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As for the equilibrium, I think the world economy and market supply and demand will determine that.
I'm glad YOU said that and not me......
Okay, I looked it up.
According to this article in the LA Times from June of this year...
...The U.S. Big Three "still have a ways to go to close that gap" with Japanese automakers, said Erich Merkle, an IRN Inc. auto analyst in Grand Rapids, Mich.
GM was the fourth-most-efficient automaker in North America last year, cutting the amount of labor it took to assemble its vehicles to 22.4 hours on average from 23.1 in 2004. Chrysler was fifth, improving to 23.7 hours from 25.2. Ford placed sixth at 23.8 hours, compared with 24.5 in 2004. It was the first time Chrysler's efficiency surpassed Ford's in the 18 years of the survey.
Nissan led the survey for the 12th straight year, taking 18.9 labor hours to assemble vehicles in North America, compared with 18.3 hours in 2004. Toyota was No. 2 at 21.3 hours, up from 19.5; Honda was No. 3 at 21.4 hours, up from 20.6."
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/news/la-fi-harbour2jun02,0,7062185.- story?coll=la-classifieds-autos-news
This would seem to indicate that the 'domestic' nameplates (GM, Ford, DCX) are NOT 'outproducing' any of the Big 3 'import' nameplates (Honda, Toyota, Nissan).
Since your reference was to the UAW, I'm assuming that by 'outproducing' you mean fewer manhours to make a car. Yet these stats indicate otherwise.
Now, are SOME UAW plants outproducing Toyota? Possibly. But since taken as a whole the domestic plants appear less efficient, this would indicate that OTHER UAW plants are even LESS efficient than the stats would indicate.
Domestic content of the 'imports' is increasing.
The labor hours to assemble the 'imports' is also increasing.
Domestic content for the 'domestics' is decreasing.
The labor hours to assemble the 'domestics' is also decreasing.
Related? Or coincidence?
AGAIN I didn't know the UAW, employees engineered the vehicles ?
I had a NEW Dodge shelby charger and it had to be fixed before I could drive it home, a new chevy s-10 that needed to be fixed within the first month, a new ford tempo that needed to be fixed within the first week.
-See above
the ford also went through 5 sets of michelin tires in the first 6 months.
Is that the tires fault or did the vehicles design eat tires prematurely ? Again See my first reply.
I also remember when escorts where eating engines because the heads where torqued wrong at the factory.
-See first comment.
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No, it's not destroying the automobile industry, it's only destroying the auto manufacturing industry. As matter of fact, more and more cars/SUVs/Crossovers/Trucks are designed and engineered here in the good ole' USA. Almost all of big 2.5's products are designed here as well as many Japanese and now Hyundai. New design centers are popping up left and right at California. The auto industry is actually looking good but not so much about the manufacturing.
Rocky
the dodge had to have front end aligned, engine head re torqued and some work on the brake system, car should have never made it out of the factory with the problems it had.
the chevy also had to have heads replaced as they had been improperly installed.
the ford had bad tires (michelins fault) but it also had improperly torqued heads and intake manifold also had electrical problems from improperly installed wiring.
do some digging on your own and find the % or UAW made vehicles that need to be repaired before leaving the factories.
Actually the auto industry is much stronger now than it ever has been in toto. The auto production in the US is much higher now than back in the 'wonderful' 90's. It's just that the names being made here don't have Ford, GM or Chrysler attached to them. There's nothing wrong here it's just change as usual.
So yes if your a pseudo-capatalist, and think everything should be up for a bid or the market should be the determining factor then that is something I just personally can't agree with. I've watched to many family and good friends lose their jobs because some company in China, Mexico, India, can do it cheaper. The "Pseudo" quick trigger response is education, but in todays world it takes money to make money. (refering to education) Going to college to retrain every 5 years isn't the right or correct solution. I don't believe everybody should have to have a PhD to get a good middle class income and not everyone is cut out for alot of years of college.
Just my late night rant !!!!
Rocky
I enjoy your late night rants and all of your posts. Keep up the good work.
Just a reminder:
It was not Honda or Toyota that jump-started our economy after the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01. It was GM who came to the rescue of our economy. They were lauded by the government for helping to assure that our nation's economy continued to move forward after the initial shock of the attacks. Sure, it was good for them to move iron off dealers' lots, but imagine the damage to our economy if the auto industry ground to a halt. Imagine the reverberations in all sectors (manufacturing, parts suppliers, dealership employees, transportation companies, aftermarket vendors, etc). Maybe it's hokey on my part, but I am glad GM was there to get help the US economy. Do you think Toyota or Honda would have converted their production lines to build planes and tanks if we were involved in a WWIII scenario? They love to wave the flag now, but when the stuff hits the fan who will really be there for us? I know GM & Ford will. They got us through the dark times in WWII and would do it again if called upon. If we have no manufacturing capacity in American hands then we really have no power.
Rant Mode OFF.
And "OUR" auto industry had a solid dealer network, a ready base of customers and strong brand images, which are more important than the level of a particular country's currency in relation to the dollar. And they still managed to blow those advantages.
As for tax breaks and special deals - GM, Ford and Chrysler also wrangle special incentives, infrastructure improvements and tax breaks from state and local governments when they upgrade or modernize a plant.
In some cases they threaten to close the plant if they don't receive them.
The transplants aren't the only ones playing this game...
I'm sure others will argue my perspective, but truely I think we need to quit giving monies if out sourcing of jobs continues. I know that's wisheful thinking.
Rocky
P.S. lemko, I agree with ya 100% pal
new Big 3. :sick:
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116761
The boys at Lexus, thought they were the only ones who could make a car move by its self. :confuse:
Rocky
However, I've seen lots of way-overqualified people working menial jobs because that was all they could get. I met a man who has an MBA who was just laid-off from Bausch and Lomb. He is working with his high-school educated brother as a carpet layer. Another man was a manager for Marcus Pinkus - perhaps the last apparel manufacurer left in Philadelphia before it too went overseas. He's working full-time at the job I do part time doing physical inventory. I don't know what's doing to happen to my girlfriend's brother-in-law. He has two kids in college, was just diagnosed with kidney cancer, and has no health insurance.
At the time you saw their statements you were scandalized that this is their stated strategy and you wondered out loud if maybe you'd better be giving your loyalty to an American vehicle like an Acura.
Nothing has changed in the last several months ( clsing of Norfolk F150 plant, Ford getting out of the minivan business, more to come certainly ).
Simply put GM and Ford already have one foot out the door and are just reaching back to grab their hats before closing the door. It's just good business for them. They don't have to worry about the unions any longer.
The next president could rewrite the trade laws to benefit company's like GM on our soil i.e. tax breaks, and other incentives
Just my $0.02 to spark more buy american. Grandpa, has heard that GM, is having its fair share of labor problems in China, and Mexico, to keep quality up.
Rocky
Your negativity is profound!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Incompetence = eliminated.
Simple as that.
:surprise:
Rocky
Incompetent = eliminated?
to quote you.
That's an awfully narrow-minded conclusion to make. I would make stronger statements, but the hosts...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Incompetent = eliminated
It's a cruel world out there...
As for narrow-minded, IMO nothing is more narrow-minded than American buying American, Japanese buying Japanese, Chinese buying Chinese...well, you get the idea.
Sorry. I just can't agree.
There are plenty of exceptionally compentent people who've had jobs eliminated NOT of their doing.
HOWEVER, competent people WILL find other work; even if it is not in their primary field. Because if there is ONE thing that is in constant demand on the job market, it is competent labor.
Incompetent would be those who's job has been eliminated and then sit around WHINING that they 'can't find' another job. Naive would be those who think that JUST because they've had that job for 5-10 years, that job will STILL be there 15-20 years down the road.
The job/labor market CHANGES (the cheese gets moved); that's simply a trademark of modern life.
The US will have second world at best living conditions for the masses in the future. This will make controlling them easier...blind faith is more often had by the poor and desperate than by the satisfied. The far right is licking their chops at this idea.
Some of the people doing the eliminating need to be eliminated, literally. It's going to happen in time.
"Some of the people doing the eliminating need to be eliminated, literally."
Are you openly advocating assasination in a public forum?
I'm not advocating it so much as saying it will happen...it might take a few generations for people to be repressed and conned enough to get the pendulum to shift, but it will happen, and it is deserved. The death of the middle class and explosion of the underclass will end up causing dire consequences.
Then by that definition you are one patriotic individual.....
Defer and conform, it's your role.
So please tell us that which company is using slave labor at sweatshop condition? If your answer is China then I can tell you that you are DEAD WRONG. You can't compare Chinese workers' working condition and salary to US. To workers in China, it is probably the best thing ever happen to them to have an opportunity to work for a foreign company. Even though their salary is probably only a tenth of what workers here at America made but compare to the local standard it's actually pretty good.
IMO, those corporate exec. are not cowards. They have to stand by their decsion and they rise and fall with the company. On the other hand it is funny to see those UAW workers complaining about losing jobs to oversea but they seem lack to see that they are part of the reason why.
The US will have second world at best living conditions for the masses in the future
I completely disagree, IMO the competent will excel and the incompetent will be eliminated. Simple!
There's no way first world standards should have to adjust themselves to third world standards simply in the name of corporate greed. I don't know why some shrill Chinese guys can't see this.
One tenth? I think you're being a bit generous.
These corporate clowns are indeed cowards. No matter what happens, they become just that much more wealthy. They really don't answer to anyone. They need to be forced to do so.
So what do you predict for the standard of living for the average American in 50 years? Do you see a middle class existing at all? Or would you like to see kind of a modified China, with a repressive government that should have been ousted ages ago, and a repressed population living in substandard conditions? Spare me the rhetoric about the incompetent being eliminated etc...reality doesn't work that way. Plenty of incompetent suits make far more than anyone can justify. What do you think the future holds for the average American wage earner?
Who asked you to compare their society to ours? Please stop looking at the world from our perspective, sometimes put yourself in their shoes then you can probably learn a few thing or two. You want to know why many people don't like America (and I am not talking about terrorists)? Because many of us are just way too ignorant and naive. Bottom line is that we are being spoiled.
Also, no one is asking to you adjust your living standard to third world countries'. However, why do you care if they are making one-tenth or even 1/100 of what we made? The most important thing is they are happy and no riot. They also don't go on strike everyday like we do here. Face it, they are way more efficient than we are and just like I said, incompetent will be eliminated.
Do you see a middle class existing at all?
Don't see myself anywhere other than being a middle class citizen in 50 years.