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That is easy. He does not get a commission if you buy a Sonata. Unless he gets tired of Toyota sales and switches. Then he will be on the Hyundai side of the fence. Brand is irrelevant to a good salesman.
Yes he did. It's because Toyota sells more.
Or I by a cheaper car.
I haven't decided yet. I need some convincing. :confuse:
DrFill
Food costs going up as much as 30%
My "cost of living" increase was 3.5%.
I'll buy the cheaper car.
May I ask where?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
According to Edmunds the back seat of the Camry is only bigger in one dimension (leg room) and less in other (head shoulder and hip room) so I wouldn't exactly say its a bigger back seat.
the 33 extra horses
I don't see that as an issue since most people will ever use those extra horses.
the 6-speed tranny
Is a six speed auto really any better than a 5 speed? The answer is no.
the higher fuel economy
The fuel economy is essentially the same.
the Bluetooth and Smart Key availability
First off Blue tooth in a car IMHO is meaningless. I have a bluetooth enabled phone and when I use my phone in my car I use the ear piece not the car. Secondly these add even more cost to the car so now its even more.
the thousands I save at trade-in
That you lose up front by paying thousands more to buy the car.
the winks of respect and praise that come from those in the know.
Just about everyone I know wouldn't give you any more or less respect because of the car you drive. Those that do are snobs.
I haven't decided yet. I need some convincing
Ok how about the things you can get in a fully loaded Sonata V6 that you cannot get in a base Camry of the same price.
1.) Traction Control (Which to me is better than 33 extra horses)
2.) Stability control (which to me is better than the slightly smaller back seat that the camry has)
3.) Heated seats (comes in handy in those cold Chicago winters).
4.) Sunroof
5.) In dash 6 CD changer
6.) Infinity speakers
7.) XM radio
8.) An extra 2 years or 24K miles basic warranty
9.) An extra 5 years or 40K mile drive train warranty
10.) An extra 2 years rust warranty
11.) 5 years roadside assistance (Camry has none).
Hey its a no brainer pay more for less or pay less for more, guess what the smart shopper will do?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The only car that ToyLex builds with snob appeal is the LS460L.
How do you explain that, great one?
Unless of course you were referring to the LS460 which I find to be a good choice in luxo barges. I do believe it has its fair share of snob appeal. You could feel right at home parked next to an S500 or 760Li
I was wondering if snob appeal or lack thereof had anything to do with Camry being a best seller, and how might you account for that.
Obviously you don't think it has snob appeal, but your opinion and the opinions of all those buyers out there seem to be different.
Perhaps several hundred thousand buyers out there disagree with you?
I'm curious as to your take on why the Camry sells so well.
Been down that road before, don't care about going back.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Lets put it this way, I know many Toyota owners that look down their noses at any other car. Just look at Dr. Fill and see whats in his posts.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
i would rather drive an accord, sonata, mazda 6 and milan over camry.
Well, who could blame you.
DrFill
Even the Toyo luxury line. Perry Como comes to mind. Sorry Mr. Relaxing!
Well, considering they only sell 11,000 Sonatas a month now, I guess you answered your own question.
How many Camrys do they sell a month? 50,000? Ouch.
No? I didn't think so.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well I would say 11,000 smart people vs 50,000 people who think they are smart but they aren't. :P
I doubt it, given the fact that how hyundai is doing here in Korea. You could find a load of complaints made by Azera(or a.k.a TG in Korea) owners everyday!!!!!!.
Recently it came down to two major problems
First, Contaminated coolant... Plz, check your Azera's coolant, you may find some sorta pollen like stuffs are floating.
Second and can't be the last!!!, banging noise coming from Engine, owners are saying it is most likely due to auto-tentioner malfauction or PCV valve noise(not really sure) BUT Hyundai is saying " NOT a Problem, you can hear it from other cars as well, but Azera makes it bit louder that's all"
What a way to go!!!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
How is that indicative of polluted coolant? Is there a damage due to that? It may just be the sealer that's put into car's coolant at the factory to seal fine leaks.
> auto-tentioner malfauction
The tensioner pulley on most cars is a spring device. It may vibrate as the bearing wears. They are a cheap replacement after many miles on cars due to wearout. You need to be mores specific. A banging is a nondescriptive gerund. Some cars have louder fuel injectors also.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's refreshing to see your middle ground approach to those decidedly subjective condemnations which dominate this discussion.
Will a similar approach apply to both sides of the discussion--or is this only when convenient?
Heck, if I see a guy in a Toyota, I'd think he's either a mindless sheep or afraid of his wife. I have infinitely more respect and praise for a guy in a well-maintained 15-20 year-old car or a really nice antique or classic car.
11,000/50,000 is coincidentally (or maybe not) the ratio of savvy car owners to herd followers.
If Fill would turn off his salesman act for even a minute, I think he would admit that the Sonata is very close to the Camry in quality. Car quality and value are not all or nothing. There are things about the Camry that are better than the Sonata, and things about the Sonata that are better than the Camry. Then, there is the elephant in the room, which is quality and features for the dollar., AKA VALUE. Salesmen tend to ignore all of the positives about their competition, and speak as though their employer's cars are better in every conceivable way.
A funny thought just struck me. Maybe Fill's boss monitors the Edmunds forums. That could certainly explain the stonewalling!
Oh.....OK.....that explains that. Just call all the Camry buyers dumb.
Good comeback.
11,000 Sonatas? I think they sell more Malibus than that.
By the way, I am pretty sure the Azera is called Grandeur in S. Korea. TG is its codename reference.
Buyers want consistent quality, a record worth repeating, and want it confirmed when they come to a dealership.
Toyota does that for most buyers.
Considering the heavy rep Toyota has, and the height of the bar they have to jump over to match customer expectations, a yearly 10% increase says a lot about what Toyota is producing.
Two or three good years does not sell a family sedan buyer.
Family sedans start with Accord and Camry, and everything else is 2nd rate.
Toyota and Honda have earned that much. They are the ballers, and everyone else falls in behind, somewhere.
Sonata deserves as much respect as Ford Fusion does, another nice car.
Don't hate the players.....
DrFill
Toyota (and Honda) do have a lot of brand equity built up. That is probably the one biggest hurdle Hyundai et. al. face in convincing buyers that there is little actual difference in the cars now. Many buyers will go straight to the Toyota dealer and not even consider other brands, including Hyundai. So Hyundai has to do try to do better than Toyota in some things that are significant to buyers, e.g. safety, feature content, quality, warranty, and of course pricing. But it takes time to change general opinion. I have witnessed a huge shift in opinion on Hyundai in just the past 2-3 years. But there still aren't enough people who will consider a Hyundai, so the work continues to uplift the brand. This is the month the new Hyundai ad campaign is supposed to debut, focused on raising brand image. I haven't seen these ads yet--has anyone else?
Not smart doesn't automatically mean dumb. It could mean normal or average Joe. I've seen lots of people who doesn't want to explore and always follow the path of herd. Some people still think Sony Walkman is the best. :sick:
People buy branding in most financial decisions. Trump, Century 21, Xerox, etc.
Toyota's main job is to meet customer expectations, not necessarily bring in new customers.
If they do their job, their customers will bring them more customers.
This has held true.
Toyota has a problem similar to Hyundai when it comes to getting the Tundra over.
Full-size truck buyers don't really want to buy a Toyota full-size, but will if it's over-engineered.
I can sell rings around a Silverado or F-150. The Tundra is a better truck, more power, more safety, larger interior, but the buyer has to shake off the loyalty of domestic brands that can last generations.
That's the main reason Toyota is pushing so hard with 0% or $3k back. Not what they want to do, but it maybe necessary to create true market penetration.
DrFill
Ten reasons to get Tundra:
1. 5.7 can't be matched by 6.0 with loop (check Edmunds comparison test for details)
2. 6-speed transmission with full manual capability (GM has 4-5 speeds, no manual abilities)
3. 4-wheel discs (14"!)std, with brake assist, EBD and ABS, standard. (GM will give you ABS, pay for discs, good luck getting the others)
4. More interior room, in any bag style. Significantly more.
5. Largest box, with damped tailgate standard (Pay for it at GM)
6. Standard tow package on V8 Tundra ($$ at GM)
7. Side and side curtain airbags std. (Curtains optional at GM)
8. 18" wheels std ($$ at GM)
9. 14 models tow over 10,000 lbs. (4 for GM)
10. 5.7 engine available on all models, starting under $25k.
If Toyota gets to 300k by 2010, they'll have done a hell of a job!
DrFill
Yea - they're everywhere - and sickening. Comparing an Azera to an LS. Why not compare it to a truck?
I think their ad campaign sells to people they already have in their corner instead of swaying the masses.
Now comparing an Azera to a truck... that sounds crazy to me. :surprise:
Toyota can buy their way in faster than others, but over the long run, Tundra will have to win over customers one truck at a time. I expect 250k a year, consistently, by 2010, which would double the 2006 year. Many will be to Toyota owners who need a truck, and would buy a domestic if Toyota Tundra couldn't do the job.
That problem is now solved.
DrFill
Ask a Lexus rep if he ever hears the name Hyundai at his dealership.
I don't hear it at Toyota, so why would a Lexus guy hear it there?
DrFill
People don't feel sick by watching commercials. They usually laugh or just think about the concept and all the TV commercials are exaggerated. If you feel sick flip the channel.
If you never hear Hyundai mentioned at your dealership, then I have to think you do not ask every customer you talk to the age-old qualifying question, "So, what other cars are you considering?" If not one of your customers has ever said "Sonata" or "Elantra" or "Santa Fe" or "Accent" or "Azera" or "Entourage" etc., you don't talk to many customers. Or you are very, very lucky.
Ask a Lexus rep if he ever hears the name Hyundai at his dealership.
I don't hear it at Toyota, so why would a Lexus guy hear it there?
Do you really think people will say "Oh my God, Azera is better than Lexus LS" by just watching a TV commercial?
Think about the concept of the advertisement instead of making a synical comments. :sick:
Haven't seen the commercial myself, yet. But I'll bet a lot of people say, "Gee, Azera may be a better car for what I want to spend without having to put up with the Lexus overpriced, bland image." It worked for Lexus when they used the same commercial message.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/images/asset_upload_file728_15692.pdf
Not the Christians watching who don't want to take the Lord's name in vain.
DrFill