Well taking off to pick up my friend and take him the rest of the way to work. He just got his G6 back from the dealer yesterday and it just broke down on his way to work again, something wrong with the electrical.
That car is breaking down too often I think he is about the point to tell the dealer to take it back and get something else, he hasn't even had it for a year yet.
first problem is that the traction control and ABS did not work from the day he got it, now he is being plagued with electrical problems, all the lights randomly go out, ignition randomly dies, and other electrical items have randomly quit.
If you are not better than the next worker, or willing to work harder or willing to learn to be more productive then you will be replaced by your neighbor - or someone in a different country.
It is a jungle and it is survival of the fittest. There is no doubt about this and nothing is going to change this fact of life.
If a person has glided through his/her early life and not excelled then to expect to do better when becoming an adult is wrong-headed. Then not being flexible when adult as things change around you is also wrong-headed.
'Officer, yes I did see that truck coming through the red light but it shouldn't have been there so I didn't stop or swerve out of the way. It shouldn't have been there. It's not my fault that it broadsided me. It shouldn't have been there.'
But it was there and you did nothing to prepare for it or to avoid it.
One also should factor in the "content" also. Sure their are a few Japanese nameplates that are assembled here and also have a high domestic content, however the Big 3 on avg. across the board are way ahead in that department.
The HUGE difference though as you well know from earlier posts ... both GM and Ford are already moving as many jobs out of the US as fast as they can to get away from the union influence. It may not be next month but it will be next year and then faster and faster after that.
The trucks and SUV's were the last great hope for the unions to keep jobs here. Now Ford for one can't close capacity fast enough. All future 'detroiter' autos are likely to be built outside our borders. You've seen the corporate statements already in this forum. It's only a matter of time.
But you can still support the nameplates as long as you accept that you are supporting workers outside the US.
IMHO I agree that presently it's gadgets that make the checkbooks open. Buying autos always has been an emotional experience - both good and bad - and it's been well known that the vehicle's appeal is what causes the decision to be made.
Now days most buyers are in some ways gadget freaks. From computers to Treo's to sound systems nearly everyone has a technological 'hot spot'.
Now it's less and less about the driving experience since for many driving is a horrible chore to be minimized as much as possible. This excludes the sports enthusiasts of course.
However being in a luxurious studio with entertainment, computer access, personal access to business and family, and being isolated from the often painful driving experience is what is being expected now.
Gadgets: Video systems Onstar Sat radio Navi/GPS systems Bluetooth One touch entry/start Wireless internet access Wireless video access Laser cruise control Self parking vehicles Backup camera's heated and air-conditioned seating remote starters
On the subject of sensors on the dashboard, I remember my Grandma's '85 LeSabre had this round one that stuck up just a bit. I never knew what it was for. The car had automatic climate control and if you set a certain temperature for the heat, the blower wouldn't kick on until the car was warm enough. But I'm sure that was controlled by the thermostat, and not some sensor on top of the dash.
The car did have the twilight sentinel thingie, that was supposed to automatically turn on the lights for you when it got dark enough. Could that be what it was for?
The cars had a small light sensor that sat on top of the dash to read the ambient light to turn on headlights (I think) and also to see oncoming headlight beams so the brights on your car could also automatically dim. They read the red taillights so they dimmed your lights before you were too close to a car ahead of you with your brights on.
The little pod looked like a banana half with a lens at the front end.
I have been looking at these a lot lately. They have a few jobs, one is to turn the headlights on when its dark (most DRL cars have this) and for cars with auto climate, it is to figure out if the angle of the sun coming through the windshield. Yes it knows you aren't sitting on the dash, it can figure out where the sun is in the sky and compensate with the interior fans accordingly. This is generally more comfortable than 1. sitting on a sensor going up ur bottom, 2. having the sensor mounted on top of your head. There is an algorithm that defines for a given resistance though the circuit, the fans and cooling system should compensate x amount. Its interesting that different manufacturers use completely different methods for accomplishing that task. Its also interesting that the Pontiac part is ~$20 while the Toyota part is ~$110.
In the 1950s the gadgets were automatic headlight dimmers, automatic windshield washers, power windows, power seats, power door locks and "wonderbar" radios.
In the 1960s the gadgets were ever-fancier stereo systems, power antennas and climate control (as opposed to manual air conditioning).
We've always been "gadget freaks" when it comes to cars...it's just that expectations have changed, and computer techology (driven by CAFE and Clean Air regulations) has allowed manufacturers to pack more gadgets into each vehicle.
In the 1950s, a large number of people were happy to have ANY car, and a new car in and of itself was a really big deal.
Now people EXPECT to get a new car, and more of them won't settle for anything less than the top-of-the-line model with all of the bells and whistles (whether they can really afford it is another story).
Well, as you may have heard, GM extendedit's warranty to 100,000 miles. So for all you who ragged on GM, saying, if their quality really has gone up, why don't they back it up with a better warranty? Well, they just did, and the warranty trumps that by Toyota or Honda.
I haven't look closely at a service manual but the newer leSabres had a single sensor for heat load in the middle of the dash but it's larger. I suspected it's a dual sensor determining which direction the heat load comes from. I like the two separate sensors on corners of the dashboard so they can sense sun heat from above and to the side about 40 degrees beyond the "perpendicular."
The headlight control is a separate photosensor. As for the cost of Toyota vs Buick's...
I see that Ford is offering 75,000 buy-outs to its employees. :surprise: OMG, that is alot.
Well if GM, or Ford, want to keep my business they will have to make em' here in the states. If they don't then I will buy from a country and company that pays its work force a fair wage, and decent benefits. I prefer that company to use union labor to build the product I'm buying. I am devastated we are closing down our domestic auto-plants. It's getting sadder by the minute, for blue collar workers in this country and it's only going to get worse. :sick:
OK, this discussion is headed off the rails... let's get back on-topic, skip the hyperbole, and stick to cars.
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I think GM, could be making a big mistake by going to mostly FWD cars. If Buick, goes to RWD across the board also, alot people in the midwest, NE, Rockies, are going to wonder what to do in the winter time. I guess they could always bring back Oldsmobile and make that a FWD lux brand. I know that is wishful thinking but I think it would of been cheaper than the billions they spent discontinuing it, right ?
I have been reading about the Ford fiasco the last several days. A couple of days ago I received my latest issue of “Classic Cars”. Its cover article is about the Flathead Ford era. They show almost all of the varied Flat Head Fords from that era.
It brings back a lot of memories, as my father had a 1933 Flathead Ford that we traveled across the desert in right after the Second World War when we came home to Kansas from California where Dad had been working in the defense industry. What a rough riding, noisy (by today’s standards) and hot trip it was. But we made it home, pulling an old trailer containing our few household belongings.
It makes me incredibly sad to see the bad fortunes that Ford is in today. This is the company that really started the mass-produced automobile in our country. It literally put America on wheels after centuries of horse-drawn conveyances. And let’s not forget what a tremendous contribution Ford made to winning World War II. Now, there is a question whether or not they will survive. What in the world happened to such a magnificent American enterprise?
Well, to put it in simple terms, management went wrong. It is management’s job to earn the big dollars they are paid to direct the company towards a long lived profitable future. Ford’s management has not done that.
You know, a thought just occurred to me. Why not call-in Robert McNamara for a long set down lunch at Ford headquarters? Since he was part of the “Whiz Kids” management team that came in after World War II and led Ford to some of its greatest years. This lead to Ford II appointing Robert McNamara president of the Company several years later. Mr. McNamara did not get to fulfill this role for very long as President Kennedy had just been elected and he called Mr. McNamara and persuaded him to become Secretary of Defense. My guess is he might very well welcome this luncheon conference. I would also guess that he could give Ford Motor Company some excellent ideas about turning around this institution since he had been involved in doing this before. In any event it should be an enjoyable lunch and maybe some good ideas would come out of it.
"I think GM, could be making a big mistake by going to mostly FWD cars. If Buick, goes to RWD across the board also, alot people in the midwest, NE, Rockies, are going to wonder what to do in the winter time."
Not that it matters much, but I think that Chevy cars should stay all FWD with Buick being the upmarket comfy/luxury counterpart division to Chevrolet (again, with all FWD vehicles).
And Pontiac should be the performance division with all RWD cars with Cadillac being the upmarket performance/luxury counterpart to Pontiac (again, with all RWD vehicles).
And Saturn could be essentially the European flavor division selling rebadged Opels.
Personally, I can't think of ANY good reason to bring back Olds. What would they offer in an Olds dealership that wouldn't fit in any of their other divisions?
"Auto analysts said Toyota and Honda have already established reputations for quality, durable vehicles and therefore haven't needed to add warranty coverage to attract buyers.
Besides, they added, consumers would rather buy a trouble-free vehicle upfront and never have to invoke the warranty than have to take a troublesome vehicle back to a dealership for repairs—even if the repairs don't cost anything because they're under warranty. "
Ann Job is a California-based automotive writer.
Ford and GM are playing games with their warranties, they get longer and shorter year by year. They are long on some parts, short on others. Why are GM and Ford only letting their luxury divisions get decent warranties? That tells me that their economical models are junk, and their top of the line stuff is decent. They should have long warranties for all of their models!!!! Why don't Toyota and Honda match Acura and Lexus warranties? Answer is above in the quoted article; they just don't have to.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I believed the Honda Hype when I bought my '03 Accord. Three years later I had to replace the AC compressor, clutch, and coil to the tune of $1100. I realize problems can happen to any car. But the myth that Hondas and Toyotas don;t break is just that, a myth. Frankly, my next car will probably be a GM. With the strides they're making in quality and powertrain refinement I will give them the closest look.
Why are GM and Ford only letting their luxury divisions get decent warranties? That tells me that their economical models are junk, and their top of the line stuff is decent. They should have long warranties for all of their models!!!!
Actually the 100,000 mile warranty is on the economy vehicles as well. And obviously long warranties do sell, look at Hyundai. Plus there have been a lot of people on these boars complaining about the fact that GM doesn't back up its products because it doesn't offer long enough warranties.
Plus there have been a lot of people on these boars complaining about the fact that GM doesn't back up its products because it doesn't offer long enough warranties.
That would be "Mr. Warranty" Loren.
Loren, is right warranty's sell and hopefully GM can take the bumper to bumper warranty to class leading.
Well He picked up his G6 and didn't make it out of the parking lot, smelled something burning, the entire electrical system fried car almost caught fire, The dealer is now dealing with it, offered him another G6, I won't post what he told the dealer he could do with his cars. I drove him over to a Hyundai dealer and he drove home a new Azera. If he finds out why the G6 burned out the entire electrical system I'll post it here.
Wish I had my camera, had melted wires under the hood and melted plastic dripped from under the dash, the car smelt like burnt wiring.
Where do you get your info that 100K warranty is for all GM and Ford lines and brands of cars in their family of companies? I read differing information.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"Think of it this way: Toyota, Honda, Nissan et al. didn’t establish segment dominance simply by building good products. They built good products in segments where American cars sucked. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, it’s worth noting that the so-called imports’ products don’t suck."
My dad just bought himself a new toyota truck to replace his dodge, the dodge never worked right, always had some sort of brake or electrical problem. had to have shocks and springs replaced within 2 days of getting it, think one spring was broke when he got it and has always had the right front brake drag, even after dealer replaced the caliper and rotor.
"had to have shocks and springs replaced within 2 days of getting it, think one spring was broke when he got it and has always had the right front brake drag, even after dealer replaced the caliper and rotor."
Sounds like that Ram suffered from some sloppy assembling in the plant in which it was made. That can happen with any car make though.
most likely or during shipping, but it should have been caught before it left the factory/dealer lot, there are many points where the vehicle is supposed to be inspected. I've looked at new cars and seen leaking head gaskets oil pans, diferental, transmissions, gas tanks, seen bent tierods all on new cars in dealer lot, cars like that should never be out in the lot.
The question arose, on a different, non-auto forum, as to whether people of particular political orientations or ethnicities are likely to buy certain types of cars. Please note, no offense is intended. Some suggestions, which sound reasonable to me, are as follows:
What about 'ex-Union workers' such as at the Norfolk F150 plant which Ford is now closing. Think there might be a slight backlash against Ford and the other two as Ford moves to Mexico and beyond.
What about 'ex-Union workers' such as at the Norfolk F150 plant which Ford is now closing. Think there might be a slight backlash against Ford and the other two as Ford moves to Mexico and beyond.
Think about it.
Workers will either retire with a buy-out, or take the money $140K if they have 10 yrs. in. The younger crowd will transfer to other plants. The "buy-outs" will get rid of alot of excess employees. Look at GM, what they did. They had to hire temps to fill the jobs.
I'm sure some will revolt with anger. I'd be upset also. I used to work at Johnson Controls, and they are doing the same thing pal.
Like I've said before if The Big 3 ever make most of their cars in cheap slave labor markets I won't buy one. Rocky will just have to drive a European car. Oh, Ouch ! :P
Generally agree with the list but have several different opinions:
1. I hardly seen any Hispanic in a minivan so I am puzzled about that one...
2. How did Camry and Accord end up in the Seniors group. Cars like that are so popular, people from any group (ethnic, political, racial) across the broad would buy them. As matter of fact I think these 2 are the most "non-biased" car in the country right now.
3. Where do Mercedes and Audi fit in? I would put Mercedes under "Conservatives" and Audi under "Liberal conservatives".
4. Last but not least, I've actually see more (way more) mid-age white people driving the 300 than Blacks.
Lemko, I thought you asked about this plant yesterday, if so here ya go pal:
Ford Rouge factory: The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn offers a bus tour that visits the vast and historic Rouge complex where Henry Ford transformed raw materials into Model A cars. A visitors center offers a film on car making technology, and there's an overhead walkway tour of the Ford F-150 pickup truck assembly line in the building next door.
The rest of the article in the link is pretty cool.
I kind of look at it this way. If I can't buy an American-made product, I'll at least buy it from a place that treats its workers decently. About ten years ago or more, I could've confidently chose a Mercedes-Benz. However, seeing the problems my BIL has with his S430 makes me a little wary. BMWs always struck me as a bit fragile and maintenance-intensive. Audis are far too overpriced. VW - forget it! I've had my experiences with VW! When my girlfriend was shopping for a car, I told her if she bought a VW , I'd drop her like a handful of hot rivets!
You're going to hate me for this, but the only foreign car in which I'd be confident in buying is the Lexus LS.
You're going to hate me for this, but the only foreign car in which I'd be confident in buying is the Lexus LS.
A very good choice, and no "hate" at all. I've baughten a foreign car called a Acura TL. Yeah I know some of you don't classify it as foreign since it is assembled here in the States and has 65% "american content" I did buy it for that reason when GM, sent me over the edge. I did get e-mails of apology's over the last few years from brand management.
My favorite foreign car made today is the irresistible 2007' Volvo S80 V-8 AWD. Now lemko, she is a sexy beast. :shades:
Volvo could make a car as sexy as a Ferrari, reliable as a Lexus, and as cheap as a Kia but it will still remind me of an ex-girlfriend's obnoxious father who had three of them. This guy reminded me of Joe Flynn's character Captain Binghamton from "McHale's Navy." He even had the same grating nasally voice!
I've always been a bit surprised you weren't a huge fan of volvo since they are conservative like a Buick or Cadillac. The S80's interior is flat out a piece of ART.
Trouble is, everybody I met who owned a Volvo was an obnoxious arrogant sort. There are two guys at work like that and they both own Volvos. I didn't want to be associated with people like that. Sometimes the people who buy them can ruin a car's reputation. I know that's just as unfair as the "old people and Buick" association.
Yeah, I understand. It stinks a few jerks own them to ruin ones perception. I feel kinda the same about some of my co-workers who own Toyota's, Honda's, Nissan's. If their arrogance was a perfume it would stink.
When my MIL was in town, she was pushing to go on this tour. She is not what I would consider a car person so I was very surprised she was so interested. There is A LOT of propaganda on the tour (the bus ride to and from the Henry Ford Museum is a running tribute to the greatness of Henry Ford), and there are 2 movies which are slightly overdone but get the point across. They added a catwalk kind of thing so you can walk around part of the assembly plant and watch the different work stations. When I was like 10, my family went on a tour of the Norwood, OH assembly plant (where Camaros and Firebirds came from in the 80s) and it was a very different experience. Some Union guy was leading us around on the actual manufacturing floor, telling us about the individual work stations and how each process worked. I think he said at the end we walked like two and half miles, but the experience was a lot cooler.
to buy any American car in the next few years that is made in a plant that is being shut down...call me stupid, but I would think that any lineworker who is about to be let go or bought out will not be happy, and will be highly susceptible to possible sabotage of the product, as they now have nothing to lose with a poor product...they can ruin Ford's/GM's reputation further, but as long as their buyout check clears, it will not matter to them...
And no, I do not believe that they will give their best and have the integrity to try and build a superior product on their way out...they have been instilled with a "union welfare entitlement" mindset over the last half century, and it is just as bad as the political "welfare mentality" where they believe they deserve it because they can breathe...
Just as it took welfare reform to FORCE them off the dole in the political system, it is requiring closing plants and dumping excess "featherbedded" workers jobs to wean them off the entitlement mentality...the difference is that they will still be making vehicles until the plant shuts down, and woe to the person who buys that unit...it is a gamble that I will not take...
I would, however, continue to buy from a plant that is not shutting down and the workers continue in their jobs...
That may be true, but my personal experience is that they if they break down it is far less often than any newer model (after 1970) american brand car I have had. Hell had a 1964 Dodge D-500 flatbed dump truck with over 500,000 miles on it that was more reliable than any new american vehicle I have had, the D-500 had one problem, it was damn hard to find a parking spot that it would fit in. It is really sad when you have to drive a 20 year old dump truck because your brand new car is broke down again. also if you look at each model year you will see that domestics have many more recalls per year than the the others.
I would agree on many of your classifications, except for minivans. You are way off on that one! Here in the midwest there are still a lot of minivans driven by everyone, and it's still the predominant "mommy" vehicle regardless of race, creed, color, or ethnicity.
So the union workers are the only "featherbedded" workers in this country ? wow ! :confuse: The "suits" don't have golden strings on their parachute ? :surprise: I'd trade there landing with a UAW, worker anytime.
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He just got his G6 back from the dealer yesterday and it just broke down on his way to work again, something wrong with the electrical.
That car is breaking down too often I think he is about the point to tell the dealer to take it back and get something else, he hasn't even had it for a year yet.
first problem is that the traction control and ABS did not work from the day he got it, now he is being plagued with electrical problems, all the lights randomly go out, ignition randomly dies, and other electrical items have randomly quit.
If you are not better than the next worker, or willing to work harder or willing to learn to be more productive then you will be replaced by your neighbor - or someone in a different country.
It is a jungle and it is survival of the fittest. There is no doubt about this and nothing is going to change this fact of life.
If a person has glided through his/her early life and not excelled then to expect to do better when becoming an adult is wrong-headed. Then not being flexible when adult as things change around you is also wrong-headed.
'Officer, yes I did see that truck coming through the red light but it shouldn't have been there so I didn't stop or swerve out of the way. It shouldn't have been there. It's not my fault that it broadsided me. It shouldn't have been there.'
But it was there and you did nothing to prepare for it or to avoid it.
The HUGE difference though as you well know from earlier posts ... both GM and Ford are already moving as many jobs out of the US as fast as they can to get away from the union influence. It may not be next month but it will be next year and then faster and faster after that.
The trucks and SUV's were the last great hope for the unions to keep jobs here. Now Ford for one can't close capacity fast enough. All future 'detroiter' autos are likely to be built outside our borders. You've seen the corporate statements already in this forum. It's only a matter of time.
But you can still support the nameplates as long as you accept that you are supporting workers outside the US.
Now days most buyers are in some ways gadget freaks. From computers to Treo's to sound systems nearly everyone has a technological 'hot spot'.
Now it's less and less about the driving experience since for many driving is a horrible chore to be minimized as much as possible. This excludes the sports enthusiasts of course.
However being in a luxurious studio with entertainment, computer access, personal access to business and family, and being isolated from the often painful driving experience is what is being expected now.
Gadgets:
Video systems
Onstar
Sat radio
Navi/GPS systems
Bluetooth
One touch entry/start
Wireless internet access
Wireless video access
Laser cruise control
Self parking vehicles
Backup camera's
heated and air-conditioned seating
remote starters
Advancements:
ABS, BA, EBD ( 90's )
VSC / Trac Ctrl
6-8 airbags
hybrid technology
clean diesel engines
Accident anticipation measures
Whiplash resistance seat designs
Others to be added?
The car did have the twilight sentinel thingie, that was supposed to automatically turn on the lights for you when it got dark enough. Could that be what it was for?
The little pod looked like a banana half with a lens at the front end.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes it knows you aren't sitting on the dash, it can figure out where the sun is in the sky and compensate with the interior fans accordingly. This is generally more comfortable than 1. sitting on a sensor going up ur bottom, 2. having the sensor mounted on top of your head. There is an algorithm that defines for a given resistance though the circuit, the fans and cooling system should compensate x amount.
Its interesting that different manufacturers use completely different methods for accomplishing that task. Its also interesting that the Pontiac part is ~$20 while the Toyota part is ~$110.
In the 1960s the gadgets were ever-fancier stereo systems, power antennas and climate control (as opposed to manual air conditioning).
We've always been "gadget freaks" when it comes to cars...it's just that expectations have changed, and computer techology (driven by CAFE and Clean Air regulations) has allowed manufacturers to pack more gadgets into each vehicle.
In the 1950s, a large number of people were happy to have ANY car, and a new car in and of itself was a really big deal.
Now people EXPECT to get a new car, and more of them won't settle for anything less than the top-of-the-line model with all of the bells and whistles (whether they can really afford it is another story).
The headlight control is a separate photosensor. As for the cost of Toyota vs Buick's...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well if GM, or Ford, want to keep my business they will have to make em' here in the states. If they don't then I will buy from a country and company that pays its work force a fair wage, and decent benefits. I prefer that company to use union labor to build the product I'm buying. I am devastated we are closing down our domestic auto-plants. It's getting sadder by the minute, for blue collar workers in this country and it's only going to get worse. :sick:
All I can do is pray for John in 08'
Rocky
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Rocky
It brings back a lot of memories, as my father had a 1933 Flathead Ford that we traveled across the desert in right after the Second World War when we came home to Kansas from California where Dad had been working in the defense industry. What a rough riding, noisy (by today’s standards) and hot trip it was. But we made it home, pulling an old trailer containing our few household belongings.
It makes me incredibly sad to see the bad fortunes that Ford is in today. This is the company that really started the mass-produced automobile in our country. It literally put America on wheels after centuries of horse-drawn conveyances. And let’s not forget what a tremendous contribution Ford made to winning World War II. Now, there is a question whether or not they will survive. What in the world happened to such a magnificent American enterprise?
Well, to put it in simple terms, management went wrong. It is management’s job to earn the big dollars they are paid to direct the company towards a long lived profitable future. Ford’s management has not done that.
You know, a thought just occurred to me. Why not call-in Robert McNamara for a long set down lunch at Ford headquarters? Since he was part of the “Whiz Kids” management team that came in after World War II and led Ford to some of its greatest years. This lead to Ford II appointing Robert McNamara president of the Company several years later. Mr. McNamara did not get to fulfill this role for very long as President Kennedy had just been elected and he called Mr. McNamara and persuaded him to become Secretary of Defense. My guess is he might very well welcome this luncheon conference. I would also guess that he could give Ford Motor Company some excellent ideas about turning around this institution since he had been involved in doing this before. In any event it should be an enjoyable lunch and maybe some good ideas would come out of it.
I can at least dream.
Not that it matters much, but I think that Chevy cars should stay all FWD with Buick being the upmarket comfy/luxury counterpart division to Chevrolet (again, with all FWD vehicles).
And Pontiac should be the performance division with all RWD cars with Cadillac being the upmarket performance/luxury counterpart to Pontiac (again, with all RWD vehicles).
And Saturn could be essentially the European flavor division selling rebadged Opels.
Personally, I can't think of ANY good reason to bring back Olds. What would they offer in an Olds dealership that wouldn't fit in any of their other divisions?
Besides, they added, consumers would rather buy a trouble-free vehicle upfront and never have to invoke the warranty than have to take a troublesome vehicle back to a dealership for repairs—even if the repairs don't cost anything because they're under warranty. "
Ann Job is a California-based automotive writer.
Ford and GM are playing games with their warranties, they get longer and shorter year by year. They are long on some parts, short on others. Why are GM and Ford only letting their luxury divisions get decent warranties? That tells me that their economical models are junk, and their top of the line stuff is decent. They should have long warranties for all of their models!!!! Why don't Toyota and Honda match Acura and Lexus warranties? Answer is above in the quoted article; they just don't have to.
Rocky
Actually the 100,000 mile warranty is on the economy vehicles as well. And obviously long warranties do sell, look at Hyundai. Plus there have been a lot of people on these boars complaining about the fact that GM doesn't back up its products because it doesn't offer long enough warranties.
That would be "Mr. Warranty" Loren.
Loren, is right warranty's sell and hopefully GM can take the bumper to bumper warranty to class leading.
Rocky
I drove him over to a Hyundai dealer and he drove home a new Azera.
If he finds out why the G6 burned out the entire electrical system I'll post it here.
Wish I had my camera, had melted wires under the hood and melted plastic dripped from under the dash, the car smelt like burnt wiring.
"Think of it this way: Toyota, Honda, Nissan et al. didn’t establish segment dominance simply by building good products. They built good products in segments where American cars sucked. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, it’s worth noting that the so-called imports’ products don’t suck."
had to have shocks and springs replaced within 2 days of getting it, think one spring was broke when he got it and has always had the right front brake drag, even after dealer replaced the caliper and rotor.
Sounds like that Ram suffered from some sloppy assembling in the plant in which it was made. That can happen with any car make though.
I've looked at new cars and seen leaking head gaskets oil pans, diferental, transmissions, gas tanks, seen bent tierods all on new cars in dealer lot, cars like that should never be out in the lot.
Rocky
Liberals -
Volvos
Subarus
Volkswagens
any hybrids
Conservatives -
pickups
full-size SUV's
American-built sedans
"Liberal conservatives" (liberal on social issues, conservative on economic issues) -
BMW's
Lexuses
Infinitis
Blacks -
300's
Maximas
Escalades
Hispanics -
Minivans
Seniors -
Buicks
500's
Crown Vics/Grand Marquis
Camrys/Avalons
Accords
Rocky
Think about it.
Think about it.
Workers will either retire with a buy-out, or take the money $140K if they have 10 yrs. in. The younger crowd will transfer to other plants. The "buy-outs" will get rid of alot of excess employees. Look at GM, what they did. They had to hire temps to fill the jobs.
I'm sure some will revolt with anger. I'd be upset also. I used to work at Johnson Controls, and they are doing the same thing pal.
Like I've said before if The Big 3 ever make most of their cars in cheap slave labor markets I won't buy one. Rocky will just have to drive a European car. Oh, Ouch ! :P
Rocky
1. I hardly seen any Hispanic in a minivan so I am puzzled about that one...
2. How did Camry and Accord end up in the Seniors group. Cars like that are so popular, people from any group (ethnic, political, racial) across the broad would buy them. As matter of fact I think these 2 are the most "non-biased" car in the country right now.
3. Where do Mercedes and Audi fit in? I would put Mercedes under "Conservatives" and Audi under "Liberal conservatives".
4. Last but not least, I've actually see more (way more) mid-age white people driving the 300 than Blacks.
Lemko, I thought you asked about this plant yesterday, if so here ya go pal:
Ford Rouge factory: The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn offers a bus tour that visits the vast and historic Rouge complex where Henry Ford transformed raw materials into Model A cars. A visitors center offers a film on car making technology, and there's an overhead walkway tour of the Ford F-150 pickup truck assembly line in the building next door.
The rest of the article in the link is pretty cool.
Rocky
Rocky
You're going to hate me for this, but the only foreign car in which I'd be confident in buying is the Lexus LS.
A very good choice, and no "hate" at all. I've baughten a foreign car called a Acura TL. Yeah I know some of you don't classify it as foreign since it is assembled here in the States and has 65% "american content" I did buy it for that reason when GM, sent me over the edge. I did get e-mails of apology's over the last few years from brand management.
My favorite foreign car made today is the irresistible 2007' Volvo S80 V-8 AWD. Now lemko, she is a sexy beast. :shades:
Rocky
The S80's interior is flat out a piece of ART.
Rocky
Rocky
There is A LOT of propaganda on the tour (the bus ride to and from the Henry Ford Museum is a running tribute to the greatness of Henry Ford), and there are 2 movies which are slightly overdone but get the point across.
They added a catwalk kind of thing so you can walk around part of the assembly plant and watch the different work stations.
When I was like 10, my family went on a tour of the Norwood, OH assembly plant (where Camaros and Firebirds came from in the 80s) and it was a very different experience. Some Union guy was leading us around on the actual manufacturing floor, telling us about the individual work stations and how each process worked. I think he said at the end we walked like two and half miles, but the experience was a lot cooler.
And no, I do not believe that they will give their best and have the integrity to try and build a superior product on their way out...they have been instilled with a "union welfare entitlement" mindset over the last half century, and it is just as bad as the political "welfare mentality" where they believe they deserve it because they can breathe...
Just as it took welfare reform to FORCE them off the dole in the political system, it is requiring closing plants and dumping excess "featherbedded" workers jobs to wean them off the entitlement mentality...the difference is that they will still be making vehicles until the plant shuts down, and woe to the person who buys that unit...it is a gamble that I will not take...
I would, however, continue to buy from a plant that is not shutting down and the workers continue in their jobs...
Hell had a 1964 Dodge D-500 flatbed dump truck with over 500,000 miles on it that was more reliable than any new american vehicle I have had, the D-500 had one problem, it was damn hard to find a parking spot that it would fit in.
It is really sad when you have to drive a 20 year old dump truck because your brand new car is broke down again.
also if you look at each model year you will see that domestics have many more recalls per year than the the others.
Rocky