Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

This type of review doesn't serve the public well. In fact, it smacks at insulting the intelligence of the readership.

I checked the Consumers Report review for the LTC and it just gave a few observations. Although polite it didn't really give you any solid information. It gave the LTC a rating of 68 points out of 110, just barely over 50%.

I found the Edmunds review to be very factual, and informative. Though, it was a little cheeky, it gave some good solid facts that you can't just gloss over. One example is this part:

yet the Town Car soldiers on as the only body-on-frame passenger car on the market. It also throws in a truck-style solid rear axle for good measure.

The results are unpleasant. Handling abilities are poor relative to modern cars, and that rear axle seriously degrades the car's ride and handling on broken pavement. In the powertrain department, the 4.6-liter V8 makes 239 horsepower -- less than most current V6s -- albeit with a respectable 287 pound-feet of torque. Another downside is fuel economy, as it checks in at a thirsty 19 mpg combined, thanks in part to the archaic four-speed automatic transmission.

The nicest thing we can say about the Town Car is that it's really roomy. It has seating for six and loads of cargo volume.

That is real world factual information that you can't say was written to be disrespectful. If I was going to purchase an LTC I would want to know this information. Not only that, but the article also presented alternative choices, which the writer said were superior.

I am not being negative or positive about the LTC. I am just reporting the facts as they appeared, and I would rather know all the facts before making a large and expensive purchase.
The review was at Post #57358

graphicguy

To those who've never driven a body on frame car (Crown Vics, Lincoln Town Cars, older Chevies and Buicks), there's a certain goodness that can't be replicated in other cars.

No....they aren't sports cars. No....they aren't fast.

They are roomy. They are comfortable. They are bulletproof (the General and Ford have built them for so long they know how to make them....really, really well).

Knowing that going in, you will be rewarded with a car that will last a very long time....one that can be driven anywhere, in any climate, and be comfortable after an all day cruise, in town or on the highway.

Plus, I don't consider a 19 MPG average to be bad considering the V8 under the hood (which is creamy smooth and mostly silent running).

qbrozen

Wife and I happen to be headin down with the kids and staying at the Trump Plaza the night of 9/2. She tells me she'll take the kids to the beach while I hit the casinos. Can't argue with that!

tjc78

That is real world factual information that you can't say was written to be disrespectful.

Driver, it is written with bias. They make the car out to be the equivalent of a 1960s barge. It is not. As GG said, they aren't fast and can't corner like on rails. However, they are still competent cars. Since 2003 they have rack and pinion steering and updated braking systems. To think that Ford can still make them the "old way" and continue to soldier on shows you something. Reviewers and car folk, love to ridicule the Panther platform. I don't believe there are many automotive platforms that have the proven track record these cars do. They are the work horses of thousands of fleets across the country.

They do not (and will not) out handle a BMW or win at the dragstrip. However, for comfortable highway cruising you cannot beat them. The only vehicle (in a sane price point) that can possibly beat the Town Car at its own game is the Toyota Avalon IMO. The Caddy DTS and Buick Lucerne come to mind as well.

lemko

I have a Cadillac DTS Performance and I absolutely love it! I wouldn't mind a Lincoln Town Car myself. I also have a Mercury Grand Marquis LS - the poor man's Town Car.

jayrider

Did I say Cadillac ? I meant to say Avalon. My bad.

crkyolfrt

"The writing style of Consumer Reports is like a politician pushing his views and trying to discredit the opposition. Their use of "yet," "soldiers," and "truck" each diminish the quality of the Town Car. I assume CR was criticizing truck-style rear axles all these years since Ralph Nader was on their board? I don't recall their concern about truck-style axles in other reviews when I used to read them when most cars had them."

You have your reviews mixed up. It was Edmunds who said that, quoted above.

Although I don't want it to sound like I am defending CR in any way. I put them along-side Readers Digest in the doc's waiting room.
I do sort of agree with your politicians remark tho.

imidazol97

I see now that the reference went to Edmunds after the first short paragraph. Gimmestdtranny is right. So I deleted the original post.

SO I'll retune the post here.

