I am planning on a stand too for th epending 50" new TV. for one reason, it is in a corner, so I would have to mount the bracket on the side wall, and extend it out. Might look yucky.
we saw a couple of nice stands that have height adjustable brackets attached to the back, so you can get it the perfect height, swivel it easily, and not have to worry about knocking it over! Will probably go with that option, since I need something to hold the components anyway, even if wall mounted.
So I called up the salesman in Greenwich & gave him my credit card for a deposit & he took my credit app info over the phone.
I'm so excited we're getting a new Pilot!
Great story and it sounds like you got a great deal....no use waring yourself out trying to do better than that......and prices might just go up.
Although, I understand, when gas prices go up this much it sucks money out of the economy and people just don't have the money to spend...and car sales are greatly affected. But, I wouldn't let that stop me, fo one day things will get back to normal, and you need the car and that's the one you wanted.
That was a great sales story, and I'm so happy for you. The Pilots are so nice and I know that you and your wife will enjoy it. What color did you get? When do you actually take delivery? Fun, fun!
Congrats on the purchase of your new Pilot. Did you get black? I think that's the color you wanted. So what are you going to do with the Prelude after the World Series (#29) is over?
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Congrats, and thanks for the story. I think you made your purchase just in time. The parts shortages are getting pretty bad in Japan. Toyota is talking a good game but I think by September It will be a dealer's market.
I also read in an Autoweek article that used car prices are skyrocketing. This confirms something I was wondering about here a few weeks ago. I pulled this link out of my delete bin. I hope it still works:
The sub $2K market has been tough for a month. Every car I look at for my nephew either has 200K+ miles or major mechanical problems like bad tranny or blown head gasket.
I think we are in for some hard car-buying times in the next year. I'm glad I don't need anything new for a while.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I also read in an Autoweek article that used car prices are skyrocketing.
Thanks, that was interesting. Not a good time to buy a used car and maybe not even a new one if you don't want to buy at a peak time.
They showed people on the news all trying to cut back on their driving, some are using bikes, some changing to motorcycles, and a lot of businesses are trying to find ways to cut back on mileage. $60 to $80 more a week for gas really cuts into spending on other things.
I find the black interior to be the easiest to keep clean, so we only buy cars w/ black interiors. Now this limited our color choices with Honda to Dark Cherry Pearl (Eggplant), Silver, or Polished Metal Metallic.
We chose polished metal metallic.
Our Acura is black. Very handsome, but shows every little chip/scratch.
Thanks to all for your support & congratulatory messages.
Where's Craig? I want to hear what he has to say.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Well that would depend on the area that town is in. I mentoned the town I used to live in that had way more tickets per officer and it was a town of about 5K people. Of course there are at least 5 million people living within an hour drive of it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"Of course there are at least 5 million people living within an hour drive of it."
We only have 85,000 people in our area. Of course that doubles during the U.S. Open and PGA Tours. We are a rural area. Our economy consists of farmers and the golf industry. Both have suffered since 2007.
Any one see the Google self driving car. It has gone 140,000 miles and it drives itself? That would really take the fun out of driving. Self Driving Car
Tha Greenwich dealer did a very dangerous thing. He put out a number to go shop and that's exactly what happened.
He was very lucky that Younkers store didn't undercut him by a couple of hundred dollars which could have happened.
That Pilot like all Hondas will be a great car. The stores are very short on inventory now and the salespeople are dreading the sumer when demand picks up and there is little inventory.
Of course, the mooches don't know this or don't believe it.
I don't know whether or not the Greenwich dealer would have given me that particular number if I wasn't a referral.
I prefer to do business locally, especially for servicing reasons. Even though the dealership in Yonkers isn't that far from me, I'd rather buy from Greenwich.
The only reason I shopped the number was to see if it was the right number.
The guy in Yonkers could've had one on the lot that was sitting there for 3 months in the color I wanted & sold it to me for invoice or $200 above invoice just to move a unit. I was dealing with the principal owner of the dealership.
So I'm waiting for a call for them to tell me when the trick will be in so I can take delivery.
We'll be a 3 Honda family very soon.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I have read a lot of threads on here about people doing research on the model they are looking for. Then they are comparing prices of what they paid or were quoted.
First let me say that I am a dealer and I am not here to sell anyone anything... I have plenty of customers. ( not that I would not mind another I don't Know if anyone has been following the news or not but there was a major catastrophe in Japan. Many of the Hondas that you are asking about are made there. Others that are not made there have parts that come from there. Almost every airbag sensor for every vehicle that is made.... is made there. Those plants are not going to be up and running for months.... Long story short... There is going to be a major shortage of vehicles in the united states. And I am not just talking about Hondas, This is going to have a ripple effect on all the car industry.
So lets go back to that class on economics that I am sure that many of us are trying to forget right now. For years the car customer has had it pretty good. Supply has been high, there is no shortage of Dealers to choose from, so people have been writing thier own deals and sometimes getting cars for less then invoice. (anyone that says they got a car for 2-3k under invoice on a Pilot or Odyssey is Full of it. There is not a dealer incentive or kickback going to the dealer on those cars and no dealer is going to cut thier own throat, just because you are a nice guy or gal.
Now lets go to the other little part of economics and focus on what happens when supply is down and demand is up... Prices go up! So for those of you who purchased your car when supply was up... congratulations. For those of you who beat around the bush, played games trying to get dealers to cut each others throats, and missed the boat, this is where reality comes into play.
If you are able to negotiate a price with a dealer that is below MSRP.... that is right.... I said MSRP that dirty word... Feel like you are a victor! Dealers have been marking up cars due to the current situation and they have every right to do so. After all.... its a "Manufactures Suggested Retail Price" That means now because of Supply and demand, prices have gone up.
