Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

Unfortunately, a log can be forged. Cash register receipts not so much.
It applies to cars and cheap Rite Aid watches

LOL I forgot about our friend Andre. If he had that oil problem he would have banned all of his friends and relatives from buying another Hyundai.

driver100

Just to let you know we took posession of our Florida home on Friday. It has been busy. You don't realize how many things you need, even though we bought it furnished. We love it here, it feels like you are continually on vacation.

Flight was good, small airport in Niagara Falls NY to Lakeland Florida, except lots of kids on the plane going to Disney World.

We upgraded at Hertz for $20 a day extra a Volvo S80. I am not too impressed. It is comfortable, solid, fairly quick acceleration and lots of passenger and trunk room on the positive side. The negatives are, steering is vague and torquey, high hood line and can't see front fenders, interior is very Spartan. I preferred the Fusion to the Volvo.

Temperature when we left home was 40, today it is 82. So far things are going great.

oldfarmer50

What jmonroe's dealer may be thinking is that if he changed his own all and screwed it up that could lead to failure on an otherwise clean engine.

I changed my oil on the old Chrysler every 3000 miles either by myself or in the shop so I'd guess my motor was squeaky clean. One time I was in a hurry and didn't notice the old gasket had stuck and I double-gasketed the thing. A few hundred miles later my son drove it without oil and bingo, blown motor.

Your dealer might be afraid he did the same thing hence the problem. Now I know that Mr. monroe would never make a mistake let alone drive around with the oil light on but the dealer doesn't know him like we do.

sterlingdog

With his outrage over a cheap pair of $7 sunglasses, can you imagine what he would have done if it had been his car?! "Murder She Wrote"? :surprise:

Richard

sterlingdog

"...if he changed his own all..."

I love that Southern touch for "oil". :P That's exactly how we do it.

Richard

sterlingdog

Well, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....

Richard

stickguy

I think they have less of a leg to stand on since the dealer (IIRC) did the last oil change.

[Deleted User]

Congrats Driver! That's great news and I hope the trip is fantastic for you both.

robr2

To play devil’s advocate here, you could buy the oil and filters get the receipt then return them. I buy almost everything with a credit card and the auto parts store I deal with lets me keep the original receipt and gives me a credit receipt for my records. I just have to sign a store copy receipt, that they keep, showing that I received a refund.

True but that's a whole lot of work to go through just to have proof of never having done oil changes.

Others have noted at having service work done at the dealer during the warranty period. I personally continue to visit the dealer for after warranty work. I also try very hard to develop a relationship with the service writer and make sure they get the highest grades possible in surveys (I bring issues up to the service manager). Heck, I even wrote the owner of my Honda dealership a letter praising the service team - they thanked me next time I came in. By doing all this, I ensure that I get every discount possible even without a coupon, little things fixed for free and the dealer goes to bat for me with the manufacturer when something big goes out of warranty. I probably pay 10% more for the service but when an AC compressor is repalced gratis or in my Dad's case, a $1500 repair cut to $300, it is worth it.

jipster

Thanks richard. It really was quite "fun" building value in a product, marketing it, negotiatiing and then selling. I can see why many people are drawn to sales. It felt pretty good holding onto my price, when everone else was saying, "sell". I give the buyers credit as well. They put up a good fight... and were one tough nut to crack.

jipster

Thanks driver. I'll give an assist to the buyers agent. But "technically" I still think it is sold by owner, as I did not have a realator.

Being sucessful with selling by owner takes a bit of luck. Almost had it sold by owner within the first two weeks. Buyer backed out. If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably go to a flat fee service about a month sooner.

snakeweasel

All I'll say is that I wouldn't want to be defending Hyundai's conduct in front of a jury

Looking at this I have to ask is this an issue with Hyundai or with the dealer?

This could be an issue of the dealership trying to keep their warranty work down.

oldfarmer50

"...I love that Southern touch..."

Well I did just come back from Florida. Ya'll

stickguy

This is a corporate issue. The dealer only does warranty work authorized by Hyundai (when there is any issue of coverage).

driver100

That's great news and I hope the trip is fantastic for you both.

Thanks Ty. We are here until Friday and it looks like no rain forcast before then. Temperature is around 80 every day. It doesn't get much better than this.

I know things are difficult but all the major restaurants around here were packed on Friday night.....nice to see. You wouldn't know there was a recession going on if you didn't hear about it every 5 minutes on the radio or TV.

The fellow who drives us to the airport has a 2008 Ford Fusion with 150,000 miles on it , no problems, and a 4 cylinder. He said he paid $1500 for the extended warranty when the regular one expires. He said, when the 3 years was up he had more miles than the extended warranty would allow. He was over the extended warranty before the 3 years warranty was up....a total waste of $1500. I guess that is another case for not taking extended warranties.

driver100

I'll give an assist to the buyers agent

Fair enough!

Jip, do you pay the selling agent the 3% commission or whatever you agree to?

Also, who looks after all the paperwork? We had to sign about 100 forms, things you agree to and don't. Also, forms for the government and banks. Then there is the partial or pro-rated payments for taxes, the proof of insurance, etc., I honestly don't think a layperson could possibly do this on their own. Does the selling agent do up the paperwork and do you have a lawyer check it over?

How did you do the paperwork and who files it etc.? We could never have bought the house in Florida without an agent working to negotiate pricing, but more important to see that all the paperwork was done correctly.

roadburner

I picked up my brand new 1995 318ti Club Sport- and it's still going strong, shown here parked between an ancestor and a descendant:



The best automotive decision I ever made...

sterlingdog

When I sold our house on my own in 2002, I used my own personal attorney who represented both buyer and seller. He took care of ALL of the paperwork---bank, government, taxes, insurance, etc. Many people do this, and it isn't as difficult as it sounds. The only disadvantage to me was not having the MLS available via a real estate agency. I used a sign in the yard, word of mouth, and a local newspaper ad. Times were better then; I wouldn't do it now. I did save thousands on an agent's commission. The attorney was around $300 IIRC.

Richard

sterlingdog

Beautiful cars! What year is the ancestor?

Richard

fezo

How many miles have you got on that thing now? Such a great car. I continue to be jealous.

jmonroe

All I'll say is that I wouldn't want to be defending Hyundai's conduct in front of a jury; you've got an engine that the dealer techs admit was impeccably maintained and you've got a mega-corporation clutching at rather flimsy straws to avoid taking responsibility. I wish I could take private cases, I'd handle cases like that for free- just for fun.

I like that free part; maybe you could take cases in PA without having a conflict of interest. :shades: While here you could then go to the track that Son # 1 goes to and see how good he really is. When it comes to this stuff he can exaggerate with the best of them so I’d like an instructor’s opinion of his skills.

I was at the lots all day yesterday and I’ll post later about that.

jmonroe

jmonroe

Now, now. This is part of your problem with the current situation. When your cars are under warranty, it's probably a better idea to get service from the dealer. I realize that you know a great deal about car engines and car parts, but you need to protect yourself just in case.

I always thought there could be a problem with my doing normal maintenance type work but I also thought that I could prove that I did it right given that I was talking to reasonable people. Wrong again, I guess. I wouldn’t say I know a “great deal” about cars but it doesn’t take much knowledge at all to do oil changes. Isn’t that work usually reserved for the guys at the dealership that are just starting out or the ones that couldn’t advance past that skill level? See posts 1191 and 1210 over in the Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer forum for why I do even the simple stuff like oil changes myself.

With the advent of all the sophistication on cars today most of the shade trees have been chopped down so guys like me have been relegated to doing less and less of our own maintenance so we have to look for things that we can do and oil changes are still one of them.

This entire situation smells badly. I think that perhaps it is time for you to have a conference with the owner of the dealership and the regional representative.

I’m about to have a talk with the SM and if that does not work maybe I’ll try the owner. As for a CONFERENCE with a regional rep that is out of the question. They are in the stratosphere of the car gods so I know that is out. I couldn’t even get his phone number when my claim was first denied because to use the words of the service manager, “I can’t give out his cell phone number. We have been instructed we are not allowed to do that”. However, I’m going to push as hard as I can about this. If I have to I’m sending in Mrs. jmonroe. :mad:

jmonroe

driver100

He took care of ALL of the paperwork---

Yes, that would do it. I don't think people use lawyers too often in Florida. They do have title offices who are supposed to do all the work, for about $500.

