Stories from the Sales Frontlines

crkyolfrt

It became legal at the point the customer was informed.
Although, privacy laws differ from state to state and province to province, it is generally acknowledged that if you are told ahead of time, then it's legal.

That's why when you call your local ISP provider to straighten out an overcharge on your last bill, at the beginning they always say that your conversation will be recorded...altho, then they say "so that we may provide you the best customer service experience" or something along those lines.

imidazol97

>It became legal at the point the customer was informed.

I would put that in the same category with shrinkwrap ware that says if you open it you agree to all their contract provisions.

I would expect to sign a release statement to acknowledge I were being photographed and video recorded.

Even worse would be some stores using a hidden recording.

jipster

My point is that this idea of giving the cars away to those who are in need may sounds like a great idea from a social service standpoint, but logistically it's a nightmare

Wouldn't be difficult at all. We're probably talking about less than 20% of total cars that were turned in to C4C would qualify to be given away. I'm sure there is somebody smart enough out there to figure out how to do it cost effectively. Surely couldn't be anymore a logistical nightmare than C4C was.

And if you give one person something, how are you justifying giving it to them & not their neighbor whose circumstances may be virtually identical?

Well, that's what happened under C4C. Some people got $4,500 for their trade-ins, and some people got jack.

How many lawsuits will be generated by people who were disallowed a vehicle (complete with discrimination allegations) or whose free vehicle proved unreliable?

They would be given away as is. You want an inspection, you pay for it. Again, these vehicle would be the cream of the crop.

I really don't think it would have taken much for the give away to work. Probably could have paid for itself and generated jobs if designed properly (i.e maybe a $250 handling fee per car). Maybe, I'll snail mail Obama and offer my services for the next "great" government program. :surprise:

driver100

r if you search for a partial sentence clip of the article in google,

thanks, imid, I am going to try those methods next time....that typing out long hand is for the birds.

bronsonb

Reminds me of a guy I work with...he's not the most upstanding guy I know...but I heard a rumor that when he was selling his home, he left a recorder running in the house to hear what potential buyers were saying. I don't know what he planned to do with it, but he did find out that no one felt his house was as nice as HE thought it was. I guess if someone had said, "Hey, we love this place...we'll pay up to 200K but let's offer 150K to start," then he could use that to his advantage. But I felt it was kind of stinky to do that. The danger of the whole thing backfiring is too great IMHO.

I've heard stories of dealerships where the sales person will leave a couple in a room to talk by themselves and turn on the speaker phone so he or she can hear everything that is being said. I can't say I've experienced that (at least that I know of....guess it could happen and probably does).

snakeweasel

but he did find out that no one felt his house was as nice as HE thought it was.

Everyone thinks their stuff is better than everyone elses. Its human nature. Thats why my 2001 sludgemobile LX with option package 2 with the dent in the front fender and the scratch along the side with the broken CD player and busted tailight which has 175K miles on it is much better and nicer than your 2001 sludgemobile LX with option package 2 with the dent in the front fender and the scratch along the side with the broken CD player and busted tailight which has 175K miles on it.

Or in other words thats why everyone with a POS trade in thinks they should get 4 times what the dealer offers.

driver100

A friend just bought a toyota and was informed by the finance mgr that the room was monitored for video and sound.

That was one reason car dealerships got a bad name in the old days...the salesman would leave to talk to his manager, and then listen to the couple in the office to see what they were really willing to pay. Those stories might or might not be true, but, I tend to think the story is true. If i knew a dealer was watching me on a video camera I would prefer to go to another dealer if there is any choice in the matter.

I don't mind if police put cameras all over town. In London UK they have 1000s of cameras all over and it helps to get rid of crime. I don't think that violates my rights, but watching me to try to make a sale, violates my privacy. Next time I go in to the sales office they might wire me up to a lie detector to see what the real maximum amount I would spend would be.

graphicguy

richard....I wouldn't think twice about getting a Mercury GM or a Lincoln Town Car. My parents owned both at one time or another. I drove the GM around while trying to sell it for my late Mother last year.

