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Comments
DrFill
A standard ICE from being processed from raw materials to being completely recycled will produce less pollutants than a Prius.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If Toyota management is interested in seeing how the Sonata is built they can take the tour.
Hyundai Tour
PS
Sante Fe sales are almost double from last year.
No, the eco-friendly way is not to drive. Don't get me even started on hybrids, give me a diesel any day.
Talking about the Prius, Toyota is trying to meet its sales goal in more ways than one. Toyota is going all out - incentives, subsidized lease rates, fleet units, and, well, the whole nine yards. These are things Toyota never needed just a few years ago, plus you had to pay thousands of markup then, and only when your number is called.
To see how this is evident, I saw full sea of Prius, Corolla and Camry last time I was at the rental lot.
How about something that burns biomass and doesn't use batteries with toxic chemicals in them, that have to be dealt with when said batteries wear out?
Hybrids have been around long enough to start getting an idea on the life of those batteries, as well as what has to be done with them. I'd suggest you look into it.
Hard to understand the consumers sometimes. Corolla is hardly the best product in the class (not even close), go figure...
I do understand, however, Matrix is included in Corolla count.
Not sure which Kia models would be built at the Georgia plant, any guesses to venture?
Waaahh! Corolla sells too many cars, and nobody buys my sled. Waaaahh! How did they sell 30,000,000 Corollas. My car has side air bags, so you should buy mine. Waaahhh!
Nice try. Keep up the not-so-good work. It's going well. :sick:
A valid point is somewhere in our future......I hope. :surprise:
DrFill
What I am curious about is the dumping of Prius into the taxi and rental fleets. When GM does this I read from posters here at Edmund's how that is degrading to the vehicles being sold. Is it not the same for the Prius?
Like I said, give me a diesel any day
You'll obviously never be in a sales or marketing position with that attitude. Your opinion of the Corolla's position in it's class is obviously, again, immaterial. The customer is right - you're not.
Hyundai sales are sad considering they build a good car. Maybe they need more marketing types in the organization to sell the sizzle more than the steak.
Been there and done that. Currently at a PR firm with a good percentage of our clients in the automotive sector. Still, thanks for the assumption and the encouragement - I appreciate your vote of confidence in me.
Your opinion of the Corolla's position in it's class is obviously, again, immaterial. The customer is right - you're not.
It was never about right or wrong. Re-read my post - I never said the consumers were wrong (or right), and I don't believe I was wrong for saying Corolla is not the best-in-class vehicle. It's not. Don't get me wrong, the Corolla is a great vehicle, but there are slew of fantastic small cars just as good, if not better.
While sales to fleets are generally degrading, I tend to see this as a positive thing. Priuses and other hybrids are ideally suited to the type of driving that cabs do, namely short city hops (they're actually more efficient city than highway). High torque takeoffs and lots of hard braking...NYC cabbies probably WOULD use lots less gas! :shades: I'm still worried about battery life and disposal though...
However, what Fill said earlier about 50% less gas due to hybrids is not backed up by any scientific data other than the soon-to-be eliminated former EPA economy test...which is being eliminated because it doesn't accurately model real-world conditions.
Real-world conditions, combining city and highway, last I checked had shown hybrids burning 20% less gas. Noticable, but not even CLOSE to 50%. back to the drawing board, Fill. Maybe you should try being one of those HONEST salesmen instead of making up stats to get sales like certain hated salesmen do? :P
Here is another recent Toyota customer review. As you mentioned the customer is always RIGHT!
Rattles, creaks, wind noise, driver's door alignment have been issues former Toyotas I've owned have never had. I'm happy I'm not having the trans issues the V6s have had. All in all Toyota has dropped the ball. Seems the company's quest to be #1 has caused quality issues. I'll think twice before buying another Toyota.
The rest of the cars were fine.
May have been a Friday, and that "base" model was the last car of the day, to come off of the assembly line :confuse:
It was shocking to see such a (easy to see) mis-alignment(s) :surprise:
Anyhow...
I like the Camry's, not the price.
My in-law ahd a 1987 Toyota pick-up(extended cab) truck... he got used in early 1988. Grey(Silver?) colored.
Not bad.
He said the problem, for him, with Toyota was not quality, it was price of replacement parts, etc..
Even at a local garage, parts were pricey, even in the 1990's.
At 153K miles, he needed the engine re-bored(due to gunk in it).
At 253k, a new tranny(well, parts).
At 278K, it was rusted out, and tranny was near death, (1999), so he got rid of it.
He liked the truck, but not the cost of parts.
This is why he refuses to buy another Toyota, new or used(Or Honda...he knew a guy with a Accord... and said similar things about parts being more costly than other companies cars he had owned in the past ??).
The spouse's tC, 30K tune-up was about 80+ dollars more than mine for an 05 Sonata V6( her tC is 05).
I know oil changes are $29.95 to $39.95 at Scion( depends on where you go, which Scion/town-state).
My oil changes are $19.95-$23.95, depends on where you go. Had seen on coupon for $9.95, but it was old, and it had expired(forgot about it).
Anyhow, carry on.
take care/not offense.
I'm sorry, but the Prius is butt-ugly. That's 1 of the very few modern cars that I would be ashamed to drive. Also, their mileage claims border on criminal. There's no way a car that heavy can susain that kind of mileage. Another problem is, the Prius' battery packs will fail en masse, and I wouldn't want to be stuck with a 5 year old car that's worth almnost nothing because of a bad battery pack. The Prius is a solution to exactly nothing. I guess it makes guilt-ridden rich people feel good to own one, but when they need to travel, they hop into their SUV.
Good post.
That's a very good point. A friend replaced a car last summer with a Corolla. She did not like the new Civic. She did not like the "new" Camry at the time.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I saw an earlier Prius Hybrid car that was a Corolla on the interstate Friday; it had rounded rear lights like a Sentra. If Toyota had kept that obvious connection to the Corolla body without distorting the style to make it look "different," they wouldn't be selling any more than Accord hybrids sell. There's a smugness to the idea of owning a car that stands out, whether I like the Prius appearance or not. The Simpsons made fun of it in one of their episodes. If the car looked like the Corolla base it has it wouldn't be selling nearly as many.
>the Prius' battery packs will fail en masse, and I wouldn't want to be stuck with a 5 year old car that's worth almnost nothing because of a bad battery pack.
I've said that from the beginning with batteries. The other factor is how can one be "green" if your batteries are made in foreign countries because they wouldn't be pollution friendly enough to be manufactured under US rules. Green car?
When will Hyundai come out with its gas-electric model?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A long long looooooong time ago I heard it was supposed to be the second half of this year (or last quarter not sure), but I haven't heard about anything about it in a while. So I wouldn't expect anything to soon.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It's being discontinued...
When will Hyundai come out with its gas-electric model?
I hear in a year or two the Accent/Rio hybrids would be here. It's already had a delay, so no definite time schedule (next gen Prius is also having a delay from what I hear). Also, Hyundai is coming out with LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) Elantra/Avante for the home market. Not sure if NA market is destined.
Forget hybrids, bring on the diesel.
I'm looking forward to seeing a slew of them to appear on market by the end of the decade. I hear Hyundai will have one by then
Originally, the Kia Rio hybrid was set to launch in late 2006; however, due to currency issues, Hyundai has pushed back the development of their hybrid cars until 2009 - at the earliest. Unfortunately, it is not known whether the first production will only be sold in Korea, or in other markets as well.
Kia Hybrid????
As far as diesels are concerned, Hyundai has them all over the world, except for the the North American market, which is the case for most automakers at this time. I had the pleasure driving its CRDi vehicles when I was in Europe, and I thought they were great!! I am really looking forward to check out its top range new diesel engine, the 3.0L V6, 240hp, 300+ lbs/tq (don't have the exact spec in front of me - I know it has cold-start technology). Should be one sweet engine.
Talking about engines, what do you guys think about the new V8s Hyundai has developed? The 4.6L, 5.0L, and 5.5L Tau family line, featuring superchargers and engine deactivation. I don't have a lot of info on them but was hoping someone would pass on additional insight.
The Tau series V8's are exciting. If they run as smoothly and reliably as the Lambda series, they should be great. If the Tau would drop into the Tiburon, a 5.5L would make it a pocket rocket! :surprise:
A 5.5L V8 engine in a FWD car?
