Toyota Fearing Hyundai?

drfill

I ask some of the customers what other car they might consider, they say two things, this is the first car I looked at, and Honda comes up one way or another. Nissan on occassion. Haven't heard much Hyundai at all.

It's not really important what they might consider. I know I have one shot to show them what car is the best vehicle to move your family with, and when they leave, whether they buy or not, they will think a Toyota is a wise investment. That's all I can do.

DrFill

joe97

You obviously didn't understand the point of those ads. Try looking up the defn. for tongue-in-cheek.

Backy, the new ads from the newly appointed agency have not appeared yet, to my knowledge.

joe97

If you don't think Toyota vehicles are being cross-shopped with Hyundais and other competing vehicles, then you might as well lived in the stone age.

When someone says Hyundai vehicles are just as good as Toyotas, that is a FACT.

Accent vs. Yaris
Elantra vs. Corolla
Sonata vs. Camry
Azera vs. Avalon
Tiburon vs. ??? (Scion tC?)
BH vs. ??? (Lexus GS)
Tucson vs. ???
Santa Fe vs. RAV4
Veracruz vs. Highlander / Lexus RX

--------

Customer: Why doesn't Camry offer standard ESC?
Drfill: Did you see it's a Toyota?

dsirias

I cross shopped. I drove a Corolla, Mazda3 and the new Elantra. Personally the Mazda and the Elantra were way ahead of the Corolla. But the Mazda was loud, had a tiny backseat, and though the most fun to drive, I would have had to pay mid-size car price to get he grand touring. By contrast I thought the Elantra was most quiet of them all, large back seat room, almost as good mpg than Corolla, had a superb stereo on the Limited, plus a nicer shifter, and beautiful console with the blue lights. Though not the most pretty car on the outside(I liked the looks of the old Elantra better) it was a nice package at a fantastic price.

Ultimately, Hyundai falls a bit short to Toyota only in MPG, and nothing else at this juncture. (I've owned a Santa Fe for many years, which replaced my Camry) If Hyundai gets on-par with fuel efficiency, that's when a real battle will begin.

bpizzuti

I don't hear it at Toyota, so why would a Lexus guy hear it there?

Let me know which dealer you work at. I'll make sure you hear it all the time. :P

drfill

If your satnce is plenty of people compare Sonata to Camry, then you can't be thrilled with 10k sales vs. 50k for Camry. You can't spin that into any kind of positive.

I see Sonata commercials daily. As much as Tundra commercials. Just don't see the sales records like Tundra is getting. :surprise:

Por que? That's right. Buyers drive both, and stupidly buy the inferior Camry.

Right.

DrFill

drfill

Please don't. If I see another Kia/Hyundai negative equity dump, I'll scream! :mad:

Ford's right across the street!

DrFill

snakeweasel

Oh.....OK.....that explains that. Just call all the Camry buyers dumb.

Not calling anyone dumb but I have to question paying more for less.

snakeweasel

Hey, who says a Toyota salesperson can't respect the competition!

Well I can say that I was talking to a Toyota salesman in a Toyota dealership who readily admitted that Toyota doesn't have that much over the competition.

backy

So in part of an afternoon we've gone from Hyundai never being mentioned at your dealership, to not hearing much mention of Hyundai. Maybe those new ads are having some effect!

I don't want to start a sales clinic here, but there are several reasons why you want to know what other vehicles your customer is considering. Maybe think about it a little, before the big sales rush tomorrow.

bpizzuti

How about a positive-equity Mazda?

w9cw

DrFill - Folks like me are your worst nightmare as a customer. Never finance a car, and keep it 20 years . . . that's what I do, and given that paradigm, who cares what the resale or residual value is. As many have said, resale and residual value - and, being upside-down - have absolutely no meaning if you pay cash for your new vehicle and keep it one to two decades.

Methinks we need a corresponding Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Mazda, and Nissan salesperson on this forum to keep things on an even keel from the ongoing and continuous Toyota marketing onslaught from DrFill.

gagrice

I think we had a Hyundai salesman on here for a bit. He is probably too busy selling cars to hang out on the Forum all day. I would be interested in the volume of sales by dealership. How many Toyota dealers vs Hyundai dealers. Or how many cars sold per salesman would be a good statistic.

stever

I usually drive mine for ten years or more too (my record so far is the Toyota Tercel that I drove for 17 years).