Now I am not writing this to anger anyone, I am sure that some will write me back and bash me for just being honest and saying what dealers have been thinking for years. But let me ask you this. Some of you are bankers, lawyers, CEOs, teachers, Fry cooks... whatever your walk of life or your job title, you get paid to do a Job. Our Job is to welcome you to a dealership, Show you our product, treat you like a valued customer, build value in the car you are looking at, Then be a salesperson and sell the car. Salespeople are on Commision. our comission is made from the invoice to the MSRP. That is how we make our money. We get paid a percentage of that money( a small percentage), which is why most salespeople are not driving the cars we sell. We are not getting rich off of you.
After pointing out what you all new already, let me ask you this. If you went to work and your boss paid you on your performance and after spending 5 hours with him or her and they said. .... "I dont feel like paying you for your services", how would you feel? That is the way we feel when a customer wants to negotiate below invoice. Now I am not saying that everyone needs to come in and just lay down and not negotiate. What I am saying is that, if a salesperson "earned your business".... I.E... They spent the time and showed you the product, went over the features, and acutally sold you the car. Please pay them for their services. Negotiate a "fair" price.
Last but not least, Please heed what I have said here and if you are in the market for a new Honda, get to the dealership and if you are lucky to find the vehicle that you want, in the color you want, with all the features you want, get it now! Good luck to all of you, enjoy your new Honda, and please drive
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
You gave a very fair assessment of the economy and the car purchasing process. Salesmen have the right to make a decent living. Customers have the right to a fair deal. Neither party should take total advantage of the other, though negotiations are an importnat part of the process.
I agree that if a person needs (or desires) a car now, it would probalby be unwise to wait much longer. It could be a year or more before Japan is really up and running again. Also, it is not likely that the economy of any country is going to improve much during the next 3-5 years. If your budget and your needs can sustain a purchase now, it may be best. I'm glad that I purchased our SRX last fall, and I'm glad that our convertible is in good shape as well. I just have to hope that I don't need an important part replacement during the next year or so. If I do, hopefully I will able to find it.
I think that you made a wise decision. You got a good deal, and you will now have a dependable vehicle for the next several years.
Based on that salesman's post my advice would be to avoid buying a car for at least a year. If you really need the car or don't care about the price go ahead, Feel free. But from a normal person's standpoint it makes zero sense to to try to buy. This is a temporary bump in the market and as we have seen time and time again dealers will try to shake out every nickle in such times.
If you can give it a year. The 1.9% deal and everything thing else will be back.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
get to the dealership and if you are lucky to find the vehicle that you want,
Maybe and maybe not. There could be a shortage, but I have heard those stories before too. If you are in the market for a car, buy as soon as you can.
If you have a good car, don't panic, just keep driving it.
And don't panic and try to sell your gas guzzler because the price of gas has gone up...the money you lose will be more than the money you save on gas.
And finally, tell that hot shot salesguy to come over here and give us some sales stories!
This is a temporary bump in the market and as we have seen time and time again dealers will try to shake out every nickle in such times.
That is so true but it is the way the car biz works. Cash for Clunkers turned out to be a windfall for a lot of dealers because they didn’t feel they had to negotiate since a lot of buyers were being given $3500 for scrap iron that could barely limp onto the dealers lot.
Because of this I sometimes think our government knew this was going to happen and threw a bone to the auto industry/dealers, because of poor sales for many months, under the guise of getting gas guzzling/polluting cars off the roads.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I used to leave posts similar to that one only to get slapped down by exactly the kind of customers I hated to deal with.
This poster might as well talk to a wall. Nobody cares and I at least had the sense not to be bothered by that.
It was hard not to take it personal sometimes when I was so nice to people and spent so much time with them only to have them cut my throat for a lousy hundred dollars.
I met some of the nicest, down to earth people and I met others who were SO CHEAP that they literally made me sick. My entire life has been in retail sales and management but NOTHING could have prepared me for the car business.
I do take just a bit of pleasure at the shortages that will only get worse. I feel for the stores and the salespeople but I wish I cuold watch as the cheapskate mooches slowly come to grips with the fact that they are finally going to have to pay some decent prices to get the cars they really want.
I do miss the people I worked with but I DO NOT miss the business.
Nycarguy, you are damm lucky your "customer" didn't show up that day. He probably would have taken you on a drive that would have terrified you and burned out your clutch. Then he would have offered you half what you were asking!
I'm not so sure this time. We're into our 4th year of trouble and things don't look better---regardless of what the emperor and his czars tell us. I realize that we have had ups and downs over the years, especially with gas prices, but this economic environment seems to have a different tone. It has been the worst recessionary period since the Great Depression. I think that it will take longer to recover than in the past. If and when we do recover, things are not likely to ever be the same---in housing, energy, cars, food, clothing, etc. In all fairness, the consumer may actually need some corrective measures. We have lived and enjoyed the fat of the land in recent years. We now feel that we have to have the best of everything---Iphones, 70 inch televisions, cars with every conceivable gadget, designer clothes even for babies, the biggest and most powerful computers, mega mansions, gold and diamond jewelry, etc. This attitude just can't continue forever. The middle class is becoming poorer each day. IMHO, the next generation is going to see all of this come crashing down on their heads, if not before. We may see a return to the land, basic education (reading, writing, and arithmetic), better work ethics, and a moral obligation to family and neighbors. Old fashioned ideas? Perhaps, but they could be a good thing. End of rant.
"...give it a year. The 1.9% deal and everything else will be back..."
You could also look at a Mitsubishi. I clicked on the ad here on Edmunds and they are still offering 0% on a lot of models. Alas, it's only for 36 months.
I think their Outlander is comparable to Honda's Cr-V. Their Endevor is not in the same league with the Pilot but since it's going out of production there are screaming deals. Probably the last you'll see for a long time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
>Based on that salesman's post my advice would be to avoid buying a car for at least a year.
I wonder if the repost from the Honda person arguing the laws of supply and demand uses the same logic to lower the prices just as much when there is good supply? He likes using that logic to raise prices when they can claim lower supply. Or is it like gasoline: when there's good supply we find some other excuse for keeping pricing up. Consequently when there's tight supply the price _has_ to go up rapidly.
I also get concerned when dealers go biblical and start giving parables about how if your boss didn't want to pay you, etc. I'd rather they stick with selling cars.
I really do think there will be a shortage. If you hear it from one dealer the day after the earthquake, it is probably BS. The dust has settled a bit so to speak and I've heard about supply issues from a few different sources.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
During Cash 4 Clunkers (on the last day), I was able to get our TSX for a whole $1000 off MSRP. This car sells for invoice every other day of the week.
1 Honda dealer I visited had every cash 4 clunker eligible car for sale at MSRP. I actually didn't think I'd be able to find the TSX I wanted and went to test drive a loaded EX-L V6 Accord. Again, around here a car that probably sells for invoice or very close to it most days. At MSRP + TAX - Clunker Rebate it was a decent deal. If it was Invoice + Tax - Clunker rebate, that was a screaming deal that might have been too good to pass up.
Moral of the story. I love our TSX & what I paid for it back in August of 2009 is irrelevant.
In fact, even better than the sales story itself is the story of my best friend showing up at my apartment complex with a trailer attached to his wife's Infiniti QX56. We had to tow my clunker to Long Island because the brakes failed. Neither of us had ever towed anything before. Everytime he hit a bump, we'd look back and check to see if the car was still back there.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
but this economic environment seems to have a different tone.
Sure does. They showed on the news last night (Canadian news mind you) that although people are struggler, high priced items are selling better than ever. Sales were up 11% last year and 14% this year on luxury shoes, purses, jewellery etc. Maybe what you said is true in that the wealthy are getting wealthier and the poor are getting poorer.
Then again, maybe we can't be negative, there have been recessions before and we always learn from it and bounce back.
Who knows, but it does amaze me that Americans are usually positive about the future.....and that is usually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, so stay positive. That's my rant.
there are screaming deals. Probably the last you'll see for a long time.
Mitsu is a special case though. They make excellent cars, but they don't sell that well. They still have to discount heavily to move cars unfortunately.
dealers go biblical and start giving parables about how if your boss didn't want to pay you, etc. I'd rather they stick with selling cars.
Excellent points! I still remember many years ago looking for a refridgerator and the salesman showed us one, and it was a good one at a good price. So, I said, we just started looking, but if this one is the best one we see we will be back. And, he said, I hope we will be sold out of them by then.
Maybe he didn't mean it in a bad way...maybe he just meant he hoped he sold a lot of them. It can be taken two ways, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But, I said to myself...I will never be forced into buying something ever again...because a salesman tells me there is going to be a shortage (and for most of my years I was a salesperson).
The dust has settled a bit so to speak and I've heard about supply issues from a few different sources.
Right on! I tend to think there is a bit of a shortage issue going on.......but, these things usually are exaggerated all out of proportion to the facts. I like the saying "Nothing is as ever bad as it seems, and nothing is ever as good as it seems".
There is probably a shortage (or GM would not be ahead of Toyota in sales), but how long will it last and will it really cause people to start bidding to own a new car.......doubtful. But, it sure is an easy "sales tool".
I do miss the people I worked with but I DO NOT miss the business.
I wonder if there is a reason you felt that way. Could it be selling Hondas brings certain people into the showroom who are looking for bargain priced car. I wonder if maybe Acura or Jaguar customers are different, maybe they don't nickel and dime on price. Maybe even Kia customers know what the price of the car is so they don't negotiate over price as much. Maybe it was the dealership you worked for...maybe their prices started too high so people had to try to argue for a lower price.
Maybe all retail is that way...if prices are negotiable. Maybe 90% of the customers are nice and only 10% give you a hard time, but those are the ones you remember.
I don't have answers....just throwing it out there for your thoughts.
One thing about retiring is you will miss that social network you had at work. I have a friend who will be retiring in less than a year, he has worked for the same company for 40 years, and he says he will miss the people and the social interaction he got from work, and it will be a shock for him when that ends.
I have worked in retail for a number of years and I am glad I don't deal with the public every day. But, there is something wrong with the dealership or the system, if selling cars is such a miserable experience...in my opinion.
Laundry room floor going in today, painting tomorrow, and details finished and machines hooked up monday.
between that, all the hardwood, redoing landscape in back around pool, and the pending urchase of the TV, and I have spent the equivilant of an Elantra. Add the gas fireplace, and we are up to a Civic EX or close to it!
I still go back to what my dearly departed Father used to tell me all the time when it came to buying/selling cars...."It's only worth what someone else is willing to pay."
If there's a shortage, I'm thinking that hurts the dealership more than the customer. Taking you're situation for example, if you weren't able to "do a deal" on that Pilot that met to your satisfaction, you would have done one of two things. First, you'd look at something else ($35K+ opens a lot of doors for a lot of other different vehicles). 2nd, you'd keep what you've got for...say...another year....when the market loosens up.
What the buyer has in his/her favor in this country, is that the vast majority of us don't NEED to buy a vehicle. We WANT TO buy a vehicle, but that's a pretty far cry from NEEDING to buy a vehicle.
I love Acura/Honda products, as most of you know. I'm sure that the disruption in Japan is going to cause a blip. However, Honda has a substantial presence in the U.S. Rather than stop production lines, I'd bet they're already making plans to shift some of their parts manufacturing here.
Shortage of stock to sell? Perhaps...at least temporarily. I don't think that shortage will last long, though.
Over the years I've almost viewed Honda as more of an American company than a Japanese company anyway.
As far as the sales person's lament, and with all due respect to Craig, I think I've heard all of those "buy it now" pitches in many different disguises before.
