That would be a deal breaker for me with it being open ended like that.
Me too. Of course I'd be long gone as soon as they said I had to sign a form that I refused the offers.
As was mentioned before, and still makes perfect nonsense - It's like going to the store to get a quart of milk and while checking out they ask you to sign a form stating that you don't want a turkey.
Thank you for making a nice comment about the Sebring.
My son just bought a used low mileage Sebring at a really great price. It was a "manager's special." The Sebring is not the convertible but he's pretty happy with it - looks like fairly decent car.
I bought my first Sebring last fall and I love it. It has so many gadgets I call it my playground on wheels.
Since we’re on this Sebring thing, I have a ‘Story from the Sales Frontlines’ about one of these but it isn’t my car.
My brother that lives in Florida had a Solara convertible (that was really his wife’s car) that was coming off a lease. He went to the Toyota store for the turn in inspection about two weeks before the end of the lease and the dealer, whom he had leased this car and one other from, said everything was fine. He takes it in with the intention of getting a 2008 even though he said he didn’t like the idea that it looked almost identical to the 2006. The dealer then said, “Oh, wait a minute, the front tires are a little bit over the worn allowance”. This was because of an alignment problem that was never caught during any of the routine inspections and oil change visits at this dealership. He shows them the report from a few weeks previous and they said, “Whoever inspected it, missed it” and he’d have to pay for two new tires and the price was out of sight. He now asks for a report signed by the GM that all that is needed are two front tires. He gets the report, leaves, takes the car to a tire shop, buys two original equipment type of replacements, for a lot less money. Then he returns the car to the dealer and leaves.
This is where the Sebring thing comes in. Like I said he wasn’t crazy about getting another Solara to begin with because it was an identical car but it was a nice reliable car and he was willing to get another one. However, the Toyota dealer did their best to talk him out of it and they did.
He goes to a Chrysler dealer to get a Sebring hardtop convertible but the dealer wouldn’t deal so he decided to shop some more. It was the end of December 2007 and he was coming to the Burgh for a visit. He then got an idea; why not talk to the local dealer up here. It’s cold and convertibles probably aren’t moving like they do in Florida. Long story short the local guy up here has 7 of them and they’re all equipped the same. The only difference is color and he’s happy to unload one. He even saved enough to have it driven to Florida (since he and his wife flew up) and he would still save about $650. I can assure you he wasn’t down to his last $650 but he didn’t like the attitude of the SM at the Chrysler dealer in Florida. It turned out that my niece and nephew (his too) were going to south Florida, to visit friends, at the end of January 2008 and said they would drive it down since they like to drive and each of them would save some money by only having to buy one way tickets back.
Some people have all the luck and they really like the car. They get lots of top down use out of it down there but the tushy warmers get no use.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I owned a '99 Chrysler 300M for 5.5 years of which I was quite fond. A few early, known warranty issues but nothing major. Out of warranty, no problems (other than deteriorating Chrome wheels). Handsome, roomy, fun, relatively economical, reliable. Poor (typical Chrysler?) build quality, though. Very uneven panel gaps, but no leaks or problems presented by this. I really enjoyed that car, but I didn't want to keep it past 70,000 miles. Replaced it with an equally, or greater than, lovely Acura TL...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
As was mentioned before, and still makes perfect nonsense - It's like going to the store to get a quart of milk and while checking out they ask you to sign a form stating that you don't want a turkey.
Except nobody is going to sue a supermarket for ruining Thanskgiving dinner because they didn't offer a Turkey for sale.
We live in a litigious society. The dealership is just covering their butt. I have no problem with that.
Of course I know that. That's why the "Interior Clean Air Filtration System" (ICAFS) has a filter.
Is that what the Korean salesman told you? There is a filter for the external air entering your car. It is assumed that the interior air should be ok because of this. I've never seen an interior air filter. But that's ok if you say there is as it's your lint. :shades:
Me too. Of course I'd be long gone as soon as they said I had to sign a form that I refused the offers.
Alright everyone.... and this is directed at just you Venture and I mean no direspect but....
All of the people acting like they would walk out of a dealership and I have heard that quite a few times lately are full of it. :surprise:
If you bought a vehicle in the last few years you signed one.
You don't get told you have to sign this.
You are asked... while you are signing.... and correct me if I wrong Joel.
"sign here... this states that you refused any insurances offered by the dealership"
Customer ussualy says "Yeah I don't want that.... OK"
These forms are to prove the dealer wasn't discriminating against anyone and you were offered it. The way this came about is by consumers sueing dealers and stating they were never offered any services :surprise:
It is a compliance law that everyone has to go through.
