower according to the other posts.
To the previous poster: My '06 Accord EX with Nav. has enough room for five adults. There is plenty of rear seat space. No cramping. Power is fine with five adults in the car. Very happy with the purchase. It may look vanilla, but it is a heck of a car!
Rocky