As most people know there is no money to be made selling new cars. Competition is fierce and customers are just looking for the lowest price without regard to customer service. I just got burned bad on a survey from a customer I sold two months ago. I met him and his friend a month before he came in to buy a car for his sister. I was very upfront with him when he asked me what he could buy a Yaris for. I told him that the markup was so low that it didn't matter to me if he paid sticker or invoice for it. I would still get a WHOPPING $100.00 bucks on the sale. So to make a long story longer, he shows up one day with his sister. Really nice lady and at that time I also thought he was a really nice guy. Business owner, driving a Lexus LS, money coming out of his butt, etc...etc..
He gives me the stock number for a 4 door 5spd Yaris that retails for about $14k and change. His sister and I take it for a test drive and she is just thrilled that she is getting the car. Her credit is not that great due to a divorce so brother is co-signing for her.
We get back and ready to wrap it up. I go to the sales desk and tell the sales manager that I'm selling the car at invoice and he nods his head so we can start the day with the first deal on the board.
Mop & Glo girl comes over, gives her spiel and they end up buying the paint sealant and fabric protection. Since it's the first car of the day the detail department is not busy so they go ahead and do the paint treatment.
When I get back to the showroom, the brother is pissed and tells me he is not paying the rate they quoted him in the business office. "I have excellent credit. I don't know how my payment jumped from $200.00 a month to $310.00 a month. I'm ready to undo the deal.!" he exclaims. "Hold on, I'll go see what's up."
I go to the business office and Jenny is sitting there and I ask her what happened. "I was going over the menu with him and showed him what his payments would be with a warranty, gap, etc. and he went ballistic on me." she replies. At that moment Mr. Rickles (not his real name) walks into the room and we get back to business. I explain to him that what she did is part of her job and if they don't want any of it to just say no. He sits down and I go back to the showroom.
About 45 minutes later they come out of the business office and the car is ready to go. I get their license plates and Jenny comes over and tells me they didn't want the paint sealant and fabric protection after all and he beat her up on the rate.
We walk out to the car and and it's nice and shiny with a full tank of gas and the interior is still moist from the chemical that's used to protect the fabric.
I remind them of the survey and he tells me not to worry that I did an excellent job. His sister also smiles and tells me the same thing.
The next day I do my follow up call to see if any questions came up and if they are happy with the car.
Mr. Rickles answers the phone and when I identify myself he blows my hair back (whatever was left of it). "What's wrong Mr. Rickles? Did I do something to offend you?" I ask in a quiet tone. "I'm disappointed at you. I thought you would go into the finance office and fight for me!" :confuse: "Excuse me?" I responded. "I thought everything was fine after I went in. You guys seemed really happy yesterday." I continued. "I'm never buying a car in Tidewater anymore. All the dealers here are a bunch of crooks!" he tells me. "I'm sorry but you should have not taken the car if you weren't completely satisfied with the transaction. You may speak to our General Manager Mr. Fujimata (not his real name either)" I tell him. "I just might do that." and he hangs up the phone.
I let my boss know and he tells me he'll be waiting for his call and also have the customer relations manager call him.
So, I don't hear anything else until today when I come in. The GSM (general sales manager who worked the deal with me) "Hey, your customer on the Yaris from a couple of months ago toasted us on the survey. Big 0" he tells me. "Really? It sure took a long time for the survey to get in. Oh well, I did my best and that's what I get. Go figure"
The End !! (Wow that's a new milestone for me! Complete story in one sitting)
Good story Mac and congratulation on completing it in one sitting.
While not in sales or even having to deal with the public, I have had the "honor?" of seeing a few like that in action and I just want to smack them. :mad:
They tell me that some day we will reap what we sow.
The End !! (Wow that's a new milestone for me! Complete story in one sitting)
Wait. What happened to the rest of the ongoing story with the Highlander? The last part to that series was back on May 5 and ended with this:
Gesell comes over and introduces herself. I leave them alone and go check on other things while she does her spiel. She takes about 15 to 20 minutes and then leaves. I walk over and tell him Jenny is ready for him. I walk him over to the little padded room known as the "business office" and introduce him to Jenny and tell him I'll be in the showroom if they need me."
