By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Am I close?
The question is how much a customer is (I am) willing to pay for that extra power, amenities and luxury (comfort, quality of interior material, craftsmanship, electronic toys, etc.). I would like to stay away from Toyota for their sales/marketing tactics. Heck, I am not too thrilled about the minivan either, in the 1st place. If it provides 6+ seating, ample storage behind 3rd row (for stroller/baby stuff) at a reasonable price, I might buy an Enclave, too. It has the warranty midway between the 2, and I am willing to let go of the power sliding doors for a higher driving position. Just that right now no one has the combo I am looking for in an Enclave (CXL, articulating headlights and no sunroof).
DrFill
270 HP on a MINIVAN...jeez....
So now the only difference between a minivan and a crossover SUV with 3rd row is the sliding rear door? I was thinking so myself, but just asking the experts...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Why does Toyota charge twice as much or more for XM than other car makers?
Am I close?
So I stated one of my perference when shopping for cars (e.g. safety) and facts from IIHS and NHTSA, you assumed I like Hyundai/Kia vans, and HATE everything else.
I will say this: most of the vans on the market today are very competitive. Just safety is at the top of my list.
Still, vans are just not for me period. Probably years down the road I might consider (once I have larger family). I was simply making an observation, which is why I said, "If I was in the market for one".
FYI - my current and past vehicles (in alpha order): Audi, Acura, BMW, Chevy, Ford
Obvious because they chose 3 other vans, including a Hyundai and twin Kia, ahead of the Sienna? ROFL. Odyssey isn't exactly a wimp in the power department, nor are the Hyundai/Kia vans.
Because Toyota sells more cars?
It's a matter of being consistent, and being patient.
As Edmunds has said, their cars are good, but they seem to have benchmarked vehicles that have since been redesigned. Hence a five-year lag.
DrFill
Naah, it's probably because the Toyota brand XM is higher quality, with more power, more standard features, and higher resale value. :shades:
If Hyundai has benchmarked cars that have since been redesigned, how does that explain that the new-for-2001 Elantra bested the new-for-2003 Corolla, or that the 2006 Accent bested the 2006 Yaris, or the 2006 Azera bested the 2006 (2007?) Avalon, or that the 2007 Santa Fe is considered very close to the 2006 RAV4? Doesn't seem like a five-year lag to me. Except for Toyota's part, as it is now finally trying to top the Elantra with its 2009 Corolla. Maybe it will top the Accent and Azera with the next Yaris and Avalon also. As you said, it's a matter of being patient.
Oh, I forgot... as far as Toyota is concerned, comparisons don't matter.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am just pointing out that there seems to be a double standard here.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A few things, the extra power to weight ratio isn't that much and the majority of the drivers of mini vans would not notice a thing between the two.
The gas mileage difference is 1 MPG which for all intents and purposes is the same between the two vans.
As for towing, have you ever seen a mini van tow anything?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think its Motor Trend. On newstands now for your enjoyment!
This "couple" didn't meet me on that fateful day. A pity. I am only one man.
One damn handsome man.
DrFill
Nice try, doh.
DrFill
Hyundai Motor Co. USA (8 Vehicles): 43,885
Or
Toyota Corolla May 2007: 45,005
Hyundai Elantra Jan-May 2007: 40,315 (Down 3,000)
DrFill
I would agree if you are comparing a 170 HP van against a 250 HP van but not when comparing these two cars. Each additional 1HP increase gives you less benefit that the preceding increase of 1HP, this is called the law of diminishing return.
Once you get above a certain amount of HP the upper limits are rarely if ever get used, especially in a mini van. My daily drive has a lot less power to weight than either of the mini vans being discussed yet 99% of the time I can keep up with accelerating traffic without breaking a sweat and the only times I am not doing the flow of traffic at the end of the on ramp is when someone ahead of me not going fast enough.
Face it the added HP is all but useless and just a marketing tool.
This "couple" didn't meet me on that fateful day.
Even if they did they would have bought the Hyundai anyways. These are smart people and would have seen your crap long time ago.
Also FWIW more power tends to cause a lower fuel efficiency.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I read the MT review. This is the same magazine that, a short time ago, scored the same Elantra higher than the Sentra in their COTY comparo, and said of the Elantra, "Hyundai has taken a credible shot at the class-leading Honda [note: they didn't say Corolla] with a piece that offers much of its goodness for less money." Kind of confusing.
Oops. My bad. Good ole Honda pokin' its head into the wrong room. Was inevitable tho.
How smart could they be? Who you tryin' to kid? Did they get the Limited?
Limited passenger room, Limited cargo room, limited options (can't even get Nav, much less AWD or Power 3rd row seats), limited power, lower fuel economy, and it may set a record for lowest resale value (worth less after 3 years than a 5-year-old Sienna).
Look, I'm not sayin' Hyundai builds crappy cars. It may not be crap now, but.......oh damn....they drove it off the lot?!?
Oh well, they better bust out the Air Wick, 'cus they'll be in there for a long time. :P
They didn't buy anything. They got sold. Cross them off the Mensa Prospects list.
DrFill
Would you settle for "Virtual" AWD?
wwest, "Toyota 4WD systems explained" #1087, 25 Apr 2003 2:12 pm
In other words, beats me!
Apparently very smart as they got the van they needed and saved a bunch of money. Would paying more for the same be smart? I think not.
Limited cargo room,
By only about 6-8 cubic feet, not a whole lot.
limited options
Limited in what options? Anything that really matters?
can't even get Nav
Sure spend thousands for something that is practically useless. How many times does the average person actually need a nav system. I would guess that once in my life I actually needed a nav system but a stop top ask directions saved me the thousands that a nav system would have cost.
For those who actually need a nav system I suggest forgoing the factory installed ones and going to wally world and spending one fifth the cost for a Garin (or like product) that you can transfer from one vehicle to another.
much less AWD
You know I have spent my entire life living either in the upper midwest or Alaska and I have only driven FWD or RWD and had no issues.
lower fuel economy
Again the fuel economies are basically the same.
and it may set a record for lowest resale value
Again you may get more for the Toyota but you pay more for it to begin with so where is the savings? Sorry but I don't want to spend 5 grand more top have a car worth 4 grand more 5 years from now, it doesn't make sense.
Look, I'm not sayin' Hyundai builds crappy cars.
Yes you are, you cannot admit that Hyundai makes as good a car as anyone else (including Toyota) and they cost less. As soon as people start realizing the reality of the situation you will need a new job.
Oh well, they better bust out the Air Wick, 'cus they'll be in there for a long time.
Yep since Hyundai makes good reliable cars they can keep it a long time. Hey my Hyundai is 8 years old with more that 140K miles on it and is still going strong. No need to get rid of a car thats running with no trouble.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
On resale: Just take your 2 year old Sienna into any Toyota dealer and get the shock of your life on a trade-in. You will not get crap for it. The only place you see high resale prices are on the used car lots. Anyone that buys a car based on resale is not familiar with the way the system works.
Last Summer, August, to be exact.... went to Hyundai to get a Window gasket replaced under warranty. I was hovering around the showroom(it was an hour job/wait).
A couple was looking at the minivan(btw, it is Kia's... they did have it out first, and Hyundai just tweaked it for their uses)anyhow, long story short; I told them down the road, Kia had their Sedona for 2,000 less, on sale now.
They left and went to Kia(I left 20 minutes later).
Either 1 of the sales staff, or maybe the sales mgr, overheard this conversation...
because as soon as I walekd out the door to the service center, to pick up my car, this service mgr came out, introduced himself, and got into my face(basically, although he was biting his lip, "being nice" to me).
He asked me if I had a problem(hated my car, saiud he would give me a newer one and a good deal, because I was there 2 times in 2 months or window issues)....
I said not really(our Scion tC had issues to, with wiper blade arms not working, at the time)....
Then he said why did I tell those people ot go to Kia!
I said we were talking, and I told them of the SALE(he had Edmunds print outs, but this was the dealership's own deal, using money given to them by Kia,to use however, to move minivans, it appeared..Big ,2000-2,500 off Sedona's sign out front when I drove by).
He said something else( and I kind of gave him a polite brush-off, said I must be going)... went back a few times for tune up, once, oil change, etc...
and I just avoid the showroom.
I felt like telling the guy" Hyundai makes $$$$ off of Kia sales, too!",(just not his dealership).
The people had a 92 Honda minivan, and were trading it in.
They did not care for the nearly 30K MSRP on the minivan(I was nearby, hearing the salesman say"we can't really discount, due to low number of minivans, but can finance you,give you a break"...etc...while Kia was selling same thing for 2K less, to 3K less).
Another guy told me(he sold us our 04 Sonata) "they never came back"(probably got the Sedona).
I was a bit ticked about going back there for minor issues like gasket around the window needing replaced 2 times in a few months( it's over 50 miles one way!)...
so, I might have been a bit of a pain that day, lol.
Should go back and tell the guy to pay off my 04, and give me the 07 Azera for 20K, and 2.9% for 60 months, lol!(the sales mgr who asked if I did not like my car anymore, and wanted a newer car, blah,blah,blah).
Anyhow, I'll keep my car at least 2-3 years more. It's not bad.
Unless gas hits 4 per gallon next year...then I may trade in for something smaller, fast!
sorry to go on and on...
take care/not offense.
i just don't get it. corolla is the most boring and ugly option out there. this clearly shows you that people don't really care about looks and performance.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Plus when you compare the drop in value I take it you are looking at the MSRP and not the selling price. You can get the Sedona for more off of sticker than you can the sienna. If you look at the actual purchase price it becomes more inline.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I looked at the Corolla when I bought my Sonata. It was small, cramped, noisy, rode rough, was not very peppy, and was weak on safety features. For the same money, I got a much bigger, more comfortable car with a much better warranty. I don't think ANYONE really wants a car as small as the Corolla. I think they buy them for the mileage, and suffer with the cramped interior, rough ride, and noise to save on gas. Even at $3 a gallon, a $1000 savings can make up for the slightly lesser gas mileage for many years.
The low wholesale book here at Edmund's has the 04 Sienna LE with 50k miles at $14,400. What did you trade for? Edmund's is a bit high on their trade-in values so you would be lucky to get the $14k for that Sienna at most Toyota dealers. For me if I was going to lose 10 grand after only 3 years I would keep the vehicle. If you buy right you should not lose 33% in 3 years.
According to Edmund's the new cost of the 2004 Sienna XLE AWD loaded was about $25,800 including tax and license. So you paid $5000 more than the average at $31k.
I for one want a car smaller than Corolla, but with the same amenities as compact-class cars. I have almost no choices that meet those criteria, so I bought a smaller car (the Echo) with aftermarket cruise and stereo upgrades instead.
I think there are "big car people" and "small car people". Each very much appreciates the attributes of their chosen size, and can't understand the other group's perspective that well. Me, I can't figure out how anyone would put up with the poor handling, low gas mileage, and remote driving experience of most of the midsize sedans, PARTICULARLY the Sonata and Camry. Camry hybrid is the only car of that size that gets onto my radar for acceptable fuel economy, and still the other negatives I mentioned apply.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Lexus is adding AWD to their sedans for similar demands: In the North, they will sell nicely.
Sales and demand varies by region.
The tail doesn't wag the dog. If Toyota does it, the others might want to re-think their position.
But then again, Toyota can, and has, had a history of investing more in their product/customer needs than other makers.
We wouldn't leave a New Yorker out in the cold. New Yorkers are paid!
DrFill
Incidentally, if you won't leave a New Yorker out in the cold, why aren't you making a vehicle to compete with the Sportage? I want something THAT size, and Toyota has left me out in the cold.