> the 4.6-liter V8 makes 239 horsepower -- less than most current V6s -- albeit with a respectable 287 pound-feet of torque.

It's the torque that matters for most drivers, not the horsepower, along with the axle and transmission gearing choices.

>yet the Town Car soldiers on as the only body-on-frame passenger car on the market. It also throws in a truck-style solid rear axle for good measure.

The writing style of Consumer Reports, and in this example Edmunds, is like a politician pushing his views and trying to discredit the opposition. Their use of "yet," "soldiers," and "truck" each diminish the quality of the Town Car. I assume CR was criticizing truck-style rear axles all these years since Ralph Nader was on their board? I don't recall their concern about truck-style axles in other reviews when I used to read them when most cars had them.

I used to make a practice of reading their group opinions where they take 4-5 similar cars and compare. They would very carefully writing in hatchet words to minimize the cars they didn't "prefer," and they would write in mitigation clauses to gloss over flaws in the cars that were on the "approved" list of CR.

CR and Edmunds sometimes try to show their opinion as that of the "educated class" on cars. That's my opinion so other's opinions may vary.

I doubt Richard is going to do much cobblestone, corduroy road driving where rear axle engineering for dampening will make a difference. His wife may do a little off-roading when Richard's not around, but I doubt the axle will be a deficiency. Instead that smooth, controlled ride for normal drivers on normal highways and over rough highways will be a blessing.

If concerned about a rear axle configuration, a front wheel drive Cadillac and Lucerne with the computer controlled strut suspension does not have a rear axle for Edmunds to be concerned about and probably has optimum control over the car's ride for people wishing to drive on terrible, rough roads.

There is a lot to be said for a full width 6 passenger automobile. My wife has had six adult retired teachers in her car for travel to another home for a monthly card party; our LeSabre holds them easily and comfortably. The TC is wider. The TC has more rear legroom. The interior width is a forté.

Kirstie_H

This has been my problem with making anti-recommendations in the past. I remember once trying to steer someone away from buying a used VW Jetta due to the well-documented and numerous electrical issues. Of course he bought it anyway, and his was an exception, so of course I was wrong.

jimbres

The writing style of Consumer Reports, and in this example Edmunds, is like a politician pushing his views and trying to discredit the opposition.

Isn't this true of most car reviews? Do you think that the fan mags - Car & Driver (known for its pro-German bias) & Road & Track - would be any kinder to the TC? I've subscribed to Car & Driver for over 30 years, & I can assure you that their staff wouldn't even consider wasting page space on a TC review in the 1st place. And if they ever did, their review would make the Edmund's review sound like a puff piece.

More to the point, you really have to admit that the TC is an obsolete product aimed at a customer demographic that isn't too sophisticated when it comes to cars. To see this, just compare the TC to a much more modern American sedan like the Buick LaCrosse. Do I even have to ask you which car you'd pick? I doubt if you'd spend 30 seconds pondering that.

dino001

The only reason cars like LTC can even exist and "soldier on" is they are so cheap to make that they can be profitable even at a giagantic discount (and I mean trully giangantic). With all tooling and R&D paid off 20 years ago already all it costs is materials and labor. It also offers reliability of a vetted technology. I'm not knocking it down. As long as it makes money (read - there are people who buy that), it is a valid business model.

However, it is not fair to say that magazine/consumer reviews are biased just because they rate some products differently than we would. They are paid to evaluate product based on real or perceived value defined as performance, technology, reliability or whatever other criteria. They would usually state their priorities (e.g. CR will emphasize reliability over latest techs or handling, C/D will emphasize handling and performance and usually say nothing about reliability) and then they will point to products that meet those criteria best. Not agreeing on their criteria and priorities is not instant evidence of bias.

Bottom line - they say "we think there is a better product in similar size for similar price" and present the case why they think that. One can disagree with them or say the reasons are not important to them, but that's hardly bias.

crkyolfrt

All forms of media, be it television broadcast, newspaper, car mag and all those which publish with or without ads, do so with a certain amount of bias one way or the other. Around here it is so painfully obvious that every TV news channel, and big or small town newspaper are so Liberal (Democrat) the pages litmus red when any amount of moisture is present.