About 45 minutes later they come out of the business office and the car is ready to go. I get their license plates and Jenny comes over and tells me they didn't want the paint sealant and fabric protection after all and he beat her up on the rate.
So, by Mr. Rickles thowing his little tantrum, he ended up getting the paint sealant and fabric protection for free? Not like you can scrape it back off. What a jerk who makes the rest of us consumers look bad.
Don't really understand how he got a hold of his sister's survey. He must of brainwashed (reprogrammed) her on how to fill it out.
Seriously, I hope you club the next one like a baby seal.
TV had a story about SUV trade-ins being worth squat, Prius selling like hotcakes along with Yaris and some Chevy econobox.
Thing that fuzzed me was a guy trading a C5 Vette and the dealer asking him why he was trading and he said gas mileage. I happen to know those things get 28 hwy and 24 when you drive hard. Perhaps a few less when you try to get it airborne.
Makes no sense to me. I have a Toyota V6 getting 30.8 AVG MPG for the last 3 years and would trade for a 01 Vette all day long.
I used to be willing to read the ". . . to be continued" posts until I learned that, well, they wouldn't be, at least to the end. I think it's called a happy ending, and we haven't had all that many, at least on the board here.
I don't have any idea how many of these have been left hanging/dangling/whatever, but they are legion.
Here's what you do: go to the bottom -- if it says "to be continued," don't even start.
Now be nice pinhead! There might be one or two that are still unfinished. I may leave them that way so when my second book gets published it will read: "To be Continued: The unfinished stories!"
PS. I have to write the first though. One of my boys keeps bugging me to write one. Mack
Your comment regarding the "Benjamins" and 1099s makes me think that you are implying that car sales persons would engage in tax fraud. Are we contributing to the negative stereotyping that the pros here complain so bitterly about?
Not at all. Knowing how frugal some people on this board are, I was simply trying to ensure that they don't attempt to write off that gift.
Thanks for the information, but we never ,and would never, put a hot pan on a counter top. In fact, when we bought this house last year, it actually had a thermo-glass hot pad built into the counter next to the wall ovens. We plan to keep it when we change our counter tops. Don't forget to check out your porous status on the various surfaces. Good luck with your project.
Mack, congratulations. I knew that if I lived long enough you would finish a story at one sitting. Please finish the Highlander story. The suspense is getting to me.
Staff Writer Sonic Automotive Inc., a Charlotte, N.C.-based auto dealership company, has bought the Thoroughbred Motor Cars dealership on Franklin Road for $8.5 million,
SONIC is awful to work for, they treat their employees like dog excrement and could not care less about them. they ONLY care abourt the bottom line and reporting earnings to stockholders - no matter what the cost. When they 'take over" they clean house and "broom out" & "cut bait" a lot of employees and they usually start at the top and work their way down.
JESCUE, is your GM still there or did they "blow him out" yet. If you are a manger, I would highly recommend that you start circulating your resume ... QUICKLY. Even if you can justify your staying, it might not be a plesant experience.
Here is a port I found on Craigslist Auto Forum, in a discussion about internet sales:
Here is an idea 05/09 14:13:57
I have two boys that enjoy crusing the internet looking at cars both new and used. The have no intention of buying anything, they just like to find out what they could get a car for. They are actually just playing at buying a car. I have had salespeople call the house and ask for them, so I know what they are doing. Believe me these boys don't have a penny to spare for a car and are both driving junk.
I think it is just a game with them and of course they are not going to answer any calls or call you back.
I wonder how many of your inquiries are of this type?
"...guess how many customers we have had come in this month..."
Yikes! That's not good.
Don't your kind of customers always have money? I can't see some wealthy dude turning to his wife and saying "You know dear we only made 3 million this year. Instead of that Range Rover let's buy a Prius."
