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Excellent point, Q. Both of our BMWs were purchased used, and I would argue BMW typically has decent (relatively speaking) resale value. Even for models which typically have good resale value, you can find a good deal on used models, if you have some time on your side.
But it took us awhile to get to this point. There was a time we were nervous about buying used cars. What is the history of this car? What gremlins are infested in this car? Did the previous driver take good care of it? I bet he/she didn't treat it as good as I would! These were some of our thoughts...
There were other reasons for us to buy "new" -- especially when we looking for a family SUV.
During the late 90's and early 00's, the industry experienced a very dynamic SUV market. In my opinion, there were two major developments within our SUV market which focused our attention away from the available used models:
1) One was the development of the smoother riding and better handling (for urban use) car-based unibody SUV. These new platforms also provided better ergonomics and slightly better fuel economy. So, instead of buying a used Explorer or 4Runner, we decided to shop crossovers, such as the newly-introduced MDX and Highlander. These models were much more tuned to our lifestyle.
2) More and more of the new SUV models were incorporating key safety features. The late 90's saw new features to SUVs such as front passenger air bags, more commonly available anti-lock brakes, and traction control. The early '00 models introduced side curtain airbags and dynamic stability control, for example. The '03 introduction of the XC90 took safety yet one step further. Safety was always important to us. Hence, we weren't too excited about buying a used SUV when we knew we could purchase a new model which was arguably much safer to drive -- even though we hoped we would never NEED those features!
One might argue new models will always have some new features not found on 2 or 3 year-old models, but unlike the new features/platforms developed during the years '99 thru '04, I haven't seen any new features of importance to me, lately.
So..., I now find the used market quite appealing!
For someone that finances 100% or so of the purchase price, then GAP would cover the big GAP between value and balance for at least the first couple of years of a loan. A lot of these folks are probably $2-5K upside-down on their loans for the first half. It is Insurance in case the worse happens.
I would recommend a trade or downpayment in sufficient amount to make GAP unnecessary. But even sometimes circumstances overcome good planning. Say the poor chap that put a couple grand down on a Tahoe/Yukon/Expedition/Durango a year ago. Values have fallen a lot more in the past year than you could have imagined, so the expected little or no gap between value and loan balance is now a real GAP. Worse case happens and it gets totaled. Now you have to pull a couple grand out of back pocket/savings somewhere to cover the gap. Those who can cover that without much problem can do without GAP. Those who are running a little close to the edge really need GAP to protect what they have little of, money.
All GAP offers I have seen so far (before that value crash) were total waste of money. It was something like $10-20/month fo 60-72 month loans on less than 20K vehicles (total over say $600-1200) that would buy you a coverage of market price difference. Maximum payout a few grand, say three (remember insurance usually pays more than dealer's trade-in), and that only witin first couple of years of the loan (as it gets paid off, the negative equity goes down). I wouldn't call that a good deal. I would rather put money down, keep it in the bank, or spend on overpriced coffee.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Any one who's opinion of me changed because of what kind of car I drove is someone who's opinion I don't care about. :mad:
For many years I've driven junks and vehicles which were chosen for their utility. A few people looked down on me because of this. I usually tried to park my junk next to their fancy "ego mobile" just to cheese them off. :sick:
Now that I have a new car I do notice that some folks seem impressed. I park my new car far away from them. They're the ones who would ding my nice ride out of envy. :shades:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Certainly the best decision from a money standpoint. Although you have to have the ability to determine if the previous owned used the car in a demo derby for those 30K miles.
I've had good luck on most of the cars I've bought used but I'm always afraid I don't have the expertise to always pick a winner.
And then there's the emotional factor. I can't deny there is a certain lure to having a "virgin" vehicle that someone else has not "had there way with".
Sometimes your emotions can overwhelm your good sense.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
...or maybe business is so slow that they are all on their knees begging Joe Grinder for a sale and can't reach the keyboard.
