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Toyota Fearing Hyundai?
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I haven't asked this driver how he likes his car like I've done with some others. But I predict his answer will be that he loves it and has had no problems with it to make him regret having bought it.
re Toyota new engines: I hope they can engineer them better than the current problematic engine/software/transmission they currently are getting notariety from in their Camrys. I wonder if the line of problem through the car, ES/Avalon/Camry, propelled them to a redesign?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So much for the middle of the road status oldguy claimed to have... :mad:
Sorry, but I had to point that out. I had said I was done with the previous dialogue.
As for the China cars being shipped here, some would say that's inevitable just as clothing, shoes, TVs, and everything else has been imported by American companies to profit as they ruin our own industries. Some would say it's deserved by the auto industries; actually many DO SAY that in their posts.
I think we need to take a middle of the road approach and watch to see what happens.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If the situation I've revealed in post 1173 comes to pass, it isn't going to matter much what car you think looks better.
Furthermore your well known and oft repeated dislike for Toyota won't really matter much either.
Neither will being cynical about my middle of the road positions.
The China situation is a real threat, and I'll make no middle road statements on that account.
It's happening as we speak, friend.
Neither should you berate others about it if you hope to see a sustainable manufacturing sector in our future!
Something to think about?
Or is this not your thing?
Your responses keep sounding familiar like someone else's postings on edmunds. do you have an alter ego that you post under? This account opening on May 11; why would you say my "well-known and oft-repeated dislike"? That would be something a long term member might have an opinion (their opinion) about but not a newby.
Like I said if your first post were middle-of-the-road, then I'm proHoToy... Actually I'm middle of the road. You'll find I'm very open to different brands when shopping. I don't tolerable bad salesrooms and dealerships with their selling attitudes that are ripoffs of uninformed buyers. I have shopped all reasonable alternatives when I was ready for my last 3 purchases including HOToy and couldn't find a reason then to purchase a smaller, under-powered vehicle to get equivalent fuel mileage to the V6s that I chose for ME and my driving. I have posted frequently about the attitudes of salespeople and stores selling them that _I_ experienced. I found again there was no reason to buy them.
I sat in a neighbor's brother's Toyota Camry. He wanted me to see how great the leather seats, white, were. I was under impressed. The plastic interior looked cheap and parts didn't fit well. The design on that model was cheapo. The car was a bright red (a plus for me) and the interior was white. Not nice because the light colors showed off the imperfections in fit and design.
I thought about my leSabres and their interiors and the Sonata and Azera I had checked out at the Hyundai deal about 3 miles away a few months ago. I couldn't see the big deal of the Camry. Now a Toyot Lexus, a real Lexus not the Camry addons, might be assembled better. I'll stop by that deal later in the month when I have some time to shop.
As for the Chinese import challenge I actually agree that it's a major concept that's possible. I've said that as soon as they've eliminated US brand companies, the foreign companies will start moving their production to other countries and bring the cars back. Your clip is saying we can look forward to Toyota of China importing the Camry of the future because it will be much cheaper than building part of their cars in Kentucky and even Indiana at the plant there...
Looks like we just disagree on other things, oldguy70. Have a good day.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As is your oft professed dislike for all things Toyota. (All I did was look up your profile with the last dozen or so posts all with the same message, BTW)
I guess some folks prefer playing violins and hanging out at coffee/cappuchino shops, doing the armchair quarterback thing.
OK by me!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You and I agree on that issue. Where will that leave Toyota? Toyota has not done well with its operations in China. There is real apprehension on the part of the Chinese to accept the Japanese manufacturers. That is why GM and VW are one and two in China.
"Gee, honey, should I buy a Rival, Procter-Silex, or GE toaster?" Does it really matter? They're all junk just like all cars would be in that situation.
And they'll all be the same toaster with a different outer layer. Magazines will continue to argue over which toaster does the best 0-60 time and handles better on a slalom course when in reality they're the same toaster.
Look at the refrigerators and dishwashers sold today. They are the same layout inside in many brands because they're from the same manufacturer.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have and most are made in South Korea. We like the refrigerators built by LG the best. Most of the GE brands are made in Mexico.
The TV announcer says, "The Maytag Repairman sure is busting his butt these days!"
The sad thing there is both companies are owned by the same corporation!
Whirlpool and Maytag
Conceptually it is the same thing, though I imagine the implementation will be different. Nissan also went for direct valve control on the VQ37HR, presumably without the high-rpm difficulties that BMW had.
Look at the pet food recall - high end and low end stuff was all being made in the same factory - mostly you were paying for the "name."
Parts is parts. :shades:
One of my favorite sayings.
If you look carefully, you can tell which parts are made in the same factory. Lawn tractors, ag tractors, tools, appliances, and on and on. I really laugh at salesmen that claim their clothes dryer is better than brand X, when I know they came from the same factory.
Yes, Toyota and the rest should fear China, but that's a few years off yet. However, it's not something the consumer should fear. Just as (I guess) Hundai had a slight effect on Toyota's pricing, the Chinese cars will force the leaders to rein in their prices.
Eventually, if an automaker is not producing cars in China for China, in India for India, etc. then they are going to be in trouble. I don't think Hyundai or Toyota is going to disappear anytime soon. Hyundai has to get the strikes in Korea (another looming next week) as well as their workers pay (Korean autoworkers last year made more than UAW workers) or they'll continue to lose billions. They lost $1.8 billion last year over strikes and their sales were flat only because of this. Toyota is simply not as susceptible whether anyone likes it or not.
I thought value was Hyundai's game?
DrFill
http://www.watchmojo.com/cars/blog/?p=260
Unless Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus had a time machine that never happened.
That out of the way I agree on taking a middle of the road approach. China might be a big threat or it may be the next Yugo. With that in mind I would watch them and make contingency plans just in case but other than that watch them.
Who knows in ten years all the Yugo jokes will be Chery jokes.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
“The Azera and Sonata are both excellent examples of Hyundai’s commitment to outstanding quality, standard life-saving safety technologies and unbeatable value,” said John Krafcik, vice president of Strategic Planning and Product Development, Hyundai Motor America. “It’s rewarding that Kiplinger’s recognized both sedans for their segment leadership.”
"Unbeatable value" as in, Sonata is the best value in its class (better than Camry), and Azera is the best value in its class (better than Avalon), according to Kiplinger's:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/abouthyundai/news/2007_03_05/2007_03_05.aspx
Or how about cars.com calling the Accent the best value compared to the Yaris and Fit?
http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGuides/Story.jsp?section=Passenger&story=cc_subCompacts&subject=stories&year=New
Just some examples to show that "value" is subjective, and not universally defined.
Didn't know Hyundai was such an inspiration! My sales chart must be inverted!
This 10% increase next to Toyota must surely belong to Hyundai, because you is my inspiration.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, since you have the business accumen among us, but if Toyota goes up 10% every year, might they be underpriced?
That flatline noise I hear everytime Hyundai sends a sales press release must be a computer malfunction? (Whack!) :lemon:
Hyundai couldn't really be overpriced, could they? Since they are such a super value, and since there is some excuses.....I mean.....misfortune that has caused 18 months of stagnation in market share.
Maybe the way to get this ship moving is to......target BMW and Lexus! I have complete confidence in their abilities to threaten Nissan, Honda, or Toyota.
Instead of going to the GM School of Marketing, why not come up with a campaign GM hasn't already failed with, like a new slogan!
How about "Driving Excitement!". What....it's....oh
I trust Hyundai will think of something....
Warranties (Strike One). Lower Prices (Strike Two).
They're innocent I tell you. Innocent!
You know, it's funny. Is inspiration standard equipment at Hyundai? It makes for strange, and troubled, bedfellows (Chrysler).
Wait a minute! I feel.....suddenly....all inspired!
So inspired that.....I need to drive a Hyundai Tiburon, to the mall, right now!
Get that &%$@ 'Vette away from me!! I Gotta go! :shades:
Vroom!
DrFill
Face the music, I can get more car for less money in Hyundai than I can with a Toyota. Heck for the same price as a base Camry V6 I can get a fully loaded Sonata V^ which includes stuff the Camry doesn't have like standard stability control and traction control, not to mention the warranty. Heck for the price of a top of the line Camry I can get a fully loaded Azera. Why should I get a Toyota over a Hyundai then?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And my #2: For a Hyundai person to pick on Toyota for being dull is quite an astute observation.
Like a pot calling a pot a pot!
DrFill
I am wondering what would happen to Toyota's sales if their prices went up, say, 10-20%. Do you suppose that would cause any drag on sales? That is basically what has happened at Hyundai over the past year or so; prices are going up significantly as they roll out new designs and reduce incentives. Increasing profit per car at the expense of flattened sales volume in the near term. Some would see this as a sign of weakness. Others would see it as a calculated sales strategy to move the brand up-market and prosper in the long run; something that Hyundai had to do as it works to raise its brand image.
You haven't answered my question, why should I buy a camry when I can get a Sonata with more to it for less? Why won't you answer it?
Tell me why would "smart money" pay more to get less?
As for your claim to tell where the smart money lies, as an accountant and financial advisor I can tell you that "smart money" lies at the feet of very few people.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
DrFill
Seeing that I can get a fully equipped top of the line Sonata V6 for the same price that a base Camry V6 runs why would I get a Camry over the Sonata? You mentioned smart money which car would smart money buy? The one with much more equipment for the same price or the one with a lot less?
I think we all know the answer to this one don't we?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hyundai is for discriminating buyers I would say.
Toyota has done a good job with their 100s of millions in advertising. They even have some people believing they are a Green car maker. Toyota has proven the power of advertising can overcome a mediocre product line. Toyota is to the automobile what McDonald's is to the hamburger. Billions sold.
McDonalds does NOT make the best burger, they just sell more because of their numerous stores and their ubiquitous advertising. Smart consmers go a little off the beaten path and get a better burger for about the same price. Indecisive herd followers that are too lazy to look around settle for McDonalds.
If you make a list of the top 10 reasons to buy a car, "Sales" should never be on the list. Buying something because it sells big is nothing more than blind herd following, which is the WORST reason to buy anything.
Per Hyundai, you're probably getting 7/8 Camry for 2/3 price. How are Hyundai sales personnel? Toyota sales personnel are like sharks in a pool with a wounded seal.
1. Solid and reliable
2. Competent
3. Dull and boring
4. Lack soul or passion
5. More of an isolation chamber than a driver's car
For an enthusiast, there was not much to recommend at that time, or now for that matter. But for the general buying public, Toyota made the car that was the "appliance" they were looking for and rode that philosophy to the top. Not unlike the road Hyundai and a few others are attempting to follow right now.
The Supra was the only Toy that ever turned my crank! Would Toyota ever sell enough of them to justify their return?
New Triple Cheese Burger for $1.99! Sweet!
Since I answered Weasel's question in a earlier post, to answer the next inquiry, why is it sales, sales, sales, well.....that's how we keep score.
Toyota has become the Tiger Woods of automaking. Whether you like it, or don't like it, learn to love it. :shades:
Hyundai can be Sergio Garcia. Lot of talent, but +7 on the front nine at The Open.
He's comin' right back, doh!
DrFill
"Try it you WILL like it".
Isn't that what killed Dave Thomas the man who started Wendy's. Too much fat not enough of the good stuff. Good analogy for Toyota.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
DrFill
Or maybe put the base model Azera(24K?), up against maybe lower-mid-range Accord/Camry of similar prices?
I am also cuious about this All Suzuki Built Verona coming out next year(no GM-DAT involved).
I did look it up... I will have to wait to 4 years paid off to get around even, or make a few dollars, on trade-in.
Makes me wait, but that may be a good thing?
Look 4ward to seeing the new: Corolla, tC,SX4 sedan this fall,maybe Astra 3 door in Nov,and possibly the next gen, all Suzuki built(as mentioned above in my last post)Verona(if it is built as well as the in-laws 8 month old SX4 CUV...may buy one!) or maybe a Versa( spouse not liking this car, plus our 97 200sx was bad... at65K, needed a rebuilt starter,ignition coil issues, timing chain gear, etc, and the dealership was horrible...they are out of business now, new owners, and moved across town. They seem decent, the people I met there 2 weeks ago).
But, until then, I wait