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Comments
VERDUGO Seems to me like it was a pretty relevant detail
Probably in retrospect you are right. Just to explain, I left it out because the car was bought in Ontario and the car was written off in Quebec. I thought that might be too confusing to add, and I didn't think that was the reason the warranty might not be honored. It would be like buying the car in New Jersey and buying it in New York I suppose, not sure if the records follow a car from state to state.
Also, I typed the original story from the newspaper, and that is a long slow process for me. I was surprised I got through as much as I did.
Those aren't excuses, and I will try to add all details to any future stories, so we don't waste time trying to solve a problem without all the facts. If you think about it, adding in Quebec and explaining what provinces are could have lost a few people...so it was a calculated miscalculation.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree isell. Like I say in 2 posts above though, an ex-rental unit car with over $14000 worth of damage is never going to be a very good car. I mean, it was written off for a very good reason. Who knows what else will go wrong?
He should probably take his so-called friend to court....that might actually end up being cheaper than trying to fix things all the time.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That really depends. With the cost of parts and labor today 14K isn't that much. My GF smashed her two day old Elantra into the back of a work truck. No damage to the truck at all and her car was still driveable ended up being 9K worth of damage (with no airbag deployment) After two years and 20K miles the car is still perfect.
I think the insurance companies have a pretty good idea whether a car is salvagable or not. They wouldn't write it off unless it was worth more than the cost of repairs. Insurance companies are really stingy these days.
If you put a car back together with parts a $25k car will probably cost over $100k.
I think in your case the car was still driveable, and though it is a lot of money, $9000, the damage seems to be mostly cosmetic and light...not major parts.
That looks like a fairly new Sonata, so it might have been worth $14 or $15k, so is borderline worth fixing. If 4 years old it would be cheaper to write off.
My GF smashed her two day old Elantra
What is a GF? I thought it would be grandfather, but it says "her" car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
when i tried to check the rear tire pressure with the gauge i usually use, it just got pushed off the valve and i couldn't get a reading.
then i just started putting some air in the rear tires. usually i count to 45 to 60 and check it. this time i counted to 300 before i checked it.
broke out my old analog 'pro' tire gauge to get a reading.
told the family we are asking the explorer to do an expedition's job.
tomorrow we are going to add 4 people plus luggage for 3 people. :surprise:
And damage nowadays is not just cosmetic or visible. A lot is invisible-frame damage,airbag malfunction ,electronics and sensors damage--a ll of which cant be seen by the naked eye. Cars nowadays are built so accurately with the specs close to millimeters and even a few mm of change or displacement can cause driveability issues. The alignments and the computerized manufacturing makes it really tough to repair it back to the original manufactured specs ,more so by a non dealer .
I would not take a chance on car with an estimated 14k damage. Who knows what else was damaged that is not known immediately or even within 2 or 3 years. Problems can resurface after that. Just my opinion though. :P
Thanks Del.........maybe we should clarify as we have been asked to do with model numbers.
I suppose if I thought long enough it would have come to me.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It was 9K for the Elantra, 14K would certainly have totaled it. The factory warranty is still valid, as it was not a salvage/rebuilt title. Yes, I am sure resale was/is going to take a hit.
Cars can be fixed after accidents, and be perfectly fine. The Elantra is driven daily and I took it on 1000 mile roadtrip. It tracks perefectly straight, the tires are wearing even and it is secure.
I am not sure that I would buy a vehicle that I knew was in a serious collision, however, if you are unfortunate enough to own one that was its not the end of the world (except when you goto sell it).
The pic I posted is the Elantra right after the accident requiring 9K to fix. It had around 200 miles on it.
Driver, allow me to introduce you to my friends, copy and paste. :P
Seriously, what were you thinking tying all of that out? That's crazy.
As these things go, the more skilled the labor, the better the house, the car, etc.
I think that's what really got GM into trouble in the '80s (probably Ford and Chryco, too). I remember the plants around my 'burg hiring people left and right. Some of the folks I saw them employ I wouldn't hire to even cut my grass, let alone make my car. But, hire them they did. They cranked up production to a very high level in those plants at the time.
I don't remember any of those '80s cars being very well made, though.
I still see the guy (actually his crew) who built my house. He doesn't live too far away from me (but in a much nicer house). We run into each other in the coffee shop early in the morning. And, I run into him in the local restaurants around me on occasion. I had some issues when I first moved in. But, I can honestly say that after 16 years, my house is built very well. Weather tried to blow it down a couple of years ago, but my house's structure held up when everyone around me was looking at nothing but rubble.
It's a good house built by a craftsman.
The Cash for Clunkers program was a mixed blessing for us. Yes, we sold cars because of it but the paperwork and getting paid was a nightmare as you might expect.
It also brought out some interesting, creative and unappreciative customers. For some, it was like they were empowered and in reality, they were.
Some tried EVERY TRICK to persuade us into taking in cars that didn't qualify etc and they whined like babies when their clunker didn't qualify for the higher amount.
Thry tried to drag out cars that had been sitting unregistered and uninsured for years and then theyy tried to con us or fudge the paperwork. We run a very tight ship and some had tantrums when they didn't get their way.
Ah, but the best one of all...Being nice here and Politically Correct, let's just say I had a "challenging" customer who after three trips and several harrowing test drives, struck a nothing deal on a new Civic. By the time it ended, I was sick and tired of him. He was driving a late model car that he said he wouldn't be trading in.
At the very end, as I prepared to send him into finance, he smirked at me and told me he needed to go homw to get his clunker that he intended to trade in.
I should heve smelled it coming but I didn't. I was blindsided.
So, he left. An hour later, he called me to ask where the tow truck should drop the clunker. What??
It seems, on the way in, it threw a rod and quit running!
I let him know that the car had to rrrive under it's own power. those were the rules and we intended to abide by them.
Oh, how he whined and sniveled! He even offered to bribe me!
We ended up doing the deal only his 4500.00 clunker ended up at a junkyard!
This is a story that has the other side of the coin..
Now, I know that in this thread it might not be appreciated here, but it (told below) is real world and did/does happen. Let's consider 'cause and affect'. There are examples on both sides of the coin whereby we are caught with dirty hands. In the interest of fairness to the sellers, I will start with a potential example whereby it was the 'man on the street' trying to pull a fast one, instead of a dealer doing the dirty. I recall my father telling me that many decades ago, (he was a mechanic and discovered this one day as he pulled the cover off a customers car) sawdust was used to quell the howl of a rear diff going bad. So if they traded it in, the dealer wasn't necessarily stuck with the charges to make it right, but we all know that someone down the road (probably the first purchaser of that trade) was. And it doesn't take rocket science to know that possibly that noisy rear end started off being quelled at the dealer before the resale. These things happened! And we also know that many many years ago, one of the tricks used to help ensure a deal was going to happen was to pump up the value of the trade by using it against full retail so the buyer thinks he is getting a better deal than he really did. So as years go buy 'we' (both) become wise to each other's less than honourable (honorable) practices, and we react. We react accordingly, to the point that...fast forward to today, we have people trying to do fraudulent deals and bribes with clunker programs, or not letting on they have a trade at all...or even after two good old-fashioned handshakes on a deal, ignorantly trying to still leverage an even better deal. Some people have so little class..
In any event, this all didn't happen just over night.
Here in Cda we recently had a very nasty situation in which a local (to GTA area) Mazda dealership lost its licence to operate a dealership. And rightfully so. There have been pages and pages online written about it, but the long and short of it (and keep in mind I don't intend for us to debate this all over again here, because there are bound to be defensive gut-wrench reactions that without all the facts are meanless) but essentially what happened was a 50's something mentally challenged woman who had had her very well maintained by the dealer, car (every little thing was done by the dealer, even every single little 'suggested' thing that we know some dealers will do to increase their bottom line) (which we know would be a great trade-in car which would pull a premium as a resale) was taken badly on the sale of a used Mazda 6 with about 5000 or 6000 miles on it. Actually the dealer sold it as a new car demo.. The thing is though, she went in there for new tires only. See? How many people use their dealer to buy new tires? That's what I mean when I said she had them service every single thing to do with the car. You would think they would be happy with that type of customer right? As we all know, there is the most money to be made in the shop. But no, they weren't happy with that. An incredibly unscrupulous 'salesman' and SM, saw and acted upon an opportunity on a slow day one sleepy Saturday and took her to the cleaners like you wouldn't believe. I forget the exact figures, but they are easily Googled and confirmed, as there was court ordered documentation to support all the claims of injustice, but basically, this guy managed to sell her that new/used actually Mazda6 for like 8 grand I think it was MORE than full retail of a brand new car with ZERO miles! And offered her a pittance on her... Protege i think? trade...AND managed to swing it by getting her some ridiculous 7 year loan (with, as you can imagine she would not have good credit being on the type of disability she was on, would not have been a great % rate). Remember...this woman had an obvious mental disability and was on a gvt disability program. She was a slow and encumbered thinker who lacked the ability to reason like most of us. She had no equity in anything; only had gvt pd humble small apt in the town in which the dealer was located. No way could she afford to actually buy and own a 45 thousand buck car..but she drove away in one..
And of course it all came to a head and was exposed when she couldn't keep up with the payments which obviously must have been discovered when she would have had one of her interviews with a gvt official in the disability program. It would have been bad enough (given the circumstances) if he had charged her full list on that 5 or 6000 mile car, but he charged her so many thousand dollars MORE! And that is what outraged to courts and gvt services that we have here in Cda to protect the consumer from such unscrupulous practices. Both salemen lost their job, and the owner lost his dealership. Why? Because in the beginning he tried to defend the actions of his employees. Idiot. If you're gonna defend some lo-life slobs, at least make sure you got your conscience screwed on straight. I guess they all figured they would get away with it and end up back with the car to resell again. It's all pretty nasty, and obviously a worst case scenario of how bad it can get out there in the showroom.
What wasn't broadcast as much, was that the owner of that Mazda dealership also owned another dealership in a different town with a dif brand of car. I don't know if he was forced to close that dealership or not, but last I heard..not. Buyer beware everyone..
Now, consider also...how many people this lo-life took before he finally got caught. I guess his tactics became more and more brazen until he was finally caught dead-to-rights being trash. And it wasn't just one creep here, it was TWO +!
But this one was a long and sorted story that epitomizes the very lowest of the low that you would ever find the stories of the proverbial shyster-type car salesmen. It is guys like this arseh*le that make all of you honourable guy's lives more difficult and probaly why the Joe on the street tries to pull some of the carp that they try to pull just to try to maintain even ground.
Anyway... regarding the practice of not being forthright with each other as car sellers and car buyers. My point in this post is; it didn't start with the average Joe off the street going in with his trade vehicle and fudging paperwork. It has been a business battle, that, over the years, due to numerous new technological tools like internet and that handy cell phone that jerk used that isell ran into, has progressed (degressed?) into the push-pull challenge of car sales and Joe or Jane Average on the street
Sure it is. Anything scandalous we eat up. But this story has been posted here before, about 4 months ago.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD, 2025 Integra
Very sad.
Reminds me of a story.
Years ago, I got a call from a woman on a used car we had advertised. She asked me if I would take her old Chevy in as a trade.
" What year is your Chevy"
" Heck, I don't know. It might be a 1977. It don't stop too good"
" Will you need to have it towed in?"
" No, I can get it to stop, just not so good"
It turned out to be a 1973 POS of a Chevy that had a bad master cylinder. She drove it in traffic using the emergency brake to slow it down.
When I parked it, the brake pedel went to the floor and before I could react, I ran it into the back of (thank God) another juny car we we going to haul to the junkyard.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD, 2025 Integra
Our friend Brentwood told me that every time he got to clunk a Windstall he dedicated it to me...
You know, I have actually been working my way through a lot of theads from the beginning, but with this one at over 50000 posts I admit i jumped a round a bit here, lol.
Any idea about what page it was?
