Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,556
    You never know what the particulars of the other deal is. One store might be giving the new car away @ invoice, but is giving $4000 less on the trade in. There are so many variables.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Sebring, huh? The buy this car from Richard? Is there mud or dog poop on it?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Sense of entitlement !! The UAW has it. They feel ,we the taxpayer "owe" them for their substandard shoddy quality and work !! LOL!! :P
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    edited August 2010
    Craig,the problem is that those prices indeed did happen . And that price is the price on the buyer`s order sheet. So the customer thinks that he got the new car for the low listed price on the buyer`s order. But they do not reveal the trade in price or the mop and glo added, the inflated ext warr price or the high finance rate they get. And that is the main culprit. :sick:

    I feel that when people post their purchase price,they should also list their traded in car and it`s offered value and the finance rate they get. That will tell the whole picture. Hope the mods add this to their policy b`cos without the whole deal the price paid is absolutely meaningless.

    Just have these rows filled out in the prices paid forum :
    1.New car details + it`s Purchase Price
    2.Used car details + Trade value offered
    3.Finance rate
    4.Any negative equity

    Then it would make the actual transaction clear and would give the best estimate as to what the new car sold for. Hope the mods incorporate this into the prices paid forums !!! :P :shades:
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Good idea. OTD is all that ever mattered since the very first car was ever sold.
    And too few people grasp it. Whatever happened to the term "bottom line"?

    It is, afterall, the line at the very bottom!
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    " I don't know how I did it but that's a good kid."

    Boy, you sure got that right. Well done to the two of you :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    In my example, I wasn't thinking about trades or anything else. I was just talking about the base price of a car.

    The people that always amazed me are the ones who go to the forums AFTER they have taken delivery and ask "Did I pay too much?"

    Without fail, someone will ALWAYS jump in and tell them that they got ripped.

    I think some of the "bad info" in the forums isn't a result of downright lying. I think people forget what they paid. I know I would! I also think some of it as puffery and, yes, maybe that other store underallowed on their trade in by a thousand dollars.

    Something that used to amuse me were the people who had listened to some "expert" and tried to conceal the fact they had a trade in.

    Any expereinced person can always smell a hidden trade and it's annoying when they get sprung on us after all of the paperwork has been done.

    If it has 150,000 miles, we KNOW that they were "all" highway miles. The wholesaler isn't going to care and neitehr are the people (if any) bidding at the auction.

    If the A/C isn't working we know it doesn't "just need a charge".

    If the check engine light is on, we assume it's the worst possible thing it can be so don't tell me it "just" came on and that's it's "probably" just something minor.

    I was told that once on a traded in Outback. The next week we took it to the Subaru dealer to have it fixed.

    Guess what? The people who traded it in had it in there the week before. It needed a new cat convertor and some sensor for an estimate of 1400.00!

    Never been wrecked? Just because the Car Fax is clean doesn't mean it wasn't involved in a 12,000 head on collision! Yep, had that one too!

    Funny how people tried to outsmart me!
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    I have been back to the dealer 4 or 5 times and they say the electrical problems can't be fixed under warranty.

    Sounds like a bogus question to me. He's taken the car to the dealership "4 or 5 times" for electrical problems, yet the dealership can't fix electrical problems under warranty. Why'd he keep bringing it in then, hoping he'd wear the dealership down and they'd change their mind? And since when aren't electrical problems fixed under warranty? Sorry... only silver star for you driver. :P
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2010
    So the 'messenger' is prone to Star degradation? Geez.. :P

    And here I had this great story to share..
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    edited August 2010
    If the A/C isn't working we know it doesn't "just need a charge".

    Someone once asked me how good was the A/C on my Sebring. My reply was, works good, top comes down every time. Truth be told I have never run the A/C in that car, I have always took the top down.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I've owned several convertables and I used the A/C plenty.

    When it's 90 degrees and high noon, I don't WANT the top down!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    As long as its above 50 and not raining the top goes down. I have had the top down in triple digit temps.

