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Where do they draw the line?
You are right, we are just here for fun and amusement, a difference of opinion isn't the end of the world.
To try to make a long story brief...the Canadian dollar rose from about 65 cents US to being even when we purchase our two 2008 bmws. There was some talk that many companies would match US pricing, since our dollars were worth about the same. Also, a lot of people were buying cars in the US and bringing them into Canada. On a $40,000 car it could mean saving $10000 or more.
So, I asked the salesman if I could put in a clause in the agreement that if BMW would give a discount because of the exchange rate, could I claim that later. He said, BMW would never give a rebate based on exchange rates....it isn't their policy.
The following week they did announce a $3000 rebate. I bought my car about 7 days before we bought my wife's car. But my car came in about 3 weeks later than hers. They weren't going to give us the rebate, we had to fight to get it. They gave it to me for my car because of the delivery date...it qualified in that respect, but her car arrived too early for the rebate.
I am thankful they paid up on the one car at least, but if the salesman let me put that claus in we would have been covered. If he wasn't so certain a rebate would never happen I would feel differently.
I gave him good reviews because it really wasn't his fault. He was an older guy (like me), didn't explain or know how a lot of things worked, and when I went in for servicing about a year ago they said he wasn't there any more, and my account was with a new salesperson.
When I asked the new salesperson about the deal where you pick your car up in Germany I asked him if there were any advantages. He said no, just that you can drive your nice new car around in Europe. What he didn't tell me, and I thought about later, is it takes two months to ship a car from Germany to Europe, so I will lose 2 months of warranty time. In my opinion, he sounded kind of snobby, like it was a bother to do the whole thing...I wasn't too impressed. So, in this case, so far, I have very little loyalty to this dealership.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Let me ask you this...hypothetical question.
Let's say you negotiate on a $30,000 Accord, you reach a price of 28,800.
You say to the salesman, I want to sleep on it and talk it over with my wife...give me 2 or 3 days.
You drive by a lot and they have a special tent sale going on. You find the exact same car, and the salesman says, you can buy the car for $28,300, but you have to sign the contract today, tomorrow it will be $29000.
I am not so sure someone would jump for $500 on a $50000 car, but $30,000 is a little bit of a practical person, and $500 in his pocket would sound pretty good. That's my guess, but, what would you do?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My wife's uncle passed away. He was 92 and pretty healthy until 3 months ago when he fell.
They had lots of old pictures.
By trade, he was a telephone lineman and a lifetime GM guy.
Turns out he and his partner were the inspiration for this illustration
I wish you all the very best for Christmas, or for the Holiday's and we'll catch up soon.
Driver
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well, since I said I'd sleep on it, and the deal not finalized, I would call the first salesman and tell him to match the $28,300 and he's got a deal.
Personally, I don't like running around trying to find a better deal. I go in with a number in mind, if the dealership meets it... sold. If not, then I'll look elsewhere.
Merry Christmas to those who celebrate... and those who don't.
I seriously doubt that Rolex has a back room where watchmakers are hand stamping all the parts.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have managed retail sales locations in a past life and I will say that it is rare for anyone at the store level to have advanced knowledge of any sales or specials. At best I knew what was going to happen 24 hours in advance.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If it were a grand or $1,500 it might be the thing to push me over. But if I have to think over 28.8 I would most likely think over 28.3
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
But you have to realize that it's a two way street. Some buyers have become jaded by the games played by sales people as well. The 13,000 mile "new" car is just one example.
On my last two new cars I had lies told to me and tricks attempted in F&I which I just shrugged off as part of the car buying game. I do have to say that both salesmen played it straight with me. I would have no trouble doing business with them again but I didn't consider them friends nor would I drop my guard if I bought another car. It's nothing personal but buying a car is a business transaction.
I do understand your viewpoint. I deal with customers all the time who would cut my throat with a butter knife if it saved them a nickle. It's hard not to take it personally sometimes.
BTW, part of my previous brillant post which was deleted wished you all a Very Merry Christmas.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
No smart store would let a customer out with numbers to shop.
The only time we brough a deal into the Sales Office was when we had a solid commitment to buy NOW. Without a commitment we had nothing.
May Santa be good to you and may your eggnog be spiked.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And now I'm looking at cars like that for my nephew. I hope you changed the oil.
My post that was deleted was about how I tried to convince him to buy a 1994 Buick Century Wagon that we were attempting to save from the scrap yard.
He wouldn't even consider it. Maybe he's holding out for a BMW. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Back from the girls' Christmas pageant. Downright adorable.
Looked in the mailbox for my Christmas bonus from Richard but it wasn't there. Must be some sort of error - that or I was on the naughty list.
You mean my NEW bff Richard?
On the Wagon, it will be in my barn until spring or until my son's friend either scraps it or fixes it up for himself. $500 takes it.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Every 5k miles like clockwork.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am the same. But, especially in the days when I had to be more careful, I liked the chance to think it over. Also, if the salesman's pitch seems like he could be doing a number on me, I like to think about it.
So, I know this scenario could have happened to me. I think if you got to the second dealer and he said, you have to sign right now to get the car for $28,300 you would say...if you are going to be honest, the first guy gave me a discount of $1200, I am getting a discount of $1700, I am not going to find a better price, and what if the first guy says no, he won't match it, so I better buy it now. At that point I think you would want to see the offer written up, unless you don't mind paying an extra $500, which might be possible....but I don't think most people would want to do it, most people aren't that loyal!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Where does the discount start to pay off for yoou...every one has there price.
Another way to look at it is the 2nd dealer is giving you a about a 30% larger discount and is close to not making a profit. 1.74% extra discount on a $30000 car buys you a 40 inch LCD TV to go with the new car. Buys a month rent at university for your child.
But, you would rather give it to your friendly salesperson. No problem, it's fine with me. I am not saying I would go out and do it...I am saying most people would opt for taking the $500 themselves.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No smart store would let a customer out with numbers to shop.
I have gone home to decide a few times. When I traded in my 2000 Jeep for a 2004 X3 they took $3000 off the X3 and gave me $10000 for the Jeep.
I wasn't desperate so I said I would think about it.
Salesman called about 3 days later and asked if I had made a decision. I said I'll buy it, but I need another $1000 off the new car, and I need an extra $1000 for the Jeep. He said, when can you come in? I said I'll be there tomorrow afternoon. And, no, I did not shop around, I was satisfied at that point that I made a deal I could live with.
If I really did want to think it over at $28800 I would probably buy it, but I would like to think it over. Maybe, I am too tired or just not up to deciding. I wouldn't be doing it at that point because I want to try to get a lower price at another dealer. If the dealer said i had to sign for that price right then and there or lose it I would say I'd rather lose it, and if you don't trust me to come back tomorrow to buy it at that price then we don't trust each other.
The tent sale is totally by accident...I didn't go looking for a lower price. But, if it just happens, then it might be hard for me to throw away $500.
Not saying I would do it or not, just that I think most people would.
As far as honesty and loyalty are concerned, I know several people who download DVDs and don't think twice about it. Isn't that stealing? If people do that without even a bit of guilt, what do you think they would do to save $500!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Sometimes it was on purpose and sometimes they got cold feet.
If they did this I would say, Hey, if you come back, I'll try to do even better for you"
Often, that stipped them from shopping my number.
" Oh...how much better?"
" Hey, I'll try to get it for half price...I really don't care. I'm on your side"
Of course they knew I was kidding but most people would return.
A small correction: Roundel is the BMW Car Club of America magazine. We are on good terms with BMW NA, but we are entirely independent.
That said, you are pretty much on point. I have a 1975 and a 1995 BMW, and if I do buy a new one, it will be a 1 Series with very few options. I don't want a sunroof, power seats, or navigation. Give me horsepower, handling, xenons and decent audio and I'm good to go. The only other new BMW that tempts me is the M3.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
As a matter of fact, I mentioned to my wife that the local Nissan dealer had a sale on some 2010 370Zs and she said, "Don't waste your time; in six months you'll hate it just as much as you hate your Mazdaspeed. Buy the BMW you want and be happy."
Bless her heart.
She's a Keeper!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Merry Christmas!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Hey, sometimes we fight and bicker a bit but all in all I really think you are a great bunch of guys!
Be safe and have a great Christmas!
Allow me to tag along on this and wish all of our poster friends here at Edmunds a very Merry Christmas.
Just wondering, but how many of our friends to the North had to have their lights punched out for them to dedicate a day to Boxing. I would have thought they would have leaned towards Hockey Day. :confuse:
Again, Merry Christmas.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I love you guys, and i thank you for allowing me to be a part of your Edmunds family. God bless you, and keep you safe, healthy, and happy.
Richard
Everything is set. I awaken to bedlam tomorrow. Can't wait!
The sales person who has sold me the most cars (my Acura dealer), he's honest, knows how I like to deal, does me good on price, and his handshake means as much or more than his signature. I will buy from him again, new and used, as long as I still like his products.
Watches.....
www.watchnet.com
www.pmwf.com (Poor man's watch forum)
Off to cruise. Catch you in the new year.
Thanks to all for reading my sometimes "blather"!
If you Google "BMW Europian Delivery" you will see that you can save money doing it that way. According to the guys on the BMW forums, you can save the cost of the trip, at least.
My understanding is that your dealer must have an allotment that they are willing to let you have to do that.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Thank you venture, I will definitely look into it. I heard from someone (not the salesman) that you save a lot on the shipping because you are shipping a "used car" instead of a new car.
I just checked the site briefly and I have a feeling you can save a lot if you are buying in the USA...I believe you are buying directly from the factory that way. I don't think it worksout as well for we Canadians...who get ripped off once again.
I really had the feeling my new sales person wasn't on my side. That is what I am looking for in a salesperson, he isn't just working for the dealer but he is going to do a little extra for me if he has to. Any one can write up an order.
I will say I bought 2 Jeeps from the Jeep salesman and he was on my side, always got a good price, no messing around...we went to the lowest price and I knew he was giving me a good price.
I came to him in just about the same way I made up that story about the tent sale....so I will tell that story later today.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
FYI - What is Boxing Day?
Boxing Day is a bank or public holiday occurring on 26 December that is observed in Australia, Austria, Canada, the United Kingdom, and in some Commonwealth of Nations with a mainly Christian population.
The European tradition has been dated to the Middle Ages, but the exact origin is unknown and there are some claims that it goes back to the late Roman/early Christian era; metal boxes placed outside churches were used to collect special offerings tied to the Feast of Saint Stephen.
Actually, Boxing Day is the Day when all the stores have gigantic sales. When I was a kid I thought it meant the day you throw out all the boxes gifts come in. But I like your idea of Hockey Day...make that the 27th and get another day off work!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
However, you can make that up on medical care...
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The European delivery option can be a real money saver if you would have gone to Europe for a vacation anyway - even if you didn't buy a car that year. Short-term car rentals in Europe are much more expensive than they are in the States.
Also, you get to drive your new Bimmer on the no-speed-limit, superbly maintained autobahn. That'll give you something to remember.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Then why isn’t it called Sales Day? Everybody would understand that, even me. Man, you guys do have a language all your own.
Well, we’ll be heading over to my brothers (about 5 miles away) for our annual Christmas dinner AND to watch Christmas Vacation. It wouldn’t be Christmas for the jmonroe family if we didn’t do that. Even a couple of my grandsons know what is coming next. That’s the fun part of watching it again and again and...
I hope you guys will have as much fun today as I will.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
When I was shopping for the ‘98 Exploder, I went back to the same salesman I bought a Windstall from. The salesman was busy, but he gave me keys for the test drive and took my trade-in for appraisal. He was busy that day, so he called me a week later with an offer; $1000 off the MSRP on the Exploder and $2000 below wholesale book for my trade in. When I mentioned to him NADA trade in value, he told me where NADA headquarters are, and that I should take my trade-in there and see if they would write me a check for it. I thanked for his time, and went somewhere else and did my deal. A week later he called me again asking me when I am coming in to buy the truck. I told him that it is a done deal, and what it was. He was surprised and amazed that I went somewhere else; he also said that my deal was too good to be true, and that I would not have got that from him.
After two Fords, I became loyal Honda customer. My first Honda was purchased from the local store. The second time I brought a lease worksheet for them to match. They refused, and told me that they have better customers than me. For the third Honda, I didn’t even give them a chance, and bought it sixty miles away. In the meantime, I was servicing all my Honda’s at this store. For the last Honda I didn’t want to buy from them either, but my wife insisted that I call them because she didn’t want to waste time. This time they matched the lowest quote, and I didn’t mind because they were loosing money on it ($500 under the invoice minus the trunk money).
If it is fair for a Honda dealer to ask $2000 ADM on Odyssey’s when supplies are low, it is fair for me ask them to take a loss when they are flooded with inventory.
As far as the second chance out of loyalty, that doesn’t make sense to me. I come to you out of loyalty, you don’t agree to my numbers, and then I go somewhere else who agrees to my numbers. Do you really expect me not to buy from them right there and then and come back to you to give you another chance? That doesn’t make sense.
Pretty typical. A former customer comes to me for another car. Test drives cars, has lots of questions and want's to know my "best price".
Maybe they are a Costco Member (who isn't?) so I sit down and bring out the Costco book. I show them the invoice and show them in the book that for that particular car, the Costco price is 500.00 over our invoice.
My "loyal" customer thanks me very much, writes the number down and says they will be getting back to me.
Two days later I call to learn that they shopped my number and saved 200.00 somewhere else. Just walked in and bought a car.
Never gave me a chance to match that number.
That's the way you operate? I understand and THAT is one of the reasons I left the business. I got tired of thing that "didn't make sense"
Merry Christmas!
Family on the way for Christmas dinner and it seems the Grinch has invaded our two year old top of the line Whirpool oven and shut it down.
Error messages on the digital readout etc.
Maybe I'll bring in Chinese takeout?
Bah Humbug!
That's not good, but at least you can be thankful that you have family to share the day with, and they'll certainly forgive plans gone awry, even if it means General Tso's chicken instead of a turkey or roast.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
That's why I like my cars with as little electronics as possible. Nothing worse than paying big money for some fancy gee-gaw and having it poop out when you need it.
Anything I can't fix by hitting it with a hammer doesn't belong on my car or my oven.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Seriously, I go to the local store take a test drive and go home. If I like the car, I research the color, options and the price (by getting online quotes), and call the salesman with my offer. Usually, the salesman is insulted by my offer and angrily rejects it, or counters with $500 to $1000 more. At this point I am done with him and buy from the guy with the lowest quote. Am I supposed to beg the salesman to sell me the car, or pay him $500 more for an hour of his time that he spent on the test drive? It takes me two eight hour days to make $500, why should I give it to the dealership.
Isell, I feel and sympathize with you. You were able to make a decent living by selling cars, and you were displaced by technology, the Internet, just like travel agents, health insurance processing clerks and many other professions. Unfortunately, that is the price some of us have to pay for progress and globalization. You can’t blame selfish customers like me for lack of profits, anymore than a candle maker can blame a light bulb maker. Just be grateful that it happened to you at the twilight of your life when you can retire comfortably and contribute to the society in different ways.
Peace Brother and Merry Christmas!
However, you can make that up on medical care...
I am not so sure. I was talking to a doctor about this and he said, by the time you add in the extra taxes we pay towards our free medical service, you would still have better medical care if you had to pay.
The one nice thing is you won't end up with a huge bill that could really wipe you out. I guess it is about the same as buying insurance, you hope you never need it, but you need it just in case.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I read where one guy bought a $30,000 BMW in the Euro plan and he paid $26000 for the car. So the savings are substantial, and actually really worth doing.
That plan doesn't exist in Canada. The fact is you will have a car to drive around Europe and you won't have a rental fee, but you will lose about 2 months of your warranty as it takes that long to ship the car. I think if they started the warranty from when it gets here, I would be more interested.
Still thinking it over....with all the problems in the world, Germany is fairly safe. 28000 murders in Mexico, flood in California, snow and floods across Europe, earthquake today in Puerto Rico, jelly fish attacking in Australia, shark attacks in Egypt (some of blamed that on Israel), students protesting higher fees in UK, union workers across Europe on strike, freezing weather along the Eastern seaboard US, earthquake in Chile, there's not many places I want to go any more.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
This issue came up a long time ago, and as someone pointed out...don't you gain just as many customers as you lose because of this.
I mean someone has gone to another Honda dealer, gotten a price, and then handed it to you.
I got downsized from a job that I loved. My next job, was awful, it was such a comedown. My father, could come up with just the right phrase at times and he said, "Well, if you loved your job that much, then they wouldn't pay you to do it".
The point is, that spending time with a client only to have them go somewhere else to buy happens all the time. If you weren't tough enough to get through that you wouldn't last long in sales. If all it took was customers coming back year after year to buy a new car just because your a nice guy then any one could do that job. You are fortunate in a way that this occurs because it frustrates a lot of people from being successful at the job.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If your best price was given, there is no reason to return.
I have no problem paying a salesman his 3 or 4 hundred dollar commission.
The problem is paying the dealership 3 or 4 thousand so you can get your $.
I'll give you 5 Franklins if you'll sell to me for true "from the factory" cost.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I was in a entrepeneur program and was getting about $400 a week in unemployment money. Basically my wife was keeping us going...the point being, money was scarce, I had to be careful, every dollar counted.
I said I would think about it, but I was stalling to see if he would come down in price to $300, I wasn't that concerned about the buy out at the time. I called the salesman that evening and said I would come in the next day if he could get the price down to under $300 a month. He said he couldn't do it.
I started looking through the Automobile Club magazine and I saw an ad saying they would quote you the lowest price on any car you want. They encouraged you to get quotes before you call them to be directed to one of their dealers. I filled out the forms and they sent me to another dealer. I wasn't suppose to show him the price I had already got from the 1st dealer.
He calculated the numbers and came up with $298 a month and the buy back was $800 less!
That $20 a month on a 30 month lease is $600 plus a lower buy back. I felt I owed the first salesman an explanation so I called him and told him. He was probably surprised to see the red Jeep I tested being shipped out from his dealership the next day.
At the end of the 30 months they gave me a tremendous lease option of 2 years at $180. I thought I would have to lease another Jeep but the lease was too good to pass up. Then I bought a 2000 Jeep there too....the one where I brought in the ad and he did better than the ad.
Well, I wasn't looking to scam the lowest price off any one. I didn't shop dealer to dealer. The pieces all fell into place and I think (some may differ) I would be an idiot to go back to dealer one because he spent time with me and gave me a test drive...but wanted to charge me $1400 more in 1995 dollars which would probably be like $3000 in today's dollars.
So, what would you have done...I am asking anyone to comment? :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250