But it now because
-this model is hot -this color is hot -we can't keep these in stock -etc, etc, etc
And now, we can add to this list.... -we don't know when we'll be getting parts and we don't know if they'll produce more.
You got what you wanted. You got a good deal. You're good to go.
I pass by at least one Honda dealer as I drive around every day. We'll see if they're stock of new cars drops appreciably. I know as of last night, the one I passed looked like they had plenty of everything. -
I'm sure you're right. An inventory shortage will hurt the dealerships. And when you think about it, the difference between paying $1000 off MSRP and invoice is what, about $1000. So the dealer makes the extra 3% plus whatever is below invoice. Maybe 7% or so total. On a $30,000 product. Honestly, that kind of margin is not excessive, in my opinion.
If you owned a business, what kind of gross margin would you expect to make on a $30,000 sale? Keeping in mind, all the bills you have to pay out of that gross? Probably why dealers feel the need to sell all the extra add ons. :P
A lot of times, the "buy it now" pitches are real although I tried to refrain from using them.
This was especially true with used cars. I can't tell you how often a customer would land on the "perfect" used car. Then they would leave to "sleep on it" or they wanted to look some more etc. I would gently let them know that I was one of 20 salespeople there and I doubted of the car would last long.
I never said that unless I meant it. Some used cars were one of a kind or "special" in some regard. I honesty KNEW the car would quickly sell.
Then I would hear " If it's meant to be, it's meant to be" and they would leave.
I would actually feel a bit of smug satifaction when they would call the next day..." Well, we want to come and take another look at that car"
" Sorry, someone bought it an hour after you left"
I had to be very careful not to portray an " I told you so" attitude or I wold never see them again.
I even had people get mad at me..." Dammit, you should have pushe me harder to buy it!"
Not a big deal to me on the new side, since (barring unforeseen circumstances) won't be shopping new until 12/2012, but the used price bump can hurt, since I will be looking for something there by the end of the year possibly!
I also get concerned when dealers go biblical and start giving parables about how if your boss didn't want to pay you, etc. I'd rather they stick with selling cars.
The part that gets me is when the salesman feels that he "earned your business" (post 67769) because they spent time with you. Isn’t this part of being a salesman? I don’t endorse a customer wasting a salesman’s time by gathering the minutest pieces of information or wanting to test drive a handful of cars. The salesman has to know how to handle this.
My father was a salesman for most of my growing up years for an upscale kitchen cabinet/kitchen appliances store and he found a way. Today they are called kitchen designers but that’s the marketing side of this field today so that people think they are getting their bucks worth. Anyway, early in those growing up years I heard him talk about the hours he spent with customers, a lot more than what a car salesman spends trying to sell a car and still not get the sale. He would go to peoples custom built houses during construction at least twice, talk to the people, go back to the office or at home laying out a kitchen that was a better layout than what the builder had on the original house plans, then back to the prospective customers house again, only to have his layout “shopped” around to others in that business and not get the sale in the end after all of this work. After a handful of times doing this he didn’t spend so much time with a formal layout. He did a quick sketch without all the dimensions or cabinet sizes being shown. Sure, there were times when he didn’t get the sale but he didn’t waste a lot of time with tire kickers either.
The interesting thing about this is that his sales picked up doing it like this. Often people would say something like, “I like what I see here. It’s a lot better than what I got from ABC Cabinets. Where do I sign?” He would then do a formal layout but he usually had an ace up his sleeve that would satisfy his customers even more. He would tell his customers, “I think I have a better way of doing this. You’ll see what I mean when I get this all laid out with all the dimensions shown. You can still go with what you see now but I want you to see another layout and then decide”. He learned to tease them with a good layout but not the best layout because he didn’t want to waste so much time with people who he didn’t think were serious about buying. Sometimes the new layout would be a little more expensive but most of the time the customers were willing to pay more because they were getting more and it was worth the difference to them. A few dollars more for a kitchen in an upscale house that would be used for a long time would sell itself in the end.
There are usually better ways to go about getting a sale without killing too much time with ‘flakes”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That's just part of the business and a good salesperson can't take these things personal.
It worked the other way too. I sold a lot of cars to people who had spent hours in other stores with other salespeople. They ground out a number, left and shopped that number all over town and ended up with me.
I never had much repsect for these types and they were usually cold, unfriendly people who I knew would never send me referrals or give a damm when I called them to follow up.
That's how these people go through life and that's fine. Nothing is important to them except the almighty dollar.
>The part that gets me is when the salesman feels that he "earned your business" (post 67769) because they spent time with you. Isn’t this part of being a salesman?
I think that was written by a dealer, not necessarily a salesman? Maybe I should reread the original to be sure.
I had a favorite store after shopping the first few times around the dealers. I knew which dealers used the "premium color already in stock" or the things they said to make one feel urgency. My favored dealer put in the time when we ordered to double check all the order possibilities and called back to say that at no extra charge we could upgrade to a different radio in a package if that was what we wanted. He had overlooked it because he sold 4 different car lines and 2 truck lines and didn't have everything down pat like a one brand dealer.
In fact I feel the last time we shopped at two stores and his actually was a couple of hundred higher. But we had been there first and knew we would be well-served in the store after the sale.
The salesman's body language tells the story about how they feel about the customer. Isell probably had a quiet and sincere demeanor when telling the people that car is a model that is likely to roll off the new or used car lot if they wait a day. I can see other salespeople imparting a sense of urgency and required immediacy to try to make the sale for their own good; Isell always seems to have cared about customers.
I recall a Walmart mechanic trying to sell me the serpentine belt replacement on my Buick. I know the specs for wear on the ribs and the cord showing. It was used but I planned to replace it at my leasure in my garage. He told me, "It's ready to BLOW." He was trying to scare this older man into letting him replace it for the hour or more of labor required to take out the spacer in a motor mount to change the belt. It didn't work. I took my new battery and went home. I wonder how many people that tone of voice and scare tactic has worked on.
I may be comparing apples and oranges, but the mark-up on cars isn't nearly as bad as some things. Example: Not long ago, I purchased a $300 navy blue blazer at 75% off plus an additional $25% off the price. I paid $56.25, and they are still making a profit. Having dealt with antique furniture for some years now, I can tell you that the mark-up is ridiculous. I can sell a large gold leaf mirror for $800 any day of the week. My cost: $300-$400. Many people hear the word "antique" and think that they have to pay what the tag says. Surprisingly, few try to negotiate. Some antiques truly are worth big bucks, but you have to know the history to assess the real value. Food is the same way. A large jar of mayonaise normally sells for $5.99. Suddenly, you see a sale price of "2 for $6.00". They're still making a profit. And so it goes.
All of this to say that many cars are probably priced pretty fairly. Dealers aren't making a 75%-100% profit on a car. People always want to negotiate a ridiculous price for a car; yet they will walk into a store and pay full price for a dress, sofa, washing machine, etc. Perhaps it is because cars have a larger price tag than many other goods. Psychologically, people often have strange ideas about product prices. As has been said here many times before, price is determined by what a customer is willing to pay and what he/she thinks that the product is worth.
Comments
we saw a couple of nice stands that have height adjustable brackets attached to the back, so you can get it the perfect height, swivel it easily, and not have to worry about knocking it over! Will probably go with that option, since I need something to hold the components anyway, even if wall mounted.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm so excited we're getting a new Pilot!
Great story and it sounds like you got a great deal....no use waring yourself out trying to do better than that......and prices might just go up.
Although, I understand, when gas prices go up this much it sucks money out of the economy and people just don't have the money to spend...and car sales are greatly affected. But, I wouldn't let that stop me, fo one day things will get back to normal, and you need the car and that's the one you wanted.
Way to go!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
So what are you going to do with the Prelude after the World Series (#29) is over?
Congrats, and thanks for the story. I think you made your purchase just in time. The parts shortages are getting pretty bad in Japan. Toyota is talking a good game but I think by September It will be a dealer's market.
I also read in an Autoweek article that used car prices are skyrocketing. This confirms something I was wondering about here a few weeks ago. I pulled this link out of my delete bin. I hope it still works:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20110509/VIDEO/305099678/1219
The sub $2K market has been tough for a month. Every car I look at for my nephew either has 200K+ miles or major mechanical problems like bad tranny or blown head gasket.
I think we are in for some hard car-buying times in the next year.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Thanks, that was interesting. Not a good time to buy a used car and maybe not even a new one if you don't want to buy at a peak time.
They showed people on the news all trying to cut back on their driving, some are using bikes, some changing to motorcycles, and a lot of businesses are trying to find ways to cut back on mileage. $60 to $80 more a week for gas really cuts into spending on other things.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We chose polished metal metallic.
Our Acura is black. Very handsome, but shows every little chip/scratch.
Thanks to all for your support & congratulatory messages.
Where's Craig? I want to hear what he has to say.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Well that would depend on the area that town is in. I mentoned the town I used to live in that had way more tickets per officer and it was a town of about 5K people. Of course there are at least 5 million people living within an hour drive of it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We only have 85,000 people in our area. Of course that doubles during the U.S. Open and PGA Tours. We are a rural area. Our economy consists of farmers and the golf industry. Both have suffered since 2007.
Richard
Self Driving Car
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Congrats on your wife’s new car. That color should look pretty good when it’s all waxed up.
Where's Craig? I want to hear what he has to say.
Probably got a job selling Kia’s and is too busy to be in here. They’re one of the few car companies that have had pretty good sales lately.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
He grew weary of dishwashers, electric shavers. TV's, etc. I'll see if I can lure him back here.
Richard
Looks like "feel of the road" will be a thing of the past---unless you get it from your rear end. :P
Richard
You're welcome to try but I think he's pretty busy selling those Kia's.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
OK you lured me.
Tha Greenwich dealer did a very dangerous thing. He put out a number to go shop and that's exactly what happened.
He was very lucky that Younkers store didn't undercut him by a couple of hundred dollars which could have happened.
That Pilot like all Hondas will be a great car. The stores are very short on inventory now and the salespeople are dreading the sumer when demand picks up and there is little inventory.
Of course, the mooches don't know this or don't believe it.
Congratualtions!
PS..the inane stories were getting a bit old!
I don't know whether or not the Greenwich dealer would have given me that particular number if I wasn't a referral.
I prefer to do business locally, especially for servicing reasons. Even though the dealership in Yonkers isn't that far from me, I'd rather buy from Greenwich.
The only reason I shopped the number was to see if it was the right number.
The guy in Yonkers could've had one on the lot that was sitting there for 3 months in the color I wanted & sold it to me for invoice or $200 above invoice just to move a unit. I was dealing with the principal owner of the dealership.
So I'm waiting for a call for them to tell me when the trick will be in so I can take delivery.
We'll be a 3 Honda family very soon.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I have read a lot of threads on here about people doing research on the model they are looking for. Then they are comparing prices of what they paid or were quoted.
First let me say that I am a dealer and I am not here to sell anyone anything... I have plenty of customers. ( not that I would not mind another I don't Know if anyone has been following the news or not but there was a major catastrophe in Japan. Many of the Hondas that you are asking about are made there. Others that are not made there have parts that come from there. Almost every airbag sensor for every vehicle that is made.... is made there. Those plants are not going to be up and running for months.... Long story short... There is going to be a major shortage of vehicles in the united states. And I am not just talking about Hondas, This is going to have a ripple effect on all the car industry.