    Now my wife will have the top up in hot weather with the A/C on when she drives it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    " (via a great iPhone app called "Gas Cubby". As my TL breaks in more (almost 4K miles) MPG is going up. That's a good thing."

    GG--

    Great minds must think alike since "Gas Cubby" is how I knew I had last filled my Mazda on 6/2/10. You might wonder why someone who drives so little would get the app, but I thought it would be fun to keep track of my wife's expenditures (and gas mileage, of course) on her Scion (you never heard that from me). However, I am keeping track of my maintenance and body shop costs for the Mazda. I really would like to get the car back since my bike commuting for the last couple of weeks has been in 100+ degree weather every day and, at 53, it's wearing on me.

    As for the sense of entitlement I see it everyday in the classroom, but it is made most manifest when grades are distributed. A great many of our future leaders feel that since "they" paid for the class they deserve and A. Most of my biggest battles are not with students who are failing or getting Cs or Ds, but, rather it's with students who received a B and think they should have gotten an A. My wife announced to me that she would no longer teach a business communication course for the business college--despite the good pay. The student smugness, arrogance and their "grade entitlement" were more than she could stomach. It's not as though she hasn't seen some of that over the last 20 years while teaching technical writing and English composition, but this overt display was pretty remarkable.

    Gogiboy
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't know how you could take 100 degree heat beating down on your head.

    Of course, I won't be caught dead wearing any kind of a hat so maybe that helps you?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Well when you are moving it isn't so bad.

    And yes I wear a hat, that is something you really should do if your going to be out in the sun for anything over say 20 minutes (be it in a convertible, walking, gardening or whatever) regardless of the temperature.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, I know and I do hike a lot.

    Luckilly I still have all of my hair. I just don't like wearing any kind of a hat.

    I just don't like wearing hats.
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    I would assume that if the car was totalled, it had a salvage title, and wouldn't be covered by warranty.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    edited August 2010
    So the 'messenger' is prone to Star degradation? Geez..

    Good point gimme, I am just telling the stupid story. How do I know why he took it back 5 times. I think each problem was different, but I don't know. Even more interesting would be to know if this guy is still friendly with his friend who sold him the car.....and told him he had bought it new!

    You are right, I think I should get a full gold star! :D

    At least an E for effort for a real sales story.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    And since when aren't electrical problems fixed under warranty? Sorry... only silver star for you driver

    See above.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    As long as its above 50 and not raining the top goes down. I have had the top down in triple digit temps.

    Personally, I use the air conditioner 94% of the time. I like the top down if the temp is 68 to 80 and preferably cloudy. Also evenings are great. Also, has to be a fairly long trip, not much use in going to get groceries and putting the top up and down continually just for a 4 minute trip.

    I love having the top down under those conditions, but I like having a good a/c unit.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Good point about the groceries, I usally keep the top up if it is already up. However I can still roll down the windows. Since it is only about a mile rolling down the windows makes perfect sense.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    rather it's with students who received a B and think they should have gotten an A

    I can fully attest to that! Then there are those who put off their math courses until the very last semester and they put the burden on me! "If I don’t pass this course I won't graduate and my whole life will be ruined ..." I am sure these are the same people you see on the front lines every day - either selling or buying. ;)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    At least an E for effort for a real sales story.

    Here it is! E

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,821
    edited August 2010
    I'm with you. I don't care how hot and sunny it is, if I am driving my convertible, I want the top down. If it's too cold, I just don't drive it.
    I have a tonneau cover that can be a pain to put on or remove, so once it is on I like to leave it like that. I do have a fabric cockpit cover that I put on when parking it outside for any length of time.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,556
    Like you've said before, it never ceases to amaze me how truly cheap people are. I sell 2 types of chrome speedy valves (the chrome valves underneath your kitchen & bathroom sinks, & toilet).

    One has a chrome body with plastic stem & rubber washer that you need to turn multiple times to shut it off & back on again. These break very easily and after a few years, the washer wears out or people try to shut their water off and they break the stem.

    The other has a chrome body with a metal ball inside. 1/4 turn on, 1/4 turn off. No parts to break, you KNOW if it is on or off.