Resale is an issue in the first three or four years if you get in a wreck and the car is totaled. Gap insurance can help I guess.

goodegg

I think we had a Hyundai salesman on here for a bit. He is probably too busy selling cars to hang out on the Forum all day.

Not too busy selling Sonatas apparently. 11,000 units a month? How do you spin that Backy?

snakeweasel

For the most part resale value is a non issue for me and should be for most people. The most fiscally responsible thing to do is to buy a car and drive it until it costs more to upkeep it than to replace it (in time and money).

FWIW my experience is that for the most part the cars with higher resale value cost more to begin with so any benefit in resale value is lost right from the start.

snakeweasel

I wonder how many Toyotas out there have negative equity in them? More than you would think. Negative equity is more a result of poor fiscal choices not in the resale value of the car.

snakeweasel

Good point, if Toyota is so hot how come a Toyota salesman has so much time to spend on the internet?

When I was in sales I spent my down time trying to bring in new sales.

snakeweasel

I keep hearing this 11K a month sales figure, does anyone have a decent link for that?

tenpin288

Here's a link to Hyundai's USA press site

Hyundai USA News

You can find Hyundai's sales figure there.

snakeweasel

Looks like sales are a bit on the upswing.

backy

What are HMA's sales targets for the Sonata?

What are HMA's sales targets for the Santa Fe?

What is the capacity of the Alabama plant (sources Sonatas and Santa Fes for the U.S.)?

With answers to questions like those, we can see if 11k Sonatas a month is a really poor number, as you imply, or not.

hyusubiesales

why don't we jump off of the sonata sales for a minute, and go one step down for a minute. i don't know the volume between the corrolla and the elantra, but hell, I sold 13 Elantra's out of 20 hyundai's last month... over 50% of total store sales were elantra also. i think the reason we are not selling enough sonata's right now is merely the lack of a 4cylinder in all 3 trim levels. that issue will be resolved in the 2008 model. now dr fill, mr propaganda man, i have to tell you, toyota is in for a heap of trouble in the next couple of years. every customer i have ever had that i could sit down in front of a computer to show them the comparison between hyundai, honda, toyota, NO MATTER WHAT MODEL, has bought the hyundai. If they didn't they would feel like idiots walking away from me.

bobad

and when they leave, whether they buy or not, they will think a Toyota is a wise investment. That's all I can do.

You're kidding, right? Surely you know that cars are not wise investments. In fact, they are horrible investments. That proves your customers are not very bright, and you have no scruples. What kind of "investment" loses its value immediately after buying it, and continues to lose value throughout its life?

goodegg

Looks like sales are a bit on the upswing.

Dropping to 12,000 Sonatas in May 07 from 17,000 in May 06 is an upswing to you?

snakeweasel

lets see

Jan '07 7,276
Feb '07 12,137
Mar '07 10,584
Apr '07 10,434
May '07 12,147

Looks like they are going up to me.

drfill

acYou can invest time on your property to produce a garden, or a tree house.

Or emotion and energy to produce a relationship.

Do you not invest time, energy, and financial resources when you buy, and maintain, a car?

A car is an ivestment alright, just not one designed to produce a profit, but to produce reliable service.

Hyundai Sonata has not earned a reputation for reliable service, in relative terms.

No one has to ask me, it's not for me to decide.

But since you did, I'll tell you what you already know.

There can only be one #1. And it's name is not Hyundai Sonata.

Hyundai has won some awards. So has Ford. Shouldn't Toyota "fear" Ford just as much, probably more?

I'm catching Goose Bumps! :surprise:

If, after all this time, you question my veracity, then word usage is not your only issue. :sick:

DrFill

snakeweasel

Try living without one and you will find out how good of an investment it is.

snakeweasel

Hyundai Sonata has not earned a reputation for reliable service, in relative terms.

I will say this, my Elantra has been far more reliable than any Toyota my sister has ever had.

My wifes Accent has been far more reliable than any Toyota my sister has ever had.

My daughters Elantra has been far more reliable than any Toyota my sister has ever had.

And my sister has had many a Toyota.

Just remember that reputation and reality are most times two completly different things.

bobad

Only a car salesman can give goosebumps to himself!