So lets go back to that class on economics that I am sure that many of us are trying to forget right now. For years the car customer has had it pretty good. Supply has been high, there is no shortage of Dealers to choose from, so people have been writing thier own deals and sometimes getting cars for less then invoice. (anyone that says they got a car for 2-3k under invoice on a Pilot or Odyssey is Full of it. There is not a dealer incentive or kickback going to the dealer on those cars and no dealer is going to cut thier own throat, just because you are a nice guy or gal.
Now lets go to the other little part of economics and focus on what happens when supply is down and demand is up... Prices go up! So for those of you who purchased your car when supply was up... congratulations. For those of you who beat around the bush, played games trying to get dealers to cut each others throats, and missed the boat, this is where reality comes into play.
If you are able to negotiate a price with a dealer that is below MSRP.... that is right.... I said MSRP that dirty word... Feel like you are a victor! Dealers have been marking up cars due to the current situation and they have every right to do so. After all.... its a "Manufactures Suggested Retail Price" That means now because of Supply and demand, prices have gone up.
Now I am not writing this to anger anyone, I am sure that some will write me back and bash me for just being honest and saying what dealers have been thinking for years. But let me ask you this. Some of you are bankers, lawyers, CEOs, teachers, Fry cooks... whatever your walk of life or your job title, you get paid to do a Job. Our Job is to welcome you to a dealership, Show you our product, treat you like a valued customer, build value in the car you are looking at, Then be a salesperson and sell the car. Salespeople are on Commision. our comission is made from the invoice to the MSRP. That is how we make our money. We get paid a percentage of that money( a small percentage), which is why most salespeople are not driving the cars we sell. We are not getting rich off of you.
After pointing out what you all new already, let me ask you this. If you went to work and your boss paid you on your performance and after spending 5 hours with him or her and they said. .... "I dont feel like paying you for your services", how would you feel? That is the way we feel when a customer wants to negotiate below invoice. Now I am not saying that everyone needs to come in and just lay down and not negotiate. What I am saying is that, if a salesperson "earned your business".... I.E... They spent the time and showed you the product, went over the features, and acutally sold you the car. Please pay them for their services. Negotiate a "fair" price.
Last but not least, Please heed what I have said here and if you are in the market for a new Honda, get to the dealership and if you are lucky to find the vehicle that you want, in the color you want, with all the features you want, get it now! Good luck to all of you, enjoy your new Honda, and please drive
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Good. Next time I go to a dealer I'm going to "look at" my trade
until you "build value"...then we'll look at what you have to sell.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I agree that if a person needs (or desires) a car now, it would probalby be unwise to wait much longer. It could be a year or more before Japan is really up and running again. Also, it is not likely that the economy of any country is going to improve much during the next 3-5 years. If your budget and your needs can sustain a purchase now, it may be best. I'm glad that I purchased our SRX last fall, and I'm glad that our convertible is in good shape as well. I just have to hope that I don't need an important part replacement during the next year or so. If I do, hopefully I will able to find it.
I think that you made a wise decision. You got a good deal, and you will now have a dependable vehicle for the next several years.
Richard
I've been here for every post for the past six years.
I know you're not a dealer. You're a plumber with a Prelude.
j/k. Glad to hear the Pilot sales story. I like gun metal gray
if it's near that color. I'm thinking the skinniest yellow pinstripes
at the beltline would set it off nicely. If not...just peel them off.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
If you can give it a year. The 1.9% deal and everything thing else will be back.
Maybe and maybe not. There could be a shortage, but I have heard those stories before too. If you are in the market for a car, buy as soon as you can.
If you have a good car, don't panic, just keep driving it.
And don't panic and try to sell your gas guzzler because the price of gas has gone up...the money you lose will be more than the money you save on gas.
And finally, tell that hot shot salesguy to come over here and give us some sales stories!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That is so true but it is the way the car biz works. Cash for Clunkers turned out to be a windfall for a lot of dealers because they didn’t feel they had to negotiate since a lot of buyers were being given $3500 for scrap iron that could barely limp onto the dealers lot.
Because of this I sometimes think our government knew this was going to happen and threw a bone to the auto industry/dealers, because of poor sales for many months, under the guise of getting gas guzzling/polluting cars off the roads.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This poster might as well talk to a wall. Nobody cares and I at least had the sense not to be bothered by that.
It was hard not to take it personal sometimes when I was so nice to people and spent so much time with them only to have them cut my throat for a lousy hundred dollars.
I met some of the nicest, down to earth people and I met others who were SO CHEAP that they literally made me sick. My entire life has been in retail sales and management but NOTHING could have prepared me for the car business.
I do take just a bit of pleasure at the shortages that will only get worse. I feel for the stores and the salespeople but I wish I cuold watch as the cheapskate mooches slowly come to grips with the fact that they are finally going to have to pay some decent prices to get the cars they really want.
I do miss the people I worked with but I DO NOT miss the business.
Nycarguy, you are damm lucky your "customer" didn't show up that day. He probably would have taken you on a drive that would have terrified you and burned out your clutch. Then he would have offered you half what you were asking!
I'm not so sure this time. We're into our 4th year of trouble and things don't look better---regardless of what the emperor and his czars tell us. I realize that we have had ups and downs over the years, especially with gas prices, but this economic environment seems to have a different tone. It has been the worst recessionary period since the Great Depression. I think that it will take longer to recover than in the past. If and when we do recover, things are not likely to ever be the same---in housing, energy, cars, food, clothing, etc. In all fairness, the consumer may actually need some corrective measures. We have lived and enjoyed the fat of the land in recent years. We now feel that we have to have the best of everything---Iphones, 70 inch televisions, cars with every conceivable gadget, designer clothes even for babies, the biggest and most powerful computers, mega mansions, gold and diamond jewelry, etc. This attitude just can't continue forever. The middle class is becoming poorer each day. IMHO, the next generation is going to see all of this come crashing down on their heads, if not before. We may see a return to the land, basic education (reading, writing, and arithmetic), better work ethics, and a moral obligation to family and neighbors. Old fashioned ideas? Perhaps, but they could be a good thing. End of rant.