They're unique (at least unique in today's car market place). The GM and Lincoln are extremely well built, practically bullet proof. They ride very nicely. They are quiet. They have a ton of space. They get decent MPG. They don't need much in the way of maintenance. And, one would last for many, many years.

The downside, they don't handle very well. They aren't speed demons (even though they have V8s).

They are just nice cars that if they offered the lux/sport I was looking for, I wouldn't have hesitated to have bought my Mother's from her. And, would have proceeded to use it as a daily driver, on long trips, for everything, for probably several more years.

fezo

So, you are still driving the sludgemobile? How's that working. Must be you wife with the Sebring convertible. Just as well. I hear they don't handle in mud and attract dog poop.

sterlingdog

Thanks for the input. I had a feeling that you would see it that way. I do think that the Town Car would last for years and be fairly easy to maintain. That type of car is not for every buyer, but some do enjoy them very much. We certainly enjoyed our '89 model.

Richard

imidazol97

I'll offer my 2 cents worth. Pick whichever car turns you on when you look at it, sit in it, and drive it. I want a car that makes me feel good when I walk up to open the door in the garage. I loved the Cadillac commercial a couple years back about the car "turning me on" when the sophisticated lady got in and drove!

gogiboy

"The downside, they don't handle very well. They aren't speed demons (even though they have V8s)."

Richard--

My wife's late father owned various Grand Marquis over the years. He preferred the Wagons, but when Mercury dropped those he switched to the sedans. My recollection is that it had a plush ride with ample space front and back for even the widest of American posteriors. The trunk was cavernous--so big that several bodies could be carried along with ample concrete for their shoes.

My wife who was used to our Civic, accidentally ran it into a curb by not swinging wide enough at a turn. It's a BIG car--at least it was to us. When he died it was about four years old and only had about 15K on the clock so some buyer ended up with a car that had a ton of life left.

Personally, I think you need to get a chopped top '51 (or was it '52) Mercury like the one driven by those hoodlums in American Graffiti. That's a car that demands respect, which you won't get driving the Jeep or Explorer unless you add a turret and machine gun.

Gogiboy

sterlingdog

"...unless you add a turret and a machine gun."

LOL! I do like a car that demands respect.

Richard

sterlingdog

"Pick whichever car turns you on when you look at it, sit in it, and drive it."

Yours is the best advice of all. A person should love the car that they select.

Richard

bertoli

Ahhh, the Grand Marquis Station Wagon...as a newly minted U.S. Customs agent in 1987 my first G-ride was a '83 GM wagon that had been previously seized from a drug smuggler. The bad guy had a hidden compartment made where the third row fold down seat was supposed to be. It was gold with the fake wood grain and I swear that thing seemed 30 feet long and 10 feet wide, not to mention the radiator frequently overheated in the South Florida sun...sigh. As you can imagine it wasn't the coolest of rides for a rookie mid 20's agent who wanted to be like Miami Vice, but on the bright side no one ever made me me as a agent on a surveilance either...:).

fezo

Well, gents, we are off in the morning heading to the Outer Banks. I'll have my dandy new laptop with me and the house has wifi so I shouldn't be completely out of touch.

Will meet one of our members down there during our week, unlike that richard guy who won't drive a few hours......

It's a nice drive down mostly. We go one hour and then hit an 80 minute ferry at Cape May. Once over on the Delaware side it's only a couple hours to the bridge tunnel which is a treat, too and then we're mostly there but now in the toughest piece of the trip - Virginia Beach area. Should be a load of fun.

verdugo

Driver - there's only 5 of these novels. You'll have to read them..... In order they are By Order of the President, The Hostage, The Hunters, The Shooters and Black Ops. It's in one of the last two but why deprive yourself of the setup?

I liked the first book, but the rest are boring. Nothing ever happens. The last 4 book should have been 1 book.

verdugo

As for Jeep reliability, the reviews by owners seem more positive than your thinking. Still, you have seen many cars in your career and have had a wealth of experience. I'll factor your view into my thinking.

The Jeeps that isell saw are not the same Jeeps as the 2011 GC. Fit, quatliy, and reliability have gone up quite a bit in recent years. Is it at Lexus levels yet? Probably not, but it's not as bad as people think.

I have a 2008 GC and it's been great.

sterlingdog

Have fun and drive safely!

Richard

sterlingdog

Glad to know that. You've had yours long enough to be able to make such a determination. The 2010 certainly drove well. One of the complaints had been about rear leg room. I sat in the rear during part of the test drive to check it. I'm six feet but there seemed to be plenty of room for me.

Richard

graphicguy

fezo....have fun. I haven't been down to the Virginia Beach area since my son was a wee one. I remember the drive all too well, though (all 12 hours of it).

Funny, was just telling a good friend last evening how I wouldn't be doing those 12 hour, or even 10 hour jaunts any more. 8 hours would be about my limit.

Ever since I was a teen, one of my dream vacations would be to drive the entire Route 66.....in a Corvette.

I think next spring that may actually happen as I've found a local place that rents Corvettes (although not cheaply).

imidazol97

>one of my dream vacations would be to drive the entire Route 66.....in a Corvette.

That sounds great to me. Rent one of these... and be essentially original a la Route 66.

snakeweasel

Ever since I was a teen, one of my dream vacations would be to drive the entire Route 66.....in a Corvette.

I think next spring that may actually happen as I've found a local place that rents Corvettes (although not cheaply).

Enjoy it and wave as you go by me (as I am only a mile or two from Route 66). Be sure to give yourself plenty of time as there are sites to see, detours to take and you have to drive back.

roadburner

I have a 2008 GC and it's been great.

Ditto for my 1999 Wrangler; I can't ever see getting rid of it.
Unless a clean 2006 Rubicon Unlimited turned up:

isellhondas

It was a 1951 Mercury and those hoodlums werre "The Pharohs"

My best friend's cousin and his wife wrote American Grafitti.

driver100

Ditto for my 1999 Wrangler; I can't ever see getting rid of it.

Wow, I am really impressed...especially with the inside of your garage, you have everything lined up and neatly stored. Not like most people who leave their $30000 car on the driveway, and put their junk no one wants in their garage.

By the way, your Wrangler looks great in yellow, I have never seen one in yellow before.

This is less than a minute but it is hilarious...you will never complain your garage is too small ever again.
Parking in the world's smallest garage

deltheking

Not to go off topic and no offense-- but seriously Jeep getting to Lexus levels.. C`mon?? As much as you love Jeeps, that is just not on. It should be compared to mainstream models like Toyo/Hon/Niss/Ford/Chevy .. But Lexus?? Lexus has the best luxury interiors out there and needs to be compared to MB/BMW , not Jeep. :shades:

And Jeep has turned it around in 1 or 2 yrs-- just after exiting BK. Just not possible. It will take more time for Jeep to become more competitive and 1 model cannot do that without some long term feedback. Great that your 08 GC has been great and I am assuming G.Cherokee and not G.Caravan. It`s interiors are way behind other makes. The V6 is supposed to be OK but the V8 has poor ratings. Again,your experience may vary . I haven`t seen the 11 GC,so I cant comment but time will tell whether it will be reliable and have high sales. But one thing though I can say with certainty is that they will depreciate like a tank and if I ever want to buy a Jeep, I will buy a 1 or 2 yr old one.. Let the 1st owner or Richard64 take the hit !!! Just kidding !! :P

isellhondas

I don't want to be misunderstood. I don't think Jeeps are "bad" cars. I just think they have a few more problems than the other cars mentioned.

It's pretty hard to predict the reliability of a 2010-2011.

The cars on my "bad" list would include Volvos, Audis and anything Volkswagen.

When Land Rovers were traded in, our General Manager made us wholesale them because of the many expensive headaches they gave us when we did sell one.

Cool cars though!

driver100

I liked the first book, but the rest are boring. Nothing ever happens. The last 4 book should have been 1 book.

You have good judgement verdugo. By order had 4 stars on Amazon and the others had 3 out of 5. Not that good, although they sell really well, and WEB has a real following.

While waiting to catch our plane back from Boston we walked up to the store and back and I always try to see what people are reading. I saw 4 people with books and all 4 were reading the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. It is an amazing book, and everyone who reads it can't wait to read the nest one. I rarely recommend books (or cars) since everyones taste is so different, but I have rarely heard of a book that so many people like.

deltheking

BR and LRguy would disagree with you.

And VW ad theme must be --not "Das Auto" but "Dud Auto ". :shades:

roadburner

By the way, your Wrangler looks great in yellow, I have never seen one in yellow before.

I WISH that was my Wrangler; it's just a shot of one I would like to have.
Here's mine:



After the garage gets its fall cleaning I'll take a picture of the inside... :P

driver100

I WISH that was my Wrangler; it's just a shot of one I would like to have.
Here's mine

That is pretty cool too! But I think you should paint it yellow!

driver100

I just had to copy the whole article from Edmund's review of the 2010 Lincoln Town Car. While, in Boston we had a taxi ride in a baby brother...Crown Vic, and it is really ancient. You can tell from the back seat. Our ride to the airport in a Fusion was much better and more comfortable, higher seats, with more padding. Read the review, it is just fun to read. By the way, I don't think I have ever said to any one they should buy any particular car, but the article speaks for itself.
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What Edmunds.com says

The 2010 Lincoln Town Car is a big luxury car from a bygone era that simply can't hack it against newer models.

Pros

Available extended-wheelbase model, cavernous trunk.

Cons

Nautical handling, sluggish acceleration, poor fuel economy, dated design.

What's New for 2010

The 2010 Lincoln Town Car gets an optional Continental Edition package that adds 17-inch chrome wheels, chrome B-pillars and special badging and interior stitching.

2010 Lincoln Town Car Vehicle Overview

Introduction

If you have a 2010 Lincoln Town Car and need to pick someone up at your local airport, you'll almost certainly be mistaken for a livery driver. That's better than being mistaken for a cab driver (an honor reserved for Crown Vic owners), but it's also an indication of how far this once-mighty marque has fallen. A Town Car used to be a status symbol that impressed your neighbors and fellow motorists. These days, the only people driving Town Cars are chauffeurs and the occasional private owner who almost certainly neglected to test-drive the competition.

When we say that a car might have been competitive a few decades ago, it's usually a figure of speech. But in the Town Car's case, we mean it literally. The big Lincoln rides on a dated platform and has undergone only a handful of revisions since. Even SUVs are now switching in droves from body-on-frame to unibody construction, yet the Town Car soldiers on as the only body-on-frame passenger car on the market. It also throws in a truck-style solid rear axle for good measure.

The results are unpleasant. Handling abilities are poor relative to modern cars, and that rear axle seriously degrades the car's ride and handling on broken pavement. In the powertrain department, the 4.6-liter V8 makes 239 horsepower -- less than most current V6s -- albeit with a respectable 287 pound-feet of torque. Another downside is fuel economy, as it checks in at a thirsty 19 mpg combined, thanks in part to the archaic four-speed automatic transmission.