Not sure how to copy and paste from a real newspaper. I can do it from the computer, and that story wasn't on the internet.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We had been into the dealer the week before -- picking out a vehicle, agreeing on a price, and telling them we'll have the clunker when we come back to sign and pick up the vehicle.
So what was a 'running' vehicle? (I could not find any documentation in the C4C program on what is defined as a running car!)
Ours 'ran' - but would have overheated after a little while.
Ours 'ran' during the day, but would not be drivable at night since the headlights were missing.
We got the $3500 for the 'running' car. I wonder how much our sales gal had to do with that, since she had a sold vehicle pending verification on the clunker.
What really messed up some people was the requirement that the car had to be currently registered and insured in the name of the person trading it in.
It was a totally screwed up program that actually took some very nice cars off the road that people could have used.
I think "beamer" refers to BMW motorcycles while "bimmer" refers to the cars.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
But I do know that if that's the case, it's Beemer. :P
http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/archived-threads/92607-beamer-beemer-bimmer.html
FWIW, I see it spelled most often with no a.
As a "bimmer" (330i 4-dr. sedan) owner, I can attest to the correctness of your statement.
This should settle the issue.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
What a great answer. That settles it. And, I am glad someone has the time and patience to give such a complete definition.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
What novel...I am the bookman and I want to know what novel would explain the difference?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes, we did have the discussion about the poor lady. As you say, there is no need to debate the issue. The dealership was wrong and the lady's family did not or could not assist her. It was a tragic case. Some of us saw the live news interview. Having seen that, it was obvious that the poor lady should not have been driving a car, much less purchasing one.
Allow me to welcome you here. I've been on a trip and, though I have checked in each day, I haven't had time to post. Your experiences and your opinions are most appreciated on this forum. We hope that you enjoy your time here.
Richard
Yes, I don't think there are very many that don't feel badly for that woman. I hope in future she won't be signing any documents without family or guardian support.
I have to believe that that example was about as bad as it gets out there. I hope anyway..
Although some of you guys who towed in trades to the lot next door...i dunno 'bout that.. lol
steve
1. Ford Explorer---because we have enjoyed our 2003 model very much and could use the hauling space in the rear.
2. Lincoln Towncar---because it was our favorite of all time with the comfort, soft ride, and floaty feeling
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee---because we like the styling, the ride, the options, and my wife likes the size.
We have also selected our three possible color choices for the exterior: white, tan, or black. Our interior color choices are tan or cream.
We don't know which we will select but should know soon. I want to thank all of you for your suggestions and your advice. We have tried out several cars in recent days. We took into consideration what we personally liked and what we felt would best fit our life style. The nice part is that we both agree on these three choices. All of the cars---Explorer, Lincoln, Cherokee, Tahoe, Mercedes, Suburban, Acadia, Yukon, and Buick---all had pluses and minuses in styling, performance, comfort, and safety. In a very general sense, none of those that we considered were bad cars. Cars are made so well today, and there are so many choices and options. Basically, it boiled down to what we personally liked and what we felt good driving.
When we pull the trigger, I'll let you know the sales story.
Richard
We're going away Saturday for a week. Might not be in here for then but we'll see. Heading to Nag's Head. Don't suppose that's your neck of the woods in NC. Big state you have. If I moved to Ashville I'd be further away from the Outer Banks than I am here in New Jersey.
Though I rarely use mine, I believe you could scan the article on your printer/copier/scanner... then cut and paste. :confuse:
Obama should have given the nicer vehicles to the poor and those that needed them for transportation (i.e jobs) instead of pouring concrete into their engine blocks. What a waste. :sick:
I know that you will enjoy your trip to Nags Head. I'm about five hours west of there, but have some good friends who retired there. We go out there once or twice a year.
In another of your posts, you mentioned that you were pretty much "left leaning" in your thinking. It surprised me because we have many things in common. I'm pretty much "right leaning" myself. It just goes to show that "left" or "right", there are good people in all walks of life. That's what really counts. Enjoy your trip and tune in soon.
Richard
Richard
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD, 2025 Integra
2. Lincoln Towncar---because it was our favorite of all time with the comfort, soft ride, and floaty feeling
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee---because we like the styling, the ride, the options, and my wife likes the size.
Sounds as if you are undecided on car vs SUV. You know you can't go wrong with a Town Car. The one thing I would note is, if going for the TC look for a lightly used one. They depreciate fairly fast and right now a 2010 with around 10-15 K miles can most likely be had around 30K! Here is one listed at 33990, however I would expect it to sell for a little less.
2010 Town Car
As to giving the clunkers to the poor, sure, if you want to saddle (literally) poor folks with cars that cost more to operate, go ahead. By definition the clunkers have worse fuel economy than their peers so they will consume more gas and hence cost more per mile to drive. Also by definition the cars are worth little which implies they are either accident victims or are older and in either case the vehicle will be more prone towards needing repairs. Operating costs are simply higher and that's not really something we should be foisting off on those who can't afford it.
When you give a car to someone, they are responsible for income taxes on the gift. This is the only easy problem to solve as the law could exempt taxes. Of course, some poor folks would turn this to an advantage by taking the gift clunker and promptly selling it for a few hundred bucks.
But now you get to the real problems:
1. Who would decide where the cars go? There is truly no good answer to this for as soon as you say that person X deserves or qualifies for a car, your neighbor will point out person Y whose situation is demonstrably worse. Or maybe not demonstrably; maybe it depends on opinion. Does the homeless person deserve it more than the single mother (husband killed in Iraq) who can barely put food on the table? Let the bickering commence.
2. How much federal money would be spent in reconditioning the cars - fixing brakes, replacing bald tires, redoing the trans with the slipping gears, etc.? How much reconditioning is acceptable? Would broken AC be fixed? How about that stereo or the bad power window motor? Would vehicles be refitted for handicapped access or are the poor handicapped folks discriminated against? At what point do you draw the line between required items and accessories that can stay broken?
2.1. Who gets to do the repairs? IOW which shops become government contractors? What (inflated) labor rates and (inflated) parts rates are allowed? What does the shop next door think about his competitor getting guaranteed business while he's left out in the cold? Which, if any, government bureaucracy will be expanded to provide oversight?
3. How much federal money would be spent shipping the cars from source to destination? And again, who gets the contract for it and what do their competitors think about it?
4. Everywhere I'm aware of insurance of some form is required as is registration. Is the government going to cover those costs as well? If not, you're saddling the poor with yet another operating cost. Nowadays insurance carriers all use your credit rating to help determine your rate and I'm pretty sure the poor aren't going to have 700+ FICOs. Let's say insurance costs are covered. For how long? Which insurance carriers are on the "approved" list or will government auto insurance - call it "medicar" - be created to handle the insurance requirement?
5. What warranty will be provided to the folks receiving the cars? Even brand new cars can have failures within the first few weeks of ownership. We all know that some percentage of the clunkers will have a failure within days or weeks of delivery. Imagine the negative PR that would generate.
I don't see how this could possibly be done for less cost than C4C and the potential for headaches, finger pointing, and flat out fraud is far higher than the trade-in program.
Giving the cars to the poor would be economic and political suicide.
If you want to provide reliable, cheap transportation to the poor, improve the existing public transit systems and consider a subsidy to reduce the cost of bus passes and the like. Better mass transit would also get more regular (read: non-poor) folks to use it which would have the added benefit of reducing the number of cars on the road during rush hour.
Thanks for trying to remember fezo. Once I had to drive a famous sci-fi author to some interviews - when I worked for the publisher. I told him I once applied for a job at Goodyear, and when I applied they told us the best quality tires went to the car manufacturers, so people would like them and buy their brand again. 2nd grade went to gas stations and stores that carried their brand - they wanted them to be good quality so they would order more, 3rd grade went to their own franchise store dealers, because they had no choice. The authour wrote it all down and said he had to put that bit of information into a future book. Guess W.E.B. Griffin does the same.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I am going to write to our computer expert at work, but I don't think you can scan from a solid picture. I think you could scan, put the article in carspace, then copy the whole article, but that would take longer than typing it out. I'll ask!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
One day I'll find which book that is for driver.