Richard
Yes, I think your fears are well founded.
You could also look at a Mitsubishi. I clicked on the ad here on Edmunds and they are still offering 0% on a lot of models. Alas, it's only for 36 months.
I think their Outlander is comparable to Honda's Cr-V. Their Endevor is not in the same league with the Pilot but since it's going out of production there are screaming deals. Probably the last you'll see for a long time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I wonder if the repost from the Honda person arguing the laws of supply and demand uses the same logic to lower the prices just as much when there is good supply? He likes using that logic to raise prices when they can claim lower supply. Or is it like gasoline: when there's good supply we find some other excuse for keeping pricing up. Consequently when there's tight supply the price _has_ to go up rapidly.
I also get concerned when dealers go biblical and start giving parables about how if your boss didn't want to pay you, etc. I'd rather they stick with selling cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I never said I wanted to buy one.
PS..the inane stories were getting a bit old!
Well, they were on topic at the time. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
1 Honda dealer I visited had every cash 4 clunker eligible car for sale at MSRP. I actually didn't think I'd be able to find the TSX I wanted and went to test drive a loaded EX-L V6 Accord. Again, around here a car that probably sells for invoice or very close to it most days. At MSRP + TAX - Clunker Rebate it was a decent deal. If it was Invoice + Tax - Clunker rebate, that was a screaming deal that might have been too good to pass up.
Moral of the story. I love our TSX & what I paid for it back in August of 2009 is irrelevant.
In fact, even better than the sales story itself is the story of my best friend showing up at my apartment complex with a trailer attached to his wife's Infiniti QX56. We had to tow my clunker to Long Island because the brakes failed. Neither of us had ever towed anything before. Everytime he hit a bump, we'd look back and check to see if the car was still back there.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Sure does. They showed on the news last night (Canadian news mind you) that although people are struggler, high priced items are selling better than ever. Sales were up 11% last year and 14% this year on luxury shoes, purses, jewellery etc. Maybe what you said is true in that the wealthy are getting wealthier and the poor are getting poorer.
Then again, maybe we can't be negative, there have been recessions before and we always learn from it and bounce back.
Who knows, but it does amaze me that Americans are usually positive about the future.....and that is usually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, so stay positive.
That's my rant.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mitsu is a special case though. They make excellent cars, but they don't sell that well. They still have to discount heavily to move cars unfortunately.
This might be there chance to move some metal.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Excellent points! I still remember many years ago looking for a refridgerator and the salesman showed us one, and it was a good one at a good price. So, I said, we just started looking, but if this one is the best one we see we will be back. And, he said, I hope we will be sold out of them by then.
Maybe he didn't mean it in a bad way...maybe he just meant he hoped he sold a lot of them. It can be taken two ways, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But, I said to myself...I will never be forced into buying something ever again...because a salesman tells me there is going to be a shortage (and for most of my years I was a salesperson).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Right on! I tend to think there is a bit of a shortage issue going on.......but, these things usually are exaggerated all out of proportion to the facts. I like the saying "Nothing is as ever bad as it seems, and nothing is ever as good as it seems".
There is probably a shortage (or GM would not be ahead of Toyota in sales), but how long will it last and will it really cause people to start bidding to own a new car.......doubtful. But, it sure is an easy "sales tool".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I wonder if there is a reason you felt that way. Could it be selling Hondas brings certain people into the showroom who are looking for bargain priced car. I wonder if maybe Acura or Jaguar customers are different, maybe they don't nickel and dime on price. Maybe even Kia customers know what the price of the car is so they don't negotiate over price as much. Maybe it was the dealership you worked for...maybe their prices started too high so people had to try to argue for a lower price.
Maybe all retail is that way...if prices are negotiable. Maybe 90% of the customers are nice and only 10% give you a hard time, but those are the ones you remember.
I don't have answers....just throwing it out there for your thoughts.
One thing about retiring is you will miss that social network you had at work. I have a friend who will be retiring in less than a year, he has worked for the same company for 40 years, and he says he will miss the people and the social interaction he got from work, and it will be a shock for him when that ends.
I have worked in retail for a number of years and I am glad I don't deal with the public every day. But, there is something wrong with the dealership or the system, if selling cars is such a miserable experience...in my opinion.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Laundry room floor going in today, painting tomorrow, and details finished and machines hooked up monday.
between that, all the hardwood, redoing landscape in back around pool, and the pending urchase of the TV, and I have spent the equivilant of an Elantra. Add the gas fireplace, and we are up to a Civic EX or close to it!
a fair swap I think.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Guess we lose isell again!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I still go back to what my dearly departed Father used to tell me all the time when it came to buying/selling cars...."It's only worth what someone else is willing to pay."
If there's a shortage, I'm thinking that hurts the dealership more than the customer. Taking you're situation for example, if you weren't able to "do a deal" on that Pilot that met to your satisfaction, you would have done one of two things. First, you'd look at something else ($35K+ opens a lot of doors for a lot of other different vehicles). 2nd, you'd keep what you've got for...say...another year....when the market loosens up.
What the buyer has in his/her favor in this country, is that the vast majority of us don't NEED to buy a vehicle. We WANT TO buy a vehicle, but that's a pretty far cry from NEEDING to buy a vehicle.
I love Acura/Honda products, as most of you know. I'm sure that the disruption in Japan is going to cause a blip. However, Honda has a substantial presence in the U.S. Rather than stop production lines, I'd bet they're already making plans to shift some of their parts manufacturing here.
Shortage of stock to sell? Perhaps...at least temporarily. I don't think that shortage will last long, though.
Over the years I've almost viewed Honda as more of an American company than a Japanese company anyway.
