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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Wise decision! Another good reason for having it done now is that if somehow you did go past the point of the pads...and you start needing rotors etc., that does get expensive. This is definitely the way to go.
That DTS sounds interesting. Maybe you should ask your wife, "Do you prefer I get a new truck or should I get the 2011 DTS?" That's the old selling trick.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Free FOB means you can now spring for Valet Parking at the clinic.
Fob may be free; programming computer to accept fob may have a charge.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Richard
Richard
Keep the rubber side down, and my next report will...hopefully, be from Florida!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I visited the brake pad issue again. The service manager said that I had another 5 or 6k miles remaining before I need to replace them. That would put replacement at around 39k miles.
Richard
Good. That store knows which side of the toast is buttered.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is why I don’t opt for the upgrade wax system when going through the automated car wash in the Winter. Wax has its place on a car but not on the windshield. Even Rain-X causes problems.
I’ve found that Rain-X seems to work initially (not very long at all) then when it starts to wear off and you turn on your wipers, you start to see smears and the Rain-X is kaput thereafter. I tried Rain-X a couple times years ago because I heard people raving about it but I never liked it myself.
As I mentioned before, I have put Rain-X on the glass shower doors and its worked pretty well for me there because the water hitting the shower doors isn’t anywhere near the force that a windshield sees when it is being pelted by rain drops as you go 60 MPH down the interstate.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard
So no girls allowed in the Caddy dealership. Don't those guys know that girls can be fun??
Their attitude is quite a switch from your 'welcome to the big time' experience for your first oil change.
I hope you didn't do what I did with my first Craigslist ad. I deleated the e-mail CL sends you to post with so the ad was still there but I had no way of removing it from CL.
For weeks my wife got angry calls while I was at work saying I should remove my ad if the item was sold. It finally expired after 45 days. Thank goodness. :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Our Cadillacs don't do well with brake life. We test drove a very low milage, (like 15,000 miles), off lease Deville (might have been a Seville). Stopping from 65mph, this car would almost vibrate out of its lane, from warped rotors.
The current Deville, off 3 year lease bought at about 36,000 miles, I asked to see any Cadillac service records they could print out. The selling dealer did several 'reconditioning' things to it before putting out for sale - including new rotors and pads in front and new pads in back. It's now got about 58,000 miles and the brakes seem to be ok.
I'm pretty close with my money. I would keep driving with those brakes, unless there is warped rotor vibration while stopping. As someone else said, there should be a wear indicator which will make a squeal when the brakes are applied when the pads are worn out.
I bet that when your Cadillac dealer does do a brake job, he's going to push to replace all the rotors. You won't get by with just putting new pads on.
I think I told this tale about rotors on my ’95 Bonneville beast awhile back but since were on the subject and a little slow again I’ll tell it again.
We have annual state inspection in PA and I usually do a check of the brakes, lights and other things before I take the car in so that I won’t have any surprises. Sometime around maybe 2004 I did my typical pre-inspection and everything was OK. I take the car down to the garage, drop it off and Mrs. j takes me back home and goes on her way to do something. Probably a mall thing. Anyway, I get a call in a couple hours and the guy says, “everything is OK other than you need rotors on the front. They’re below the minimum thickness (this car had rear drum brakes and they were OK). I said, “WHAT, they’ve never been turned. How can that be”? He said that on these cars they just wear out at about 50K miles. He knows that I do my own brake work so he told me to just put them on, bring it back in and he’d slap a sticker on it after he checked them which would only take a couple minutes.
OK, I pick up the car, go the auto parts and when I ask the guy at the counter what kind of mileage I could expect to get out of the replacements he says, “about the same as you got out of the OEMs. You’ll get around 50K miles and by then they’ll have just worn out on their own”. :surprise: He ventured a guess that it was probably a cost savings for GM to make the rotors thinner and also a weight savings to get the MPG up. If he’s right about either of those guesses that’s pretty pathetic.
I still owe you guys the conclusion to the tale about Mrs. j’s XG 350 engine that threw a rod but it’s not finalized yet but I know I’m going to lose the battle. They denied my claim because they didn’t like how I did my oil change log sheet although they agreed that the engine was very clean. I’m now in the process of appealing but like I said I know I’ll lose but I had to let Hyundai corporate customer service know how I feel. There is NO WAY I’m going to pay 4 grand to dump an engine into it since it’s only worth $6K tops with a good engine. :mad: :mad:
You’re probably going to get a sales tale from me within a week. Me, Mrs, j and of course Son #1 are going to the lots tomorrow. Fun, huh !! :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Try to look on the bright side. You love cars, and since you have to purchase a new one, try to enjoy the experience. You now have the opportunity to look at numerous models and designs to find something that you and Mrs. J like. Happy hunting.
Richard
J, I would fight this to utmost level. This is a total crock of S***. Any engine failure today under 100K is a disgrace, and if Hyundai doesn't step up and fix your car I would swear off the brand. I would certainly sneak in to any letters/discussions etc that you dropped 42K on a loaded Genny V8.
I think that if I was in your case, I probably would have been thrown out of the dealer, because there would have been no way I would have been able to keep my cool.
I am going to assume that you don't have the receipts for the oil and filters you purchased? Do you always use a credit card to buy stuff, possibly you could get all your past statements and show periodic purchases at the auto parts store?
Hoping for the best for you.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Richard
Definitely!!
"...I probably would have been thrown out of the dealer..."
Same here! With his mileage, Hyundai should be ashamed for not replacing the engine. I would make sure that the world knew about it---quarter page ad in the state's largest newspaper, letters to Motor Trend and other car magazines, car related web sites, letters to the list of major stock holders, etc. When I got through with them, they would be begging me to accept a new car for free.
Richard
Add me to those that are very surprised at Hyundai. It's very lame that they said the engine is clean, but they didn't like the log of your sheet. Did they at least compliment your wax job?
I'd tell corporate that you've had 3 Hyundais (at least!) I would also involve a tv station. Hyundai is on the upswing and they probably won't want the negative publicity.
I hope they do right by you or your Genny will be your last Hyundai.
Oh, I'm totally furious at Hyundai over this. Not only is it unethical, but it's also illegal. Please, please contact every media outlet you can and scream about how Hyundai is hosing you. The Magnuson Moss act prevents them from denying warranty because the vehicle wasn't serviced at the dealership:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
Richard--
You need to pass on the DTS. Cadillac is coming out with a 2013 replacement for it and the STS called the XTS and they are pushing for a much younger demographic. The reviewer called the DTS "Grandfatherly", suggesting a stuffiness that doesn't fit with your bon vivant lifestyle (plus you don't even have kids so how can you be "grandfatherly"). Besides, grandfatherly creates an image one foot in the coffin--better a full size truck which only suggests...well, you know.
Gogiboy
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Unfortunately, a log can be forged. Cash register receipts not so much.
I agree with all of that. The reason I appealed this is because I have been a 3 time Hyundai customer. The ’05 XG 350 (the one with the blown engine), an ’06 Sonata that was the one that was traded in for the ’09 Genny. Another reason is because I thought that an “almost immaculate engine” (words from someone at the dealership) should have trumped a “discrepancy” like I will note a little later in this post.
I think that if I was in your case, I probably would have been thrown out of the dealer, because there would have been no way I would have been able to keep my cool.
I agree again. If I was in my 20s through 40s I’d be waiting to hear from the judge when I could expect my parole hearing.
I am going to assume that you don't have the receipts for the oil and filters you purchased? Do you always use a credit card to buy stuff, possibly you could get all your past statements and show periodic purchases at the auto parts store?
I told them up front that I didn’t have the receipts for the oil or the filters but they said just show us what you have. This was when they admitted that nothing hit the engine and that the engine just blew itself up. Then they said they had to pull the valve covers because that is what the local Hyundai Service Rep was going to have them do (routine company procedure with this type of warranty claim) so that they could report what they saw. However the next day the rep was due in for a routine visit and even though they called and told him the engine was clean he could see for himself what they saw when he got there.
The “discrepancy” was that they did warranty work because of an air bag light in March 2010 and they noted the mileage at that time. The very next month I did an oil change and my log showed the mileage was LESS. I can’t believe I did this but that’s what the papers show (theirs and mine). I got to thinking about this and I think they are the ones that wrote the mileage down incorrectly but I could never prove this.
The funny part of this is that I mentioned that they put 5W20 oil in my car, which was the last oil change done, less than a month ago, but the specs for my car call for 10W30 . They said, “no we didn’t we used 10W30”. I said, “lets go out to the car (it’s now out in the lot) and I’ll show you the windshield sticker that says 5W20”. He said, “I don’t have to do that, all I have to do is put the engine code into this sticker printing machine and I’ll show you what it says. It’s programmed to note the proper oil that is to be used”.
Now for the fun:
The gizmo says my car takes 5W20 oil NOT 10W30. Just the the windshield sticker in my car. He immediately says, “oh, but the tech KNOWS the correct oil to use and he would have used 10W30”. :confuse: I said, “I’m not convinced of that but maybe the wrong oil might not have done the damage with only about 500 miles on the engine since the oil change. But hey, couldn’t the same shmo that programmed that gizmo, or someone just like him, be the one that logged the wrong mileage in your computer when you did the warranty work in March of 2010? He said, “we don’t make mistakes like that. Our reputation is on the line so we don’t do that”. I said, “let me get this right. If by chance I write the wrong mileage on my log I’m at fault but when your machine prints out incorrect information that’s OK because you guys know what you’re doing but I don’t. Yet you just showed me proof that someone here knows how to make mistakes”. Man did he get torqued when I said that.
He then calmed down and said, “I’m on your side. The rep is the one that denied you’re claim not me. Call this number (he gives me the number for Hyundai customer service) and place your protest and be sure to tell them you’re a 3 time Hyundai customer and you own 2 now. Someone will get back to me and we can take it from there”.
I’m not holding my breath. Like I said before, I’m going to the lots tomorrow.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I totally agree with that but the engine provides all the proof that should be needed (15 oil changes in a little over 41K miles in not quite 7 years).
To play devil’s advocate here, you could buy the oil and filters get the receipt then return them. I buy almost everything with a credit card and the auto parts store I deal with lets me keep the original receipt and gives me a credit receipt for my records. I just have to sign a store copy receipt, that they keep, showing that I received a refund.
If you’re looking for a reason to deny a claim, if you look hard enough, you’ll find one. They didn’t have to resort to that in my case because of the “mileage discrepancy” I posted about.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
As I wrote earlier, we did go with a flat fee service. Which I would highly recommend. For $300 I had my house listed on MLS, home comp, photos, sign and advice whenever I asked. The buyer did have an agent, which takes 3%, But, I did save 3% by taking the route I took.
It was a classic hard fought negotiation though. You guys would have been proud to see the old Jip in action. The buyer countered 4 times, I countered 3 times. Most friends and family members telling me to take the money after the second counter, due to the poor economy. But, they don't know my secret identity, as author of the "Jipst Method" series of books.
Initially buyers agent mentioned clients concern over house being priced too high. I stated we were willing to negotiate. I expected a bit of a low ball offer, which I got. I countered at a reasonable number. Buyer countered with a minimal bump up. I told agent buyer was getting a lot of of house for the money, that we thought out next counter is a extremely fair offer. Planting the seed that we may not go lower. Buyer did come up substantially more on her next counter, then accepted our counter to that.
We still have to go thru a home inspection. So hoping for no surprises and a quick closing.
It applies to cars and cheap Rite Aid watches :P
Hopefully Hyundai will step up, although I think it was due to the dealer.
Son's Deville just got new front pads and rotors, about $450. Pretty pricey and they gave little warning that they were shot. I though GMs of that era had a squeal device that warned you when the pads were low. Nope. Rotors were all scarred up and needed replacing too.
You would think with all the warning lights they have on cars they would be able to tell you EXACTLY when you needed pads before you needed rotors too.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Hondas have been tough on brake pads in my experience. I know others have said as much but Craig would disagree with me.
My current fleet is now three Toyotas and the old Accord. That's a change for me.
Just had the 04 Escape in for service today @ 95k.
After replacing the front brakes/rotors around 50k, they are still in the green, as are the original rear brakes.
It did need front sway bar links, but the suspension is quiet now.
Thanks for that link. I heard about that act years ago but never read the Wikipedia synopsis.
Negligence in oil changes would result in coagulation and buildup in the heads, which is not the situation here.
That is exactly why I thought I would have no problem when they looked at that engine. I rather welcomed it because I knew the engine was clean.
Here is where I am now:
I made my appeal yesterday around 10 AM Pittsburgh time. FWIW ‘ty’ the Hyundai corporate customer service center is in Salt Lake City. The woman I talked to couldn’t have been nicer. She said several times during the conversation that Hyundai is very sorry for my inconvenience and thanked me for my loyalty to Hyundai with my 3 purchases. She was going to put this appeal into their system and that someone would look at it for merit and I would get a call within 4 hours as to whether Hyundai felt my claim should be re-visited. Sure enough someone called my home within 4 hours (I was impressed) and said this was going back to the dealer for review again. I did not hear from the dealer yesterday so on my way home today I stopped in and asked if they got a call from the customer service center. The service manager said he did get a call yesterday but he didn’t have time to call back. He called when I was there and came back and said he was placed on hold for about 15 minutes so he gave up. This was around 5:45 PM and he “promised” me he would get in contact with them first thing Monday.
I just can’t drop this thing about me being told that the engine is clean so I ask him again, “is the engine clean or not”? He said, “Mr. jmonroe the engine is very clean. In fact, the whole car is clean and our used car manager would love to have that car on his lot if it was taken in on trade”. I said, “shouldn’t that be all the proof that is needed to settle this”? He said he had to protect the interest of the dealership if Hyundai were to ask for the engine back for analysis and the supporting paper that was used to justify why they put a new engine in the car and they saw the same discrepancy that he found. That sounds like a lot of weasel words to me and because of that I don’t hold out much hope of a reversal of the denied claim.
TO BE CONTINUED
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
They could but we couldn't afford the sensing system. The metal squealers that they have been putting on the pads have worked for years, IF, someone doesn't mess them up when installing the pads. Another reason why I don't let someone other than me touch my brakes.
Hondas have been tough on brake pads in my experience. I know others have said as much but Craig would disagree with me.
That doesn't surprise me because Honda's are bullet proof for the most part to hear 'isell' tell it.
My current fleet is now three Toyotas and the old Accord. That's a change for me.
Is this the first time 'isell' has heard this? It's guys like you who drove him into retirement :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
On other cars, I used a local quick change place (family owned for a long time) with good luck. But on cars under warranty (the 2 hondas) I take them to the dealer. About the same price, and not a very long wait. Plus I get the multi point inspection! And of course, get to look around the lot...
But, the real reason (especially on the Odyssey) is so that they have all the records in case something goes wrong, so they will be the only ones to blame! hedging my bets in case I need a courtesy non-warranty coverage.
Also, Hondas (from what I hear) are particular about certain fluids (coolant, trans). So at least I know they are topping up with the right stuff.
the mistake? I had the accord in for some minor thing (maybe a TSB) that I would not pay for, but the car was still under the 36K mileage. They finish, and service writer says the "graciously" gave me a comp fix since I was not too far out of warranty. That is when I had to point out they made a typo entering the miles in their computer. So yes, it does happen.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
BMW's have had an electric pad wear sensor on their cars since the 1980s; it works pretty well in my experience.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mine too. As I mentioned here before - I had my BMW in for state inspection and they said the pads & rotors needed changed. I asked if I could bring it back the next week to have it done. They said OK, but to not wait too long so I made an appointment for the next week.
Sure enough, about 3 or 4 days later the light came on that said I need brake work.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
I should have said that there are a few up-scale cars that have the sensors. I was talking about the average owners appliance on wheels. If they start appearing on them, and the resulting price increase, there is going to be a lot of crying by those owners that we are living in a "nanny" country.
Hey judge, do you have any suggestions for me on a legal position that I may have about my problem with the oil change documentation "discrepancy".
Thanks,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
What was the "discrepancy"? If they were unable to give you anything specific I would think they are trying to blow you off.
whether you did routine oil changes. They're stuck on Hyundais don't break
like that. They need to go deeper into the engine and see if it was a wrist pin or
the connecting rod itself that broke. Once they find the actual failed part,
assigning repair money should be easy. That's why they're stuck on oil changes.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
All I'll say is that I wouldn't want to be defending Hyundai's conduct in front of a jury; you've got an engine that the dealer techs admit was impeccably maintained and you've got a mega-corporation clutching at rather flimsy straws to avoid taking responsibility. I wish I could take private cases, I'd handle cases like that for free- just for fun.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Now, now. This is part of your problem with the current situation. When your cars are under warranty, it's probably a better idea to get service from the dealer. I realize that you know a great deal about car engines and car parts, but you need to protect yourself just in case.
In your latest post, you mentioned that the servcie manager had not had time to return the call from Utah. If you had not stopped by there, just when was he going to return the call? I would think that your situation would hold a top priority with the dealer. If not, this says worlds about your customer status with the dealer. Also, he mentions protecting the dealership. Just who in that department is going to protect the customer? Answer: NO ONE! Another point that chaps my [non-permissible content removed] was the comment that YOU would have to call the center in Utah. Why YOU? You aren't the one who caused this problem. This entire situation smells badly. I think that perhaps it is time for you to have a conference with the owner of the dealership and the regional representative. After all, their reputation is on the line. I think that you have been treated badly. Don't take this on the chin. Also, document each conversation that you are having with the local technician---dates, times, exact key words, etc.---as well as with the people in Utah. You've kept a log; now it's time to keep a diary. Keep us posted.
Richard
There was never a single doubt in my mind that you couldn't do it. Knowing your methods, and having used your books as guides, I knew full well that you could pull this off in grand style. Congratulations.
Of our 14 houses, I actually sold one myself. I advertised it, showed it, negotiated it, qualified the buyer, and had my attorney handle the paperwork. It was really pretty simple. As for the minor repairs after inspection, I even negotiated those. I agreed to split the cost down the middle. The buyer accepted. Unknown to the buyer, I would have paid for all of them. I just wanted to see how far I could go; it worked. I always enjoy the period of the counter offers. It's like a battle of the wills. Good luck on your inspections and closing.
Richard
I know. It's made of green paper and comes in nice little bundles---soooo soothing to the touch.
Richard
Sorry to hear that JM . I hope you get some action from them when you go back. I think the fact the oil looked clean should trump the fact you could have written the date incorrectly. I have been told many times "Our system never makes a mistake", and those are the companies that are so arrogant they can't admit they made a mistake.
If you don't get service from them the good thing is, even at $6000 trade in you have probably got many good miles of driving at a reasonable cost. But, I was pretty sure they would come up with a way to try so they wouldn't be at fault, most companies do that these days.
Sounds like you have a chance now though, so I hope they do come through. I agree with Richard though, the dealer hasn't done a whole lot for you. You would think they would be on the phone trying to keep one of their best customers, not to mention spokesperson, happy.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Congratulations...hope it all goes through. I was a naysayer but I think technically you did sell through an agent.....this wasn't a sale by owner.
People use fee based realtors all the time, which is fine, but I don't think your house would have sold by now if you had truly done it on your own, no matter what your negotiating skills are , even using the Jipst Method. I am glad it sold though.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250