Let's think of it this way. How do you think the Finance Manager feels when someone tells him right off the bat that he doesn't want to hear what they have to say. And they say it with a attitude. Yes it is how a Finance person gets paid but it is also what there job is. And if you don't sign it you can say they didn't do their job.
So if you feel it is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] I don't know what to tell you. If you are not going to sign them I guess none of you will be buying a car at a Dealer in the future.
You will have to buy private party.... And who knows what services weren't done on those cars.Blah,blah,blah.....
It is what it is....
I actually just had delivered a used vehicle to someone who was stating they didn't want to hear anything from the FInance manager before they went to sign.
When they were taking delivery they mentioned it again about how they didn't want to buy anything but if it was in their budget they would have after hearing what was being offered just for the piece of mind. Not being able to afford it is one thing but to just say it is all garbage is another. Ifit was all garbage. Why would it have to be done in compliance if it had no value??????
I have. It's called your nostril hairs. :surprise:
But, I'm pretty sure a couple bath towels would not do anything to clog a filter or an evaporator core. If it's a good quality towel like Martha Stewart.. probably less lent than the OEM carpet.
Went into the dealership today to get my oil changed on my Buick. Show the service writer my $5 off coupon for an oil change. I ask if the included 21 point inspection included inspecting the cooling system as I have a bit of oil in it... suspect lower intake gasket. He says they'll take a look, but any diagnostics would be $94. I say okay look, but I don't want any $94 diagnostics done... and then walk to the customer waiting area/lounge.
Some guy is in the lounge, channel surfing with a bunch of other customers. Every 15 seconds he changes the channel. A bit rude don't you think? He looked like he could have whooped me, so I didn't say anything. :sick:
After only 22 minutes I'm called to the cashiers desk. Upon my asking, a cute young lady says the lower intake is indeed bad and will cost $924 to repair? The service advisor didn't even try to upsell me on a much needed repair! I think that is Coupon Prejudice and am thinking of filing a lawsuit. So, those of you who don't like to have the upsell sprung on you, go in and way a couple coupons around... start talking about how Pep Boys is so much cheaper.
If it's just a wee bit how could anyone tell that the coolant is indeed contaminated? Did they do a coolant analysis? I suspect of the $924 quoted $800 will be for contaminated coolant disposal as that is classified as hazmat.
Might be cheaper to trade the buick for a hyundai at this point. :shades:
Since 2001 I have purchased 3 new and 1 used vehicles. The only time I was even presented with the mop and glow dance was while purchasing a used Nisssan Altima. Neither Toyota, Audi nor VW even bothered to waste my time. While it may be your dealership's policy to subject everyone to the pitch, there is no legal requirement where I live to make people sign a refusal. This is nothing more than a subtle form of intimidation of the ill informed to jack up the profit on a sale.
Got some interesting responses from dealers and salespeople pointing out that this is a two-way street, and that car buyers are also quite inconsiderate and unhelpful in the car-buying process sometimes. Some of those responses are posted at the bottom of the online column cited above.
So I'd like to do a follow-up story on the most unhelpful or annoying or obnoxious things that CAR BUYERS do. I've got several ideas but would like to cast a wider net. Thoughts? Can post here in this thread, or in the comments area of the online column above.
Thanks, Rick Newman Chief Business Correspondent U.S.News & World Report
"Young arts professionals like yourself are more trusting, but as you get older, you'll learn that you can't trust people---especially car manufacturers."
Richard--
Who are you calling young? Don't you know that I'm only a year younger than Mackabee and everyone knows how old he is! :P Thanks for your kind, supportive words about the arts. I wish more administrators felt as you do.
Glad to hear that your still happy with your current Chrysler and thus unlikely to fall prey to the forthcoming automaker inducements designed to get your stimulus check. It looks like part of our check will be going to the 60K service on my wife's Toyota Rav4. We're doing our part to keep the economy rolling although car maintenance would not have been my preferred "vehicle".
I'm not positive, but I think I read that Chrysler customers will get the gas card and keep any available rebate(s)--maybe someone can clarify.
Cabin air filters filter incoming air. Not air that is already in the cabin. The lint we are talking about exists in the CABIN. Don't believe me? Ask one of your Toyota techs.
"I love convertibles. I'll put the top down at 40 degrees, turn on the heater, wear a warm coat and hat, take a cup of coffee, and go for a ride."
My MR2 has the T-Tops. I guess I'll never be a "convertible guy" because I've only removed them once in 8 years. At least they don't leak. I'm not aware of any new models that come with T-Tops, are there any? Apparently they've fallen out of favor. Are they destined for the scrap heap of history like the foot well mounted high-beam switch?
Serves me right, I'm always backing the wrong format (i.e. beta). Thank God, I didn't jump on the HD bandwagon. Of course, I didn't back Blue Ray either and can't seem to find the exit from the analog universe. Must be why I work in two dimensions not three.
Heck, all you got to do is look up "Inconsiderate buyers" in the Edmund's archives and check out my posts. You'll have a field day with those. On a side note, nothing irritates me more than a customer saying "I want to look at a Camry." and I say "V6 or 4 cylinder." and they respond "No V6, just the V4." :confuse: THERE IS NO V4!!!!
T tops are the 8 tracks of the automotive world.....
They were popular when convertibles disappeared for a bit and seem to have vanished by the time convertibles started showing up again.
Now if you actually had a convertible where all you have to do is push a button to drop the top or bring it back up and not have to worry about where to put the top you'd use it more often. (Where DO you put the top on an MR2? It's not like it has a real trunk.)
Upper 70s and sunny here. I need to get out of work and go somewhere and work on my sunburn.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Let's keep the responses organized, so we'll do an official press call here:
A reporter seeks to interview car salespeople who can comment on unhelpful or annoying or obnoxious things that car buyers do. If you have any input to share, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience no later than Thursday, May 15, 2008. Thanks, Jeannine Fallon Corporate Communications Edmunds Inc.
Um... anyone here know any salespeople who can provide stories? :shades:
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
If it's just a wee bit how could anyone tell that the coolant is indeed contaminated? Did they do a coolant analysis?
If the coolant had oil in it, it would be contaminated. I don't think it has enough oil in the coolant system to hurt anything though... kind of like swimming in a large pool with a lot of kids, who you are pretty sure have pee'd in it. Which is why I avoid pools.
They did not do a coolant analysis, just a visual inspection. I will gladly pay the $800 biohaz disposal fee if it helps planet earf.
Might be cheaper to trade the buick for a hyundai at this point
There is a filter for the external air entering your car. It is assumed that the interior air should be ok because of this. I've never seen an interior air filter.
Did you really think you got me on that one? I’m a technical wizard. Since cars operate on DC voltage it is very easy to install a reversing switch so the blower operates in reverse. Thereby, back blowing (sota like back flushing a water filled system) the evaporator coil; thus keeping it clean of lint and other stuff. :surprise:
But that's ok if you say there is as it's your lint.
You’re darn right it is and I’ll dispose of it the way I want to. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Thanks, was trying to do this clever post at work but I guess was blocked by our proxy from doing so...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Gogi, you have an MR2 T-TOP? tell me about it. What year is it, how many miles, what color,..etc,,etc..how much you want for it. even better, post some pictures! Mack :shades:
A friend of mine was helping his 22 year old son shop for a '08 Honda Civic. Sent out three emails and received one quote for invoice +$500. With this in hand they proceeded to the other two dealerships where MSRP+$2K was the going rate. No discounts offered nor factory incentives. Figuring they had that one quote in hand they proceeded to the last Honda dealership. Looking through the Civics they picked one out and went in with a salesperson to work out a deal. When presenting the email quote the salesperson said he would have to clear it with his manager. Well to no surprise the SM said we are not dealing on the Civics. We can knock of $1k on the $2K ADM and that's it. Guess the email was a lowball.
Being worn down from the previous two dealerships. They went ahead and purchased the car ending up paying a little over $18K for a Civic DX. And who says lowballing doesn't work?
Wait a minute here. I'm confused :confuse: Did they purchase the car at the dealership that sent the $500 over invoice quote? Or did they give up after the dealer told them he would knock off 1k off the ADM? Please clarify.
And why didn't they go to the dealership that e-mailed the quote first? Something don't jibe here. I smell a rat.. :shades:
Looking over your post again I see they bought at the $500.00 over invoice dealer at 1k off ADM. Correct? If they had the email in hand with the dealerships point of contact why didn't they fight it to get the quoted price? I would have written the GM and all the way up to the owner. I bet they would have gotten the $500.00 over price.
I read your article and found it dead accurate. There are dozens of reasons why dealerships wish the internet would dry up and blow away, and you identified several.
Let us know (on this board) when you get your piece written on the scumbucket car-buying habits of the great unwashed -- that'd be me & my ilk.
I was pretty stunned by a couple of the dealership people that responded to that article. The combination of righteous indignity combined with sometimes borderline use of the English language is amazing!
The one in particular is so big on the negotiation process. Look, this should not be new to anyone in the business. EIGHT years ago friends of mine bought a beauty of a 2000 Maxima SE completely by the fax method. They invited dealers to bid on exactly what they wanted. When they had their replies they went one more round with the three best offers and within days had the car at the price they wanted in and out. No fuss no muss.
For the dealer it was still profit and required very little work. They had loads of time to go make more off of people who go the traditional route.
This isn't rocket science and any time a dealer tries to make like it is and that I "just don't understand" I am out of there.
That said, treat me courteously and fairly and I'm a very easy customer.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Yes they bought at the dealership that emailed them the invoice + $500 lowball. That being their third of three stops. The first two were uneventful being told that MSRP + $2K was the going rate and take it or leave it. Do you smell conspiracy here? Seems all three were at MSRP +$2K while the last of the three gave them $1K off of that.
To pay $18K for a bottom of the line Civic DX is criminal in my opinion. However, my opinion doesn't count as they bought the car. Looking at the incentives offered by Honda 2.9% for 60 months you'd think they would qualify for that but they weren't even offered the Honda financing. As to why they didn't pursue the emailed quote I have no clue.
For myself I would've walked out and bought a Corolla but I guess the kid likes the Civic for some reason or other.
The thing buyers fail to realize is that you are not the only one we are dealing with at the time. Faxes get lost, they are given to a salesperson and he/she loses it etc. These and other types of "deals" fax blast, e-mail flood, and my favorite; "fleet deals" are deals that don't take much time (in the customer's eyes) you should see the other side. Fax this, fax that wait for a response. No response. Bidding war begins, and no matter what you believe THERE IS NO PROFIT in these deals! Guess what we are paid on commission not by the hour. Our job is to maximize profit, period. I will give a car away in a minute when I'm dealing with an informed buyer that is ready to buy and is reasonable on price. I don't have the time or the patience anymore to do the 3-4 marathon negotiation deals. It might be sport to some customers but not to me. I'll let the green pea deal with them. Mack :shades:
I will give a car away in a minute when I'm dealing with an informed buyer that is ready to buy and is reasonable on price.
That explains why when I bought the last two times (05’ and 06’) I got my price.
I’m sure I’m going to bore the regulars here because I’ve said it several times on these boards before. Both times I started with the Internet and followed up with a phone call.
In 05’ the salesman said the store policy was not to give a lower price than the e-mail reply but if I came in I wouldn’t be disappointed. I’m sure the e-mil price was better than what their first offer would have been had I just gone to the dealership but it was still higher than my price. I didn’t want to play games, I wanted to buy a car and I wanted to save time. We were a little over $200 apart and I told him that. Since that dealer was very close I went in and made the deal in less than 30 minutes.
In 06’ that same salesman wasn’t willing to deal even though I went to the store after again being given the same line as in 05’. I left, went home and called the next guy who also gave me an e-mail price. The second guys e-mail price was almost the same as the first guy’s price. The only difference was I’d have to go to the other side of town if we could come to terms. I decided that this deal would be done entirely over the phone because I didn’t want to run to the other side of town to play games. So, I called him and told him what I wanted. At first he said he couldn’t do it but when I thanked him for his time, he said he’d go to his boss and get right back to me. Again we were around $200 apart. He called back in 20 minutes and we had a deal at my price.
Neither guy spent a lot of time nor did either guy make a killing (at least I hope not) but both times they made a quick sale and I’m sure because of that it was worth their time.
I know this Internet thing works in my area because I’ve done it, twice. I won’t go back to the traditional way until it stops.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've got several ideas but would like to cast a wider net
Ahhh... that's what we call here as "cherry picking". Using select data to support your theorys. I use it all the time... good job.
But, may I suggest "the jipst" method of internet car buying, which you may use in your next column. You indicate in your column that a buyer "Identify the precise car you want." But, to do this you need to pay a visit to the dealership. The odds that a dealership will have the precise car in the color you want is slim... I would advise against ordering, especially with internet quotes. So, go to the dealership, pick out 2 or 3 cars you like, get all available info on the car, including vin #...THEN make your initial internet contact for a quote. This establishes that you are a serious buyer, and the odds of getting an actual quote go up from 14% to nearly 65%.
Also, I noted several grammer mistakes in yo article. We gots a guy here named Richard who could take care of that problem for you.
Except nobody is going to sue a supermarket for ruining Thanskgiving dinner because they didn't offer a Turkey for sale.
We live in a litigious society. The dealership is just covering their butt. I have no problem with that.
Are you saying that one or more car buyers have sued dealership(s) because they claim after months/years of ownership that their lack of proper maintenance such as wash/wax exterior, clean spills on interior quickly, etc resulted in visual surface damage? And, that that damage could/would have been prevented if they had Mop and Glo installed? And, that they did not know about mop and glo because dealer did not offer it? If any suits actually heard in a court anywhere, what were the decisions?
Should other business owners follow car dealership practices on mop and glow? Turnabout is fair play. Perhaps the fancy restaurants that dealer owners eat at should also institute a "decline form".
Let's say that car dealer orders a prime rib dinner at a fine restaurant on a Saturday night after a couple Manhattans and then declines high margin appetizer, high-margin bottle of wine and then at end declines high-margin desert.
The waiter would advise the car dealer at apetizer declination that total experience of prime rib dining will be diminished without appropriate apetizer and that car dealer will have to sign form stating that he was so advised and decided to decline. Car dealer would also have to sign again after being offered option to thoroughly enjoy medium-rare prime rib with a fine red wine. Car dealer would also have to sign after being offered chocolate mouse or other fine deserts with cup of coffee to properly cap off meal.
I think the concern has more to do with issues of discrimination, treating all customers the same, etc. Also dealership personnel are expected to offer the full range of products and services to every customer. I'm sure some of the "waiver" forms are a check by the dealership to assure that these products and services are in fact being offered to every customer.
As to your food service example, it may be ridiculous to ask a customer to sign a similar "No, thanks" form, but servers are under similar expectations. I have witnessed servers be reprimanded and even terminated for not offering dessert to every customer or for consistently failing to suggest an appetizer. The owners of those restaurants have a reasonable business expectation that their highest profit items are being offered. They often hire "secret shoppers" to make sure it is happening. May seem even more silly, but there have been instances of restaurants being sued for not offering the same level of service to every customer.
It is not out of the realm of possibility that an auto dealership could be hit with a similar silly lawsuit by some estranged customer claiming "but they never told me" or "but they never offered that to me."
"This was because of an alignment problem that was never caught during any of the routine inspections and oil change visits at the dealership."
Your brother should have balked at having to buy two new tires since the dealership didn't check it out during those service visits.
Ask your brother if he is having any problems getting the automatic top up and down. I noticed on Edmunds that some people have complained about that. I bought the last model before the big change was made, so I don't have that problem.
I agree with you about some of the Chrysler quality issues. On my convertible, the dash could use better plastic instrumentation and better quality fabric for the seats. They use very good body paint and cloth tops, but then they seem to make short cuts on the interior.
Comments
Me too. Of course I'd be long gone as soon as they said I had to sign a form that I refused the offers.
As was mentioned before, and still makes perfect nonsense - It's like going to the store to get a quart of milk and while checking out they ask you to sign a form stating that you don't want a turkey.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Just thought I'd mention that in case you're wondering why your a/c wasn't functioning up to par.
My son just bought a used low mileage Sebring at a really great price. It was a "manager's special." The Sebring is not the convertible but he's pretty happy with it - looks like fairly decent car.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Of course I know that. That's why the "Interior Clean Air Filtration System" (ICAFS) has a filter. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard
Richard
Since we’re on this Sebring thing, I have a ‘Story from the Sales Frontlines’ about one of these but it isn’t my car.
My brother that lives in Florida had a Solara convertible (that was really his wife’s car) that was coming off a lease. He went to the Toyota store for the turn in inspection about two weeks before the end of the lease and the dealer, whom he had leased this car and one other from, said everything was fine. He takes it in with the intention of getting a 2008 even though he said he didn’t like the idea that it looked almost identical to the 2006. The dealer then said, “Oh, wait a minute, the front tires are a little bit over the worn allowance”. This was because of an alignment problem that was never caught during any of the routine inspections and oil change visits at this dealership. He shows them the report from a few weeks previous and they said, “Whoever inspected it, missed it” and he’d have to pay for two new tires and the price was out of sight. He now asks for a report signed by the GM that all that is needed are two front tires. He gets the report, leaves, takes the car to a tire shop, buys two original equipment type of replacements, for a lot less money. Then he returns the car to the dealer and leaves.
This is where the Sebring thing comes in. Like I said he wasn’t crazy about getting another Solara to begin with because it was an identical car but it was a nice reliable car and he was willing to get another one. However, the Toyota dealer did their best to talk him out of it and they did.
He goes to a Chrysler dealer to get a Sebring hardtop convertible but the dealer wouldn’t deal so he decided to shop some more. It was the end of December 2007 and he was coming to the Burgh for a visit. He then got an idea; why not talk to the local dealer up here. It’s cold and convertibles probably aren’t moving like they do in Florida. Long story short the local guy up here has 7 of them and they’re all equipped the same. The only difference is color and he’s happy to unload one. He even saved enough to have it driven to Florida (since he and his wife flew up) and he would still save about $650. I can assure you he wasn’t down to his last $650 but he didn’t like the attitude of the SM at the Chrysler dealer in Florida. It turned out that my niece and nephew (his too) were going to south Florida, to visit friends, at the end of January 2008 and said they would drive it down since they like to drive and each of them would save some money by only having to buy one way tickets back.