As far as the sales person's lament, and with all due respect to Craig, I think I've heard all of those "buy it now" pitches in many different disguises before.
But it now because
-this model is hot
-this color is hot
-we can't keep these in stock
-etc, etc, etc
And now, we can add to this list....
-we don't know when we'll be getting parts and we don't know if they'll produce more.
You got what you wanted. You got a good deal. You're good to go.
I pass by at least one Honda dealer as I drive around every day. We'll see if they're stock of new cars drops appreciably. I know as of last night, the one I passed looked like they had plenty of everything.
-
If you owned a business, what kind of gross margin would you expect to make on a $30,000 sale? Keeping in mind, all the bills you have to pay out of that gross? Probably why dealers feel the need to sell all the extra add ons. :P
This was especially true with used cars. I can't tell you how often a customer would land on the "perfect" used car. Then they would leave to "sleep on it" or they wanted to look some more etc. I would gently let them know that I was one of 20 salespeople there and I doubted of the car would last long.
I never said that unless I meant it. Some used cars were one of a kind or "special" in some regard. I honesty KNEW the car would quickly sell.
Then I would hear " If it's meant to be, it's meant to be" and they would leave.
I would actually feel a bit of smug satifaction when they would call the next day..." Well, we want to come and take another look at that car"
" Sorry, someone bought it an hour after you left"
I had to be very careful not to portray an " I told you so" attitude or I wold never see them again.
I even had people get mad at me..." Dammit, you should have pushe me harder to buy it!"
Sorry, not my style.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The part that gets me is when the salesman feels that he "earned your business" (post 67769) because they spent time with you. Isn’t this part of being a salesman? I don’t endorse a customer wasting a salesman’s time by gathering the minutest pieces of information or wanting to test drive a handful of cars. The salesman has to know how to handle this.
My father was a salesman for most of my growing up years for an upscale kitchen cabinet/kitchen appliances store and he found a way. Today they are called kitchen designers but that’s the marketing side of this field today so that people think they are getting their bucks worth. Anyway, early in those growing up years I heard him talk about the hours he spent with customers, a lot more than what a car salesman spends trying to sell a car and still not get the sale. He would go to peoples custom built houses during construction at least twice, talk to the people, go back to the office or at home laying out a kitchen that was a better layout than what the builder had on the original house plans, then back to the prospective customers house again, only to have his layout “shopped” around to others in that business and not get the sale in the end after all of this work. After a handful of times doing this he didn’t spend so much time with a formal layout. He did a quick sketch without all the dimensions or cabinet sizes being shown. Sure, there were times when he didn’t get the sale but he didn’t waste a lot of time with tire kickers either.
The interesting thing about this is that his sales picked up doing it like this. Often people would say something like, “I like what I see here. It’s a lot better than what I got from ABC Cabinets. Where do I sign?” He would then do a formal layout but he usually had an ace up his sleeve that would satisfy his customers even more. He would tell his customers, “I think I have a better way of doing this. You’ll see what I mean when I get this all laid out with all the dimensions shown. You can still go with what you see now but I want you to see another layout and then decide”. He learned to tease them with a good layout but not the best layout because he didn’t want to waste so much time with people who he didn’t think were serious about buying. Sometimes the new layout would be a little more expensive but most of the time the customers were willing to pay more because they were getting more and it was worth the difference to them. A few dollars more for a kitchen in an upscale house that would be used for a long time would sell itself in the end.
There are usually better ways to go about getting a sale without killing too much time with ‘flakes”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
It worked the other way too. I sold a lot of cars to people who had spent hours in other stores with other salespeople. They ground out a number, left and shopped that number all over town and ended up with me.
I never had much repsect for these types and they were usually cold, unfriendly people who I knew would never send me referrals or give a damm when I called them to follow up.
That's how these people go through life and that's fine. Nothing is important to them except the almighty dollar.
I think that was written by a dealer, not necessarily a salesman? Maybe I should reread the original to be sure.
I had a favorite store after shopping the first few times around the dealers. I knew which dealers used the "premium color already in stock" or the things they said to make one feel urgency. My favored dealer put in the time when we ordered to double check all the order possibilities and called back to say that at no extra charge we could upgrade to a different radio in a package if that was what we wanted. He had overlooked it because he sold 4 different car lines and 2 truck lines and didn't have everything down pat like a one brand dealer.
In fact I feel the last time we shopped at two stores and his actually was a couple of hundred higher. But we had been there first and knew we would be well-served in the store after the sale.
The salesman's body language tells the story about how they feel about the customer. Isell probably had a quiet and sincere demeanor when telling the people that car is a model that is likely to roll off the new or used car lot if they wait a day. I can see other salespeople imparting a sense of urgency and required immediacy to try to make the sale for their own good; Isell always seems to have cared about customers.
I recall a Walmart mechanic trying to sell me the serpentine belt replacement on my Buick. I know the specs for wear on the ribs and the cord showing. It was used but I planned to replace it at my leasure in my garage. He told me, "It's ready to BLOW." He was trying to scare this older man into letting him replace it for the hour or more of labor required to take out the spacer in a motor mount to change the belt. It didn't work. I took my new battery and went home. I wonder how many people that tone of voice and scare tactic has worked on.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
All of this to say that many cars are probably priced pretty fairly. Dealers aren't making a 75%-100% profit on a car. People always want to negotiate a ridiculous price for a car; yet they will walk into a store and pay full price for a dress, sofa, washing machine, etc. Perhaps it is because cars have a larger price tag than many other goods. Psychologically, people often have strange ideas about product prices. As has been said here many times before, price is determined by what a customer is willing to pay and what he/she thinks that the product is worth.
Richard
I know that's supposed to be a generic, made-up name but it cracked me up because when we built a house in 1989, ABC Cabinets did the cabinets.