Anyone want to guess?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I must say - I do like those toys myself and would not mind having one - but I usually don't extend my impression on the person who drives it until I find out who that really person is...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Now that is the way a deal is supposed to sound. It sounds like you got a good deal. You got a quote over the phone and everything was what they said it was. :shades:
GP
No begging required. I never beg. Instead I come up with new marketing strategies if my leads dry up.
Last month I was a bit choked because a guy that worked with us, left after 2 months here and went back to his old Chrysler dealer across town, and spilled many of my succesfful strategies that I use on craigslist to his buddy.
Now his buddy over there was copying my style of ads for a while. He still does. :mad:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
There's quite a brouhaha over on the Accord threads regarding their cylinder activation/deactivation technology....VCM. "
GG: I haven't been following the Accord discussions. Generally speaking, from what you know, what is your own opinion of the VCM feature? Generally "good"? Concerned?
As you pointed out, maybe some of the complaints are from drivers who don't fully understand it?
However, if you suspect this is a feature you DON'T want, then you should look into the 2-door coupe version, if you haven't already. I believe the coupe does not implement this technology. I'm guessing you already know this, but I mentioned it just in case...
I have NEVER, ONCE felt this so called problem and our Service Dept. has had no complaints from any customers.
I have tried my best to feel this in the V-6 Accords I've driven and I feel nothing!
A tempest in a teapot if you ask me!
" Honda doesn’t think that their cars need road side assistance, but Acura does. All Acura cars come with 4yr/50mi road side assistance standard. As matter of fact that service is so great, that my salesman was trying to convince me that I should extend it for another three years for a nominal fee of $450. After that they were trying to sell me AcuraCare warranty that includes road side assistance. Go figure! I am so confused; I think should have purchased both products. " I'm quite impressed with Acura products. Have never owned one but great gas mileage with performance characteristics aren't half bad.Nice to hear that they added roadside assistance as a freebie for 4yr/50,000.
What is this world coming to? It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for ...... I find myself not only agreeing with Jipster but laughing at his humor. Reboot! Verily you should use an outside source for a comparison of value. AAA gold or platinum would indicate the maximum you would pay for a comparable service.
Note on Gap insurance, very clever those insurance guys. They've been burned before and learned. 150% gives you exposure but not major meltdown.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read on the Internet?
No, of course not. In fact I was agreeing with you. I see the type of car buyer you describe all the time. They buy cars they can't afford so that they can look down on others.
Their opinion I don't value, yours I do.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If the car is worth $18K, then the total reimbursement won't exceed $27K... If you had a loan for $28K, then insurance would pay $18K, GAP would pay $9K, and you'd have to come up with the other $1000...
A better example is: You buy a car for $25K, roll in $2K of taxes, $2K of warranty, and $3K of negative equity.. Now, you owe $32K... Six months later, you total it, and the insurance company values it at $19K...
Still.. chances of 150% not covering it seem small... unless you bought a big gas-guzzling SUV last year... or a Kia.
regards,
kyfdx
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Many years ago there was a car company that had in its advertisement something like "If a car improves your position among your neighbors then you live among snobs".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I don't think Hyundai owners need worry about that....
I don't think Hyundai owners need worry about that....
I don't know, I've driven many cars - some owned, some borrowed/rented, etc. It was not until I bought my Hyundai that I got so many consistent compliments on my car. Everyone who sees it or gets in it marvels at it's refinement and class.
To stay on topic, I bought this from a dealer (dealer A),who had to procure it from another dealer (dealer
All right, I'm done for now!
The dealer let me take it home to show my wife. Well, when she started complaining about the car as she walked into the garage, I knew I was toast but did not give up immediately as my pride was at stake.
