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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Always liked that reddish/brown color over tan interior. Very expressive.
driver...I've always been something of an extrovert. TL fits that bill. Driving the AWD version really kind of sealed the deal for me. While I liked to base model, I loved the handling of the AWD version. That said, there's a lot of competition in that slice of the market. You like the German brands. I certainly see their appeal. You should drive one sometime. I don't expect it will change your preferences. You might view it in a different light, though.
Everyone puts different weights on what it is they feel is important. Most car companies spend gobs of money trying to figure out what the public wants, and then try to engineer their vehicles for that slice of the market.
For example, it was obvious to me that Infiniti G37 is aiming squarely at that BMW 3 market. Lexus was an obvious target for the Genesis. Just as Lexus' target was Mercedes....and on and on.
To me Acura went off the map with their new styling. I like that.
Boom...not a bad idea by putting it on ebay and seeing where it ends up. I'm going to try shopping it locally, first.
I think we all new it would be the TL :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree, the TL stands out from the rest......... in a good way. The front end is controversial though. I don't mind it, it actually looks much better with dark colors because you get the contrast.
You should drive one sometime. I don't expect it will change your preferences. You might view it in a different light, though
You have me down exactly right. I have driven a 1999 and 2004 Maxima. Both were excellent cars, but it isn't the same as a bmw or Audi to me. Once in my illustrious career path I sold watches, just when Seikos came out and changed the watch world. Seikos cost less, and were more reliable, more advanced, and had great designs, but there was still something about a Swiss made Omega. I am not sure I can explain the difference, it might just seems German cars, although not as reliable, are still crafted with the values of people who want to build the car exactly right....it's a passion to build the best performance and feel of the road as possible. It isn't better, just more substance than glitter, and the need to get it just right (things like putting the battery under the trunk to get the exact best weight distribution). Those are all personal opinions, and doesn't make one car better than the other, ....it's what's important to you. The TL stands out because of that new design, and it is a good solid car that always rates high in every review I have read. My best friend has a 2004 and I think it is a great car, and it would be high on my list of possibles. I think I would try one if I was in the market right now.
If the grill does get to you, you can get one of these for $571 free shipping.....
GG, your insight and comments are right on though......
If you go to the link you can enlarge it:
Aftermarket Acura grill
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It was aptly named Trumpet Gold and it was, and still is, hideous indeed!
I've always said that a Lexus is designed for people who want a Mercedes that drives like a Cadillac. And I agree, Audi is seriously nipping at BMW's heels. I like their styling and interior design a lot. I simply prefer RWD- and at Ingolstadt that's notgonnahappen.com, as Peter D. would say...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
First, I did get a call from the Costco guy. He made another offer, over the phone. $22,500 ($500 over his first offer). I told him I wasn't in a hurry to sell the Tahoe. But, if he was interested, adding another $2K to his offer would do it. He said he'd think about it. I don't think it's going to happen with him. I don't even know if he's got the cash. I assume he does, as he's given me no indication that he doesn't. But, as you pros know, especially in today's climate, you don't even know if someone can get financed.
There are two Acura dealers in town. Knowing that Acura has $2,250 in manufacture's money, invoice minus the incentive is $37,900. I'm thinking $38,300. I think it's fair. They make a little money. And, that's a number I can live with. Add in $35 for tags, and another $100 for doc...taxes=$2,390. Round some numbers here, tuck a few numbers there. All in....my offer sheet says $40,700.
First dealer, which is farthest away, says we're "only" about $500 apart. They said coming out the shoot that my doc fee is off by $150. I thank them for their time as they do the ubiquitous "what will it take to earn your business?". Told them I was still shopping, as they didn't have a color combo that interested me.
"We can get whatever color you want for an extra $200".
We were going in the wrong direction.
"Well, just curious, how much will you give me for this Tahoe?"
They take my keys, give it the once over, drive it around for about 10 minutes and come back...."nice vehicle...new tires?" (as the stickers on the new tires haven't worn off completely yet).
"Yep...Tahoe needs nothing. Got the entire service history receipts if you're interested."
They come back with a $20,500 number. I shook my head.
"Do you have the service receipts with you?"
"Matter of fact, I do", as I hand them a folder.