    The price difference is $2.25 - guess how many people decline the better valve?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    On my car its all automatic, the trunk opens up the tonneau cover pops out and the top folds into the trunk then the trunk closes. all neat and automatic.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,556
    well, the only one I ever had was my Miata, and I did not have that very long.

    but it said in the manual not to put the top up/down if it was less than 42. so, at 43, it went down. Got some funny looks, but heck, that is how it was meant to be driven.

    Flip your collar up, windows up, heat on, and good to go.

    then again, I am the person with my moonroof open when it is 90/sunny or in the 30's.

    I just like air overhead I guess!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,394
    I don't know how I did it but that's a good kid.

    Agreed. I think I've mentioned that my son is eager to drive my 1975 2002; the lack of power steering and A/C may cool his enthusiasm, but who knows. I'm surprised by how many of his friends think that the old sled is very cool.
    Oh yeah, a borderline sales story-
    I'm looking into building one of these:
    image
    It's a GKD Legend- a Lotus 7 replica kit car designed to take BMW 3 Series running gear.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    I know one group that will decline the better valve -- home builders.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Here it is! E

    Thanks a bunch!

    Here I am working my butt off trying
    to come up with something.
    I might just go out
    and buy that white BMW
    Cabriolet with red seats
    so I can get a real gold star.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    The price difference is $2.25 - guess how many people decline the better valve?

    I will never understand that. The labor is the most expensive
    or at least time consuming part of any job, so why not pay
    the extra amount and get the part that will last, as opposed
    to the part you will have to spend an hour replacing...or
    pay someone 2 hours of labor to replace.

    Same with a car. It is better to pay a little extra and
    get what you want and get a better car in the first place.
    An Aveo might be cheap initially, but for a few hundred dollars more
    you can get a Hyundai or even Malibu which will hold
    up much better. They both cost about the same as
    far as labor to put them together, transportation,
    advertising, profit are all similar, so you are basically paying
    to get much better parts...that will probably last longer.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    know one group that will decline the better valve -- home builders.

    Good point. Cheapest parts possible, they don't care,
    they won't be around when the house falls apart.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    they won't be around when the house falls apart.

    The company that built mine is still around and has gone beyond the call of duty with our house. In a couple of cases well after the subdivision was complete and long after any warranty expired. One of those cases something in the house failed and while they didn't have to replace it they did. In another case they called us up stating that they did something wrong and would be coming out to fix it, this was something that no one would have discovered just by being in the house (IIRC they did this repair to half the houses in the subdivision).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    The company that built mine is still around

    You are very fortunate. I have seen new houses built with bathtub drains that peel apart....looks like metal but it seems to be built out of cardboard. There were several houses built by a builder in town, and the basement is actually cracking right across the width of the floor....a total break and the sides are uneven with a big gap. Another house doesn't have the roof fastenned to the house.

    Unfortunately the city didn't inspect the house before it was completed. The builder does this, and when buyers complain he goes out of business and opens under a new name. This time they did catch up to him.

    Our house was built by a retired contractor who takes a lot of pride in his work and only uses the best materials. I think we were lucky too, because a lot of builders are in it for a fast buck...don't even get started on dry wall from China.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2010
    Gosh, you said a mouthful there, driver..
    I know about the Chinese drywall that emits 100 times as much hydrogen sulfide as drywall made elsewhere, though. I have read a fair bit about the incredible grief and poor health this garbage (you do know they get rid of their garbage over there by inserting it into items they produce for sale right? This includes lead in innocent children's toys, that they know FULL WELL will harm these innocent kids?And they are STILL, in 2010, doing it! Same with vitamins and even prescription drugs.) drywall has caused, especially all through a lot of the rebuilding from Katrina..as if these poor people didn't have enough to contend with..:(

    Anyway, this all kept going through my mind as I was in a Hyundai showroom a couple weeks ago. And every time I pick up an item to see where it was made..Yes, I have been doing that for over two years and urge my friends to also. Some of them think I am over-reacting a bit with my concerns over the unfairly sided poor trade agreements that the USA and Canada have with them. Our guy even said at the recent G8 that he wants to double (or triple, i forget) trade with China in the next 3 years! Ugh.. And I am far from being a wealthy man. I would love to buy my Made in America items at Chinese prices. But a fact that too few of us over here are realizing, is that a LOT of that Chinese cr*p, is just that. Junk; that often does fail even while still under wty, but the return policies are often elusive enough people just add it to our landfill heights instead, and rationalize that; "well, I didn't pay that much for it anyway.." :(

    Newsflash!....no....I still don't own a Hyundai.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yep, but it sounds like you are trying to avoid the Chinese junk.

    How about the guy who spent hours replacing his A/C compressor on his CRV but cheaped out and installed a Chinese unit?

    This is why Wal-Mart contunues to prosper.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    edited August 2010
    (you do know they get rid of their garbage over there by inserting it into items they produce for sale right?

    I saw a thing on the news about the catfish they catch in the rivers in China.
    The fish of course have eaten all kinds of toxic chemicals that are in the water....and of course it gets into the people who eat those fish.

    Remember, the powdered milk which was altered, to pass the
    tests, but it had chemicals that were killing babies.
    The execs went to prison for a long time.
    That is something they should do here.

    The guidelines just aren't very stringent.
    Best to pay a bit more if you can be certain the quality
    will be ther...why take chances for a few $$$$$s

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    It's true, I am trying to avoid Chinese junk, and at times it costs me. But I still have to live with myself and the moral values I live by.

    But the problem, when you start digging, is that the rules in place regarding how packaging is labelled and where stuff is made, needs a complete overhaul by someone in power without all the hidden agendas. Lately there has been some attention on making the rules better for us as the consumer to be more informed.

    Not long ago (and still to a great degree) paackaging was allowed to say Made in America, if just the 'cost' of the packaging (which was apparently made over here) was greater than the pkg contents by a certain percentage...I forget the exact numbers. But it even got more elusive than that if the packaging was labelled here before it was shipped overseas to have the product fill the package, etc etc . If you start digging you will find a discouraging maze of if-ands-or-buts.

    And it sure isn't like that by accident. But things are getting slightly better...for now...or so they claim..

    Regarding the A/C compressor..somewhere on that thread I read that someone bought a compressor that said Made in Japan, but found out later by brand name or something that that was BS and that it actually was Chinese made! You likely saw that post too.
    So...ya see? They have things unclear for those of us who want to support our nation, even if we are prepared to pay more to support those morals.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2010
    Yup, I know, but see my post just now to, i sell. It's purposely not that simple. All we can do is try to educate ourselves and our kids. Change that is required takes time, and in economic times like we are in now, the job of convincing the masses that in order to help correct our situation, we have to anti up some extra of our hard earned bucks in order to get things turned around, is made that much tougher.
    We have let the cost of living race too far ahead. And things are way outta whack now. Bring back the 25 cent loaf of bread, and charge about 60 cents for it or so to reflect todays times instead of 2.50. (Cdn pricing)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    I would assume that if the car was totalled, it had a salvage title, and wouldn't be covered by warranty

    ... which is why I asked why the owner brought the car in "4 or 5 " times?
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    edited August 2010
    Good point gimme, I am just telling the stupid story.

    I was just joking about the silver star thing driver. It was a good entertaining story. Glad to have one. Your posts are always "gold star" material to me. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    W2I would assume that if the car was totalled, it had a salvage title, and wouldn't be covered by warranty
    JIP ... which is why I asked why the owner brought the car in "4 or 5 " times?


    I left out one thing which might clarify that...might, and might not. To keep the story brief, I left out that the car was in an accident in another province (which would be like a different state). That might affect whether that kind of information was actually available...I don't know.

    Maybe the garage can see that the car is not on file for warranty work, but maybe they don't know the reason.

    It is very possible the buyer exaggerated, just to make his story sound more convincing, so the consumer advocate would look into it.

    Hope that helps.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    I was just joking about the silver star thing driver. It was a good entertaining story

    Much appreciated! :)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    You know...best thing that could happen at this point (since he's been lied to and taken) is if someone could actually salvage some decent use out of this car. Assuming the collision repairs have been done fairly well structurally, then maybe wiring really is the only issue he may have.

    And a good jobber shop who gives a darn about more than just ripping him off, could, systematically find the circuit(s) that are allowing resistance or weak grounds, but putting an amp meter on the battery. And one by one pull fuses until the current draw alleviates. That would tell you which circuit is suspect. It becomes a bit more complicated, but still totally doable if you have to run the car in real life, to get it to do what it does when it screws up. So many hands and ears in it that is hard to troubleshoot from here. I wonder if he could provide more details, the more exact the better, and maybe we could point him in the right direction to at least get started? It might cost him instead of wty, but maybe not as much as he/we think depending on where the wiring woes are and the jobber shop he chooses. It could be an easy fast find in under an hour or of course could be more involved depending on the circuit(s) involved. The car is in GTA area ON, driver? If so I know a few shops in GTA that we might be able to steer him to, although I am quite out of touch so don't know if retired or not.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No question it can be fixed just not under warranty.

    A good shop that specials in auto electrical work can track it down although it may be labor intensive.
  • oldcemoldcem Member Posts: 309
    I got a bunch of insults from the Honda Forums guys when I indicated that my 2010 CRV got better fuel economy on premium gas. First Honda I've owned in years and it seems fairly ok other than its pretty gutless and doesn't get great gas mileage on 87 octane gas. Anyway I can appreciate your flustration with the buying public - I was in the drugstore business for 13 years, and, handled collections on our in-house charge accounts as part of my job. Never heard so much BS in my whole life. Some of these dummies would tell me - "I'm never going to do business with your stores again" - not realizing it was a blessing - because they had no intention of ever paying for the goods they'd walked out the door with. Over the years I wore a bunch of them out using a local lawyer and magistrate court.

    Regards:
    OldCEM
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    You said "Most of my biggest battles are not with students who are failing or getting Cs or Ds, but, rather it's with students who received a B and think they should have gotten an A. "

    Reminds me of my college Calculus I class. The teacher gave 'partial credit' on test questions. A calculus answer could run to multiple pages, and if you got 'part way thru' the answer correctly, he would give this work partical credit.

    The teacher handed out graded test papers. Next day (Calculus classes met every day) a student, Joe, spoke up with something along the line of "Teach, you only gave me 4 points partial credit on Question 3 and you gave Sam 7 points partial credit on his answer...."

    Mr. Mullens, a very good teacher, immediately came back with "Great, Joe, you bring your test paper up here and get Sam to bring his paper up here, and I will reduce Sam's partial credit to 4, just like yours."

    Mr. Mullens didn't take no s--- in his class.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    I left out one thing which might clarify that...might, and might not. To keep the story brief, I left out that the car was in an accident in

    Seems to me like it was a pretty relevant detail. :sick:
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "This includes lead in innocent children's toys, that they know FULL WELL will harm these innocent kids?"

    How do we know that those kids are innocent? Most of the children I know are guilty as hell...of something--and it only gets worse as they "mature". :P

    Now, I'm all for bombing the factories that make the poisoned pet food being sold to us for our dogs and cats. Or I guess I could try to buy food that's actually still grown/manufactured in the US

    Gogiboy
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    It could be an easy fast find in under an hour or of course could be more involved depending on the circuit(s) involved

    Gimme, the fellow was writing from the GTA area. The columnist who writes the column told him to go to an Automobile Club garage to get some repairs done honestly.

    The big problem is these cars that are written off are usually patched together with parts from several cars. The chances it will ever run properly are not great. I have seen where they put these cars together again and since most cars are built on platforms, it is impossible to get it exactly as it should be. Tolerances are within a fraction of a centimeter and that can't be done by patching a car together. I think he will always have problems with this car, even if he gets the elecrical stuff fixed. Keep in mind it is a 2008 Sebring ex-rental car with over $14k damage. I think they wrote it off for a good reason.

    I'll let you know if I see any more about it.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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