Some people have all the luck and they really like the car. They get lots of top down use out of it down there but the tushy warmers get no use.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I owned a '99 Chrysler 300M for 5.5 years of which I was quite fond. A few early, known warranty issues but nothing major. Out of warranty, no problems (other than deteriorating Chrome wheels). Handsome, roomy, fun, relatively economical, reliable. Poor (typical Chrysler?) build quality, though. Very uneven panel gaps, but no leaks or problems presented by this. I really enjoyed that car, but I didn't want to keep it past 70,000 miles. Replaced it with an equally, or greater than, lovely Acura TL...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Except nobody is going to sue a supermarket for ruining Thanskgiving dinner because they didn't offer a Turkey for sale.
We live in a litigious society. The dealership is just covering their butt. I have no problem with that.
Is that what the Korean salesman told you? There is a filter for the external air entering your car. It is assumed that the interior air should be ok because of this. I've never seen an interior air filter. But that's ok if you say there is as it's your lint. :shades:
Alright everyone.... and this is directed at just you Venture and I mean no direspect but....
All of the people acting like they would walk out of a dealership and I have heard that quite a few times lately are full of it. :surprise:
If you bought a vehicle in the last few years you signed one.
You don't get told you have to sign this.
You are asked... while you are signing.... and correct me if I wrong Joel.
"sign here... this states that you refused any insurances offered by the dealership"
Customer ussualy says "Yeah I don't want that.... OK"
These forms are to prove the dealer wasn't discriminating against anyone and you were offered it. The way this came about is by consumers sueing dealers and stating they were never offered any services :surprise:
It is a compliance law that everyone has to go through.
Let's think of it this way. How do you think the Finance Manager feels when someone tells him right off the bat that he doesn't want to hear what they have to say. And they say it with a attitude. Yes it is how a Finance person gets paid but it is also what there job is. And if you don't sign it you can say they didn't do their job.
So if you feel it is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] I don't know what to tell you. If you are not going to sign them I guess none of you will be buying a car at a Dealer in the future.
You will have to buy private party.... And who knows what services weren't done on those cars.Blah,blah,blah.....
It is what it is....
I actually just had delivered a used vehicle to someone who was stating they didn't want to hear anything from the FInance manager before they went to sign.
When they were taking delivery they mentioned it again about how they didn't want to buy anything but if it was in their budget they would have after hearing what was being offered just for the piece of mind. Not being able to afford it is one thing but to just say it is all garbage is another. Ifit was all garbage. Why would it have to be done in compliance if it had no value??????
Thanks for listening/reading rant over
GP
I have. It's called your nostril hairs. :surprise:
But, I'm pretty sure a couple bath towels would not do anything to clog a filter or an evaporator core. If it's a good quality towel like Martha Stewart.. probably less lent than the OEM carpet.
Some guy is in the lounge, channel surfing with a bunch of other customers. Every 15 seconds he changes the channel. A bit rude don't you think? He looked like he could have whooped me, so I didn't say anything. :sick:
After only 22 minutes I'm called to the cashiers desk. Upon my asking, a cute young lady says the lower intake is indeed bad and will cost $924 to repair? The service advisor didn't even try to upsell me on a much needed repair! I think that is Coupon Prejudice and am thinking of filing a lawsuit. So, those of you who don't like to have the upsell sprung on you, go in and way a couple coupons around... start talking about how Pep Boys is so much cheaper.
If it's just a wee bit how could anyone tell that the coolant is indeed contaminated? Did they do a coolant analysis? I suspect of the $924 quoted $800 will be for contaminated coolant disposal as that is classified as hazmat.
Might be cheaper to trade the buick for a hyundai at this point. :shades:
Got some interesting responses from dealers and salespeople pointing out that this is a two-way street, and that car buyers are also quite inconsiderate and unhelpful in the car-buying process sometimes. Some of those responses are posted at the bottom of the online column cited above.
So I'd like to do a follow-up story on the most unhelpful or annoying or obnoxious things that CAR BUYERS do. I've got several ideas but would like to cast a wider net. Thoughts? Can post here in this thread, or in the comments area of the online column above.
Thanks,
Rick Newman
Chief Business Correspondent
U.S.News & World Report
Richard--
Who are you calling young? Don't you know that I'm only a year younger than Mackabee and everyone knows how old he is! :P Thanks for your kind, supportive words about the arts. I wish more administrators felt as you do.
Glad to hear that your still happy with your current Chrysler and thus unlikely to fall prey to the forthcoming automaker inducements designed to get your stimulus check. It looks like part of our check will be going to the 60K service on my wife's Toyota Rav4. We're doing our part to keep the economy rolling although car maintenance would not have been my preferred "vehicle".
I'm not positive, but I think I read that Chrysler customers will get the gas card and keep any available rebate(s)--maybe someone can clarify.
Gogiboy
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Mack
I was reading autoweek's article
In any case, do any of the cars listed in that chrysler article require premium? my guess is no.
And you are correct, it is no different than giving up rebates for a good rate. Consumers are always free to choose whatever they want.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My MR2 has the T-Tops. I guess I'll never be a "convertible guy" because I've only removed them once in 8 years. At least they don't leak. I'm not aware of any new models that come with T-Tops, are there any? Apparently they've fallen out of favor. Are they destined for the scrap heap of history like the foot well mounted high-beam switch?
Serves me right, I'm always backing the wrong format (i.e. beta). Thank God, I didn't jump on the HD bandwagon. Of course, I didn't back Blue Ray either and can't seem to find the exit from the analog universe. Must be why I work in two dimensions not three.
Gogiboy
On a side note, nothing irritates me more than a customer saying "I want to look at a Camry." and I say "V6 or 4 cylinder." and they respond "No V6, just the V4." :confuse:
THERE IS NO V4!!!!
They were popular when convertibles disappeared for a bit and seem to have vanished by the time convertibles started showing up again.
Now if you actually had a convertible where all you have to do is push a button to drop the top or bring it back up and not have to worry about where to put the top you'd use it more often. (Where DO you put the top on an MR2? It's not like it has a real trunk.)
Upper 70s and sunny here. I need to get out of work and go somewhere and work on my sunburn.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
A reporter seeks to interview car salespeople who can comment on unhelpful or annoying or obnoxious things that car buyers do. If you have any input to share, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience no later than Thursday, May 15, 2008.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds Inc.
Um... anyone here know any salespeople who can provide stories? :shades:
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
If the coolant had oil in it, it would be contaminated. I don't think it has enough oil in the coolant system to hurt anything though... kind of like swimming in a large pool with a lot of kids, who you are pretty sure have pee'd in it. Which is why I avoid pools.
They did not do a coolant analysis, just a visual inspection. I will gladly pay the $800 biohaz disposal fee if it helps planet earf.
Might be cheaper to trade the buick for a hyundai at this point
haha... that's a good one. :P
Did you really think you got me on that one? I’m a technical wizard. Since cars operate on DC voltage it is very easy to install a reversing switch so the blower operates in reverse. Thereby, back blowing (sota like back flushing a water filled system) the evaporator coil; thus keeping it clean of lint and other stuff. :surprise:
But that's ok if you say there is as it's your lint.
You’re darn right it is and I’ll dispose of it the way I want to. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Oh, I get it. You like to swim in streams, lakes and oceans where both the kids and the fishies have P’d in it. :confuse:
Might be cheaper to trade the buick for a hyundai at this point
haha... that's a good one.
So when you gonna do it?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
even better, post some pictures!
Mack :shades:
Mack
Mackabee
I still like a roof that does all the work itself but I wouldn't say no to anyone wishing to give me an MR2...
Being worn down from the previous two dealerships. They went ahead and purchased the car ending up paying a little over $18K for a Civic DX. And who says lowballing doesn't work?
And why didn't they go to the dealership that e-mailed the quote first? Something don't jibe here. I smell a rat..
:shades:
Looking over your post again I see they bought at the $500.00 over invoice dealer at 1k off ADM. Correct?
If they had the email in hand with the dealerships point of contact why didn't they fight it to get the quoted price? I would have written the GM and all the way up to the owner. I bet they would have gotten the $500.00 over price.
Let us know (on this board) when you get your piece written on the scumbucket car-buying habits of the great unwashed -- that'd be me & my ilk.
The one in particular is so big on the negotiation process. Look, this should not be new to anyone in the business. EIGHT years ago friends of mine bought a beauty of a 2000 Maxima SE completely by the fax method. They invited dealers to bid on exactly what they wanted. When they had their replies they went one more round with the three best offers and within days had the car at the price they wanted in and out. No fuss no muss.
For the dealer it was still profit and required very little work. They had loads of time to go make more off of people who go the traditional route.
This isn't rocket science and any time a dealer tries to make like it is and that I "just don't understand" I am out of there.
That said, treat me courteously and fairly and I'm a very easy customer.
The Fax Attack method of negotiating a fair price is still alive and well.
To pay $18K for a bottom of the line Civic DX is criminal in my opinion. However, my opinion doesn't count as they bought the car. Looking at the incentives offered by Honda 2.9% for 60 months you'd think they would qualify for that but they weren't even offered the Honda financing. As to why they didn't pursue the emailed quote I have no clue.
For myself I would've walked out and bought a Corolla but I guess the kid likes the Civic for some reason or other.
Mack :shades:
That explains why when I bought the last two times (05’ and 06’) I got my price.
I’m sure I’m going to bore the regulars here because I’ve said it several times on these boards before. Both times I started with the Internet and followed up with a phone call.
In 05’ the salesman said the store policy was not to give a lower price than the e-mail reply but if I came in I wouldn’t be disappointed. I’m sure the e-mil price was better than what their first offer would have been had I just gone to the dealership but it was still higher than my price. I didn’t want to play games, I wanted to buy a car and I wanted to save time. We were a little over $200 apart and I told him that. Since that dealer was very close I went in and made the deal in less than 30 minutes.
In 06’ that same salesman wasn’t willing to deal even though I went to the store after again being given the same line as in 05’. I left, went home and called the next guy who also gave me an e-mail price. The second guys e-mail price was almost the same as the first guy’s price. The only difference was I’d have to go to the other side of town if we could come to terms. I decided that this deal would be done entirely over the phone because I didn’t want to run to the other side of town to play games. So, I called him and told him what I wanted. At first he said he couldn’t do it but when I thanked him for his time, he said he’d go to his boss and get right back to me. Again we were around $200 apart. He called back in 20 minutes and we had a deal at my price.
Neither guy spent a lot of time nor did either guy make a killing (at least I hope not) but both times they made a quick sale and I’m sure because of that it was worth their time.
I know this Internet thing works in my area because I’ve done it, twice. I won’t go back to the traditional way until it stops.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Ahhh... that's what we call here as "cherry picking". Using select data to support your theorys. I use it all the time... good job.
But, may I suggest "the jipst" method of internet car buying, which you may use in your next column. You indicate in your column that a buyer "Identify the precise car you want." But, to do this you need to pay a visit to the dealership. The odds that a dealership will have the precise car in the color you want is slim... I would advise against ordering, especially with internet quotes. So, go to the dealership, pick out 2 or 3 cars you like, get all available info on the car, including vin #...THEN make your initial internet contact for a quote. This establishes that you are a serious buyer, and the odds of getting an actual quote go up from 14% to nearly 65%.
Also, I noted several grammer mistakes in yo article. We gots a guy here named Richard who could take care of that problem for you.
We live in a litigious society. The dealership is just covering their butt. I have no problem with that.
Are you saying that one or more car buyers have sued dealership(s) because they claim after months/years of ownership that their lack of proper maintenance such as wash/wax exterior, clean spills on interior quickly, etc resulted in visual surface damage? And, that that damage could/would have been prevented if they had Mop and Glo installed? And, that they did not know about mop and glo because dealer did not offer it? If any suits actually heard in a court anywhere, what were the decisions?
Should other business owners follow car dealership practices on mop and glow? Turnabout is fair play. Perhaps the fancy restaurants that dealer owners eat at should also institute a "decline form".
Let's say that car dealer orders a prime rib dinner at a fine restaurant on a Saturday night after a couple Manhattans and then declines high margin appetizer, high-margin bottle of wine and then at end declines high-margin desert.
The waiter would advise the car dealer at apetizer declination that total experience of prime rib dining will be diminished without appropriate apetizer and that car dealer will have to sign form stating that he was so advised and decided to decline. Car dealer would also have to sign again after being offered option to thoroughly enjoy medium-rare prime rib with a fine red wine. Car dealer would also have to sign after being offered chocolate mouse or other fine deserts with cup of coffee to properly cap off meal.
As to your food service example, it may be ridiculous to ask a customer to sign a similar "No, thanks" form, but servers are under similar expectations. I have witnessed servers be reprimanded and even terminated for not offering dessert to every customer or for consistently failing to suggest an appetizer. The owners of those restaurants have a reasonable business expectation that their highest profit items are being offered. They often hire "secret shoppers" to make sure it is happening. May seem even more silly, but there have been instances of restaurants being sued for not offering the same level of service to every customer.
It is not out of the realm of possibility that an auto dealership could be hit with a similar silly lawsuit by some estranged customer claiming "but they never told me" or "but they never offered that to me."
Your brother should have balked at having to buy two new tires since the dealership didn't check it out during those service visits.
Ask your brother if he is having any problems getting the automatic top up and down. I noticed on Edmunds that some people have complained about that. I bought the last model before the big change was made, so I don't have that problem.
Richard
Richard