Darn right, I'm buying another one when the time comes. The money you do spend on parts are few and far between, especially compared to the Mercurys I used to have. No offense taken, just perspective from a woman who actually owns one.
Thanks
What was the bill for the ball joint replacement?
What was the bill for the starter replacement?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What was the bill for the starter replacement?
Who cares?
Sounds like enviable performance to me. Why question it?
Talk about splitin' hairs. Let it be. Any car that goes 10 years gets a medal.
My point was cost of repairs at Toyota vs Hyundai dealers when the warranty is ended.
I just threw in the Mazda vs Toyota comparison. How is that splitting hairs?
Good post.
That's a very good point. A friend replaced a car last summer with a Corolla. She did not like the new Civic. She did not like the "new" Camry at the time.
........if the Camry didn't sell over 50,000 cars last month. :sick:
DrFill
More like 20-25 years ago. Toyota had just redefined the family car market with the 1992 Toyota Camry, and had been building Lexus for 3 years, plus "the Most Trouble Free Car In America", the Toyota Cressida for the previous 3-4 years.
Hyundai has to make up two decades. I say they can be a heavy player in one.
DrFill
More like 5. I would hazard to guess that in ten years or so they might be here saying Toyota is where Hyundai was 5 years ago.
As of now except for the name (which in reality is meaningless) there is no compelling reason to go Toyota over Hyundai.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Spoken like a true salesperson.
Do you ever let people share a story? Not everyone has to like Toyota so please stop whoring sales figures and acting like it's Toyota or nothing else.
Ugh, I'm caving in. Actually, the Camry didn't really do well last month. If you think about it, last month's figure included 1) increased fleet units 2) hybrid sales (IIRC, around 6,500 units) 3) an extra selling day
You do the math...
And not everyone has to like Hyundai. Ya see?
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Now follow the story line and see what my post was about and the response - some guy makes a post about how many Camrys were sold just b/c another person didn't like the styling.
If it makes you feel better, I don't own a Toyota nor a Hyundai. I have driven many of them (part of my job), however, and I give my experience on them. As a matter of fact, I will give (and have given) credits when they are due, Toyota, Hyundai, and the rest.
A false tie was made to the new Camry styling and an increase in Corolla sales, which would make sense, if Camry lost sales, but quite the opposite happened.
(Surprised I had to explain that point. It was pretty obvious.)
I don't care if you like Toyota or not, but the respect....I'm not feelin' it.
You endless attempts to run Toyota down to Hyundai's level have met someone who puts his foot down on that nonsense.
And that foot is me!
DrFill
Make up 2 decades in what?
In quality? Nope, Hyundai's quality is on par with Toyota now.
In reliability? Nope, Hyundai is there now.
In value? Sorry, but Hyundai leads this category by a wide margin, now. Not in 10 years, but now.
In sales? Yes. But so what? I don't care if that ever happens. It has nothing to do with quality and value. I have bought ~10 new cars in my life, and have never once asked my salesman for monthly sales figures. It just isn't a buying point.
Don't get your cause and effect mixed up DrFill. It is possible, and even probable for high quality and value to generate high car sales. However, it is not possible for high sales to generate high quality and value. That has to be built in at the factory, not talked in by the salesmen.
If things continue on their present course. You will have it in about 10 years.
A 180 degree turn on a car company's national perception, and acceptance, in 15 years, would be a prodigious achievement.
If Hyundai is wise, they will not attempt to force America's hand, and show reasonable patience and diligence.
Produce a sound marketing strategy, and a business plan that doesn't include Lexus or BMW in their bullet points. These things take time. Invest it wisely.
DrFill
Until gets a job selling Kias anyway. :shades:
You know, IBM used to think the way you/Toyota do. They woke up one day and found themselves completely irrelevant, and are still having trouble realizing it. Maybe Toyota has the same problem, hmmm?
Japan got burned in the 90s by underestimating Korea and China - They have learned their lesson, and that is the reason they are coming back now (with the lowest unemployment rate ever in their history)....so hard to believe that Toyota is sitting in their own bubble ...
That's exactly how I've felt about my last several cars that made it for 10 years and were running strong.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,