Very well, let's talk about our cars as an "investment". First, you find a car that fits your needs. You buy it as low as possible, spend as little on it as possible during ownership, and sell it as high as possible when it no longer fits your needs. In my case, that will be 10 years.

I think it would be very tough to beat the "investment" I made. I guess the return on my investment will be only about -$1500 per year. And that's not even counting the interest on the $6K I saved up front.

gagrice

There can only be one #1

Number one would be whom? Not Toyota, not Camry. In America GM is still number one & Ford number two. Camry is 3rd in sales behind Silverado & F150. At least with GM you don't have to look over your shoulder. See that dust cloud way out in front of your sales office. That is GM selling 28% more vehicles than Toyota in the Largest market in the World. Selling tin cans with a rubber band for power in 3rd world countries may be your idea of what cars should be. It is not that way in the USA.

Here's a WSJ excerpt:

"The results also demonstrate the challenge the U.S. economy poses to more-successful Asia-based competitors like Toyota Motor Corp., which posted its first monthly U.S. sales decline in nearly two years.

You better get out on that lot and sell some trucks today.

backy

There can only be one #1. And it's name is not Hyundai Sonata.

I am scratching my head as to why a Toyota salesman would want to turn the discussion here to the Honda Accord. :confuse:

goodegg

I'll try this again. Dropping from 17,000 to 12,000 is going up? Plus your dodge around my question about dwindling 2007 Sonata sales has revealed some paltry sales numbers for that car. I guess with those numbers, up is the only way to go.

10,000 units in March, and then again in April? For the car that's supposed to be the CamCord conqueror? Ouch.

I think they sold that many Sebrings in those months.

joe97

Dropping to 12,000 Sonatas in May 07 from 17,000 in May 06 is an upswing to you?

Has drfill been rubbing off on you? Sales aren't everything; they don't tell you the whole story. There are whole lot of areas where you have little knowledge about.

The YOY comparison had much to do with a Hyundai's (specifically designed) fleet program on the Sonata, which ran for a good part of 06. The purpose was to get as many "butts" into the Sonata as possible, in Hyundai official's words, or something to that effect

If you want to talk about sales comparison with history, then the current Sonata sales are way up over last generation, which, if I recall, rarely broke the 10K mark in many months.

By the way, talking about fleet, Toyota's way up in that department, and incentives and lease rates too ($199 already on the hot-selling Camry?). Those are things you would never hear from our good friend drfill

joe97

Hyundai Sonata has not earned a reputation for reliable service

Try passing that off to the industry professionals and see how far you'd get. As a matter of fact, the reliability of the Sonata is one of the most important factors/attributes which made inroads for the Sonata (and Hyundai) into the NA market.

My neighbor has a 98 Sonata V6, over 150K miles (at least, I saw 150K the last time I was in his car), runs just as new and have had a very few problems. So contrary to your belief, Hyundai can make reliable cars, just like Toyota and other automakers; Hyundai has lemons, just like Toyota and other automakers.

There can only be one #1. And it's name is not Hyundai Sonata.

I am sorry to say but it isn't the Camry either. See the best car is not always the most sold car, and in this case, that holds true. Based on my observations (talking with various owners) and first-hand experience, there are tons of fantastic family sedans. The Accord takes a slight edge, especially if there was no budget constraints - something we know isn't true, as price sensitivities are very much the case in this class and those lower, since most buyers are average working Americans. Anyway, the rest (e.g. Sonata, Fusion) are just as competitive and aren't far behind, very close, actually, with or without budget constraints.

snakeweasel

I'll try this again.

So will I:

Jan '07 7,276
Feb '07 12,137
Mar '07 10,584
Apr '07 10,434
May '07 12,147

Looks like they are going up to me.

Plus your dodge around my question about dwindling 2007 Sonata sales has revealed some paltry sales numbers for that car.

Didn't dodge anything May was the best month this year for Sonata sales and is up something like 70-75% over 18 months ago. You can't take one point in history and compare it to another point and make a conclusion. Look at the tend.

stever

If y'all want to discuss car salespeople, take it over to Smart Shopper, where there are several discussions that focus on the business of selling cars.

goodegg

You can't take one point in history and compare it to another point and make a conclusion.

Why not? Cause the conclusion doesn't fit your viewpoint or assertion. 12,000 units is the best ever? Whoa. Toyota is fearing that?


Look at the tend.

Huh?

drfill

It's been about 3 years since GM had a 28% share. Check out this 2002 story:
http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudgeon/48483/article.html

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

One thing I don't have to worry about is selling Toyotas. I'll sell 'em. Fast. Only question is can you overcome your negative equity on your Chrysler/Ford/Hyundai to buy it? :confuse:

DrFill

gagrice

12,000 units is the best ever?

No, they sold 17k in May of 06. Remember all the excuses from Toyota people when the Camry was down near the end of the model cycle. When will the new Sonata be out? That will give a better indication of sales. It will take at least a couple years for all the problems to catch up with Toyota. It will be interesting on this thread to hear the excuses if Toyota sales continue their downward trend. Do I see a lot more Corollas and Camry's and Prius on the rental lots? I think I do.

drfill

Can you substantiate these flights of fantasy, or is this a daydream for our benefit?

Corolla set a record last month, a 30+ year record, and Camry had it's second best month ever. :shades:

I hope demand does go down, 'cus I'm running out of product to sell!

DrFill

gagrice

Toyota has 16% or the US market, GM has 22% of the US market. That is 27.3% more vehicles sold by GM than Toyota from my calculations. Toyota may have made more profit on their sales. Further proof Toyota vehicles are over priced. The competition from Hyundai will be nipping at your heels.

No negative equity when you pay cash and keep the car till it drops dead. That is the ECO-Friendly way to own a car.

drfill

May have?

Sorry to trump your card, but THE Eco-friendly way is to roll in a Prius.

Can't beat that.

DrFill

gagrice

Not my story. Wall Street Journal said Toyota sales were 4.3% off from last year in the USA. I just copied from online.

Toyota's sales in April fell 4.3% from April 2006, according to Autodata Corp. Ernest Bastien, a U.S. Toyota executive, said consumers appear "tentative" and are exhibiting a "wait-and-see" attitude.

snakeweasel

Why not?

Because of peaks and valliy's in trends. You pick a point that has a peak (or whatever reason) then compare it to another point where there isn't a peak then its not a very good comparison. You have to watch trends. I can just as easily say compare may of 2007 to may of 2005 and see that there is an increase of over 4,000 units.

Cause the conclusion doesn't fit your viewpoint or assertion. 12,000 units is the best ever?

When did I say 12,000 units is the best ever? The answer to that is that I never said any such thing I just said that it looks like the sales are a bit on the upswing. Which they are.

Huh?

Its trend, it was a typo and you should be smart enough to figure that out (well then again). One spot in time doesn't tell the whole story you need to look at trends. Like whats the 6 month moving average? or the 12 month or the 16 month? Those will tell a whole different story.

snakeweasel

Sorry to trump your card, but THE Eco-friendly way is to roll in a Prius.

Sorry but the more I read about it the more I hear that the Prius is not the most eco-friendly way to roll. Many of the materials are far less eco-friendly to produce than a conventional ICE. And disposal/recycling isn't as eco-friendly either.

gagrice

Here is an interesting point of discussion.

Hyundai claimed they could have sold more if they could produce enough 4 cylinder Sonata models. That gets the big bronx cheer from the Toyota crowd.

It was only a month ago when the Tundra sales were lagging that the resident sales force used a very similar excuse. They claimed they did not get enough of the CrewMax models that everyone wanted.

gagrice

The question that has to be asked is: Can every part of the hybrid be built in the USA under our EPA regulations. If not their is a problem with the environmental aspect of that piece of equipment. There is a reason the batteries are being manufactured elsewhere and it it not just labor costs.

Second: If you are one to keep a vehicle 15-20 years as I am, will you face huge repair bills even though the car has low mileage?

snakeweasel

If you are one to keep a vehicle 15-20 years as I am, will you face huge repair bills even though the car has low mileage?

I would say yes you will. When you get to that age time can play a much bigger role in breakdowns than miles can. With the more complex drivetrain that a hybrid has that only makes it even more expensive.

Secondly even if you don't have a lot of miles on it time will wear down the batteries and thats a big dollar expense to replace.

drfill

An SULEV car (70% fewer emissions), that uses half the gas of other cars, even reuses heat energy from the brakes to power the battery, is state-of-the-art in being earth-friendly in my book.

If you know of a more conscientious new vehicle, please let us know.

DrFill