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Comments
nyc, You are doing great, and you are telling a really good story.
I nominate you for this weeks gold star.
Good luck, though you don't need it, you are playing it perfectly.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I didn't know we got to vote on what car Richard buys. I vote GLK.
But, why Acadia? Especially over a "Lincoln Town Car"!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I know why you are considering the Acadia.
It is like a tribute to your Canadian friends.
Definition of Acadia:
What was acadia?
French History
Answer
Acadia was the settlement in what is now Nova Scotia. It was a french settlement. Everyone was Roman Catholic.
Looks like the GLK is still in the race........ :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And, unlike Kirstie_H, I rarely make a mistake on vehicle recommendations... :surprise:
On another topic, our X3 has a very stiff ride, for an SUV.. We happen to like it that way, but I could see how a lot of other people might hate it...
regards,
kyfdx
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Isn't that the truth. Before I bought my Genesis I thought I wanted something with some road feel and a firmer ride. After living with it for 14K and 16 months, I'll take my plush riding sedan back. The roads here in southern NJ are constantly under construction I just can't stand feeling everything ripple in the road. Last night I put about a hundred miles on it down and back to the A/C airport picking up my parents and I couldn't wait to get out of it.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
So I guess I can add that some cars are driven to keep spouses happy.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Here is a new concept for you, it's called poetic license.
it is actually less tiring on long drives
Thats not what makes drives more or less tiring. What makes driving more tiring is when you get subject to thousands upon thousands of small sudden jarring movements that a firmer ride gives. Tell me what would be more tire you out faster, sitting in a soft comfortable chair that doesn't hold you in place as well or sitting in one a bit firmer that holds you in place better but has a little kid right behind you constantly kicking the chair?
So in short its not as much how the seat fits you as much as how the car jars you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
LOL!
Kirstie, I was going to use another part of your post for a wise crack, but thought better of it since we're in polite company, and you're a polite person (with an obvious mean streak).
NYC....thanks for subscribving to my annual, perpetually renewing supscription to "How to Wrangle Snakes, and Converse with Patent Leather Wearers".
In all seriousness, I've obviously never met your Porsche sales person, but I don't like him just by what you've described.
What? He doesn't deal with the finance side of things? I bet if one of his sales starts going south because of an error in F&I was made he'd certainly deal with his F&I dept.
My biggest problem is once the deal is struck, and you head into F&I, too many things can go wrong. You think you have a deal, only to find out they're adding an enormous "doc fee" to the deal. Or, as one Infiniti dealer does down in central KY, they add $500 to every deal to cover "additional inspections and prep" (the car is new, and the factory already pays them to do PDI). I want to avoid all of that.
In NY, I would imagine there's more than one Porsche dealer. If this sales person doesn't want to deal with a true OUT THE DOOR price (inc TTL, doc, etc), I'd move on. I would take his answer as "no" and tell him as much if he's trying to pawn you off to finalize the deal with F&I. If the sales person can't take your OTD number to his manager, then he can't take his number to the manager, either. Call him back and tell him your offer stands, and you're ready to give him your credit card deposit on it over the phone if it's accepted....one time offer. It's up to him whether he wants to accept, or reject it. But, you're not going to spend more time calling his F&I guy to get TTL, fees, etc.
Put the ball back in his court. Of all dealerships who should be more customer service focused, it should be a Porsche dealership.
Good luck and let us know how this turns out.
And it's not as if I'm a kid. I'm over 60, but I'm not ready for a wallowing, seasickness-inducing land yacht.
I haven’t driven or ridden in a 5 or 7 series but I think this is what I got when I bought the Genny. I know some don’t like the ride of the Genny because they want a very cushy ride but I like combination of how it rides and handles; pretty much a middle of the road type of car.
With that setup, you can spend 8 or 10 hours behind the wheel without tiring yourself out.
Even with the comfortable ride of the Genny, 10 hours in one day is my limit. I have never been one that can drive 12 or more hours in a day. That has always been waaay too much for me, regardless of how the car rides/handles.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
snakie: "LESS FILLING!"
driver: "TASTE GREAT!"
Agreed. Something just doesn't sound right with that salesman not wanting to do an OTD deal. carguy might get the price he wants, then come in to do the paper work and find himself looking at all these weird dealer fees he's never heard of. Definitely stick with an OTD price.
Too bad madmanmoo doesn't post here anymore. He's been a Porsche salesman for a number of years now, may have a little more insight into the matter.
Now there's a phrase you're not going to see too often -- just goes to show that there's a lid for every pot.
There are a lot of people out here in AZ driving cars that also follow the road, somewhat. As long as one gives them wide berth, there is a certain amount of entertainment value.
it is actually less tiring on long drives
That's not what makes drives more or less tiring. What makes driving more tiring is when you get subject to thousands upon thousands of small sudden jarring movements that a firmer ride gives.
I think that must be poetic license. "Thousands upon thousands of small sudden jarring movements".
You've got the wrong idea. In the 3 Series, when you hit a bump, you know you are on rough road but you don't feel it....so you have a sense of the road through the steering. The car doesn't float over the bump hiding the fact you might want to be aware thast the road isn't smooth.
Think of it this way, would you like to go through life experiencing everything clearly...or would you like to go through in an alcoholic haze so you miss the little imperfections? - Now that's poetic license!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Even those who expressed a ride concern at purchase would tell me after a short period of ownership that they would have a hard time going back, and loved the feeling of comfort and control.
I didn't think that you were old enough to remember that. The "doctor's car" label was tied to the era of house calls, which was pretty much over by 1960. When your doctor came to your house to treat you, he didn't want to show up in something flashier than what your Dad was driving. Otherwise, Dad would throw a fit when he saw the bill.
When he made house calls, our doctor drove a Roadmaster, which shared its platform & amenities with the Sedan de Ville. The color was always navy blue or black, which wasn't considered to be a cool color in the 1950s.
Then, after he stopped making house calls, he switched to a Lincoln Continental. He alternated between Lincolns & Caddies until the mid-70s, when he started buying 450SE Mercedes-Benzes.
By the early 80s, big Benzes had taken over as doctors' cars in the NY metro area.
Definitely, the dealership doesn't want to do an OTD price over the phone. The add on fees and the extras have to get added on first. But, I don't think too many luxury car dealers are going to want to give an OTD price over the phone...they don't know who they are talking to for one thing.
Also, there are going to be extras, and that is a certainty. Isell knows this, but maybe he can tell us if he would ever have done an OTD price over the phone.
When I bought my X3 I left the dealership and when they called I said I would take the car, but I wanted an extra $1000 more for the trade in and an extra $1000 off on the new one. He agreed over the phone, but they had to go through F&I dance.
I am pretty sure they wouldn't have done an OTD price on the phone.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's an interesting choice of words for a stiff and rough ride. Comfort probably would not pass the thesaurus test:
abundance, alleviation, amenity, assuagement, bed of roses, cheer, cheerfulness, complacency, contentment, convenience, coziness, creature comforts, enjoyment, exhilaration, facility, gratification, happiness, luxury, opulence, peacefulness, pleasure, plenty, poise, quiet, relaxation, relief, repose, rest, restfulness, satisfaction, snugness, succor, sufficiency, warmth, well-being
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But...most buyers don't care, they only care about PRICE and then wonder why they have to deal with unprofessional people.
This wasn't directed tto you nycarguy...just some rambling thoughts.
Sometimes that worked and sometimes it didn't. It never failed to amaze me just how downright cheap some people can be. I'm not talking frugal now. There is a difference. A big one!
Nobody likes talking about OTD numbers because we have no control over tax and license. I would tell them what the tax and license would be and inform them of the 150.00 doc fee.
Any person with a 5th grade education should be able to take an OTD number and back out the tax and license from that. It doesn't take a "Finance guy" to do that.
Most buyers did not find the ride to be "stiff and rough". And for many people, control is a big part of comfort, much more so than a soft ride. Probably more so for drivers than passive non car enthusiasts.
The definition of comfort is "to make physically comfortable", and in my opinion this certainly applies to the seats, ergonomics, handling and control in most BMW's and MB's.
I guess different strokes for different folks. That's what makes the world go 'round.
Now that is funny!
Jwilliams said this;
Even those who expressed a ride concern at purchase would tell me after a short period of ownership that they would have a hard time going back, and loved the feeling of comfort and control.
Immidazo said That's an interesting choice of words for a stiff and rough ride.
Let me use about my 100th example. Many people when they are younger like to add 3 creams and 3 sugars to their coffee. When they get older they might take it black or eliminate the sugar, because they want the true coffee flavor to come through...not some candied down phony concoction. Well, that is what a spongy ride and numb steering do......dumb down the whole experience.
Jwilliams is correct in my case, the firm ride (not to be confused with rough ride) started in my 2002 Jeep Cherokee. Since experiencing this firmir ride, and it might take awhile to get used to it, I would not want to go back to mushy and phony. It isn't for every one, but if you want to maximize the driving experience, you can't have great handling and steering and an on a cloud feeling ride.
That's my last post on this topic for the next 4 weeks.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Also some try to equate anything that's not a Honda brittle ride or the likes with someone who has no taste or discrimination in their choice of vehicle.
That also does not apply.
People get used to anything as a rough ride and feel that's needed to make themselves part of a class or group which they feel carries some form of self-approbation.
>That's my last post on this topic for the next 4 weeks.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sorry, but I speak only English. Perhaps you could translate this?
Sorry if I'm wrong. Again, different strokes.......
Back in 1998 my wife decided to get her first BMW(a 3 Series); after taking it on several long trips to visit family she told me that she now understood why I like Bimmers so much. She went on to explain that she could drive for several hours and arrive at her destination and not feel beaten up or exhausted.
Our two families are textbook examples of how Detroit lost a generation of buyers. My side of the family drove nothing but Chevys, Fords,and Lincolns until I left the fold in 1979 and bought a Plymouth(Mitsubishi) Arrow 2.6 GT. Since that time I've bought two American products, both used- a 1984 T Bird Turbo Coupe that I used as a work beater to keep miles off my M6 and my 1999 Jeep which was bought for convenience as well as to remove an avenue of attack from a political opponent.
As foe my wife's family, they drove absolutely nothing but Buicks. In fact, my wife was driving a Skylark T Type when we married but she soon switched from Buicks to Merkur to Volvo to Nissan and finally settled on BMW(for the last 12 years anyway, Although I suspect her next ride will be a Mini Clubman). Her brother now buys nothing but Toyotas.
As for my son, he said he wouldn't mind having a classic Sixties musclecar, but he's looking forward to driving my 1975 2002. All of his friends think it is really cool- although I suspect a lot of the perceived coolness comes from the fact that a cabriolet version of my son's future ride is featured in a recent Katy Perry video... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
–noun
1. approval; commendation.
2. official approval or sanction.
3. Obsolete . conclusive proof.
Courtesy of dictionary.com
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Was that a Freudian slip? I didn't know that soft or firm rides were now defined by geographical or cultural locations. I believe that some British do drive Rolls Royce and Bentley. Some Germans do drive the large Mercedes. Talk about poetic license inferences---Americans are soft? I beg to differ.
Richard
Richard
About five years ago, I received an internet lead from one of the major companies we do business with. It was on a new Odyssey.
It was easy to tell that he only wanted a number to pit me against other stores.
I invited them in and we got together. He arrived with his wife and they were two of the coldest people I had ever met. There was no building any kind of a rapport with these ice cubes and I reacted accordingly. No chit chat, just answered questions.
Having had received my fleet pricing, he went to work and he shopped my number to death. Now, they HAD to have a certain model and color and by luck, I had the only one in the district. Of course, I wrote DO NOT D/T in the stockbook knowing the other stores he called would try to get it.
I suspect he figured that out and was really annoyed that the other stores probably told him..." ABC Honda has one but they won't do a trade for it"
Bottom line, he played every trick in the book. They had a ratty Windstar that I knew they were going to spring on me at the last minute and they did! Of course, they wanted top dollar for this pig sty of a Ford that we knew our wholesalers would have little interest in buying from us. It was so filthy inside that I didn't want to drive it to our wholesale area.
Finally, the deal was done and they were added to my very short list of customers that I hoped I never saw again. After selling literally thousands of new and used cars over my 13 plus years, there were probably five people on that list.
They left without a smile and he went to an Odyssey Club forum and trashed me by name! I tried to gently refute what he had said without disclosing I was the person who sold him the Odyssey and got banned for my efforts.
I know not every customers is going to like me even thought I maintained one of the higest survey scores in our district. It's just too bad when a person can go into a forum and trash someone who can't respond.
In every kind of retail business there will always be a certain percentage of customers you simply don't want. It is a VERY small percentage but they are out there. They are never happy and they will screw up the heads of the people who get stuck with them.
Or "that person is driving a hyundai he/she must be cheap"
Does not bother me per se as I don't really worry about what others are thinking...
"Raced a Sienna XLE AWD today"
"Put thez 26" Chrome Rimz on my Momz '08 EXL RES & she got mad"
I'm surprised you even wasted your time trying to defend yourself. Nevertheless, that is a very messed up thing to do.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
But regarding the debate over soft seats vs soft ride. I will always remember something my Mother told me many years ago as I squirmed in unbearable discomfort due to two primary reasons; the combination of a degenerative bone disease in my spine and her horrid 1988 New Yorker pillow top embroidered sofa lookalike seats. Gosh they were awful. And squishy...they let you float all over the place and the only way I could drive it was to roll up my sweater and stick it in the small of my back for at least some semblance of lumbar support. When I suggested that Chrysler missed the mark by such a huge degree on so many levels with that car, but especially the seats, she defended them with a comment I had never thought of before. And because she was an extremely intelligent little woman, you don't go being too quick to discount her opinions. As you would often discover on your own if you did, she knew a LOT about things. And that day I realized why the puffy squishy seats. You want to know what she said right? Well she merely pointed out that when you get older, your body is more prone to pain by pressure points. And she said that all old (aging) people will gravitate to seats that may feel squishy, and even lack support, in lieu of alleviating the pressure-point pain. Who wudda thunk?
So because of her comment, I have forever since had a renewed respect for other's opinions on what they like, even if they not only might lack the ability to communicate why they like something, they may not even know why themselves but they know what they like.
For me, interior noise (and abrupt ride with numb/vague/lazy steering and crap seats) are what exhausts me on a long drive. I used to drive long-haul heavy trucks and did a lot of miles in a week. I had a good seat and air ride suspension (which was tiring because of the vagueness of feel of the road {talk about putting emphasis on the quality of your shocks}) so I had good support, and the air took the shock out of things, but aside from the lack of sleep, still, noise and relatively numb handling (compared to a car) and often a HCG and irregularly-weighted loads, all contributed to the exhaustion factor.
Anyway, my original point is one that still hasn't been mentioned until now, and it's simply that (a seat) what is uncomfortable to one person, be it by visual and/or literal discoverings, may be just what the doc orders for you in 25 to 40 years.
Of course that's still no excuse for numb steering..
Speaking of which, these electric power assist steering systems..Basically no matter where I read or what I hear, they are all problematic with feel or lack of and an assortment of anomalies. Reacting weirdly from everything from a too smooth straight road for too long a period of time, becomes stiff when you do want to steer, to exaggerated inputs at times coming out of corners. Is BMW and MB etc using these electric systems? And if so, we have to assume a Bimmer driver simply would NOT put up with ANY degree of poor steering quirks. Steering used to be (and probably still is) one of the major reasons someone pays a premium for a BMW, no?
This is another part of the equasion. I actually called a second dealer whom I called after my Mom originally drove the Cayenne and my follow up phone call was not returned. I'll fill in the rest of this back story later. I called him back and told him we were once again interested in the Cayenne. If he meets my price ($2,000 over invoice), I'll give him my credit card number & order the car.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Yeah, I should have just blown it off but at the time, it really bothered me and for some reason still does.
I did learn something that has often been stated in these forums and this is SO true.
The people who grind the most and play every trick in the book are the ones that are the unhappiest. They aren't a bit loyal, they don't refer people to me, they didn't stop by to say hello when in for service.
Seems like a tough way to go through life but that's me!
LOL! Only you would have thought of that!
or "sterility", one of the two! "
Driver--
No it's cycling atop the aforementioned bicycle seat, connected to rough pavement by two narrow high pressure tires which causes sterility. There's firm and there's FIRM driving.
Another cause of sterility is the Ford Windstar (or Femstar as it was affectionately known). Wasn't castration stipulated in the contract as an agreed upon precondition of ownership? :sick: :shades:
Gogiboy
I wasn't much of a mechanic back then. If I had of been a bit more enterprising I should have gotten in there and cleaned and lubed the cables the following summer. I ended up doing the reverse thing for two winters...ahh the good ol' days..
I learned that on a trip up through Nova Scotia a few years ago.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Hey...wait a minute.
Does not bother me per se as I don't really worry about what others are thinking...
Easy for you to say you’re not the one driving a throw-away. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You should have had a friend write a complimentary letter to the forum, bashing that guy.
If you ever miss the selling business, just think about that moron, and you will remember how lucky you are.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Have you checked out the new Buick Regal? Sharp in and out. A sports sedan that combines both driving comfort and road feel for a unique and unsurpassed driving experience.
Very nice post and you make a valid point possibly, for soft spongy seats in certain situations.....maybe. I know some people who have back or neck pain and they are told they will be better off in a straight chair, rather than say a sofa (is that an American word...sounds French or Italian or something)? ou could also get bed sore type symptoms as the blood settles in to the parts of your body that have sunk down into the seats.
The point is....who really knows, you like what you like. But, it is Cadillac that is trying to copy the ride and feel of a BMW, so I think more people prefer firm to soft, as far as car seats are concerned.
If you want to try really bad steering try a Honda Civic with that electronic assist.
After driving a BMW you could find yourself on someone's lawn. There is no relationship between steering the wheel and what the wheels are doing or any feel of the road....it is like having an air steering wheel (as in air guitar).
By the way, I am not writing on this topic for 4 weeks unless directly brought into the conversation.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250