Back home, you have to do it through a lawyer pretty well, and it will cost a minimum of about $1000 to register, do a search etc.

During good real estate times you can definitely do a sell by owner qauite easily and save big time. During these times, it would be a big disadvantage.
You need to find a buyer and you need every tool available. It would be just a waste of time to try and compete with people using agents....unless you have a neighbor already selling....and you might attract one of his clients.

driver100

relegated to doing less and less of our own maintenance so we have to look for things that we can do and oil changes are still one of them

Yes, you will have to stick to just waxing so you don't void your warranty. If the paint peels or fades they will probably blame you and they won't honor your warranty.

It is worth a fight though. You have been doing oil changes for a long time without any problems so they shouldn't use that against you. I wonder if it says oil changes must be done by a licensed mechanic etc.? Like you say, any one can do an oil change, you don't need a PHD or anything......hope you really give it to them! But, start out being very calm and rational......as if you are the most reasonable person in the world.
Good luck.....it will be interesting to see how it goes, this has been the story of the month.

jipster

Jip, do you pay the selling agent the 3% commission or whatever you agree to?

Yes, I'll pay buyers agent 3%. The buying and selling agents usually split a 6% commission.

If a buyer had contacted me directly, with no agent, then I would not be paying any commission.

Also, who looks after all the paperwork

We copied and printed out contracts and seller disclosure statements from the internet. Items our flat fee service provider would have given us anyway.

The buyers loan officer and agent are usually the one who directs what needs to be done and signed. When we were negotiating, the buyers agent and I would just fax the contract back and forth. The buyers agent also sets up the home inspection. I just give my "ok" that a certain day and time is available. The buyers agent then will send fax me a list of things the buyers think need repaired, from the home inspection. Those items can be negotiated on as well. At closing is when of the vast majority of paperwork is signed.

So, as the seller, I basically sit back and sign what is put in front of me. The buyers side is more involved with the paperwork. I remember when I bought my first house. It was ironically a "By Owner" sale. A lot more legwork involved.

roadburner

Beautiful cars! What year is the ancestor?

Thanks! The vintage BMW is a 1939 321 Cabriolet.

roadburner

How many miles have you got on that thing now?

It turned over 130,000 yesterday.

jmonroe

I wonder if it says oil changes must be done by a licensed mechanic etc.?

NO you definitely do not need a mechanic. 'tyguy' posted a link in post 74857 about the Magnuson-Moss act that prohibits warranty work must be done by the seller.

But, start out being very calm and rational......as if you are the most reasonable person in the world.

How long have you known me now? Don't you know that's the way I start out? However, I have been known to take the gloves off prematurely. :surprise:

jmonroe

jmonroe

It turned over 130,000 yesterday.

Nice car but how many oil changes? :sick:

jmonroe

fezo

It turned over 130,000 yesterday.

Oh, it's just a pup.

roadburner

Nice car but how many oil changes?

Eighteen, to be exact.

jmonroe

Eighteen, to be exact.

You have 18 on a car that has 130K miles? :confuse:

That ain't nothing. Mrs. j's XG 350 has 15 in 41K miles and the dealer/Hyundai has a problem with that. :sick: It's a damn good thing for you that you're out of the warranty period.

jmonroe

driver100

So, as the seller, I basically sit back and sign what is put in front of me.

yes, easier from your end...you just have to sign. The buyer has to be more careful. I think there would have been more work if there wasn't an agent involved.

Glad it went so well.....that's a win win for sure.

driver100

Mrs. j's XG 350 has 15 in 41K miles and the dealer/Hyundai has a problem with that

What i just learned is no one looks after their cars better than the guys who do their own oil changes...kind of ironic if you think about the Hyundai situation. :sick:

jmonroe

Glad it went so well.....that's a win win for sure.

I have to apologize to you about not congratulating you on your Florida home purchase. I have been so busy crying about my XG 350 oil change problem I failed to do that.