If they report a collision involving a motorcycle and a car, in which the facts are that the car pulled out in front of the non-speeding bike and the bike ends up T Boning the car, the newspaper Headline (or low-life 'reporter' (ugh) will state:

"SPORTBIKE MOTORCYCLE HITS CAR!" and so that headline makes it look like yet another hoodlum on a sportbike was being reckless. It can be very damaging, because the masses will soak it up. Doesn't seem to matter if the foundation was built on hay bails. But the reporting is out and the damage done. Mission accomplished.

Unfortunately it's because bad or controversial news sells best.

This point is proven right here and now in this very discussion about the LTC. There was a publicized review that was less than complimentary in most ways and manipulated with a certain flavour (flavor, ) and now there is controversy over their findings.

gogiboy

"You make an excellent point. We see that so often in life. A person will say that they hate to eat a certain food. When asked if they have tried it, they say no. Worse than that is when a person claims not to like another person. When asked if they have ever talked with this person, they say no."

Richard--

I would add that quite a few internet posters seem to need to justify their own purchase--and not just cars--by disparaging what others drive, particularly if the other cars are seen to be in direct competition with their own purchase. It's no longer enough to simply be pleased and to celebrate one's own acumen as a consumer. As isell points out someone will always tell you that you paid too much even if the dealership gave you the car for free--it's just human nature it seems.

Having said that, we all have experiences that lead us to form opinions. When someone has had direct experience with a certain make or model it's worth noting, but it's anecdotal and not necessarily a trend-and may not pertain to your own requirements. In the end it's your choice--and I know you and your wife are making an "informed choice" not an impulse purchase. I only wish you could buy all three and drive them for a year. After the year elapsed you could decide which of the three best suited you and sell the other two--for a profit, of course!

If you want to read some funny, nearly useless, consumer advice you should read bicycle saddle (seat) reviews on another site. Everyone has an opinion about why one seat is good or great or bad or horrible--and they're reviewing the same seat. Guess what? We all have different butts, pelvic variations, riding positions, etc, etc. One man's bicycle throne is another man's implement of torture. In fact many would argue that all bicycle seats were designed in hell.

Gogiboy

isellhondas

Reviews are always at least partially subjective.

A Lincoln does what it does very well. They glide down the road and are as comfortable of a car as you'll ever find.

They handle well enough for most people and they aren't the sloppy boats they were years ago.

Motor Trend compared Accords and Camrys in an article years ago. They liked both cars very much. they complained about excessive road noise from the Accords and they said the Camry "rode like a ten year old Buick"

Both statements are true. Honda although improved can NOT seem to get a grip on road noise. The Camrys are also improved but they still wallow and float down the road.

I lost sales over road noise but not many and I'm sure some of my customers preferred the softness of the Camry's ride over the tautness of the Accord.

There is a saying in the car business..." There's a a seat for every a**" "

stewardrobbins

I've enjoyed this thread for years, but I haven't posted before. I owned a 2002 Toyota Land Cruiser, which I really loved, but I decided that I should sell it because it was really too much truck for us. We then bought a Honda Element which was too noisy, and then a Toyota Camry which was OK, but we never fell in love with it.

After two record snow winters in a row and getting stuck more than once, I complained that we shouldn't have ever sold the Land Cruiser and we decided that we should get an all wheel drive vehicle. We test drove sixteen! different cars and though they were OK, none of them were more than just OK. I thought I might be just remembering the Land Cruiser too fondly, so we drove a beat up Cruiser with over 100k and we still loved it.

Bottom line, I just bought a CPO Lexus LX470. Yes, it gets lousy mileage, and it is not as smooth riding as a Lexus LS, but we absolutely love the LX and I will NEVER sell it unless I get too feeble to climb into it (but it has adjustable height control!)

Love conquers all!

verdugo

The jeep is the off roader of the pair, only comes with AWD, and gets lower mileage.

That's not correct. You can get a 4x2 GC. In addition, the GC is not AWD, it's 4x4.

driver100

Bottom line - they say "we think there is a better product in similar size for similar price" and present the case why they think that. One can disagree with them or say the reasons are not important to them, but that's hardly bias

Right on dino, and these are the models they recommended;

Superior and cheaper rivals include the Hyundai Genesis, Lexus ES 350 and Toyota Avalon. The Chrysler 300C provides similar luxury, available V8 power and an extended-wheelbase version to boot. Indeed, just about any modern-day luxury car is a better choice than the 2010 Lincoln Town Car

Please note, if Richard had told us he bought an LTC, I wouldn't have posted the review....it wouldn't serve any purpose. However, I think as a friend, it is my obligation to give him relevant information, before he makes a purchase. If I was considering buying an LTC, I would be greatful for any information that would help me make a better decision.

One more thing. The reviews in newspapers are usually complimentary because they want to get car companies to buy ads. They are of some interest, but I think the Edmunds review was very worthwhile...they tell it as they see it - and the reader has to decide if their findings are meaningful to him.

driver100

Bottom line, I just bought a CPO Lexus LX470.

Thanks for joining in stewardrobbins. We don't hear too much about LX470s around here. Sounds like the LX470 would be an ideal choice to replace a Land Cruiser. You must find it to be a much superior car.
Why don't you tell us the details about how the sale went down?

stewardrobbins

Actually, my 'new" LX470 is virtually the same as my 2002 Land Cruiser. Both had two feature that I really wanted and couldn't find elsewhere: great seats and low road noise. The 2006's have 40 more horsepower, and Lexus has the adjustable suspension, memory seats, and real wood trim - that's it! I had been looking for an LC or an LX for several months on various websites, and they all seemed to be 300-500 miles away. I preferred a certified Lexus because they have a better warranty - 3 years or 50,000 miles which pretty much includes everything.

I was waiting to drive a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee and if I didn't like that, my second choice was a Mercedes 350 GLK. I was very surprised to see a 40K miles certified LX at our local dealer, and we rushed down to see it. It looked and drove very well. I had researched Land Cruiser and LX asking prices on Ebay and the state dealer's websites, and this one was priced in line with those. They offered the Edmunds trade in price for the Camry and knocked a few hundred off the LX price. Not great, but OK.

For the curious, here's what else I drove: Toyota 4 runner, Mercedes GLK, Buick Lacrosse and Enclave, Volvo XC60, Hyundai Santa Fe and Vera Cruz, Subaru Outback, Lexus RX350 and GX570, Acura MDX, and just for fun Lexus LS400 and LS430. I really liked the LS's but they are rear wheel drive.

houdini1

Congratulations on your new wheels. We are on our 2nd LX 470 (2007) as my wife refuses to drive anything else. Fine with me as I know she is very safe while driving that tank. It only averages about 14 mpg but she only drives about 6,000 miles a year.

Your getting stuck days should be over.

mako1a

I have a 91 Z28 convertible that is anything but stock. The 305 engine was replaced with a bored and stroked, 420 HP, Eagle crank, Comp cam, well everything new engine and the 4L60 trans was replaced with a built (for the street) 700R4. Those two items alone were over $8,000. Then another $2,000 in suspension, stereo, etc.

Now when I built this car a couple of years ago I didn't expect to get my money back, but now I'm being hit time after time by dealers with $2100 or $2200 book for trade-in. It would bring that with all stock running gear as it's rust free with a nice interior.

I tried to trade for a 2WD Ford Sport Track (Explorer with a small bed $14,995) which I'm fine with, but many want 4WD.
I went in and stated this was a one time offer. Z28 and $10,000 cash and I'll do my own DMV work. They all came out to hear and see the Camaro, and seemed to like it, but wouldn't pay the $5,000 difference I wanted.

No dice. I started to leave and the manager comes out and says $11,000. I said no. Then he wanted to juggle numbers again. So I got a coffee, then the salesman comes up with $12,850. I said I already turned down a better offer than that and anyway it was a no haggle offer.

Then they said why don't you sell it yourself and come back to see us. I said if I sell it myself I'll just have another trade as I have too many vehicles (4). I just need the garage this car is sitting in. The new one can stay outside. I've run ads before and all I got was a bunch of morons wanting me to finance it for them. (they found humor in that). That's why I'm trying to trade. I hate selling cars myself. If it wasn't for the convenience of trading, what do I need a dealer for? There are millions of cars for sale.

The engine is worth more than the whole car so parting out is an option and I won't have to hear any more about book values. Long rant, but I feel better now. Thanks, Dave

tjc78

That is one car that I would try and sell myself. The dealer probably doesn't want to sell a heavily modified car and will most likely wholesale it. I am sure someone who is into those cars will snatch it up at a good price

explorerx4

how long was it from leaving your house to your destination in Boston?
It's probably about 9 hours door to door if you drive.

jayrider

Based on what is happening is that no one wants that 91 camaro. the early 90 camaros are nice [ owned a 90 RS ] but they aren't collectible.
there are too many on the market. The ones who want it can't afford it and bank financing would be based on loan value which is almost zero. You need a cash buyer who wanted a 91 when he was in highschool and couldn't afford one. Check out what's sold on ebay. The mods you did probably hurt the value as well. Totally stock in excellent condition is the gold standard for the 40 year old buyer. The dudes who want to race it can't afford it. The dealers know that. You might have to cut your losses or keep it. Good luck.

mako1a

I'm not letting it go for less than $5,000. I inherited both the Z28 and a 67 Camaro SS/RS which sold for $25,000 without me having to run an ad. I really saw no value in either car as I'm a Nova guy. Then I stupidly put half of the 25k into the Z28 because that was my dads intention when he bought it. Oh well, you'll have that. I'm out nothing. It's just the principle (and frustration with selling a hi dollar car for peanuts).

jimbres

That's why I'm trying to trade. I hate selling cars myself.

I understand that, but you have to understand that there's no alternative to selling it yourself if you want to squeeze maximum value out of this car. Dealer trades work best when the car that you want to get rid of is absolutely average - a stock 5-year-old Camry or Impala in average condition & with the average number of miles on the clock, for example. But your car is an oddball, & getting the most money for it requires that you look for someone who will appreciate & pay for its unusual qualities & features.

Give craigslist a shot for a couple of weeks. Include pictures. It's easy to handle people who try to low-ball you or who ask for financing: just say "no".

Maybe I've been lucky, but I've had little trouble selling my cars. Haven't done a dealer trade since 1987 & don't plan to start now.

driver100

how long was it from leaving your house to your destination in Boston?
It's probably about 9 hours door to door if you drive.

You are right, it would be about 9 hours to drive from Toronto to Boston. I would be glad to do it, but my wife won't go for a car drive over about 4 hours. Then, we are talking about a full day to get there and a full day to return, plus one or two days to recover from driving for so long. Then, when we get to Boston we meet with suppliers and have to make decisions about which 100,000 books we are going to buy. Also, our manager would be going so it will take a full 2 or 3 days of his time, when he could be doing more working for 1/2 a day on each end of the trip. By the way, he worked on his computer the whole time we waited at each airport, so it would be a lot of wasted time driving.

The air fare cost about $900 for 3 people ($900 is a business expense so even if a bit more it isn't that much more-maybe 1/2 in real dollars). To drive would cost $150 in gas, where and tear on the car, about 4 meals for 3 each way - about $150. And about 6 days of lost labor for 3 people (counting 1 day each for 3 people to recover).

No, on many a business trips, what seems like saving money isn't really saving money. Much better to spend a bit more and be more productive.

explorerx4

Since you didn't mention how long it took you to get to Boston, my guess is flying is longer.
If you had a nice new Explorer, they ride so well on the highway, the passengers fall asleep and have no idea how long the ride is.
In the US we have a technology called 'cellular'. You can even access the internet without a physical connection, while your vehicle is moving! :P
Mrs richard and mrs explorer have no problem driving, so no single person has to drive the whole trip.
The drive across New York on I-90 is very easy, mostly straight and not too hilly.
I don't ever expect you to do that, but I think it is the best way to go for that type of trip.

sterlingdog

Sorry about your leg. Hope it gets better. Thanks for doing the research on my behalf.

Richard

sterlingdog

I have to admit that the picture of the Cadillac convertible is beautiful.

Richard

sterlingdog

You are correct. In fact, I did drive the Explorer to Boston last summer. It was a great trip to a wonderful city. The people were so friendly. We stayed at the Hyatt, did the harbor tour, Red Sox game, Paul Revere tour, city land tour, etc. We also drove north of the city to some of the seaside villages. The trip was flawless in every way.

Richard

sterlingdog

I'll have to let you and stickguy know when I'm coming up. That would be a fun gathering.

Richard

sterlingdog

Your comparison of the two makes good sense. Thanks.

Richard

driver100

Since you didn't mention how long it took you to get to Boston, my guess is flying is longer.

Flying isn't much less if counting time. Time to get to the aiport 1 hour. Wait at airport 2 hours. Flight 1.5 hrs. Time to hotel .5 hrs. Total 5 hours, but not tiring, well rested and ready to work.

Drive, probably 10 hours counting the border and finding our way to downtown Boston. And, very tired, from sitting for almost 10 hours straight. Can't work (if you mean work on a blackberry it isn't the same as a laptop, our manager needs wi-fi for his laptop) or read our books.

If I am talking about buying a few $100,000 worth of books, I would rather spend the extra $500 to get 3 people to Boston and back....and our health and safety are well worth the extra cost.

When my wife and I go to Florida for 2 weeks in February, we'll also fly. Maybe you think it is wimpy, but if I have 2 weeks off I don't want to spend 6 days driving to Florida and back.......even if I was driving a Bentley. To each his own.

sterlingdog

You really did sum it up so beautifully. Personalities and experiences naturally result in various decisions by all of us. Outside influences (other posters) can, at times, alter our decisions based on the information provided, the perceived intellect of the poster offering the advice, and the sincerity with which it is offered. It is akin to the mother/father syndrome---I should follow their advice because they know what is best and I trust them. It is at this point that the individual must decide whether they trust their own judgment, or the judgment of others who may or may not know best. It is this inner conflict that will eventually produce the right or wrong decision. And so it is with life---the continuing struggle with life's relationships.

Richard

jmonroe

It can't be JMonroe, because he hasn't been around for awhile, out shopping for furniture I presume.

Wrong again.

I was on vacation to Myrtle Beach SC last week and am just getting caught up on things. Third year in a row for that and I don’t like the 10 hour drive either but I didn’t do all the driving myself like last year and the year before that. This year I went with Son #1, DIL #1 and their 3 brats boys. He has an ’08 Town and Country. The 3 boys were in the third row bench seat and the girls were in the second row captains chairs. Worked out pretty well, really. He has a roof top carrier. We packed fairly light (for once) and everything fit, even two beach chairs and a ton of kids beach toys in the roof top thingy. Man, can those things pack away the stuff.

The drive is 10 hours from the Burgh; road time is 12/13 hours depending on the time for stopping to eat and the stops for the kids and girls. We stayed the night (Friday) at the Hampton Inn in Asheboro NC going down (about 3.5 hours from the beach). Drove straight through on the way home. Rode past Richard’s town of Pinehurst and could smell the Bar B Que beckoning us although it was around 9 AM on Saturday morning but we were in a B-line for the beach and didn’t have time to stop. Maybe next year (the girls are already talking about that).

Honest, for a second there, I thought I saw Richard in a Blue Sebring with the top down not to far from an exit to Pinehurst on I74/220 but I could see hair flying about and I knew right then and there it wasn’t him. Plus, I knew he couldn’t have a face like that 20 something beauty that was driving his look-a-like convertible. :surprise:

FWIW, I drove a Grand Marquis in Florida while on vacation there in ’07 and my brother that lives in South Florida had a LTC until the lease ran out last summer (he then got an ’09 Genny for his wife) and I have to say that those cars are very good riding road machines. They’re not nearly as floaty as most people think they are and I can see why Richard is giving consideration to one. So, knock it off already, huh ! :mad:

jmonroe

fezo

As long as you're not going to Newark (here we pronounce that "Nork") we'll be great. I don't do what most people go to AC for but it would be great to meet up.

Back to the LTC bit, the thing I always thought they excelled at was being a passenger car. I don't much like driving one but it's great to ride in. As a whole that's my take on large American cars.

Actually I liked the last DeVille my dad had as something to drive. I don't know what was different about that one from his earlier ones but it felt very different to drive. Man, I miss him!

fezo

Meanwhile, we did the Wright Brothers memorial today which is quite neat. Very emotional if you were brought up as a flying crazy as I was. My mom was an Amelia Earhart nut as a kid and the flying bug never left her. She got a pilot's license at 62 and flew single engine planes for close to 15 years. Nothing like being a couple of thousand feet up in the air knowing that the only thing between you and the hard earth below is your 70 year old mother! She'd have loved today.

Tomorrow it's down to the Hatteras lighthouse and on to Ocracoke!

sterlingdog

Regarding the Town Car, I can't really add much to the positive comments made by imidazol, tic, graphicguy, isell, or jmonroe. I'm basing the possibility on the following personal considerations:

1. I have owned one before and considered it to be a flawless experience.
2. The passenger space is appealing to me, especially with my hip problem.
3. The mpg that you quoted was the overall average. Estimated highway is 24. That is fine with me. In fact, the quoted 19 doesn't bother me.
4. I'm not looking for speed or off-road experiences. I spent that in my youth.
5. I don't enjoy "the feel of the road" experience like you do.
6. The handling and braking did fine for me on the test drive.
7. The review preferred a Chrysler 300 to the LTC. I strongly disagree on that point. I drove the 300 and found the interior materials to be quite inferior to the LTC. To me, the 300 felt too low to the ground. Neither did I experience any greater power or performance in traffic or on the open road. I just can't see their justification for that comparison.
8. Though I usually prefer a boxy look, there is something about the exterior styling that pleases me.
9. My driving now consists of interstate highways or small town streets and roads. The LTC seems well suited to both.
10. Finally, it is one of the choices agreed upon by both me and my wife. That in itself is an important consideration.

Richard

sterlingdog

Glad that you enjoyed your vacation to Myrtle Beach. If you stay in Asheboro again, take about an hour the next morning to visit the North Carolina State Zoo located there. They have quite a variety of animals and the kids would enjoy it, as well as the adults. Also, the K & W Restaurant there has a great breakfast.

You may have let a cat out of the bag. There are only two of us in this county who own the blue Sebring convertibles. The other guy does have hair, but his wife is anything but a beautiful 20 something. To be fair, perhaps it was his daughter. Now I have some detective work to do. :P

Tell the girls to be sure and have you stop in Pinehurst next year. My wife would be delighted to take them to all of the expensive boutiques and dress shops. Also, we have some wonderful places to have lunch.

Richard

sterlingdog

So glad that you could do the Wright Brothers Memorial. It's a great experience. What a wonderful mom you had---a pilot at age 62. Good for her! Sounds like you are enjoying your trip. Ocracoke is wonderful. I hope that the wild ponies are doing well. With the budget cuts, their up keep may be in question. There used to be many more of them than there are now. When I was a child, they weren't fenced in on the island. They roamed freely and it was a beautiful sight to behold.

Enjoy yourselves.

Richard

driver100

Sorry about your leg. Hope it gets better. Thanks for doing the research on my behalf.

The bad news is it was a torn leg muscle and it was extremely painful. The good news was it was not a hernia, and it is much better.

If I was buying a car I would want to know any information that might help me decide. If I have bought the car, I would rather not know, because it won't be helpful at that point.

It is like if your wife asks you how this dress looks. I will give my honest opinion because my wife and I have an understanding that we would rather know the truth.
Some men just say it looks fine, to save bad feelings....which is alright, but being truthful is really better for all concerned.

driver100

I was on vacation to Myrtle Beach SC last week and am just getting caught up on things.

Welcome back......sounds like now you can use a week off to have a real vacation.

I agree, GMs and LTCs are not that floaty, I am exaggerating a bit to get the point across. On the other hand, they aren't exactly a sports car either.