We took a quick spin around the block with her driving. One foot on the gas and the other one on the brake, etc. Amongst other complaints she observed that it drove kind of jerky and I had to agree. :sick:
Then she climbs into the passenger seat and wails, "Oh No, this seat sits so low that I am feeling claustrophobic and on the verge of having a panic attach". She won't even go for a ride so I take the car back to the dealer and apologize for wasting their time.
Later, I am relating this story to our grown son and telling him I don't know why some cars give her a panic attack. He grins and says, " That's easy, anything that costs less than 50 grand"! Gotta love her!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I don't get that but mine is an older Hyundai (MY 2000) and Hyundai has made vast improvements in refinement. What I get complements on is how well the car is still running after 8 years and over 152K miles, and how little issues I have had with it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Mine has a panic attack at anything over $25,000. We save for a car and then she gets upset at the thought of having to give all that money just to buy a car.
I thought that's what it was for :confuse:
Put a "for sale" sign in it with no price. No sooner had I done that and there was a couple looking at it as I returned to the parking lot from a jaunt to Krogers. He told me his wife was looking at new ones equipped like mine. His wife asked me if mine was an '08 (guess I did a fair job on my detail). After letting them sit in it and start it up, play with the stereo and the i-drive (she actually liked that feature), he asked "how much?". I said, "$28K will do it". After a little "well, that's more than we want to spend....we really wanted new, blah, blah, etc" I told them I just put it up for sale and wasn't in any hurry to part with it. He then asked for a test drive. I told him I was pressed for time as I was expecting company at home, but he was welcome to follow me back to my house. He asked if his wife could drive it back with me in the passenger seat. I don't know if that's something I would have done in his shoes, but I agreed.
Small talked with the wife for the 5 mile treck back to my house. She had a Jaguar X. It was in the shop a lot. She always wanted a BMW....etc. I could tell she liked it from all "wows" and "ooohs" she was saying inadvertently. Had her punch it a couple of times to hear and feel the typical BMW engine. Kind of the icing on the cake was when I got a call on my bluetooth phone through the speakers. It was my girlfriend calling to remind me to go to Krogers to pick up hors d'oeuvres (one step ahead of 'ya, dear) for the party we were planning at my house.
Got back home. He asked his wife what she thought. She gushed. He offered $26K. I repeated $28K. Said he wanted to take it to his mechanic. Told him I couldn't go with him since I was expecting company. Got a little nervous as he was gone for awhile and left his wife and 5 Benjamins with me as collateral. Fortunately, I knew the mechanic he was taking it to.
He returned with a "thumbs up" from the mechanic. We did the negotiation dance for about another 20 minutes. By this time, my girlfriend was "bonding" with his wife (God love her, she did her part) telling her how I was meticulous about maintenance and washing it every week....how I never drove it hard (yeah, right!).
I had friends arriving for our little soiree, by this time. Told him if he was really interested, we could continue tomorrow (today). He asked if $26.5K would do the deal "now"?
"I'm interested in selling it, but I've got guests here and really should get inside and entertain them. Let's talk tomorrow, if you'd like."
Got him and his wife in "buy mode" now, so I thought perhaps I shouldn't let them leave, even though my girlfriend was getting impatient entertaining alone.
I said, "OK, let's wrap this up at $27K and everyone's happy."
He countered with $26,700.
"Tell you what, I just gave this car, which the mechanic blessed, and I've got all the paperwork for, a personal $200 detail. I'll consider the detail to be a discounted service for $150. $26,850 is it....that's all there is."
The guy's wife blurts out...."We'll take it".
Husband wanted to horse trade some more, I could tell. But, that was the end to that session.
The guy peels off another round of $500.
"I really have to get to my guests. Let's finish this up tomorrow."
Early this a.m. (around 8:30) they show up at my door. My head is a little fuzzy as I survey the cleanup job that has to be done from the party (honey, can you clean this up? I have to go finish this deal). He's got a cashier's check for the balance. We get to the BMV, transfer the title. They give me a ride home and drive away happy campers.
On the other hand, I return home to "harrumphs" by the girlfriend as she's just finishing clean up duty. I did bring Starbucks back for her, though....
Say what?????????????
No kidding. The other day I took my kids to Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom Splash Park. Guess how much a large beer was... go ahead... guess! Nope... it was eight dollars and ninety nine cent.
Now you're probably thinking it must be one of those big 1 liter jobs.... wrong, it was a lousy 14 ounce cup. Needless to say,despite the heat and humidity, they weren't going to gyp the jip. Paid $3.99 for a large cherry coke... not quite the same, but still refreshing.
Along the same line of unbeliveables, I had the kids over in Hooks Lagoon. A smorgashboard of various water sprays, jungle gyms, water slides, and a 500 gallon bucket that empties every 5 minutes or so. Now, this attraction is mostly for younger kids, around 5 to 12 years old, though there is no age restriction.
This older gentleman, had to be at least 70, was in line with the small kids waiting to go down a water slide. He started out and went about 2 feet before stopping. Using his hands he pushed himself down another couple feet before stopping. Apparently his swim trunks were about as old as he was, and had lost all capacity to behave in a frictionless manner. The poor old guy had to butt scoot down about 200 feet of water slide. :sick:
I find myself not only agreeing with Jipster but laughing at his humor. Reboot!
I knew you'd come around. Some members try to run and hide from the jipster... but there is no escape. :P
Not quite as on topic, but the Street Rod Nationals are in Louisville this week. Over
11,000 hot rods coming and going from the state fairgrounds all day long. I live fairly close to the fairgrounds, so I think I've seen just about every one... saving myself the $14 admission charge in the process. Makes it difficult to get into a restaurant during the week, but very cool looking at all the brightly colored paint jobs and expensive machinery. My son asked me why they don't make cars like that anymore, "uhhhhh.... ask your mom."
Wow, that's pretty hardcore. Where you hoping the guy wouldn't return?
They say you're first offer is usually your best. Sounds like you did pretty good. Admit it... it's fun buying and selling.
Say what?????????????
I know that sounds strange, but here's what I meant. It was difficult to find this model with said color combo and equipment. I treated the deal like any other car because it was not a combination of options and colors that was popular. I may have actually been the only person in the state looking for this exact car. I consider myself fortunate to have found it, but that was not going to encourage me to pay more than the car was worth.
Hope that clears it up.
Rookie mistake on her part.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I have news for you Jip. If you paid $3.99 for a coke, you were gyped.
Maybe so but not as bad as paying $1.25 for a bottle of water. l'll never do that but I wish I was the one who thought of selling a mouthful of water for the prices they get for it. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
" Mine has a panic attack at anything over $25,000. We save for a car and then she gets upset at the thought of having to give all that money just to buy a car.
I thought that's what it was for :confuse:
God Bless a frugal wife !
Richard
I split a gut on that one. I could just see him doing this.
Richard
Ya Duke, it could be the other way around, and I could have nothing.
I love her dearly, but sometimes you wonder. :surprise:
It takes time, but I can talk her down, slowly prying her white fingers from the check book.
It’s over and we are leaving the dealership and she turns to me white faced and says “what have we done”? well ahhh , we bought a car.
It has been a couple of days now, reality is setting in and she is accepting rather well.
Wow- a DMV for Beemers only. Im impressed!
I dont post here too often anymore...but werent you an early adopter on the
RX-8?
Yes, I was an early adopter of the (then) new RX8. I think I had the first one in the city. Got caught up in the "overstated horsepower" debacle by Mazda when they first came out. They had an "oopsy" moment and were buying back a lot of cars back then. To this day, the RX8 was the very BEST handling car I've ever driven (yes, even better than the BMW). Shifting, steering, ride/handling were all top notch. Zinging that car to the 9K redline is a real adrenaline rush (even though you HAVE to do that to get any power out of it). If Mazda can ever figure out how to get decent MPG out of the rotary, they might have something.
Right now, there's a well used Hyundai Elantra with close to 100K miles on it that my son drives in the household. It's been a great car for him. It's got some work that needs to be done and, no fault of the car, is beginning to look a little "ratty" (starting to rust around one of the wheel wells). If my son would wash it once in a while and cleared out 5 years of accumulated junk out of the back seat, it would look a whole lot better. Still, he's been meticulous about taking care of maintenance. Not because its a bad car, but strictly because it's a Hyundai, it isn't worth all that much.
I've got an '07 Tahoe that I used to use for towing See Doos and boat equipment with. The See Doos and boat are gone. So, while it served a good purpose for a couple of years, I use it for general "car duty" now. For that, it's not very good. That said, the General really got their act together with these SUVs. It's put together well. Nice materials throughout. No squeaks. No rattles. It's seen more than its fair share of being submerged over its wheel wells with nasty OH river water. And, there isn't a better vehicle for trudging through snow, and salty slush in the winter time. Its never hiccuped. It's never been in the dealer service dept for anything other than oil changes and tire rotations.
So, am I shopping? Yep! I know some will consider it heresy, but I'm looking seriously at Accords. I've test driven the '08 version 3-4 times. I helped a friend buy one. These, IMHO, are mighty fine cars. They handle really well (for what they are). I've driven all flavors. My favorite is the 190 HP I4 version. It's lighter than the V6, and dare I say it, it feels more "tossable". It holds a line really well through the twisties. Comfortable on the highway. Just all around a nicely engineered car. That's amazing given that it's a FWD car. Honda has found a way to eliminate torque steer. It's every bit as nice as an Acura. Looks to have all the features, too.
I've driven an Infiniti G35 and an EX 35. EX 35 interior is very nice. No doubt about the overall goodness of the 3.5 motor. But, giving a nod to the current gas situation, you've got to feed it premium fuel. That was a little bit easier to swallow in my BMW, as it routinely got better than 20 MPG. From what I've heard, you're hard pressed to get that in any Nissan or Infiniti product with the 3.5. EX 35 makes me think "why bother". It's a small station wagon with not a lot of room.....anywhere. Nissan seems to be filling their cars with a lot of tech wizardry. Don't know that it's "good tech". For example, pushbutton start. Had that in the BMW. Give me a key to twist anyday over push button start.
Audi A3 I've driven a couple of times. Can't help but feel "why buy an Audi" when I can get the same thing in a VW. That turbo motor is nice and torquey, though. Can't help but feel Audis (and VWs) are overpriced especially compared to other cars with lesser nameplates.
Drove a CTS yesterday afternoon. Nice cars. A little too "glitzy" for me. No matter how far GM has come in the quality and build dept, they still have a tough time getting their "high tech" ducks in order. The one I drove had a Navi. GM still lags far behind other manufacturers when it comes to their operation and usefullness of "gadgetry". Plus, I still find the Caddy dealers around me to be clueless. Still have a bad taste in my mouth about Cadillac. Make no mistake, the dealers I talked to are hurting. Piles of Escalades and whatever it is they call their pickup trucks. Even a lot of CTSs piling up.
Ford's got nothing I like with the exception of a King Cobra. They're holding onto them thinking it's the one last car they've got bringing decent margins. Challenger is interesting. But, Chrysler's got the same thing going on with it as Ford does with the Cobra.
So, right now, it's a horse race between an Accord and an Infiniti G. Although my Chevy dealer is salivating over discounting a Malibu to death. Trying hard to love that car, like plenty of others, but I just can't bring myself to do it.
I think that answers all the questions.
They say you're first offer is usually your best. Sounds like you did pretty good. Admit it... it's fun buying and selling.
Jipster....the wife was actually quite nice....I'd say late 30s, early 40s...pretty. Much more pleasant than he was. He was about my age (mid-late 40s, maybe?). I thought he was a little overbearing (bordering on being a blow hard), especially when he talked to his wife. It was almost like "little lady, this car buying is 'man's' work. I'll handle this". He shot a dirty look to her when she agreed to the deal.
On the way to transfer the title, he kept asking me if I'd negotiate more. He wanted me to return one of his greenbacks to him. I told him I'd return all of his deposit back to him. All he had to do was take me home to retrieve it and I'd take the keys back from him. He then wanted me to "fudge" the selling price so his taxes would be reduced. I told him I didn't do business that way, and that a "deal is a deal". She finally piped up and very curtly said to him "quit it". That was the end to that.
Yeah, it was fun doing a little "give and take". As I'm sure most of the sales people here will attest to, doing a deal has its own dynamic....a little ebb and flow. He tried to act disinterested in the car, but you can tell when someone's really interested. He kept walking around the car, touching it, looking underneath it, staring under the hood (like he knew exactly what he was looking at :P ). He was really interested in how the bluetooth worked (as was his wife). Go figure...you've got one of the finest examples of a sports sedan on the market, and he's more interested in bluetooth than anything else. So, the more questions he asked, the more I knew I had his attention. His motivation was his want of showing me how he knew to negotiate. OK....if that's "your thing", I'll play along. I was willing to sit on the car for awhile, and told him as much.
He also made it a point to tell me he was a successful business owner (some kind of reseller for industrial pipes...I really didn't understand what it was he did).
He made a big production out of pulling his wad of hundreds out of his pocket. If his wad was actually all hundreds, I'd say he was carrying $5K in cash on him. Not sure that's so smart, but what do I know. He could have had $100s wrapped around singles. Personally, I never have more than $200 on me at any given time....and even that's a rarity.
From that, I assumed he had either just come from a dealership, or was on his way to one, to pull the 'ole "I've got cash and I'm ready to deal". Either way, he was in the market to buy something. Or, maybe....he always carries that kind of cash with him.
moo....who knows? Given my employment situation, maybe I'll try my hand at it. That said, the first time I spend an hour with someone on the lot, and find out they can't get financed, I'd probably go nuclear and quit on the spot. Plus, I'd probably want to sell something I find interesting. I don't think selling Fords or Nissans would do it for me. And, I wouldn't be willing to prowl the lot waiting for an "up". No high line dealership is going to hire someone with zero car sales experience. Even you had to pay your dues at Nissan before you hooked up with Porsche.
Maybe I'll move to Vegas and work up some schmaltzy schtick at Towbin. :sick:
LOL, it seemed like a good idea at the time. The bottled water we accidently snuck in was all gone, and the kids were complaining of "dying of thirst".
Bottled water was competitively priced at either $2.99 or $3.99, I drink pool water before I pay that.
I thought I had all the bases covered going in. Had the kids eat a big lunch, accidently sneak in some water and poptarts for snack, stay 5 hours, then come home for dinner. But, I had to spring for the soda and "Aunt Betsy's Best Soft Pretzel", which was a steal at $4.79. I did have a buy 1 get 1 free coupon, which took some of the pain out of that transaction. I did get out of paying around $5.99 for those Dippin Dots ice cream pellets... son couldn't quite wear me down enough on that one.
To stay on topic, the street rod nationals leave today. See you again next year!
One of the first cars I sold the buyer asked for me to "fudge" the selling price. Not knowing any better I said it was ok with me. The car only sold for around $1,300, so he saved about $24 on what we listed as the selling price. Won't do that again as I felt "unclean" afterwards.
Great story though, thanks.
What I plan to do is to go in and look at the cars (when the dealers are not busy). I will explain the situation, and be honest. Oh, and right now, the cars in the bucket (I am all over the place) range from the Civic Si to the VW GTI and EOS, the Infiniti G, BMW 3 series, etc....
I guess the common denominator is performance....
Is this a reasonable approach?