I would think it would be the same for most hi-line stores.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"...Does 2 to 3 MPG really make that much difference?..."
People are starting to panic. When that happens they don't think any more. When I noticed this morning that gas in my area had gone up almost 20 cents overnight I felt the urge to abandon my truck in the middle of the street and go looking for roller skates. :mad: :confuse: :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Here is a port I found on Craigslist Auto Forum, in a discussion about internet sales:
I think it is just a game with them and of course they are not going to answer any calls or call you back.
I wonder how many of your inquiries are of this type?
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make unless it’s that there are strokes out there playing games. I think everyone knows that. Now, as a car dealership, if you’re going to say, “that’s why I don’t care about doing business over the internet”, that is certainly you’re choice.
I was at a Christmas party just this past Christmas and there was an experienced car salesman now SM there (I think he said he was in the biz about 27 years, 20 with his present dealership). I just had to ask this guy what he thought about the Internet regarding car sales and I told him about my last two experiences. He said it’s starting to get better but it’s still a PITA and they talk about it at business meetings all the time. He said they can’t give up on it because it seems to be the way people want to buy cars today and they’re not willing to give their competition the edge by getting out of it now. He also said you wouldn’t believe how much it costs to set up a good site that is buyer friendly and to keep it up to date. That’s probably another reason why they don’t want to throw in the towel.
So, you car biz guys, is this the way you see it in your neighborhood?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I could see where a good web site would be pretty expensive to set up. I see some dealers with really good ones and other with horrible ones that are nothing more than an excuse to say "we have a web site." Saw one of those the other day. Saw a car on the actual lot and just out of curiosity went to look up the particulars. This lot wouldn't even tell you what cars they had without you filling in a thing with your phone and E-mail. No thanks. I wasn't that curious.
In general my use of Internet in buying has been shopping rather than buying mostly because that seems to be how most of the dealers work. One would have had me on the hook with a simple personal reply to an E-mail but wouldn't do it.
Not easy. Lot of distrust on both sides.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
From what I hear, the larger corporate run stores only care about shareholder results. Therefore, you are merely a pawn in their larger chess game or a cog in the wheel works. If you don't sell, their mentality is "We can find someone that can" and out the door you go.
Our store was privately owned. They sold a few years back to another private owner, who sold his other store to one of the 'big guys". Now he only owns us and another store in a southern state. Although we are privately owned, there is some big store "corporate bueracracy". Not too bad a 'culture" and the $$ is still good!!
"...I could see where a good web site would be pretty expensive to set up..."
Are you sure? Every morning when I get up at 5 AM there is an infomercial on TV staring two large breasted women with low cut tops. They say it only costs pennies to set up a web business and start making BIG, BIG, money. Maybe the car dealers should watch more TV early in the morning.
I would post more info on this but I always switch over to the "Girls Gone Wild" infomercial before I can write it down.
Or perhaps you could just hire sales staff that looked like these early morning babes. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make unless it’s that there are strokes out there playing games. I think everyone knows that. Now, as a car dealership, if you’re going to say, “that’s why I don’t care about doing business over the internet”, that is certainly you’re choice.
No, that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that if you want to be taken seriously - you have to do more than choose a model and hit "Submit". I know that everybody here know exactly what they want, and the submit detailed requests with all the information, but in real life people don't do that. People will say: "I might buy in 4 months, so just give me a quote for Audi A4", and they get offended if I don't jump over and give them a detailed quote right away.
People will say: "I might buy in 4 months, so just give me a quote for Audi A4", and they get offended if I don't jump over and give them a detailed quote right away.
Ok, I got ya now. A detailed request for info should get a detailed response.
Now, if I were in the biz, that 4 month thing would be put on the back burner for sure. If they're fishing early they wouldn't understand how the biz/product turnover/availability at the time they might decide to buy will be and they probably can't be educated to any of this. When I started via the Internet, I made it clear to the dealer that I was buying NOW.
It sounds like this type of buyer shops for cars like they shop for refrigerators.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
When I was running the internet department at my store I would send price quotes on cars that actually existed and not on dream cars that could be configured on kbb or msn but would never be built. The new GM had a problem with me giving quotes and wanted me to just get them in. I told him that what reason would they come in for if they didn't get what they asked for? Needless to say I left and went elsewhere. At the other store I would still be internet mgr. except the current GM was so far behind the times that he did not want to invest in software to handle the e-mail requests. They had R&R CRM software which IMHO is a piece of doo doo. Too complicated and it keeps you away from the floor too long. Autobase was/is very simple to use but they did away with it. At my original dealership they use R&R CRM and they finally realized it's crap and are scraping it starting monday. We are now getting the latest internet sales wonder: iMagiclab.com another web based crm. :shades:
Mack, looks like we are both quite the literary sort. I just finished my first book last year....I enjoyed it so much I think I will read another one this year.
I may have missed something in the posting, they agreed to take the fabric protection and sealant and then when they're walking out to take delivery they decided they didnt want the additions? was it just included in the deal?
Comments
Take a wild guess how many customers we have had come in so far this month.
I just got burned bad on a survey from a customer I sold two months ago. I met him and his friend a month before he came in to buy a car for his sister. I was very upfront with him when he asked me what he could buy a Yaris for. I told him that the markup was so low that it didn't matter to me if he paid sticker or invoice for it. I would still get a WHOPPING $100.00 bucks on the sale.
So to make a long story longer, he shows up one day with his sister. Really nice lady and at that time I also thought he was a really nice guy. Business owner, driving a Lexus LS, money coming out of his butt, etc...etc..
He gives me the stock number for a 4 door 5spd Yaris that retails for about $14k and change. His sister and I take it for a test drive and she is just thrilled that she is getting the car. Her credit is not that great due to a divorce so brother is co-signing for her.
We get back and ready to wrap it up. I go to the sales desk and tell the sales manager that I'm selling the car at invoice and he nods his head so we can start the day with the first deal on the board.
Mop & Glo girl comes over, gives her spiel and they end up buying the paint sealant and fabric protection. Since it's the first car of the day the detail department is not busy so they go ahead and do the paint treatment.
When I get back to the showroom, the brother is pissed and tells me he is not paying the rate they quoted him in the business office. "I have excellent credit. I don't know how my payment jumped from $200.00 a month to $310.00 a month. I'm ready to undo the deal.!" he exclaims. "Hold on, I'll go see what's up."
I go to the business office and Jenny is sitting there and I ask her what happened. "I was going over the menu with him and showed him what his payments would be with a warranty, gap, etc. and he went ballistic on me." she replies. At that moment Mr. Rickles (not his real name) walks into the room and we get back to business. I explain to him that what she did is part of her job and if they don't want any of it to just say no. He sits down and I go back to the showroom.
About 45 minutes later they come out of the business office and the car is ready to go. I get their license plates and Jenny comes over and tells me they didn't want the paint sealant and fabric protection after all and he beat her up on the rate.
We walk out to the car and and it's nice and shiny with a full tank of gas and the interior is still moist from the chemical that's used to protect the fabric.
I remind them of the survey and he tells me not to worry that I did an excellent job. His sister also smiles and tells me the same thing.
The next day I do my follow up call to see if any questions came up and if they are happy with the car.
Mr. Rickles answers the phone and when I identify myself he blows my hair back (whatever was left of it). "What's wrong Mr. Rickles? Did I do something to offend you?" I ask in a quiet tone. "I'm disappointed at you. I thought you would go into the finance office and fight for me!" :confuse: "Excuse me?" I responded. "I thought everything was fine after I went in. You guys seemed really happy yesterday." I continued. "I'm never buying a car in Tidewater anymore. All the dealers here are a bunch of crooks!" he tells me. "I'm sorry but you should have not taken the car if you weren't completely satisfied with the transaction. You may speak to our General Manager Mr. Fujimata (not his real name either)" I tell him.
"I just might do that." and he hangs up the phone.
I let my boss know and he tells me he'll be waiting for his call and also have the customer relations manager call him.
So, I don't hear anything else until today when I come in. The GSM (general sales manager who worked the deal with me) "Hey, your customer on the Yaris from a couple of months ago toasted us on the survey. Big 0" he tells me. "Really? It sure took a long time for the survey to get in. Oh well, I did my best and that's what I get. Go figure"
The End !! (Wow that's a new milestone for me! Complete story in one sitting)
We get a bunch of crazies like that here @ detail sometimes. It makes me shake my head sometimes and just go WTF?
I think you did a fabulous job, Mack!
p.s. thanks for the story! kept me occupied for a few
While not in sales or even having to deal with the public, I have had the "honor?" of seeing a few like that in action and I just want to smack them. :mad:
They tell me that some day we will reap what we sow.
Wait. What happened to the rest of the ongoing story with the Highlander? The last part to that series was back on May 5 and ended with this:
Gesell comes over and introduces herself. I leave them alone and go check on other things while she does her spiel.
She takes about 15 to 20 minutes and then leaves. I walk over and tell him Jenny is ready for him. I walk him over to the little padded room known as the "business office" and introduce him to Jenny and tell him I'll be in the showroom if they need me."
TO BE CONTINUED...............
Who's the new company?
GP
So, by Mr. Rickles thowing his little tantrum, he ended up getting the paint sealant and fabric protection for free? Not like you can scrape it back off. What a jerk who makes the rest of us consumers look bad.
Don't really understand how he got a hold of his sister's survey. He must of brainwashed (reprogrammed) her on how to fill it out.
Seriously, I hope you club the next one like a baby seal.
Thing that fuzzed me was a guy trading a C5 Vette and the dealer asking him why he was trading and he said gas mileage.
I happen to know those things get 28 hwy and 24 when you drive hard. Perhaps a few less when you try to get it airborne.
Makes no sense to me. I have a Toyota V6 getting 30.8 AVG MPG for the last 3 years and would trade for a 01 Vette all day long.
Does 2 to 3 MPG really make that much difference?
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I could pick you up on the way south and we could gang up on him, but I suppose he's been ganged-up on before. :sick:
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
I used to be willing to read the ". . . to be continued" posts until I learned that, well, they wouldn't be, at least to the end. I think it's called a happy ending, and we haven't had all that many, at least on the board here.
I don't have any idea how many of these have been left hanging/dangling/whatever, but they are legion.
Here's what you do: go to the bottom -- if it says "to be continued," don't even start.
Does that mean it will cost the dealership $25k to be certified to sell the thing too?
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
"To be Continued: The unfinished stories!"
PS. I have to write the first though. One of my boys keeps bugging me to write one.
Mack
Mack
Richard
Not at all. Knowing how frugal some people on this board are, I was simply trying to ensure that they don't attempt to write off that gift.
Richard
Richard
You're probably right but not by a formidable 2 man posse from PA like us. Whenever you're ready you know where I hang out.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Who's the new company?
If I am not mistaken Jeff's dealership has gone from being privately owned to being part of a dealer group.
Never a good thing IMO.
Staff Writer Sonic Automotive Inc., a Charlotte, N.C.-based auto dealership company, has bought the Thoroughbred Motor Cars dealership on Franklin Road for $8.5 million,
Welcome to my world
GP
OH NO.... RUN Jescue, RUN for them thar hills!!
SONIC is awful to work for, they treat their employees like dog excrement and could not care less about them. they ONLY care abourt the bottom line and reporting earnings to stockholders - no matter what the cost.
When they 'take over" they clean house and "broom out" & "cut bait" a lot of employees and they usually start at the top and work their way down.
JESCUE, is your GM still there or did they "blow him out" yet.
If you are a manger, I would highly recommend that you start circulating your resume ... QUICKLY.
Even if you can justify your staying, it might not be a plesant experience.
GOOD LUCK !!