"Has it ever been wrecked?"
"Nope....never even sniffed a paint or body shop."
They confer again, with my folder in tow, and come back with a $21K number. I tell them I'm thinking $23,500 and my number on the TL. We're not close enough to go further.
As I've said before, I'm not much for horse trading.....doing the "bumpity-bump".
Good dealership. Liked them. Very professional. Thanked them. Time to move on.
Dealer #2 is up tonight (the one I've done business with before, and the one that's closest to me).
So, of course, every dealer will tell you that they are required to charge it.. :surprise:
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WE know it's "not required by the state". Yet, that's the way it's positioned. Only thing required by the state or city is for me to pay their taxes.
Actually I think $50 is more fair for processing docs. $100, a bit high, but I can justify that number. $250? Not so much.
We all know how the game's played. That's why I put one number together. This time, I showed the doc fee, license cost and taxes in my offer sheet with a bottom line price. I did that only because I get asked "how did you come up with that number?" by dealerships. Thought I'd circumvent that question by showing them how I did it. Probably should have omitted it and just showed one number....the number I'm writing a check for. Let them figure out how to divvy it up.
BTW.....Columbia is where I was last night. I know they're part of the Joseph Group (as is the Infiniti store). Good people over there. We just couldn't get together on money issues.
We'll see what the "Superior" folks have to say tonight.
You may see an ad in the newspaper for a blue 2007 Tahoe in a couple of weeks.
Quick question - no offense meant - does that mean your right and they are wrong or your number is too low?
I've been asked that before. I think it's a bit personal and none of the dealerships business how I came up with the number. After all, haven't we, the consumer, often read here that it's inappropriate to ask a dealership how much they paid for a car or how much they have in it. If we're too far apart just say so.
Why? Maybe you figured in an incentive that wasn't available to you? Or.... you misfigured taxes or took off the rebate before you added taxes? I would think any dealer that really wanted to move a unit would at least try to understand why you want to pay X.
This happened to me when helping a friend buy an 04 Explorer. There was $4500 rebate at the time and it was getting to the end of the model year (Oct/Nov). He had his own financing in place, so I offered invoice, minus rebate plus doc, reg and taxes. The first thing the dealer did was ask how I got the number. Naturally, I played the game and asked could he do it? He really wanted to know how I got the number. So, I wrote it all up for him and he took it to the manager. He said we had a deal but he changed the line items (reducing selling price, but raising doc, etc) however, the end result was the same. In the end that's all that matters, but for this particular dealer he wanted to see the "facts" before committing.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
True. But, I think the majority of the time it is used as a sales/negotiation ploy.
It's up to the dealership whether my number is right or wrong. Personally, I think it's right, otherwise I wouldn't have made the offer. I wasn't asking them to sell it to me at a loss, or even break even. Yeah, it's a skinny deal....especially for a brand that's considered selling "lux" vehicles. Still, it's up to them to accept, or reject it. They rejected it.
As I've chronicled. I make one offer. I don't come in under invoice and go through the bump routine. I tell them it's a "one offer" endeavor. IF they would have accepted it, done deal. I'd be driving a new car right now.
I don't take any of it personally if my offers are rejected. Only they know what kind of margins they have to make on their cars. I don't know that.
My trade is a separate deal. I may have done a little give and take on it if they were closer to what I was thinking. But, they weren't. What's the point going forward? I may have very well misjudged what the Tahoe is worth, too. I know trade-0ins are always going to come in well under what it would bring if I were to sell it on my own. But, I'm weighing that with the tax advantage on buying the Acura.
The only resources available to me to put a number on my Tahoe are KBB and NADA. I don't have access to Black Book, which some dealers use. Nor, do I have access to the Manhiem reports. I'm using what's available to me.
That also doesn't preclude the possibility I may have misjudged the market for the Acura. But, there's only one way I know of to find out. Present my offer and see if it's accepted.....go see if the 2nd dealer rejects my offer. If they do, I'll know I'm off. I'll come back home and redo my offer and give it another shot.
But, given that TL sales are down, and stock levels are up, my thought process is where it is.
Sometimes, they looked up the wrong model number or they think some long gone incentive is still in effect. Or " a friend" bought one for that price?
What they don't know is the fact that if their "friend" bought from us, I have the ability to pull up and print the friend's Purchase Order.
" Well, have you seen the car your friend bought?" " No, not yet"
" It looks like your friend got an incredible deal, but you want the CRV with leather, and your friend bought the EX with cloth...if you'll take a cloth car, I'll do the same deal for you"
Have to be very careful in doing this not to embarass the customer or make them angry in the process!
The consumer has to rely on the numbers they see in the various guides but the current market can be quite different. Should gas spike to 4.50 a gallon again, that Tahoe will take a MAJOR hit in value. Now that gas is "only" 3.00 a gallon it seems people have come to accept that.
The Mainheim Auction Reports are probably the best indicator. If a dealer can go to the local auction and pay 20,000 for a nice Tahoe, it's a hard stretch to pay 22,000 for a trade especially when they are making next to nothing on the new car sale.
When a customer gets walked it's usually because there just isn't any room to go.
I also agree that there's still some skittishness about gas prices (can't figure out the reasoning for this last runnup, just like I couldn't figure out the reason for $4/gal, either). But, it could happen, which would dampen demand for big SUVs.
However, I've seen some pretty big swings from dealer to dealer on used car values.
I think my new car offer is good, until I hear from someone else it's not. IT may not be all the money the dealer wants (it never is). But, I feel it's a doable number. One dealer disagrees with me. That's OK. If two dealers tell me it's "undoable" then I know it's not. I'll go home, and adjust it accordingly.
It's always the prevailing market that determines what a dealer is willing to sell a car for.
Or you could wait 18 days and see if it flies then.
That sounds reasonable. The time I was asked that questiion, I thought the offer more than acceptable. It was for a Kia Sportage, which came with a high advertising and doc. fee. So, probably didn't leave much if any money for them.
Lindsay, I won't deal with. Lots of reasons, but I'll just let it go at that.
Columbus Acura, I know of but not familiar with.
Long and short of it, I'm still confident in my number.
I'm betting that your Costco guy is going to call you back... We already know he wants the car. (he made an offer).. you just have to settle on price..
EDIT: Great deals on the G, right now... More car for the money, IMO..
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As an example thre are forums where people go and post wht they paid. Sometimes these numbers are dead impossible to attain and the shoppers get frustrated when I can't match or beat a number that never happened.
Then some shoppers "know" what their trade in's are worth because they see what others are asking even though the asking numbers may be wishful thinking.
I' comtinue to be amazed at the time, effort and pain some people will put themselves through in their zeal to not pay one more penny than someone else did...or said they did!
I think the Costco Guy probably shopped all over and compared only to realize this is the Tahoe he really wants.
I have people do this all of the time only to have the car sold out from under them to someone else who realized it was a good deal.
I only enjoy that when I was the peospn who sold the car to that other shopper!
After the test drive the salesman takes the offer to SM and comes back with tears on his eyes. The salesman said that the manager told him that the salesman will be fired because he is trying to get a no profit deal for his friends, unless we can show them how we came up with our offer. We showed them the internet print out, and they excepted the offer. The manager came back and asked us to show him how to get to the web site, and said no wander we can't make any money anymore.
The moral of the story is, sometimes justifying your number can work to your advantage.
Went on ebay and checked on 07 tahoes. A few sold for 24-25k -- lots haven't sold. If the cosco guy calls back tell him to check to see your price is fair. Especially with the maintenance log. The truth is that if he wants a nice tahoe he won't find one better equipped or cared for than yours. No disappointments. And baby even has a new pair of shoes.
Just one more thing to consider, if you really do love the car (which it seems like you do), don't settle for something else because it is a better deal or walk away over a few hundred dollars. Once you're driving the car & really enjoying it, the price you paid doesn't matter.
Case in point, I overpaid for my 2010 Acura TSX w/ technology pkg back at the end of August during the cash 4 clunkers melée. In my area, hondas & acuras pretty much go for invoice (give or take) - I know this from the lease deals I see week after week in the paper. I found a dealer willing to take my clunker in on the last day of c4c & sell me my TSX for $1000 off of MSRP. It ended up being $1500 over invoice. Today there are incentives on the TSX & I'm sure I could get it for under invoice + 2.9% financing. Today I've got over 7000 miles on the car and love it. The price I paid is irrelevant. I'm going to keep it for at least 100-150,000 miles. Just food for thought.
Good luck & keep us posted.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Yup, in 5 years time it won't matter at all if you paid $200 too much for the car. It all balances out. I see people on HGTV and they won't pay an extra $2000 for a $350,000 house. Over the 20 year mortgage we are talking about $100 a year, and in the meantime the house is worth twice as much.
In the big scheme of things, it isn't worth losing the car you want over a few hundred bucks.....in 3 or 4 years it won't mean a whole lot, but at least you'll enjoy the car.
However, GG, I think you are on the skinny side on the new car, which is ok if you find a dealer who is a little desparate (no harm in trying), but if Tahoes are selling for $24k then the dealer can't give you $24k for your trade in.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
He is missed by all of us who knew him. A great guy who left his family and friends way too early.
Story dealer tried on me was that it was required.
I had the copy of the state ORC code about it indicating that it was only a maximum, if any had to be charged at all.
Then it was that they had to charge everyone the same or they could be sued. I suggested they cite a case where that happened.
I stated giving off body language we were leaving on the first try when they slipped it in after lying to me about what I was calling title and required temp license fee. They included that in their fees.
I suggested they could charge whatever they wanted but my total was XXXXX.
We rapidly reached a final agreement after that. There were black cars at other dealers and were were nearing 10:45 am and i had started the morning with the salesman indicating other dealers had the exact same car I was interested in and I wanted to hit them if we didn't make a deal.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The question that comes to mind is is there any ethical issues with discussing with a customer what another customer purchased and/or paid?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I ran into this scenario 2 months ago where a customer wanted same deal as his coworker.
The coworker said he got a vehicle for $XXXXX amount, a number that was not possible under any circumstances. I confirmed by looking at that deal and found that that's not the actual price he paid. It was much more.
When I mentioned to my customer that those figures are not real, he wouldn't believe me, saying his coworker would never lie to him.
I couldn't discuss exactly how much his friend paid (privacy issues) but I told my customer that it was much more than what he's claiming.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'm not quite sure how it works on the dealer's side, for example if they pay some fee to AMEX to send them leads. But, all you're supposed to do is to get the internet quote, take it to the dealer, and close the deal. AMEX guarantees the price will be adhered to.
Although not a long drive for me (maybe 90 minutes), before I made that trek I wanted to make sure the offer is real.
I call them up. Make contact with their "internet person". Tell them I've got their AMEX price and would like to set up an appointment to come look at their selection as I'm in the market right now.
I tell them I've got their quote via AMEX. I email it to the internet person at Lindsay, along with the AMEX terms that Lindsay is an "authorized" AMEX partner and guarantees the price.
I also include the color combos I'm looking for as well as the configuration I want.
Internet person confirms receiving my email with the AMEX info.
I ask, "any of those colors and configurations a problem?" "Nope, we've got what you want." I'm thinking "wow...this is going to be too easy, and a great deal." I ask the sales person to send the buyers order back to me with all the numbers just to confirm, along with a day/time would work for him so I can make the drive up.
I wait, one day, two days, three days.....nothing comes back. Finally, I call back the internet sales person asking where the buyer's order is.
"ummm....what?"
Understand, he and I emailed at least 6-7 times. Probably talked 4 times more on the phone, confirming colors and the price. So, I was a little taken aback that he didn't seem to know what I was talking about. Requested the buyers order confirming price and color/config, again be sent to me.
Two days go by, not a peep from him.
I write them off.
A few days later, I get a call from the internet sales person asking if I was still interested in doing a deal.
"Well, yeah, but I'm not going to make the trip until you can confirm the information. You have all of my info, sent it to you no less than 3 times via email, and at least 3 times over the phone."
"Yeah, we can't do that deal and we don't have the colors you requested. But, I'm certain we can work something out if you come in."
Quite a difference from my first contact. I explain that according to the AMEX terms, AMEX guarantees the deal. So, they may want to contact AMEX. LIttle irritated but at least I didn't make the 90 minute drive to their store.
Over the course of the next week, I get calls from 3 other different people at Lindsay trying to get me to come in and "do a deal". I tell all of them of the deal I had with the internet person via AMEX, and relay what happened. Same request to them....send me a buyers order confirming the price advertised on the AMEX purchase plan. No response.
Finally, the last person who contacts me, I request that their Sales Manager contact me. Get a nasty email back from him telling me, in essence, to "pound sand".
Now, I'm a fairly laid back guy. I like to think I'm a courteous and polite person.....relatively affable. But, when someone is rude and insulting to me, that really irritates me.
I call Lindsay, asking to speak to the General Manager. Got his voice mail, stating my case and how to reach me, with both my phone number and email address.
Never heard a word back.
In short, will never look to ever do business with them.
I'm sure there are others that would come down on the other side of the G vs TL debate....especially because there's a price differential in the favor of the G.
Shopped the Tahoe to a couple of different dealers last night for them to put a straight buy number on it.
Heavy rains kept me from doing everything I wanted last night as far as shopping.
But, I think I'm going to have an actual car "BOUGHT" story for the group here today.
I went to the site and was stunned as well. I entered Acura, 2010, TL. Website :
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Looks like one dealer to avoid. Those places that have to have you in the store for whatever reason (size you up and weigh your wallet) won't do for me either.
That type of store usually bombards the buyer with 2 or 3 sales guys all trying to find your buttons.
My time ends in those stores when I agree to their "off the wall" price with my counter of "OK I'll take it, but I have a money acquisition fee that exceeds all the gravy you put on the buyers price side". Stalemate, Exit, No chance of return.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I have also asked the customer to simply get a copy of the Purchase Order from his "friend" and bring it in. Of course, this has never happened.
I accomplish a lot by just acting dumb when people lie to me.
AMEX are usually quite responsive to their individual customers and it's likely they'd want to put things right, especially as Lindsay's attitude would make such poor publicity for the AMEX purchase program.
Sounds like both parties are using the other to generate business. Don't know if you want to go to the trouble, but I would consider filing a complaint with AMEX and the BBB. AMEX should be the responsible party in ensuring the dealership follows thru with the price guarantee.
I had taken my Kroger card (grocery chain) into a Valvoline Instant Oil change for a cardholder discount a few years ago. The owner gave me the regular price oil change. I then stated I had a Kroger card and was due a $5 discount. He lied and said the discount had already been applied... before I said I even had the card. I suppose the guy could have been a mind reader. I complained to Kroger management, they said they would look into it. Who knows. They never got back with me. :sick:
There is another site that allows you to solicit multiple bids --- autobrag.com. They call it braggle and you can send an offer and will recieve counters or ok's from several dealers. Your info is not shared with them so the bids are anonymous. No cost or obligation -- have fun and good luck.
GG, I would be pretty mad by about now, and as a matter of principle, I would call AMEX to see what is going on. I am pretty laid back too, and I doubt if this dealer is worth buying a car from, but I think at minimum, AMEX should know what is going on.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Hey Mako, I saw on the news the other night they had an interview with the owner of a used car lot in Canada (the largest used car lot in North America - Haldimand Motors).
He said Toyotas are selling just as well as ever and he doesn't discount them at all. He said if he could find more he would buy them up as fast as he can get them.
Is your Avalon still in the garage? It looks like you should have no trouble selling it.
They think the last Prius runaway car could be a scam, because he didn't throw it into nutral even though that is what they told him to do. Who knows any more :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We get the same deal at a local oil change chain and our grocery chain. They have it in their system so when we get the oil changed they automatically apply the discount.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Back in 1994 my wife was looking for a new SUV. We both liked the Mitsubishi Montero SR. While listening to WLW(a Cincinnati radio station that can be picked up in Louisville) I heard an ad from a Cinci Mitsubishi dealer(Kerry or Performance, IIRC) advertising that "all new Mitsubishis would be sold at invoice." I gave them a call and asked if they had any SRs in stock. "Sure do." I asked what the invoice price was and the idiot replied, "Well, you'd need to come in and then we'll try to work down to invoice."
I hung up.
Jackasses... :mad: :mad: :mad:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Me too, after they pulled all that crap I'd certainly try to return the favor.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive