By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Unless they are doing a comparison with a BMW 3 series. Then everything else sucks.
I do know that the Mayor of Boston is pushing real hard to have all hybrid taxis. As a matter of fact there are incentives to use hybrids instead of conventional vehicles. The entire fleet must be hybrids by 2015 as I understand it.
There is an injunction now to hold off the Mayor, but I wonder how long that will last?
Yeah, the Crown Vics do look somewhat like low-riders...LOL.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And even if these batteries are lasting the 8 year wty period, how much longer are they expected to last? We KNOW that NmH and lithium cells do wear out with time. And when they are done, they are really done.
And what about all the electronic tech going on with the rest of the system? These things are very very complex, and I suspect not anywhere close to being affordable to repair.
Does anyone remember the nightmare with Honda's first hybrid, the Insight? There is one around town up here (altho haven't seen it for quite some time now come to think of it..maybe she finally dumped it) that had huge lettering all around the car stating what a PITA it had been and that Honda had not been very helpful. I think her father left it to her when he died and the car was only half way thru wty. I think shortly after she got it, it spent more time in Honda's parking lot, than hers. And years later the wty ran out even though (if i recall) the same issues it had were never ever actually fixed right, so was a recurring claim. That of course was her beef.
And if you read tests of a Highlander hybrid up here, they get just barely better mileage than their gas-only cousins. I'm not sold on the technology yet. Not with the restrictions of battery tech as we now know it, and the varying climate throughout NA which will always be an issue.
1.Crown Vic / TownCar
2.Ford Escape hybrid
3.Toyota Sienna
4.Toyota Camry Hybrid
5.Nissan Altima Hybrid
And all these are very reliable !!! Probably can take the rough beating and thrashing of those crazy taxi drivers who are a law onto themselves and break all the road laws ,rarely following any !! :P
And boy,if you drive in NYC you can drive anywhere in the US !!
I would tend to agree del but the worst taxi driver we had was in Chicago. I think the driver was a Taliban guy. He would drive at full speed when he could, and then change lanes at the last possible moment to avoid crashing into other cars. On the other hand, we have had some really good drivers in Chicago too...one was a woman driver who drove very carefully and got us where we were going in good condition...gave her an extra big tip!
I like your list too, very different than what I expected. I didn't think taxi drivers would opt for technology which might be expensive to repair....but, I suppose the daily savings make it worthwhile.
Did you buy a Saturn or something to get around in NYC? How is that working out?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The cost a lot more and don't get that much better mileage.
I think it's a statement people want to make that leads them to buy one.
Very true, you said a lot in a few words. Our son in law bought one because that's what the kids wanted. Funny, kids don't seem to turn off lights when they leave a room, can leave TVs, PCs, iPads, all on, but they want an environmentally friendly car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm into cars and I couldn't tell hybrid from non hybrid by looking under the hood.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Great idea Mako. I think we should go into business, and make some of these decals and sell them. Maybe it would go along with our applying cloth roofs business I was going to open....in Florida! Every 10th car seems to have one of those......or even better the phony convertible roof! That is one that doesn't make sense to me...why do you want your car to look like a convertible when it isn't, especially when it is a four door Cadillac or Avalon?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
So far, very good. I check the air pressure (these days you have to put a dollar into the air compressor machine) and one tire was very low....about 22 lbs instead of 32. It would be nice if the light told you which tire, but it isn't too much of a problem checking them all.
The real problem is figuring out how to get the light to go off....which is done by resetting. You have to turn the car off, press one button on the signal stalk until it gets to reset, then let go - and hold it for about 5 seconds until it says RESET OK, and then you drive off and the warning light should go off.
My wife has a PHD and is pretty good mechanically, but she read the instructions while I tried to do what it said. I had to turn the engine off and restart it about 6 times to get the warning light to go off.
Life shouldn't be this complicated.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well thats that high quality German engineering that you like so much. In my low tech car the light resets by putting in enough air into the tire to properly inflate it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It is the 1st time I have added air in almost 3 years. It has been 24 hours and the warning light did not come back on, so I am hoping it is just normal leakage. The car has Run Flat tires so they can't be repaired, they cost about $400 each, so I hope it isn't a flat. You're lucky, nothing wrong with an $8 patch job.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You're right snake. Next time I will check out a Sonata..........NOT!
No, I'll put up with this inconvenience to get the "feel of the road", don't want to ever go back to driving a box with a steering wheel.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That is a cheap easy way tyo fix a flat and not a good thing to do. They need to remove the tire from the rim and patch it from teh inside with a proper patch.
I didn't know places were still plugging tires!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
1850 miles over the last week on the Explorer.
I'm up to 108k, so I think I am catching up to you.
We averaged 18.5 mpg over the whole trip. It could have been better, but I didn't close the cargo box correctly at one point, and it resulted in much lower mileage for 1 tank.
The big GM SUV's were probably the most plentiful vehicles I saw being used to deliver the kids, but Explorers like ours were probably the most I saw of any single model.
A larger vehicle would be nice on these load 'em up trips, but they are more of a pain to drive on a daily basis.
Yup, I love the rough ride, but, I prefer to call it "firm" ride, or, could be called, "not sloppy" ride.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"The dealer told me to lie on the customer satisfaction survey I'd get from Honda. "If you have any problems, just mark 100% on the CSS and call me and we'll work it out." I told him I was going to be honest, and he said "come on, all you'll be doing is ruining the commission for the salesman, and hurting yourself". It's like they were real scared. Also, they offered me a free tank of gas if I return the CSS to them personally. It's setup to be mailed right back to Honda. Why would they want to get their hands on it first?"
More at: buying tips
But is this true?
If they required you to purchase extended warranties or credit life insurance as a condition for loan approval (which is illegal), indicate that on the survey and tell them you are calling the Consumer Affairs Division to complain.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
He'd fit right in driving in China. Or Boston for that matter.
In the US it's hard to find worse drivers than in Boston. They take bad driving very seriously. They must us Jersey folks look like amateurs.
Was the cab number displayed on the roof (IIRC) a high number? That's supposed to indicate the number of accidents the driver has had.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
On my Mazda 3 the light would come on if temps were below ~35 degrees. After a few minutes of driving the tires would warm up and the light would go out on its own.
Skip forward to my C350 - even when cold the light does not come on - in fact the only time it did come on is when I had to have a tire re-mounted. As I drove away it came on. I went around the block, they checked (one tire down a couple of PSI) added some air and gave me the car back. Not sure if they reset it or not - but the light was out.
I do agree, would be nice if the system told you which tire was low...
2) Run flat tires can have punctures repaired. Unless it is in the very outer edge of the tread. Repair is about same as non-runflat tires. Break the tire down and repair with a patch/plug from the inside. Goodyear recommends not doing a second repair on their runflats. Finding a shop that has the equipment to break down a runflat is the main problem. Very stiff sidewalls, I think the machine that pulls the bar around the tire is not to be used.
The latest sales figures are from 2008 and the first five months of 2009. During that period, the Ford Motor Company sold 10,865 Lincoln Town Cars. Based on that number, I would think that a few people prefer the Town Car---not all elderly Americans in wheelchairs as your cartoon suggests.
Though Edmunds, a respected reviewer, made extremely negative remarks regarding the Town Car, Consumer Guide was a bit more balanced:
"This vehicle's strengths are comfort, materials, ride quality, and braking; with weaknesses mentioned in acceleration and handling. The Town Car continues to be one of the safest cars available on the North American market."
During the last three years, I have often been bashed and slapped about my domestic preferences---Grand Marquis, Chrysler Sebring, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Explorer, and others. That's fine. Though none of them score perfection, I am reminded that they all gave driving pleasure to millions of satisfied Americans. I hardly think that foreign brands which include BMW, Mercedes, etc. are totally without flaw, though most have many admirable qualities.
When we do make our choice, I doubt that a sales story would serve any real purpose or generate much real interest, other than additional bashing for the choice made. Regarding the make, model, or price paid, there will always be those posters who felt that you made the worst possible deal. Then again, there are those posters who offer congratulations and wish you well. While I appreciate constructive criticism, I have to make my own decision. As Jayrider, Graphicguy, and others point out, you should purchase what you like and what will make you happy. Like people, there are many types of cars. They don't all appeal to everyone. One of the wonderful things still possible in America is that we have choices. As long as that freedom lasts, I do intend to exercise it.
Richard
Bolivar, as noted, they can be repaired IF the leak is in a relatively easy position to be repaired. As you also note, you have to find a tire dealer who actually knows how to repair run flats.
Then, there's the ride. With such stiff sidewalls, they ride very harsh. Then, there's the cost to replace them (yep, $400/ea, plus installation sounds about right). And, you can actually pick up a puncture that won't allow them to be driven. In that case, you're stuck since you have no spare, and can't even inflate the tire with enough air to drive it to the nearest repair center. That requires a tow job.
Actually, BMW is in the midst of settling a law suit regarding the use of run flats. Don't know how far back the lawsuit goes, but I saw a settlement offering the difference in cost of run flats to conventional tires when owners replaced them.
All that grief for what? So that BMW can save a few bucks on putting in a doughnut spare? That's going just a bit too far.
I am sure that the warning monitor has to be reset. Only in Snakes Hyundai does it get reset automatically.....that seems odd. Sometimes, cars are over engineered, and simple just works better. The Optima rental car I rented in the summer had all the basic gadgets needed, and for most people that is probably sufficient, some people like the extras like an outside thermometer, mirrors and seats that reset for each driver, a right hand mirror that goes down when the car is in reverse (so you can see the curb), a service light that tells you when you will need your next oil change, a warning bell that rings when the temperature is close to freezing, etc.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't bother to check air pressure because that is what the warning light system is for. It does get checked about 3 times a year when I go in for an oil change, and get snow tires put on or off. Not much use in having a sophisticated tire warning system if I am going to inspect the tires each time I go for a drive...
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It was the Edmunds review. Glad to hear that the C&D and USAToday were both positive.
Richard
I have to admit, I found that review to be hilarious. Sorry, but you must have had a few chuckles there.
true American classic cars" have been produced at the St. Thomas Assembly Plant in Ontario, Canada since 2007
Don't shoot the messenger. The Linc TC (to be referred to as LTC) was designed in Detroit during the glory days of the D3. Many D3 cars are assembled in Canada because the labor pool seems to produce pretty good cars, and the Canadian dollar is lower. Plus, because of our medical insurance programs, there is a savings to the manufacturer. Still made by union guys who probably spit on every LTC they assemble(Not nice - pretend I didn't say that).
I have often been bashed and slapped about my domestic preferences---Grand Marquis, Chrysler Sebring, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Explorer, and others
I don't think I have ever put down any brand preference. I just report what I find. I have owned many GMs, 2 Jeeps, a few Fords and they were all pretty good cars for me, and I enjoyed driving them. I think the LTC, Jeep, Sebring, Explorer are all good cars, and I don't think just because a car is a European brand it is necessarily better. All, I am saying, is every car has unique features and it would be wise just to try a few different cars to see what suits you best.
. One of the wonderful things still possible in America is that we have choices.
You do have a choice and I wouldn't criticize your choice. I am trying to give you some useful information which might save you $50,000, and it is based on a real reviewers impressions, not on my opinions. I can understand why you would like the idea of a LTC, I really do get it, but, I wouldn't feel good about letting you buy that car without sending you the review.
Isell said it very well, when he said people buy hybrids because they are making a statement. I think, many people buy American, because they are making a statement.
Nothing wrong in that, buy what you like. But, check the reviews just so you have as much information as possible. I know reviews aren't 100% meaningful, but they do contain certain facts, which you do have to consider. I was in a friends Lincoln MKZ, it is about 5 years old, and it is a great car from the back seat. Very comfortable, lots of room, nice interior, great ride, smooth and quiet, ....personally, I think that would be a more satisfying purchase. The Jeep and the Explorer have the latest technology and advances so I would think those would be better choices...but those are just personal opinions....not telling you what to do - that's up to you.
One more thought, a GM and LTC have always been your dream car, so that might mean more than any review. Have fun deciding!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think many of the "bashers" of the Town Car haven't even driven one. It is an old design and lacking some of the latest safefy features and is a bit down on power compared to some of the newer models. What it does offer is a fantastic ride alot of interior room and comfort. The body on frame construction is tough as nails and they are reliable cars. They handle fairly well for their size and since 03 have rack and pinion steering for a bit more control. I have driven several (and GMs too) fairly aggressively and never had any problems.
Like everyone mentioned buy what you want! No manufacturer has anything like the Town Car/GM any longer. It is such a relaxing car to drive. When my Genesis comes off lease I am seriously considering one myself!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
An overgrown Ford Fusion over a Town Car? Tell me you are kidding!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Richard
VERDUGO, Go back to Post #57358.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm sorry if anything I might have said rained on your parade a bit, Richard. That certainly wasn't my intention. I like getting into the details and underpinnings of machinery. I like to see how 'it works'. So in doing so, my comments...simply by default, pick apart the technology.
There is no question though, that with enough mass, body on frame can be a force to be reckoned with in a crash nowadays. Accordian-style crinkling only goes so far with the number of lighter vehicles on the roads these days. It puts me in mind of tough bugs. Hornets and ants are two of the toughest I have ever encountered. You can step on a hornet with soft soled shoes and start to press enough that it starts to crunch, let up a bit and take a peak and the thing is still able to fly off, only with more attitude than in the beginning. But if you step down and roll forward onto the ball of your foot, even the hornet's armour (armor) eventually caves under the pressure. At times mass makes the difference.
When I think of a large car like the TC, I see it more as 'cruiser'. A relaxed tourer. You don't go rushing around as you take a drive on the Tail of the Dragon through Deals Gap. You are laid back and just cruising gently. So great cornering etc aren't high on that owner's list of priorities. Good brakes is always appreciated, and it looks like Ford has addressed that. And good lighting. As I age I find there is no such thing as too much light. I simply can't take night driving for granted like I used to in my 20's and 30's. So before you buy any of your fine choices, I recommend driving them all at night, and get out of town on a dark rainy night. Use low beam more than high. That in itself has helped me rule out certain cars I liked in years past. Or....does the defroster blow the warm air low enough on the windshield that wet snow doesn't start building up and not let the wiper reach its return stroke area comfortably, thereby giving you prematurely worn out linkages or motors. Or, is there enough room between the accelerator and the brake pedal with your big work or winter boots on? Can you see out of it when you are trying to park? It takes years to gain the wisdom that little/big? stuff like that takes to garner.
Personally, I would still love to hear about your purchase! And I would like to make an appeal to others to curb any temptation to spoil it for you. Although I don't think anyone here really meant any real harm though. I sorta took it more as an affectionate or endearing-like ribbing of an internet friend their senior. Had we been together joking around in a pub over a few beers, there would have been smiles and winks with any of the ribbing.
I have been in the back seat of a Fusion, and in Boston the back seat of a Crown Vic, which is probably a basic edition of a Linc Town Car. The Fusion was much better, higher seat, bigger windows, more padding, nicer fit and finish. Not to mention firmer ride. So, yes, I would take a glorified Fusion over a LTC any time.
Especially, an older one before they put that railroad scooper grill on it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
True. I guess people are just wanting to help. But, if someone says they want a Jeep Grand Cherokee, why try to steer them to another vehicle? Certainly don't make harsh comments about a car they are considering buying. My brother has a Jeep Patriot, my sister a Jeep Liberty... they've both been excellent cars.
If tbaxxon is still out there, I saw a purple Dodge Stealth for sale the other day in a shopping mall. If still interested in those true performance cars, post here and I'll go find out the details.
Well said gimme. That is what it was, but also a real review to think about, not just a personal opinion.
By the way, no one saw this guys amazing garage;
How would you like to park in this garage
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You do realize that the Crown Vic taxi you were in was most likely a Police Intercepter (P71). This model has stiffer suspension and the most basic interior package. Its hardly a Town Car inside.
Just a slight difference?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Someone has to be paying the costs of the medical system. Is that the general population paying higher taxes to cover the cost? Is that the reduction in services available to the general public (rationing)? Is that the other taxes paid by the manufacturers? Is that the reduction in wages paid because the manufacturer is paying higher costs?
In other words, the costs don't just disappear (although US politicians tried to make some people think they just go away with higher costs to a higher actuarial population).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
True! The rest are the ones that get stretched into two block long stretch limos!
I thought the Outlook I sat in was a total barge. Giant hood too (worse than trying to see over the old International Ryder truck I used to drive).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
He says his mileage is not quite as good as the ML350 overall, but is also on 87 octane instead of the expensive stuff the Benz demanded. He says that the Buick is no Benz, but doesn't regret his decision. The Benz is "going to cost some poor unsuspecting soul out there a great deal of money to keep on the road if they don't keep buying ext wty for it". He is very tall, 6'6" so is limited to what he can fit in comfortably. I was sitting in the Enclave a couple weeks back up at the cottage and it is hard to see out of to the rear, as are many. It's a pretty big vehicle. He did say that really there was only two things that are notably different in the two rides. The Benz was the better handler and carried its weight better, and the seats and stereo were also better. He bought the Benz 2 years old with 24 mo wty left. Still he figures it cost him about 16 grand for 20 mo of ownership (just depreciation!) so exclusivity doesn't come cheap. While I would like to have an extremely quiet ride, I still find the premium for an Enclave over an Acadia hard to justify.
All these boats should come with an optional std tranny..
I think the LincTC would also have easier outward visibility. With almost 300 ft lb of torque I can't see it being all that slow merging onto a freeway. I'm sure it would benefit from a 5 or 6 speed tranny tho. Ford still pumping out the 4 speeds just pads their bottom line. When you hear it costs more than Lexus ES350 or Hyundai Gen etc. it does sound over-priced. A 1 or 2 yr old one would be best idea for sure.
On the topic of psi pressure monitoring systems and run flat tires, again, this complexity is over the top. I think that any tech like that that tries to idiot proof the car is distancing drivers more and more from their basic responsibilities of owning and maintaining a car. Cripes, we even have cars that can park themselves. But even that technology does not give an idiot the basic common sense needed to realize that it is glare ice underneath them and their ESC isn't going to create a miraculously shorter distance to stop when they need to. And oil monitors and even idiot light oil pressure lights! Neither one really works in time to bail out a negligent owner. Over on the Equinox forum, they have reports of engines having practically no oil left in them when taken to the dealer for an "engine knocking sound", yet neither the oil light or oil life monitor indicated impending doom. In fact, one of the person's sixth senses is what saved their butt. Their ears!
Gimme a standard tranny, manual A/C, wind up drivers window so it has the ability to open when it's been frozen from a mild spell turned freezing over night and a stereo that doesn't frig think it has any clue what volume I wish to hear it at. If I drive faster and create more road and wind noise, I am so perfectly capable of reaching over and nursing it up a touch.
Rant over..
I've pretty much taken a stance that I shouldn't answer a question that hasn't been asked when it comes to helping friends or family with a car purchase. They've usually decided which vehicle they want and only want to know if they're getting a reasonable deal. At that point, it's not worth telling them not to consider the particular make/model - they don't want to hear it, and who am I to tell them that THEY won't be happy with it.
The exception, of course, is when one of the kids is looking. That's because if they end up buying a repair nightmare or a vehicle with insurance premiums that I know will be too high, guess who they're going to come crying to when they can't afford it? That's just plain old self-preservation there.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
The manufactures know this and that's why they aren't offered.