Here is an idea 05/09 14:13:57
I have two boys that enjoy crusing the internet looking at cars both new and used. The have no intention of buying anything, they just like to find out what they could get a car for. They are actually just playing at buying a car. I have had salespeople call the house and ask for them, so I know what they are doing. Believe me these boys don't have a penny to spare for a car and are both driving junk.
I think it is just a game with them and of course they are not going to answer any calls or call you back.
I wonder how many of your inquiries are of this type?
Sounds like 80% of our traffic on a holiday weekend.
Yes, I have always supported missionary work.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yikes! That's not good.
Don't your kind of customers always have money? I can't see some wealthy dude turning to his wife and saying "You know dear we only made 3 million this year. Instead of that Range Rover let's buy a Prius."
I would think it would be the same for most hi-line stores.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Ahh not to sound too stupid but is that a good thing or a bad thing.
GOP
People are starting to panic. When that happens they don't think any more. When I noticed this morning that gas in my area had gone up almost 20 cents overnight I felt the urge to abandon my truck in the middle of the street and go looking for roller skates. :mad:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
How fast can a tug go anyway?
I think it is just a game with them and of course they are not going to answer any calls or call you back.
I wonder how many of your inquiries are of this type?
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make unless it’s that there are strokes out there playing games. I think everyone knows that. Now, as a car dealership, if you’re going to say, “that’s why I don’t care about doing business over the internet”, that is certainly you’re choice.
I was at a Christmas party just this past Christmas and there was an experienced car salesman now SM there (I think he said he was in the biz about 27 years, 20 with his present dealership). I just had to ask this guy what he thought about the Internet regarding car sales and I told him about my last two experiences. He said it’s starting to get better but it’s still a PITA and they talk about it at business meetings all the time. He said they can’t give up on it because it seems to be the way people want to buy cars today and they’re not willing to give their competition the edge by getting out of it now. He also said you wouldn’t believe how much it costs to set up a good site that is buyer friendly and to keep it up to date. That’s probably another reason why they don’t want to throw in the towel.
So, you car biz guys, is this the way you see it in your neighborhood?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
In general my use of Internet in buying has been shopping rather than buying mostly because that seems to be how most of the dealers work. One would have had me on the hook with a simple personal reply to an E-mail but wouldn't do it.
Not easy. Lot of distrust on both sides.
If you don't sell, their mentality is "We can find someone that can" and out the door you go.
Our store was privately owned. They sold a few years back to another private owner, who sold his other store to one of the 'big guys".
Now he only owns us and another store in a southern state.
Although we are privately owned, there is some big store "corporate bueracracy". Not too bad a 'culture" and the $$ is still good!!
More later.
Are you sure? Every morning when I get up at 5 AM there is an infomercial on TV staring two large breasted women with low cut tops. They say it only costs pennies to set up a web business and start making BIG, BIG, money. Maybe the car dealers should watch more TV early in the morning.
I would post more info on this but I always switch over to the "Girls Gone Wild" infomercial before I can write it down.
Or perhaps you could just hire sales staff that looked like these early morning babes. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
No, that is not what I am saying at all.
What I am saying is that if you want to be taken seriously - you have to do more than choose a model and hit "Submit". I know that everybody here know exactly what they want, and the submit detailed requests with all the information, but in real life people don't do that. People will say: "I might buy in 4 months, so just give me a quote for Audi A4", and they get offended if I don't jump over and give them a detailed quote right away.
Ok, I got ya now. A detailed request for info should get a detailed response.
Now, if I were in the biz, that 4 month thing would be put on the back burner for sure. If they're fishing early they wouldn't understand how the biz/product turnover/availability at the time they might decide to buy will be and they probably can't be educated to any of this. When I started via the Internet, I made it clear to the dealer that I was buying NOW.
It sounds like this type of buyer shops for cars like they shop for refrigerators.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
At my original dealership they use R&R CRM and they finally realized it's crap and are scraping it starting monday. We are now getting the latest internet sales wonder: iMagiclab.com another web based crm. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
will it equal the GT-R handling/times?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D