The nicest thing we can say about the Town Car is that it's really roomy. It has seating for six and loads of cargo volume. But we're confident that you and your passengers will fit just fine in luxury sedans of more recent vintage. Superior and cheaper rivals include the Hyundai Genesis, Lexus ES 350 and Toyota Avalon. The Chrysler 300C provides similar luxury, available V8 power and an extended-wheelbase version to boot. Indeed, just about any modern-day luxury car is a better choice than the 2010 Lincoln Town Car. If you don't own a limousine company, do yourself a favor and look elsewhere.
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By the way Boston is a fantastic city. The streets were full of people all evening long, and the restaraunts are thriving. You would never know there was a recession going on. Took the harbor cruise this time and that was really nice. I like the DUQ tour last year a bit more, but both are great things to do in Boston.

The 3rd taxi in Boston was a Camry. From the back seat I think the Fusion was nicest in comfort and ride. It was a 4 cylinder with 100k miles. The Camry was a close second, not finished as nicely on the inside, and smaller windows - a little more closed in feeling, and the Crown Vic is a distant 3rd - back seat is hard and low to the ground, look and texture of materials look like they came from the extra thrifty bin.

deltheking

Boy , the one line that nailed the review was the first one -"If you have a 2010 Lincoln Town Car and need to pick someone up at your local airport, you'll almost certainly be mistaken for a livery driver. That's better than being mistaken for a cab driver (an honor reserved for Crown Vic owners "-- cant beat that !! That is freaking hilarious. I want to be the owner,not the chauffeur !!! :shades: :P

driver100

-"If you have a 2010 Lincoln Town Car and need to pick someone up at your local airport, you'll almost certainly be mistaken for a livery driver

If Richard buys one, we should buy him a hat and uniform.

deltheking

And we can have his # on our speed dial .Whenever we land at an airport- we can call him!! Killing 2 birds with one stone-- meet a friend plus get a drive back home in ancient luxury ! Value- priceless ! LOL !! Just kidding though !! :P

So Richard, when are you buying the Town Car ?? :shades:

fezo

BTW - I agree with verdugo on the WEB novels. The first was terrific but the others are OK at best. I swear he doesn't know how to do a love interest. He built this really big piece of the first novel on this one woman and then wrote her off in a paragraph and she's never heard from again. Reminds me of Peter Straub's comment about Stephen King that little Stevie hadn't learned about sex yet.

gg - what a great idea! I can't do that one but I would love it!

Greetings from Nags Head. So far so good. Maybe 10 hours total but two of those were waiting for and riding on the ferry and another hour of lunch and some other things. Made it in time for sunset and since we're right across from the sound taht's an excellent thing.

venture

The 3rd taxi in Boston was a Camry.

We were in Boston at the end of May for my sons graduation from Boston U. I was sort of amazed that, I would guess, 70% of the taxis were hybrid Camrys.

We managed to get a Crown Vic every time though. The drivers almost scared the life out of my wife. I thought it was great driving. :surprise:

driver100

70% of the taxis were hybrid Camrys.

I would have estimated 70% Crown Vics and 30% Camrys, but I wasn't counting. I noticed most of the Crown Vics are riding kind of low, but are not intentionally a low rider (ha ha). They obviously have a taxi package interior, and it looks pretty bad. I don't know if the name of the model appears on the car, I really had to think about what they were called. I noticed some Camrys were hybrids but I am not sure what percentage....I would think it makes a huge savings for taxi drivers.

Congratulations on your son graduating from such a great university, you must be very proud.

driver100

Maybe this will be Richard.....

houdini1

While we are recommending good books you should try "Term Limits", by Vince Flynn. It is a political thriller. Once you read that one, which is a stand alone novel, and if you are hooked, there is a whole series of novels starting with "Transfer of Power", where the character Mitch Rapp is the hero.

Let me warn you though, Mr. Flynn does not pull any punches !!

driver100

"Term Limits", by Vince Flynn.

It seems Vince Flynn, Lee Child, and Daniel Silva are the hot new authors in that genre these days. Lots of people reading them, and if you like those you would probably like Harlan Coben ("Tell No One" is amazing) and Nelson DeMille but, The Girl With the Dragon Tatoo is #1.

crkyolfrt

isell, I'm surprised that Jaguar didn't make your list? I think you like Fords right? So now that Ford and Jag aren't joined at the hip anymore, it would be ok to slog them.

graphicguy

Snake....this won't happen until next summer, but I'm starting the planning now.

imid....boy I wish I could find a "vintage" 'vette like that to take on the trip. As it stands, it's going to cost over a $1,000/week to rent a new one (down from $200/day). Even if I could find a vintage 'vette to rent, I can't even fathom what it would cost.

crkyolfrt

My fav line was: "When we say that a car might have been competitive a few decades ago, it's usually a figure of speech. But in the Town Car's case, we mean it literally." LOL!! Ouch..

As for continuing to flog the dated body-on-frame tech, this is probably more deliberate than you might think. There is no doubt that not investing new R&D bucks for a complete ground up unibody for yet another year, will continue to make Ford big bucks for any units sold. And of course there is the anticipated demographic of the purchaser. Many still go by old school because they are reluctant to acknowledge perceived progress. And body-on-frame is as old school as it gets.

Not a very complimentary write-up though, lol.

Someone said that Grand Cherokee's V6 was a better engine than the V8? I admit I am out of touch lately..do they still use the 3.9l V6? No..seems to me it is one of those newer smaller displacement but more hp and torque type blocks? 3.7 maybe..
So what was the beef with the V8? Must be fuel mileage.

Too bad Hyundai wasn't made in America eh Richard? I know its not on your list. Not as big as the TC for one thing. Did you guys get the GC with M Benz V6 diesel down there? We had them in Cda for what..about 3 years I think. They dropped it again I see, just like they did with the L4 MB diesel they put in the Liberty for a year or two only. That V6 though was an incredibly smooth and quiet engine. Even standing right there in front of it with the hood up. Unbelievably so!

I was going to buy one had it been offered with a manual tranny. That Chryco corporate 5 sp auto is a white bread tranny. But with a manual and the torque the diesel had, it would be stump pulling at will in any gear. Real world, heavy footed fuel mileage would annihilate any gas job if you planned to do many miles over the years.

verdugo

Professional reviews have not been kind to the Grand Cherokee.

Richard,

Which reviews are you talking about? I've read C&D and USAToday and they were both positive. I haven't read what edmunds has to say though

verdugo

One of the complaints had been about rear leg room.

I agree with that. Since it's just my wife and I, it's not really an issue for us. IIRC, the 2011 has more legroom in the back.

Not to go off topic and no offense-- but seriously Jeep getting to Lexus levels.. C`mon?? As much as you love Jeeps, that is just not on.

I went back and reread my post that you answered. I should've been more clear, but I never meant to say that Jeep is on par to Lexus. I thought I made that clear, but I guess I wasn't clear enough.

I just saw this month's Consumer Reports and in the recall section there's both a Jeep and a Lexus recall :P

jayrider

Richard -- if I thought I wanted a town car, I'd take a thorough test drive. I'd drive it the way I usually drive in town and highway. If it made me feel pampered and happy I'd buy it. Don't care if it's outdated or whatever --- only if it meets my needs. It is good advice to consider a low mileage cpo because the first years depreciation is horrendous.Lincoln cpo program is excellent. We all react in unique ways to a particular vehicle makes us feel.
Having said that, I am enjoying the good natured beat-down you are getting on your vehicle look-list.

driver100

I just saw this month's Consumer Reports and in the recall section there's both a Jeep and a Lexus recall

Maybe this line from your post was what they meant - you answered your own statement;
Not to go off topic and no offense-- but seriously Jeep getting to Lexus levels.. C`mon?? As much as you love Jeeps, that is just not on.

fezo

Haven't gotten to Flynn or Child yet but Daniel Silva writes great stuff and Coben is very good. He even bases his novels in New Jersey so he gets bonus points.....