Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Stories from the Sales Frontlines
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
It was a 2008 Tucson GLS (automatic) with 20 miles, not the Santa Fe... pay attention will ya macamaybe. :P
The MSRP was $20,545 (including destination). She paid $18,300 out the door (6% Ky sales tax on list price). That a good deal mack? :surprise:
Funny thing about that. The salesman came out with a print-out with 2 columns, one showing MSRP for vehicle, a few small options... and the other column showing invoice price and invoice of the small options. The "marketing allowance" was listed in the invoice column, what we were suppose to be paying... but it was not listed in the MSRP column. So, I guess "marketing allowance" is something they only charge when they have someone paying "invoice". LOL.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The transportation is here
Close enough but not too far, maybe you know where you are
Fightin' fire with fire
Gen X reporting in... that's Talking Heads, "Burning Down The House", although from what you posted I guess they didn't write it? Don't know who did the original...
Is there gas in the car? Yes the gas in the Caar!
That one is Steely Dan's "Kid Charlemagne". What do I win?
I'm Gen X but I like a lot of the classics too. The only Steely Dan I own is Showbiz Kids, a compilation album that's great. Name this SD -- one of my faves:
'...that's what I am, please understand
I wanna be
your
holy man"
The Story... CONTINUED (within 12 hours from last post... cue mackabee) :P
My niece has stated she didn't want to pay over a certain amount for the vehicle. My advice in the beginning was get the vehicle you want at the price you want to pay. But, she looks at Kia because of the 0% financing or $2,500 rebate... and she does like the way it looked and drove during test drive.
The salesmanager says one owner owns all the local Kia stores, so we won't get a better price anywhere else. Says they dropped the $2,400 dealer add ons (pin striping, some type of lame security thing where you swipe a card over a sensor so the car will start... who's going to steal a Kia?) Says our offer is unreasonable. Asks where we get our information. We tell him Edmunds, SUV market is soft etc. They wouldn't counter, said that was the best they could do... we thanked them for their time and walked.
My niece now wanted to try the Kia Store where the salesman agreed to $250 under invoice. He's a nice guy, young, quiet... a bit robotic in his presentation of the vehicle. Says he's been at the store for a year and a half. Does not put fourth much effort to be engaging or make a connection.
So, we test drive the silver Sportage that she liked...only had 20 miles. Test drives fine, so we go in to talk numbers. Pretty much same script as in the first Kia store. Asks where did we get our information, we are too far apart. Brings out paper that shows they are giving at $250 under invoice. But, they are charging almost $900 for "marketing allowance" and doc. fee... and their invoice number is about $200 over Edmunds. Our offer had been $100 more than our best offer at previous Kia store (cue bobst). The salesguy says he is only making $100 on the deal no matter what price is agreed on, ours or the dealerships. Looks like he is wanting to cut us loose as they say in the biz. We counter $400 more. Neice tells him that's it... mmm maybe a little early for that. Sales guys come back with piece of paper, just hands it to us without saying anything. I can barely read the salesmanager scribble. Says thanks for our business but their previous offer is the best they can do, that our salesman is one of their best. We ask for some time to think over their $600 over invoice price. My niece doesn't want to pay that much. She didn't quality for the 0% financing... and doesn't care much at their lackadasical attitude. So, we thank them for their time and walk.
TO Be RESUMED...
Since you didn't actually finish that was a bit premature
So on the way out the Kia dealership she calls her Hyundai salesman and makes a $18,300 out the door offer. He says come on in so we'll talk about it. So, on our drive over she gets a call from salesman saying they accepted her offer. She asks $18,300 OTD?? That's right! So, we are all ecstatic as my niece will have her car at a price she was happy with.
The rest of the story plays without much excitement. The salesguy is a bit strange though. A nice, jolly, large fellow... sits around making small talk with us until the car is prepped and the F&I guy is ready... about an hour. But, out of the blue he comes over to me and starts talking about refurbrished printers?? I'm left wondering whether the man has had a stroke or is suffering from some early form of dementia... he's about 60 years old. He does mention though that my niece will be getting a survey from Hyundai, and says he needs a perfect score. Says he has a 100% satisfaction rating and would like to keep it that way. Says if we had any problems with our buying experience to let him know. We reassure him that her experience has been 100% positive.
F&I goes fairly smooth. My niece takes the $2,000 rebate and finances through her own bank at 6% for 5 years. The F&I guy offers gap insurance for $400, my niece says she will think about it. No pressure from the guy, doesn't try to pull any fast ones... a nice friendly guy. Doesn't try to sell niece extended warranty or any of the other mop n glow stuff... which I found a bit odd. In and out of F&I within 20-30 minutes.
All in all I would say it was a pleasant, professional, though exhausting, experience. No slimy salesmen... or overt underhanded tricks. The "marketing allowance" and high doc. fee the Kia store wanted to charge cost them some business. But, I don't fault them for that to much... they charge what they want to charge... we'll pay it or we won't.
I do wonder if we started to low on the price of the
Kia, but from what I've read here it was a do-able price. Anyway... hope you guys enjoyed the 3 part story I've completed within 12 hours (now cue macamaybe, verdugo). You may now carry on with the current thread of "NAME THAT TUNE!" :sick:
They run those loud annoying kia commercials on the radio almost nonstop. But, I see anything like advertising or doc. fees as negotiable. We were willing to throw a hundred or two into that pot... but not eight.
Jipster is TOO informed TO pay TOO much for a car.
Got it?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Here's the story, verbatim (it took a couple of posts)...
Someone asked if any of us buyers have any stories where it didn't turn out as a "happy ending" on a car purchase.
These boards are littered with them. But, we all learn from our mistakes.
Briefly, I've been burned by my share of deals (how else do you learn how to avoid the pitfalls). Some of them by private sellers....some from dealerships.
I've bought "mop and glo" for the way inflated prices. I even bought a previously "wrecked" NEW Datsun (that's right, Datsun) 280Z for full tilt MSRP plus "dealer installed options".
On the Z, I made all the mistakes. Fell in love with the car. Didn't shop around. Bought it from a High School "friend" (who I was sure wouldn't screw me) who was working in sales at the dealership. That friend/sales person was a girl I used to date in high school (I thought we parted on good terms).
Ended up, right before I was to take delivery of the Z, the day after I put a deposit down on it, I noticed the car had major swirls in the paint that weren't there the day before (when I test drove it). The car also smelled like body shop (you know the smell).
I asked my "friend" what the swirls were all about when I came to take delivery of the car. She said they probably just used a "dirty" pad when putting on the "mop and glo". She said she'd schedule an appointment with the detail guys to get it cleaned up. But, I had to take delivery of the car that day. I agreed.
Fast forward a couple of weeks. I'm at the dealership's detail dept (which was the same as the body shop) getting the swirls removed. One of the detail guys asks me why I bought this particular car, as it had been in a wreck (reminder, this was a new car).
After quizzing him about the alleged wreck, he reluctantly told me he thought this was a car that had been taken on a test drive (supposedly, after I left my deposit on it). The test driver side swiped another car at an elevated speed. The whole passenger side had to be redone. He remembered it because my friend/sales person brought the car into the body shop and asked if they could repair it in a day. They did....just in time for me to take delivery of it, the next day.
My friend sales person was off that day. But, she was still living with her parents. I had spent many a day/night at their home. I called her at home and quizzed her about the detail guy's story. She assured me that my car wasn't the car he was talking about. Of course, I believed her.
They didn't do a very good job on the swirls. I just wanted that car so badly, I figured I could buff them out myself (I couldn't). Drove it home.
A couple of years later, the paint was peeling off the passenger side. I took it into an independent body shop to see what a repaint would cost, since the car was out of warranty by this time. And, my sales friend had long since left the dealership. Dealership I bought it from had since been sold to someone else, who claimed no knowledge of my "issue". The independent shop asked what kind of accident I had been in. I told them no accident. They proceeded to show me all the overspray, the bondo, and the remnants of the body work.
5 years later, at a HS reunion, I ran into my "friend". I asked her about the Z. She laughed and said I was her highest gross on any car she ever sold. She thought it was funny. I didn't.
That was my big lesson in learning who to trust...who not to trust.
Last I heard, after bouncing around just about every dealership in SW OH, she ended up selling used cars in Miami.
Anyone who lives down there, her name is Elaine. Stay away.
Elaine....well, what can I say. She was drop dead gorgeous. I was in way over my head when we dated in high school. As these things go, she was the kind of person you had a lot of fun with, and got into a lot of trouble with. Not a girl that you consider a "life long partner" (or, even a month long partner).
I went off to college. She stayed around home to sell cars. Our lives had just gone in different directions. I changed. She didn't.
Yes, I broke up with her during one of her visits to my dorm, freshmen year. I just couldn't take her Jekyl and Hyde act, anymore. She left crying. Sent me crazy letters, afterwards. She actually stalked me for a bit...would make the long drive to my college and show up at all hours...all crazy. Threatened to kill me, whomever I was dating, herself (I never took her seriously...probably should have, though). After a few months of that, it subsided. But, in the end she said she knew it was for the best (or, so I thought).
Yes, there was drinking involved at the reunion. Her "psycho" side was always magnified when you threw alcohol into the mix. She was always the person that went "way over the line" when drinking. I was always the conservative one. She said I was the only person that ever broke up with her (usually, she was the heartbreaker).
The positive/sad end of that, she told me at the renunion she wasn't able to have kids. That's probably a good thing.
You guys know how that goes, though. Fun girl....tons better looking than I was. You put up with a lot of crap for all the obvious reasons.
She actually threw up at the reunion.
She was a mess, at that time....and obviously, vindictive.
Ah....what fond memories...... :sick:
Goodness, GG! You dated Deskman in HS!!! :P
You are far from alone as I, too, was/am a fool for a pretty face (both cars and women)... :sick:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
On another note....jipster....aren't the KIAs and competing Hyundai models clones? I've seen a slow shift of dealerships to make up for the profit lost on the purchase, to making it up on "add-ons" and fees here the last couple of years.
At my local Chevy dealership, I note when I take my Tahoe in for oil changes, that just about every car and truck they have on the lot has some sort of custom wheels and cladding (with an addendum sticker for said items). In my mind, that's a tough sell on a Hyundai or Kia.
Fees are probably the easiest sell for the dealership. They've already made the sale. I know of people who think it's a done deal BEFORE they go into F&I. I'd bet most don't even question excess dealer fees once they're sitting in F&I.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"You can check out anytime you like, but you may never leave" :P
We all come back eventually.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Funny you mention that. My Mitsu guy was so laid back that he never said anything about the car at all. I could have known more than he did. I wonder about that now.
Let me ask you, if you had a customer who was considerably older than you (say 25 years or more) would you treat him differently than someone your own age?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That's leaving on good terms? I guess if she'd been upset we would have read about you in the newspapers.
When I was 19 I briefly dated a go-go dancer ( yea, that's what they called them back then) It didn't end as badly as yours did. In fact I got a puppy out of the deal. The dog was loyal for a lot longer than the girl.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
When I see a vehicle I know isn't a hot seller with a large ADM sticker, I simply leave. It's a clear indication of a dealership that would use "old school" sales tactics and would be a complete waste of my time. They may be willing to drop the ADM sticker, but only God knows what kind of other BS fees, games, and add-ons will be pushed. Not worth my time.
You'll never do it without your fez on. Royal scam
Great song.
"
You may now carry on with the current thread of "NAME THAT TUNE!"
Most gracious M'lord.
So you're not in car sales? Somehow I got the impression that you and your alter ego dino were. Engineers probably.Paralysis
through analysis. Meant in a kindly way. Being in retail in another industry , I can relate to other retail.
jkinzel:
What about "10 cc" Explain that to the kids.
I'd rather not , thankyouverymuch.
GG, great stories on your former psycho girlfriend. A great contribution, thanks.
Now to add to sales.....
Please retail sales, lose "how much do you want to pay "
It is not a valid open ended question that will allow further conversation. Instead it invokes, "well ,I want to pay zero "
Is that reasonable ? And furthermore paints you as a hack salesman. A good salesman's customers will follow him no matter where he goes, Within reason!
For my latitude challenged friends, lmao.
Now that the years gone by
Yeah, now that I'm on my own
Saw you just the other day
Oh my, baby you have grown
Cast my memory back there, Lord
Sometimes I am overcome just thinkin' 'bout it
Makin' love in the green grass
Behind the stadium with you
Enjoy your vacation.
Richard
It is a good thing that I read all of today's posts first. I was going to tell you not to encourage Mack to return to his old ways. You did well in completing your three part series in less than 12 hours.
BTW, I have been awake since 5am this morning, so I was not goofing off on the job here. I have been doing a consulting job out of town this week. My 90 minute drive each way, plus standing on my feet for 8 hours is becoming pretty tiring. At least tomorrow is the last day, and the reward is my big check. :surprise:
I read your three installments regarding your niece. I have one question. Did someone have to sign for her at the bank? See my post from last night.
Richard 64
President, Scroll Keeper
Nahh, I work with psychotic and mentally disturbed children. A career switch to car sales probably wouldn't be much different than what I do now. But, I just like to lurk in the shadows here and correct our sales friends when they screw up.
Yeah, now that I'm on my own
Saw you just the other day
Oh my, baby you have grown
Cast my memory back there, Lord
Sometimes I am overcome just thinkin' 'bout it
Makin' love in the green grass
Behind the stadium with you
Van Morrison.....Brown Eyed Girl.......circa 1967
Stayed awake for that one....
Right on, Mein keeper of the scrolls, Lord high guardian of the grammar. After all it is a man's perogative to change his mind. But should the question ever be , do these pants make my butt look big? The correct response other than an emphatic no is while still gasping is of course not, don't be ridiculous. Mimicing Redd Foxx in the "big one sketch". Go go dancer? I can dig it.
You now owe five of these. :surprise:
Don't forget that you haven't finished the Jim Gridell story. How many times must I tell you?!
BTW, when addressing a person at the beginning of a sentence, use a "," after the person's name. Secondly, "winners" is a plural noun. You don't need an apostrophe there. :shades:
Richard
Richard
I am sure someone else already got it.... :shades:
Please retail sales, lose "how much do you want to pay "
It is not a valid open ended question that will allow further conversation. Instead it invokes, "well ,I want to pay zero "
I hate using that one myself but basically resot to it when all else fails.
I basically give a small discount and get a response that they have to think about it. That is when I think negotiations start.
I I ask what do you have to think about the car or the money... it is always the money.
Instead of "how much do you want to pay?"
I ask well how close can you come to this number.... :shades:
GP
You really are a card. I would never have the heart to correct your grammar. Your language is in a class all its own. :P I do enjoy reading your posts. :shades:
Level: Too easy to ask
Where have all the flowers gone?
Long time passing.
Where have all the flowers gone?
Long, long ago.
Richard
GP
Out and about this evening, and on a local road was a car on the shoulder, with the driver (younger blond woman) putting in gas out of a red can. So obviously, she ran out of gas, right? (duh!)
No, the joke isn't that she was blond. The car was a Prius!
Guess the sneaky Toyota salesman told her you never need to put gas in it!
Wonder how far she made it on just the battery? She was on a fairly steep uphill portion of the road, only about 1/2 mile over the top to a gas station!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I had to deal with some of those types of kids in my job, although the majority of the kids I had were just your garden variety punks or the natural result of over-protective and/or permissive parenting.
And people ask why I took early retirement...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Richard
Give me a break Rich. Yesterday I was not feeling myself at all. This first round of chemo put me in the dark. Couldn't see straight, couldn't walk straight, and I had a hard time keeping my hands on the keyboard.
Mack
Mackabee :shades:
What little I watched of it had them doing their radio show and answering actual car questions all while picking their toes or pulling fleas off their dog.
I guess kids will watch anything. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
In small doses, she was fine. If you dug just a little deeper, you got what Paul Harvey would call "the rest of the story", which wasn't so engaging, and down right psychotic.
25 years ago, when this little episode took place, I was fresh out of college, got my first post college job where I was making some real money, and it was burning a hole in my pocket. Those of you who were around at that time remember the 280Z. It was a period when the fabled "Z" car was more flash than sport. And, they sold like hot cakes at a Kiwanas breakfast. Forget that they had a very bad habit of rusting terribly (3 years into my ownership, the wheel wells had rust holes in them the size of a midwestern pothole in January). Forget that it had become a cruiser instead of a card carrying sports car. It still had that turbine like motor. And, it was as luxurious as any lux car on the market at the time.
Elaine's dealership had the only one around my 'burg in the color I wanted (the ever popular bronze and gold two-tone with brown leather on the inside). Stick shifts were also tough to come by (most were sold with automatics). That's what she had. That's what I wanted.
"Surely, she wouldn't hold a grudge for years" was my thought at the time. In truth, she was just doing her job. Make as much as she could, and use all of her "special gifts" to do it.
The point of the post, at the time, there wasn't the information available about hold back, invoice prices, fees and add-ons, etc as their is today. Maybe it was available, but back then, I certainly didn't know where to find it. At best, you could guess how much wiggle room there was on the car. But, it was just that....a guess.
Add to that, I was a young early 20-something at the time and thought I knew everything, anyway. Glad I made my car buying mistakes early in life. I certainly learned from all of them.
Funny, when I relayed helping a friend buy an Accord a few weeks ago, I couldn't help overhear a young guy on the lot trying to buy a Civic Si. Salesman asked him what he wanted his payments to be. The young customer went right along with it. He committed all the "sins". Fell in love with the car. Negotiated payments. Accepted the "chrome wheels" (on a Civic?) add on. If I had to guess, he accepted the "mop & glo" and extended warranty when he got to F&I, too.
Since he was at the next table and the salesperson got up to "talk to his manager", I thought about intervening and setting him straight. Then I thought "Naw....he won't learn until he makes the mistakes."
I kept my seat and just listened.
They have a big white board in the "tower" that shows the percentage of discount, on each model, that Edmunds states the customer can expect for the area.
Of course, I ignore that and still make my "one offer" based on what I think the car should sell for. But, it's a novel approach if someone wants to sit down and do a little "back and forth" negotiations.
The dealership uses a respected 3rd party authority to set the price. The salesperson can just point to the board and say "this is what Edmunds says the car should sell for". Of course, none of that takes into account the dealer installed equipment, back end fees, or the add-ons like "lifetime" sealant, etc.
Funny what we consider "OK" as far as a mate is concerned as we get "more experience".
I play on an "over 35 league" softball team. We had a game last night. It was sweltering around here, and an ice cold beer after the game was one of life's little pleasures. Anyway, we were all having some refreshments after the game. We were talking about how hot, sweaty and dirty we all were.
A "young thing" (20, maybe 21) happened to over hear our conversation. We didn't know her. But, she interjected that she "liked hot, sweaty and dirty". Then she winked at us and walked away without saying another word.
You would have thought Paris Hilton had asked us to make a movie with her the way we acted after that little comment.
Guys.....we can be so shallow, sometimes!
-moo
Was it "Cash"? Greenbacks? If so, that would make a little more sense. Someone took it. They need to start looking at their employees for what happened that evening.
Contact the cops.
-moo
Do you mean the coworkers or the customers!!!
Glad you saw the humor in that one imidazol. But yes, I think that it (coworkers or customers?) could go either way... don't you? :shades:
You should have demanded a receipt.
If you paid with cash, I would get the police involved if they do not solve the problem by opening Saturday morning or even noon today.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I apologize Mack. As usual, it was only meant in fun. I do realize how sick you have been. I would be the last to cause you extra stress.
Richard
Wow...I never thought i will hear that term again.....So what do they call them now?
I'm only playing along, jips. I know Richard appreciates it.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper