Sales Flops of 2005

british_rover

You are correct. I used to work on a couple of those trim level Fords.

sbadeaux

Check out lexus.com

IS250
Base MSRP $31,470
With loaded Navigation and Mark Levinson $36,310

Is350
Base MSRP 35,040
Loaded with Navigation and Mark Levison $40,740

Keep in mind this vehicle loaded has options that the other cars you mention dont even offer. Yeah its priced higher but you also keep most of it with the higher retained value.

explorerx4

i don't know why anyone would get either the the nav or 'levi(unless they got them cheap). they are not worth the money.

gagrice

i don't know why anyone would get either the the nav or 'levi

Truer words are hard to find. The NAV & Levinson option on the 2005 Lexus ES330 has a trade-in value of $240 each. The discounted price on those two items on the 2006 ES330 is $2720. You would have to keep the car a couple decades to get your monies worth.

Another flop for Toyota hybrids?

The Rx 400h, however, posted its lowest results yet for the 10 months it has been on the market, dropping down to 1,477 units.

Toyota only sold 7654 Prius in January. Not as many as I would have guessed with the tax credit available.

explorerx4

the prius is being sold as a fleet vehicle to the state motor pool in connecticut.

fintail

I've seen several local government owned/fleet Prius here

explorerx4

they bought them all on last year's budget, so they sat around until 2006. it is not a sales failure, though.

fintail

Yeah, I was just remarking I have seen then in non-private hands.

And knowing the agencies around here, the vehicles were purchased at MSRP.

chuck1959

Here in the City of Houston they use them too.

gagrice

it is not a sales failure, though.

I would not consider the Prius a failure. Just the other Toyota hybrids, both the RX400h and Highlander Hybrid are less than hits. If the Prius is sold to government agencies I would think that would add to the amount set as being eligible for a tax credit.

harrychezt

I dunno. Seems the Ford Fusion, while not a failure, sure is not selling in the numbers that G6 or Sonata(Virtually tied for 12th place for car sales,Sonata ahead by maybe a few hundred units, YTD). Fusion is 19th place.
The way the commericals are almost always on tv, and the hype.....one would figure it to be a top 10 by now.

What are Malibu numbers, btw, speaking of family sedans?

The new Hyundai Accent sales are Down(brand new version, been out about 3months now). Doing rather poorly.
Maybe due to all of these Yaris, Versa, Fit's coming out soon, and people holding off until they look at them?
Rio is in similar situation, yet, it is a decent little car.
Better than xA, IMHO.
I know this is for 05....and the 06's came out then, G6, Fusion, Sonata, too, so....whynot continue to now with the 06 models?
Anyhow,
All I know is Accent/rio aren't selling like they used to, Aveo is also down(for Chevy).
Fusion, selling ok, but no blockbuster like Ford hoped, I bet.

billingsley

I heard that GM is dropping the GTO after this year's run. Slow sales. It seems Pontiac can't get things right lately. I wonder if Pontiac will be another casualty when and if GM goes into bankruptcy.

chuck1959

I don't remember where I saw it. But I read that the GTO will be coming back on the new Camaro platform.

xwesx

You know, hybrids are very common here. Probably as common as most other places. I have many acquaintences who own the Prius and say that they perform very well, though fuel economy is only in about the mid-30s through the winter months (this is coming from friends who do not keep them in heated garages). I am convinced that the temperature extremes must be harsh on their $2,000+ batteries, but perhaps most of them just are not old enough yet to note the lifespan. Places like Florida, et. al., are probably worse as far as abnormally short battery life though.

I have seen many Escape hybrids up here, but do not know anyone with one, so I have no information on how they perform during the winter.

Just to note, we plug our vehicles into headbolt outlets in the winter when temps drop below zero (officially it is +20, but electricty is too expensive for that nonsense as far as I am concerned), so the cold's effect on a hybrid is fully dependent on where the owner has installed a heating pad. On my car, I have one on the oil pan, transmission pan, block, and under the battery.

ateixeira

Are they up to fully supply yet? In Automotive News I read dealers wanted more of them to sell.

RIP GTO.

-juice

rorr

"But I read that the GTO will be coming back on the new Camaro platform."

Um, isn't the natural Pontiac stablemate to the Camaro the Firebird? Historically, hasn't the GTO always been an intermediate with a big honkin' motor?

ateixeira

Perhaps they think the GTO would have less overlap in terms of target buyers. So they spread a wider net when fishing with 2 more distinct cars.

-juice

john_324

Exactly. Muscle cars/Pony cars are definitely a niche thing these days...I don't think there's enough market for a mid-size muscle-car. I also think since the GTO has 2 doors, it'll seem to be more of natural competitor with the Mustang/Camaro.

I doubt we'll ever see a full-sized muscle car that's a coupe again.

rorr

"So they spread a wider net when fishing with 2 more distinct cars."

I think I see what you're saying. Build a new GTO on the Camaro chassis but make it much more distinctive from the Camaro as opposed to a badge-engineered Firebird/TransAm. This way GM gets two distintly DIFFERENT cars for their Chevy/Pontiac dealers off of the same chassis.

And no Firebird to go with the Camaro. I wonder what GM is gonna do with all those old screamin' chicken hood decals left over from '76?

rockylee

Holden Commodore is a 4 door called Pontiac GTO instead of G8. Give the GTO(G8) retro styling like the next generation coupe was suppose to get. Shoot it worked for the Charger. It to was once a 2 door coupe.

Then build the new Camaro along with a premium retro Firebird that's upscale to the Camaro and we get real GMPD flavor that will make everyone happy. What I'd like to see is styling cues from the 1982 Trans-Am mixed in somehow.

Rocky

graphicguy

The GTO never did sell up to GM's expectations. GM had planned to sell 18K/year. They never got close to that mark. Even after Pontiac dropped the LS2 'vette motor in it in '05, sales declined, yet again.

On the used market, the GTO resale has been dismal. Partially, it's because GM rebated it quite a bit in it's original '04 iteration to move inventory. Part of it has more to do with "blah" styling. It "could have been a contendah". Instead, it turned into yet another GM whiff.

Long and short of it, it's been a "dud" for the general, who's had their fair share of duds recently.

That's really too bad. From what I've heard, GM's quality is the best it's ever been, for most of its cars. And, some of their new stuff looks intriguing ('07 Tahoe, Solstice/Sky, in particular).

Unfortunately, they don't have enough money to bring anything exciting to market other than their regular, plain vanila, bread and butter offerings of trucks, Malibus, etc.

Good design, performance, quality, sells cars. GM is still struggling with those facts.

anythngbutgm

For those who miss the Aztec and its styling cues, the Maxx makes a perfect alternative IMO.

imidazol97

styling is right on. I actually like it better than some of the foreign cars with similar design. Admit it, if it said Toyota on it (think tB) you'd think it was okay, wouldn't you. Or maybe Honda (think Element, Pilot, Ridgerunner) you'd think it was okay.

rorr

Well, I'm a Toyota/Honda fan and I'll tell you right now that IMO the Scion tB is one of the goofiest looks I've ever seen on an American road. Followed closely by the Honda Element and Ridgerunner.

I don't think the Pilot is too bad (a bit bland for an SUV).

I actually like the Malibu Maxx's styling better than any of those you listed. Surprised?

andre1969

have likened the Malibu Maxx to the 1983-86 Camry hatchback. I can see a resemblance. I really don't care for the Maxx, but it is pretty versatile, at least. And not something you see everyday. And could be uglier.

xwesx

I'll agree that the Ridgeline is a funky lookin' vehicle, but it sure does well what it was designed to do (a midsize family pickup for on-road use).

None of the major auto manufacturers have come close in recent years to the utter hideousness that is the Pontiac Aztek. :sick:

jlawrence01

have likened the Malibu Maxx to the 1983-86 Camry hatchback. I can see a resemblance

Reminds me of the AMC Concorde or the Chevy Citation.

anythngbutgm

Oh it's versitatile, I'll give it that. The sliding rear seat is a nice touch. But the lopped off tail end has Aztec styling IMO. And the Pug nose styling of the Aztec carried over to the Malibu as well. That at least got cleaned up for the 05' model.

Had this model been a Toyo, I'd be just as critical as I have in the past about the last Camry Wagon which was also no looker. The xB is dorky, I'll agree to that. Spacious for its size yes, but dorky, especially in stock hubcap form. The Ridge and Element are subjective. I like them both.

varmint

Too bad, because it is a decent car. I think it simply faced too much competition from the small SUVs. Chevy's own Equinox probably killed it. They have the same cargo space and passenger space, but more public awareness. The SUV craze ain't over yet.

gagrice

The SUV craze ain't over yet.

Not by a long shot. My neighbor just sold her E class MB and bought a Lexus LX470 behemoth. She felt vulnerable in the little Mercedes. Her words exactly.

ateixeira

That would have sold better, but I wonder if GM thought it would step on the toes of the CTS, maybe?

-juice

rockylee

I guess we'll see since the G8 is going to have the LS-2

The CTS will be most interesting....The CTS can seperate itself by offering gobs of electronic technology that the G8 wouldn't have.

Rocky

ateixeira

Will the G8 be FWD, though?

I think that makes a big difference in the character of the car, also in terms of market perception.

-juice

rockylee

Nope it's based on the RWD Holden Commadore

Rocky

ateixeira

Wow, bring it on...

-juice

gagrice

How about the Dodge Magnum?

I like the Magnum as well. My wife thought it was ugly. The Magnum is not selling as well as I thought it would. I just like the practicality of a wagon. If I am going to be stuck in a sedan, it will at least be a wagon. I really prefer driving a PU truck or Tahoe size SUV.

qbrozen

i'm also in the boat of really liking the Magnum, but having a wife who thinks its ugly.

Maybe that's a common story and explains its slow sales.

anythngbutgm

The Magnum is such a useful alternative to the big utes, it is amazing how slow the sales have been. There is nothing like it on the market unless you get into something like an E-class wagon or Audi Avant. Or head for the derided minivan selections...

john_324

I think the Magnum is just slightly ahead of its time. And by that I mean that we're still in the "SUV age," albeit at the tail end. Potential buyers look at the Magnum, and then look at the SUV choices out there, and say "as long as I'm going to get a big cargo vehicle, might as well just go all the way and get the ute." Old habits are hard to break.

I think the age of the station wagon will be in full effect in maybe 5 years or so. If the Magnum's still around, it'll probably sell much better then I bet.

au1994

I agree, I hope lackluster sales do not keep Dodge and other manufacturers from developing wagons.

The constant fluctuation of gas prices (mostly upward) will continue to drive some folks away from the SUV. Not all, as there are some with a legit need for a vehicle of that size, towing capability etc.

Personally, I would seriously consider replacing my 4Runner and its 17 mpg with a Subaru Outback or Forester. Yes, I'd give up some interior space, but for 23 mpg, a better ride and a less expensive car, its worth the compromise for my needs.

ubbermotor

How do we difine a flop? Who makes a better selling wagen? The Magnum is outselling the top sellers from Mercedes, Lincoln and Kia. Dodge sells more Magnums than BMW has sold both of its SUV's combined. So far, the Magnum is still outselling the "hot" selling Solstice. Is a full size wagon less of a specialty car than a roadster? As a rebodied Charger (or ><), how many do they have to sell to be profitable?

fintail

I see Magnums quite often out here (near Seattle)

andre1969

simply as something that fails to meet the maker's sales expectations by a wide margin. Or something that ends up getting such a bad reputation that, even if it sells well initially, ultimately the rap catches up to it and it gets dropped like a hot rock (or a Chevy Citation)

Now I have no idea what its sales goals are, but the Magnum sold 8,459 units in Jan/Feb combined, down from 10,315 in Jan/Feb of 2005. Now, January/February are usually somewhat down months in car sales, so maybe things will pick up. I'd imagine that they'd be on track to sell around 50-60,000 per year. I doubt if they ever anticipated selling much more than that.

I'd also imagine that, since the Charger came out, demand for Magnums might have suffered a bit. When the Intrepid was dropped, a lot of those buyers most likely bought 300's, although I'm sure some who still wanted a Dodge settled for a Magnum, even though they didn't really want a wagon. Now that the Charger's out, Dodge has a bit more direct of a replacement for the Intrepid.

Now that the Caliber is out, I could see Magnum sales dropping a bit more, as it's yet another choice in people who want a car, but versatile utility for cargo.

anythngbutgm

http://prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/03-01-2006- /0004311476&EDATE=

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/AUTO01/603050333/1148-

I have read elsewhere the Magnum supply is something like 120 days. Still not that bad though. Figure the Crossfire is at 330 days!!! :surprise:

anythngbutgm

A buddy of mine here at work bought on back in the fall. And SXT? model with the 2.7l, hubcaps, Auto, etc for 17k. Not a bad deal for what I percieve as an excellent alternative to a full size Tahoe/Expedition. I think I can drive my little convertible right into the back of it, it's huge back there!

BTW his Magnum has been flawless for the time he owned it except for a recall regarding the brakes. Nto a bad deal at all.

qbrozen

I'm not necessarily calling the Magnum a flop, because I honestly don't know the facts ...

but carsdirect still insists on MSRP for a 300C while I could get a Magnum RT through them for $300 over invoice.

I've only ever seen 2 on the road, and I drive ALOT.

Magnum is still outselling the "hot" selling Solstice.

At this point, as far as I know, that's mainly because production of the Solstice is still not up to the demand.

If Chrysler is happy with the sales, then GREAT. I hope they are and continue to produce it. I'm looking forward to finding a used one in the not-too-distant future.

andre1969

but I thought the SXT model had the 3.5? Personally I'd be a bit leery of something this big with the 2.7. My Intrepid has a 2.7, and I'm happy with it, but with the extra weight of the Magnum, plus I'm sure the RWD setup strains the engine a bit more than FWD. But for $17K it doesn't sound bad at all.

FWIW, back in 2004 I came into the dealer that sold me my Intrepid, because they were offering a barbeque utensil kit if you test-drove a Magnum. I drove an SXT model with the 3.5. It stickered for something like $26.2K, but right off the bat the salesman said that I could've gotten it for around $24K. And this was back when it was still a fairly new model!

anythngbutgm

So is the nomenclature ST then? I know he's a cheapskate because when he was shopping, he was looking for the almighty "bang for the buck" factor and the Magnum offered all the utility and Metal for the $$$. The vehicle replaced a 95' - 96' S10 flareside with a 2.2! 4 cylinder (I know it definitely was not a 2.8). I had no idea you could get a motor that small in a pickup but sure enough, that was what was in there. It was FAR from problem free, I do know that and it had about 100k when he sold it for a whopping 200 bucks.

ubbermotor

Really? I've seen 2 today, and I've just been down to the corner market (1 green and 1 cream). And theres a silver one that lives 2 blocks from here. I saw a black one the other day that was blinged out. Must be a regional thing.

qbrozen

Oh, it definitely is.

I do see ALOT of 300s, though. I've actually seen more Cayennes and Benz R-classes than Magnums or Chargers. Oh, and I've seen 3 Bentley GTs. It has alot to do with where I work, I think.