I did say, very few cars are truly bad these days. It just depends on your priorities.
Personally, although I am not a techie - I only use a cell phone to make an actual telephone call about twice a month, but, I do like my cars to have the latest technology and features. But, that's just me, but I do understand someone preferring a car that appeals to their nostalgic senses as well.

driver100

Regarding the Town Car, I can't really add much to the positive comments made by imidazol, tic, graphicguy, isell, or jmonroe.

You have weighed the facts and have made a very logical decision. The LTC does fill all your requirements quite well so it sounds like it could be the right car for you.

I was not impressed with the Chrysler 300 rental car we had in Florida 3 years ago. It had lots of power, but that car really had sloppy steering, you could turn the steering wheel about 4 inches in either direction without any response. I didn't feel safe going over 60 mph. It felt about the same as an old Ford Torino I once used as a driver training car....numb steering and poor handling.

Does that mean the Jeep and Explorer are still being considered?

sterlingdog

Yes, the Jeep, Explorer, Acadia, and LTC are still on the list. There is one other possibility, but I'll hold my thoughts on that one just now.

Richard

jmonroe

If you stay in Asheboro again, take about an hour the next morning to visit the North Carolina State Zoo located there.

There were 7 people in that van including three boys (8, 6 and 4 years old); I was already in the Zoo. :sick:

Also, the K & W Restaurant there has a great breakfast.

Ok, I’ll take that advice. We went to the IHOP. They had just opened and we thought that would be great since there was only ONE other person in the joint (my guess is he was a local old timer, there for his ritual morning coffee). The service was slooow; the waitress apologized saying the kitchen wasn’t warmed up yet :surprise: . I have never liked IHOPS anyway but, like I said, it was early and this place was open so we dropped in. Never again.

Tell the girls to be sure and have you stop in Pinehurst next year. My wife would be delighted to take them to all of the expensive boutiques and dress shops.

Yeah…right. I’ll be flying past that Pinehurst exit even faster the next time I go by it.

jmonroe

graphicguy

trying to steer someone away from buying a used VW Jetta due to the well-documented and numerous electrical issues. Of course he bought it anyway, and his was an exception, so of course I was wrong.

Kirstie...can we then assume that since you were "wrong" that the relationship pretty much ended at that point? :P

graphicguy

Richard....you already know I'm going to agree with you. Knowing what you know about the LTC, you understand it's virtues (and its demerits).

Just as a side note, I travel to Orlando on business pretty regularly. I was down there a couple of weeks ago. For whatever reason, my rental car agency upgraded me to a Chryco 300. Gotta agree about your assessment. Given the area it is supposed to compete in, could they have possibly made it any cheaper in the interior? Some pretty poor materials, too. I understand it came out when Schremp or "Dr Z" was at the helm, but it was woeful.

On top of that, it only had about 9K miles on it. And, those of your who live in the area know about the brief afternoon showers. I don't know how these cars handle in the snow. But, they're down right scary in the rain. I had the [non-permissible content removed] end kick out on me just going around modest corners.

driver100

There is one other possibility, but I'll hold my thoughts on that one just now.

Still hope, I just know it is the GLK! :P

driver100

I was reading the car section of the newspaper and there was an article about the 1955 and 56 model Dodge Lancer La Femme. Brought back some memories;

1955
Dodge received the project and renamed the concept the La Femme, which began as a 1955 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer "spring special" hardtop two-door coupe, painted "Sapphire White" and "Heather Rose". From there, the exterior received special gold-colored "La Femme" scripts that replaced the standard "Custom Royal Lancer" scripts on the cars front fenders.

The interior of the car also received attention and features. 1955 La Femme interiors were upholstered in a special tapestry material featuring pink rosebuds on a pale silver-pink background and pale pink vinyl trim. The La Femme also came with a keystone-shaped, pink calfskin purse that coordinated with the interior of the car. The purse could be stowed in a special compartment built into the back of the passenger seat, and its gold-plated medallion faced outward. This brushed-metal medallion was large enough to have the owner's name engraved upon it.

La Femme