So, please accept my late congratulations. Don't make no wise [non-permissible content removed] comments about it either; I ain't in no mood now for any of that. :mad:

'jipster'...congrats to you also about the sale and purchase. The same conditions apply to you too. :P

jmonroe

roadburner

You have 18 on a car that has 130K miles?

Yes; it will get another at 131K miles, so my oil change interval averages out to @7K miles. I have used Mobil 1 exclusively. 0W-40 to be exact. I had a used oil analysis performed by Blackstone Labs at 125K miles; the oil had been in the engine for 8.2K miles. Here's what the lab had to say:

Your BMW's engine appears to be doing quite well at 125,244 miles. Our universal averages show normal wear for the M42 4-cylinder after 3,800 miles of oil use. You ran this 0W/40 oil well past that mark, so it was nice to see all metals reading close to or below average. They were also in balance to one another and that shows normally wearing parts and no mechanical problems brewing. The oil's TBN was 5.7, meaning there was lots of active additive left. A reading of 1.0 means it is too low. Air and oil filtration (see silicon/insolubles) were normal.

fezo

Oh, I didn't say congrats to driver either. Now he won't let me stay there a week a year.... Usually that first full week of November.... Still convertible time there. Actually I had the top down today and took a spin over to the ocean. Nice. Ocean looked great but I imagine it was about 50 degrees.

stickguy

still exist.

I have mentioned before that I am beginning to present options to my wife for a replacement for her Odyssey (even though the plan is Xmas 2012! can never start too early though...).

anyway, the current plan is a small to mid size CUV (she wants nothing to do with a wagon though). So, yesterday I show a picture and mention the new Ford Escape due out as being nice. Her comment? "I don't want a Ford." No reason, and this is from someone that has no clue about cars. And the only Ford we ever owned was a well used Contour we had for my son for about 8 months! Oh, and I had a Mercury mystique for about 3 years (that never caused trouble or bothered her, but she probably had no clue it was really a Ford!).

SO, I told her they were good now and we would look anyway. She did not seem convinced. And Ford is one place I have contacts (neighbor is a SM at the local dealer) so it wil get a look anyway.

explorerx4

the new CR-V could be a good choice.
Proven mechanicals, and it looks much better.

driver100

. Don't make no wise [non-permissible content removed] comments about it either; I ain't in no mood now for any of that.

Thanks, JM and I completely understand. Your problem is a big one I would be anxious about too....you have a lot on your plate to get through.

We've had a lot to do, things to buy, bank accounts to open, cable company to deal with. The cable company gave us an HD box but it doesn't have a slot for an HDMI cable. The people at Radio Shack couldn't believe the cable company would do this in this day an age. So, like you, tomorrow I have to fight it out with these people. It's probably an old rebuilt cable box that they thought we would never notice that it is almost impossible to get a descent picture with the old 5 color coded cables.

We are all hoping you the best tomorrow....and I hope we get a new cable box too.

We just love being here, temp was 82 today, back home it will be 36 tomorrow. We saw 2 Sandhill Cranes running across our lawn today, they make a loud honking noise. They come every day at 2 pm, a neighbor feeds them.

driver100

Now he won't let me stay there a week a year

Thanks Fezo. I'd love to let you have the place for a week in November but they have a rule hear that is probably a good one in a way. If you do let someone else stay in your home, they have to rent it for a minimum of 6 months. This is a good rule in a way, there seems to be a lot of friends and relatives who would like to stay here for 2 to 4 weeks - if we aren't here.

If it wasn't for that rule, and we don't want to break the rules when we just got here, it would have tried to make that work .

explorerx4

You should review your owner's manual for the procedure to make a warranty claim.
There is probably an arbitration option, which could work out in your favor since the dealer did the last oil change.

driver100

SO, I told her they were good now and we would look anyway.

I have no preconceived ideas about Ford,but I was very impressed with the Fusion, so I think it would be worth giving an Escape a test drive. I am renting a Volvo S80 this week, and though it is a well made comfortable car, I liked the Fusion even more. All, I am saying is your wife should give the Escape a chance if it is in the category you are considering.

explorerx4

Driver, when your wife says 'I don't want a Ford', don't push it.
When my wife said 'I don't want a Mercedes', I backed off.

fezo

So rent it to me for the six months ending the end of the first week of November. I'll give you $50 and just show up for the last week of the rental.

My folks coop in Clearwater has rules about how it can be used. A week by immediate family and some other things. Of course my folks are both gone and the coop is still there. Dad could have sold it for maybe $100K for a period of a few years. If we could get the $20k they paid for it we'd grab it now.

jmonroe

When my wife said 'I don't want a Mercedes', I backed off.

That's pretty much like what I said a year or two ago when Mrs. j wanted the Genny and I would have settled for a 3 Series. 'driver' couldn't understand it back then so I doubt that he'll get it now.

jmonroe

jmonroe

I don’t know if you’re still following my saga with Mrs. jmonroe’s XG 350 but I have a favor to ask of you.

As I have mentioned, the dealer did the last oil change a month ago and the windshield sticker says they used Pennzoil 5W20. I don’t have a problem with the Pennzoil part because that is all I have used myself but I have ALWAYS used 10W30. I don’t think that this different grade oil caused the problem with the thrown rod but is it a coincidence or could it actually be the problem.

So, my question is:

Can you ask your techs/service manager what they know about 5W20 being used in that engine. I know I’m fishing but I figure it can’t hurt.

Thanks,

jmonroe

sterlingdog

I hope that things go well for you this week. I know that it is a stressful experience through no fault of your own. We're leaving this morning for a week's stay in Nashville. My sister and BIL are joining us for the Grand Ole Opry Thanksgiving trip. The Radio City Rockettes and the Ice Dream performers will be there as well. We're staying at the Grand Ole Opry Hotel---a beautiful place where each suite faces a courtyard of lush vegetation, water falls, etc. We're looking forward ot it. I'll try to check in from the lap top.

Driver: I, too, have been so busy that I forgot to send best wishes on your Florida home purchase. May you have many years of enjoyment and happiness there.

I hope that everyone here has a wonderful Thanksgiving. We truly have much for which to be thankful. Blessings to all of you.

Richard

jmonroe

What jmonroe's dealer may be thinking is that if he changed his own all and screwed it up that could lead to failure on an otherwise clean engine.

That would certainly make a good case for always taking your car to the dealership for work. FWIW, I have probably been doing oil changes longer than the entry level guy that did mine but I’ll admit that I don’t have dealership certification.

One time I was in a hurry and didn't notice the old gasket had stuck and I double-gasketed the thing. A few hundred miles later my son drove it without oil and bingo, blown motor.

When I’m in a hurry I don’t do anything and that especially applies to working on cars. I take my time. I’m not paid by the hour and/or made to get as many cars as I can through my garage in a day. Besides, while I’m under there doing the oil change I take some time to poke around looking for problems and that is usually done while the oil is draining to save at least some time.

Not too long after I moved into my first house in 1969 I decided to see how long it took for the last drop of oil to fall. I know, I was just playing around and didn’t have anything better to do so I did this little experiment. I gave up; I couldn’t wait it out and I even went upstairs for lunch to kill time too. I came to the conclusion that about 5 minutes is long enough. You can’t tell me that you were in that much of a hurry.

I have heard the horror stories about the ole double gasket trick so I’m always on guard for that. The few times I have taken my car to others for an oil change I constantly check under the car for days just to be sure there is nothing leaking. It is a real pain and that is why I’d rather do it myself.

Your dealer might be afraid he did the same thing hence the problem. Now I know that Mr. monroe would never make a mistake let alone drive around with the oil light on but the dealer doesn't know him like we do.

My dealer might have done something wrong too…like putting in the wrong oil.

Like I said before when the car was still at the gas station that Mrs. j pulled into when this first happened…I checked the dip stick at least 5/6 times and it was not down quite a quart even though there was a decent sized puddle under the car.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

"...cable company to deal with..."

Yeah, those good 'ol boys always stick it to "ferners" and "yankees".

There is a lot of wildlife, especially birds in Florida. Just be careful if your development has drainage basins that you don't get jumped by gators. They can travel for miles through drain pipes and move from development to development far from "the swamps".

We almost ran over one sleeping in the roadway the first time we visited Largo. :surprise: