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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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That being said, it's my hope (maybe false hope) that things stabilize with gas prices after the elections. I'll package the Tahoe and my son's current Elantra and close in on something more sporting.
Lots of good 4 bangers out there that really tip past the $30K mark.....Acura TSX, VW Jettas/Passats, even some Camries, to name a few.
This is all simply personal opinion, but I've rented a lot of cars when I used to travel for work. Just in the past year I've driven the new Malibu (nice cars, and really a good effort by the General, but the Accord is simply a better car in comparison). Rented a Passat. Nice turbo motor, but still takes premium juice. Rented both a Maxima (previous gen) and an Altima (current gen).. I'm not a fan of the CVT.
V6 Accord would cost a grand or two more. My son doesn't need a V6 (I'm sure he'll disagree with me on that point).
I'll wander over to the Subie store today to see what they've got. I expect the phone calls from all the dealerships to start here shortly as they're probably just finishing up their sales meetings.
kyfdx....that's the place....Performance. They've got '09s rolling in. They're sporting an increased MSRP of a few hundred. No incentives on them, either. As best I can tell, they're the same as the '08s. They've got NO civics to sell (guess there was quite a run on them when gas hit $4). They had one Fit, and had 3 people looking at it, just in the brief time I was there. They've got a couple of V6 Accords, but those are being driven by the GM (yes, Bob) and one of the SMs. They've got the after market wheels (not interested) and crazy looking after market grills on them, too. In general, with the exception of the Pilots and pickups (which they have a boatload of), their '08s are nearly gone.
How they dice up my offer (what amount they put as a dealer fee, and what they put as the purchase price) doesn't matter to me.
I did a cursory look at their Toyota store right next door. They had discounts, right on the windshield. Something surprising....they even had discounts on hybird Highlanders. I guess crossovers and SUVs aren't selling, regardless of whether they're hybrids. The used lot is loaded with SUV and Pickup trade-ins. They're knee deep in new Sequoias and Tundras, too.
j...I made it quite clear that my offers are "all in". I've dealt with this dealership group before, quite a bit, actually. I'm quasi-friends with the owner's daughter (who runs the stores in Columbus). They're a straight up dealer group. If I pull the trigger, I don't expect any surprises.
duke,,,,thanks for the kind words. If I can't give anything back now, while I have the time, I probably never will. I'm not alone. I've met (via these boards) some mighty fine folks here at Edmunds. Even some that love Volvos......
No game playing here on my part. I happen to know the personnel at this store. I have no reason to think they aren't being honest. But, as we all know, until money changes hands, and wheels cross the pavement, there is no deal.
ccompson.. Just did a Subaru lease at an Ohio store.. The $250 magically disappeared, when they needed it to.. to meet my price..
Not because I insisted on it... I don't care how they break it down... They just had to do it to make the numbers work...
regards,
kyfdx
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Strange how the stores would try to misrepresent the fee as required... Hmmmmm.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef10f3b/604
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Man, you are a helluva generous Dad. Can I call you dad? I'm partial to V6s (or turbo 4s and 5s), but I don't require NAV. Heck, I'd give up leather, too. Ya know what? I'd be such a considerate son that I would even settle for a 3-year-old G35 or 330i. Oooo... better yet, I heard there is an E55 with less than 40k on the clock for $19k on the CCBA board.C'mon Dad. PLEEEAASSSE!
Come to think of it .... why didn't you just give him the bimmer?? Too much car for him? Why not a 325? Would still be cheaper than the Accord.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
-$200 under invoice
-$250 doc fee goes away and is replaced by my $35
-rubber mats are worth....I dunno....being generous....maybe $100
-tint....that's another one I can't put a firm number on, but it had to cost them something....let's say another $100 since the tint kits themselves cost near that (they said it's the good stuff made by 3M...lifetime warranty, etc). It takes a couple of hours to apply it, so there's some labor involved.
That puts it roughly $400 under invoice. $400 going to the store in the form of the remainder of the holdback. Doc fee is something I can live with. Don't know what the marketing fee is they have to pay, but it's something I'm not on the hook for.
Salesman gets a "mini" for roughly 20 minutes of work, and another unit on the board.
I've set up an appointment with them this afternoon. We'll see how it plays out.
tint....that's another one I can't put a firm number on, but it had to cost them something.... let's say another $100
That's the problem I had a few weeks ago when helping my niece buy a car. I couldn't put a price on a $2,000 security system that all the local Kia dealerships had on their vehicles as add-ons. i.e You slide a little key card across a sensor and it releases a mechanism that allows you to start the car. Both dealerships said they would waive the cost for this add-on, but you know they had to add the price on somewhere else. It had to cost them something. I'm guessing the true cost to the dealership may have been about $600. That's why they wouldn't budge on their high doc. fee or marketing fee.
Better to do business at dealerships that don't play the high profit margin add-on games.
Same difference.
Nope. Cardiac arrest can be an electrical event (arrythmia) in an otherwise healthy heart. Heart attack is death of heart muscle due to interruption of the oxygenated blood supply to part of that muscle tissue.
They are related, but not the same. :sick:
Cheers!
Paul
'All' is a tricksy word. The doc fee is $100 at this Chevy joint. Might be a small-town thing.
On the Western Edge of the Buckeye State,
Mitzij
Does your natural son do this?
You wouldn't treat your kids differently, would ya Dad?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
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Which part of West Ohio? I'm in the greater Dayton area. I was wondering how many American brand deals tried applying large fees after a negotiated price. I think the last time I bought the sheet showed $50 when the dealer listed--I negotiated an out-the-door price so I didn't care how he divided it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Pulled the trigger on the Accord.
It went like this.....
Sales guy (SG)...."so GG, are you here to pick up your car?"
GG..."if according to your voice mail, we're all in agreement"
SG...."what did we agree to?"
GG...turns around to walk out...."tell me you aren't serious?"
SG....."just having a little fun...you fianancing?"
GG...."paying by check if that's alright".
SG...."Works for us...we just finished making it shiny. You want to take a look?"
GG...."sure" (sales guy takes me to the delivery driveway just in time to see the lot kid inspecting his work). We take a long hard look, around, below, both sides, front and back, both inside and out....even the rubber mats are installed (not in the trunk). Not a spot on it, in or out.
SG...."we good?"
GG...."yep"
SG...."would you please sign this stating that you've inspected the car and everything is as it should be? Did I promise anything to you that I didn't deliver?"
GG..."we're good, and 'no' everything is as we agreed, so far"
SG....."so far? What did I miss?"
GG..."are the 'money matters' in order?"
SG..."lets go talk to (the F&I guy) and get that part taken care of".
F&I...."Mr GG is the condition of the car to your satisfaction?"
GG...."yes"
F&I...."I understand you'll be writing us a check?"
GG...."yes, already got it made out for the amount we agreed to". Pulling the check out of my wallet and presenting it to him. He looks at it and stares for a moment....."something wrong?"
F&I...."well, we've got a discrepancy in what we agreed to and what this check is for"..
(I'm thinking....OK, here we go)
GG....."where is the mistake?"
F&I...."well, you agreed to pay $27,700.01. Your check is for $27,700.
GG...."can I finance $.01"
F&I....."it'll take me a little longer to draw up the loan app and paperwork, but I'm sure I can arrange it. Will that be 48 or 60 month financing?"
I chuckle. He does his obligatory "extended warranty" speech (ummmm, no thanks).
We're done in all of 5 minutes.
SG greats me to explain the features and ask "is there any reason you wouldn't give me and our store a 'completely satisfied' on any survey that comes your way?"
GG...."I will certainly do just that....thanks!".
SG...."no Mr GG......Thank you for your business!"
I look to the ground, see a penny. Give it to the sales guy and tell him to take it to F&I. "We're even".
If I have to wave anything other than the key to start the car I wouldn't want it.
You guys must frequent some pretty rough neighborhoods if you need all this fancy security stuff. I never lock the doors of my house or cars and have never had any kind of problem.
I prefer to cultivate the reputation as a crazy old coot with a gun who's drivway you don't want to go down. Cheaper than a car alarm.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I was wondering where Bobst got off to.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
kyfdx - I was referring only to sales - not sure about leasing. Some lease ads in Columbus refer to doc fees and others don't.
You did make a mistake. You posted. :P
BTW, I admitted up front that I didn't know how to spell it.
To Hosts: Thanks for the correct spelling.
Richard
Congratulations. I'm sure your son will like it.
We're done in all of 5 minutes.
Now that's what I call an in-and-out-deal. Each of the last two times I bought, the F&I guy stuttered longer than that each time I said NO THANKS.
I look to the ground, see a penny. Give it to the sales guy and tell him to take it to F&I. "We're even".
Sooo, until you found that piece of copper you were actually going to beat him out of it. Or was that the price you were going to charge him for 'playing games'. You're tough.
I know your Son will love ya more now. Enjoy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Down South, "Parts, Unknown" is just a few miles from "Over, Yonder Aways".
Richard
I started thinking about a hot compact car. First wend to a Honda dealer to look at a Civic Si...then Mazda for Mazdaspeed3...then VW for GTI, and ....
Anyway, my budget kept growing....with the GTI, I had the price upto 27K (nicely equipped), then I looked at a Volvo C30...Loved it...but it came out north of 30K after I put the options on it, and at 32K, I can start looking at BMW's....
So suddenly, my quest for the "toy car" had me in the uper 30's to lower 40's....I went from paying cash for the Honda to borrowing 20K...
My Subaru Forester was looking better and better...
Today, I decided to try out the Si again...I went to a different dealer (first one is known for being bad.) We take the car out. I ask the sales person if I can see what it can do. Once you get the tach over 5K-6K, that thing is a rocket!
Anyway, we get to talking...I had one minor complaints, and one moderate complaint...minor complaints will be standard equipment in 2009 (with Navi)...That being bluetooth. Moderate complaint is the sports seat is not meant for people of my stature...(e.g., fat). But, It was not that bad...
So, I will wait to the '09's hit the lot. I expect them to be a few hindred more, but it should include fog lights and the bluetooth, so it is ok.
Oh, and they will remove the silly V-tech from the side, so that every yahoo will not try to race me.
When it came to price, I suggested we could use edmunds TMV as the baseline, and worry about it at the appropriate time.
That said, I do this sometimes myself, as little as possible.
For 59.95, I bought an earpiece from Costco that works like a charm so I can't understand why having Bluetooth in a car is such a big deal.
Yes, I do take the stupid thing out of my ear when I'm not in the car!
I do not drive while holding the cell phone.
So, tell me, are you REALLY concentrating on your driving or are you focusing on the content of your conversation?
I can do both but I know I'm not doing either one well.
Stiil better than holding a phone to your face I suppose...
Asside from the Bluetooth issue, it is a heck of a car. Question is, do I want silver or blue?
Me, too. Probably the same thing.
Not just kids. I was driving my Eclipse home from the dealer and a 40ish guy in a BMW was reving at the light next to me. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
jipster....I can do that. I just prefer not to. We both get to the same point, just in different ways.
In general, with margins slipping on new cars, I've noticed dealers who are trying to make up that margin with dealer installed options. No matter the car line, it was tough to find a new car that was unadulterated. I kind of felt fortunate that the Accord only had tint installed. Me thinks if it had stayed on the lot longer, they would have slapped wheels, and maybe a new grill on it.
The worst offender was the Cadillac store. There wasn't one vehicle that I saw on their new lot that didn't have some sort of "bling" as a dealer add-on (how much more bling can you possibly add to an already "blinged" standard Cadillac, anyway?). NIssan was a close 2nd (not surprising, given they're owned by the same dealer group).
Infiniti wasn't as bad, but they still had probably half their models "tarted" up in one way or another.
As you say, it's tough to put a number on some of those dealer installed options. But, I'm sure that's by design. Are Kias that popular that they need some sort of additional theft protection?
The SM at Honda told me that people like to customize their new cars. I guess that's where the big shiny wheels come in. Personally, the ones I saw with the low profile tires and mirror finished wheels looked silly, particularly on a Honda. Add in
"chromed" grills, and it borders on ridiculous.
Thinking back, the way I customized my "heaps" when I was a new driver was to add some headers, some cherry bombs, usually both. You may not have seen me coming. But, you were certainly going to hear me.
To hear the one guy advertising for his Infinity store on 550 I'd think they were giving them away at no profit. Would they need bling?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess I still cling to the notion that in an accident, you're safer in something that weighs more, than driving something that weighs less.
isellhondas......I just can't bring myself to wear those bluetooth ear "thingies". I realize they're becoming ever prevalent. But, I'd feel extremely weird if I were to use one. Maybe I look just as weird when I'm talking on the phone in my car, and people look over and think I'm talking to myself.
I would post a picture, but I've tried in the past, with little success.
IIRC, the Joseph stores have a large part of the local market covered. In addition to Infiniti, they've got Chevy, Honda, Hyundai, Acura, Cadillac, Land Rover, Jag and Hummer stores. Nice people. On their highlines, they don't like to get skinny on a deal.
I've tried several time to deal with them. I relayed that they acted like there was no incentives on the EX 35. Instead, they said they were at "invoice" on the EX (yeah, but that still nets $4K + holdback on the unit). I don't know of anyone who goes there that wasn't charged $600-$700 in fees, either. They don't like to deal OTD (TTL included). I do. They must be able to get away with it. They've been around a while.
Give them credit. They emphasize service. They come pick your car up, and drop it off to you when you get oil changes. They wash and vacuum your car for you at no charge, too.
That said, both BMW stores around here will go to the mat as far as pricing. Both offer the same "luxury" services, too. I chalk that up to competition. Infiniti has none (unless you're willing to travel outside the city).
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Performance will get real aggressive with prices at their Honda and Toyota stores. Don't try that at their Lexus stores, though. They won't talk to you about invoice or negotiation of fees. Then again, their only competition is themselves. They've got two local Lexus stores owned by the same person. There sales people act as if it's beneath them to negotiate (at least not much). Tried to make a deal on an IS350 a few years ago. They insisted on holding about $2K- $3K above invoice. I suppose somebody has to pay for that new showroom with big water fountains and 5 star hotel trappings.
If I'm ever in the market for an Infiniti or a Lexus, I've already made up my mind, it won't be from any of the local dealers. I'd probably have to go to Chicago (5 hour drive) to get a skinny deal....more competition.
it is true. my co-worker got a new 2008 fx35awd for 33K one week ago. It is good time to get good SUV
P.S. Before taxes, title & etc...
I won't use the stupid earpiece unless I am driving.
One of the only things I still enjoy about driving the Mazdaspeed3 is the look on some mullett-head's face when I blow the doors off of their Mustang GT/Trans Am/Z28. Around the Louisville area it seems that nobody knows what an MS3 is- so I get to surprise a LOT of yahoos. Just yesterday I was tailgated by some dopey kid in an old(and loud) "tuned" Scirocco that had "MOVE OVER" printed in reverse script on the air dam. When traffic opened up in front of me I downshifted to 4th and nailed it. By the time I hit 110 VW FanBoy was a very tiny speck in my rear view mirror...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Look at a Plantronics 665. :shades:
OK....just like qbrozen was insulted by my Volvo remarks, I'm going to have to take exception to your denigration of fine American muscle, roadburner.
When I get back to looking for new vehicles for my next personal ride, a Camaro is going to be at the top of that list. Just got to wait until '10 until it gets here.....
Sorry, no offense intended. For what it's worth, back in the '70s I drove a 1974 Monte Carlo equipped as follows:
L82 Air filter/valve covers
Crane HT Cam/lifters
Edelbrock Performer Intake
Q-Jet carb(calibrated by yours truly)
Recurved Delco Distributor/Mallory Unilite/MSD5
Blackjack Headers
3" dual exhaust with Cherry Bomb Q (Turbo) mufflers
B&M Transpak(Street/Strip calibration)
Flex-a-lite 15000 lb.GVW Transmission cooler
3:42 Final Drive Ratio
No, it wasn't blindingly fast, but I was able to blow off 99% of the contemporary model Z28s, Trans Ams and Corvettes(do you detect a pattern here?) that I lined up against. It would chirp the tires on both the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts at anything over half throttle. As a matter of fact, I'd probably buy a 2008/9 Bullitt Mustang today if I could get one on S-Plan...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
LOL. Sounds like a former mullet head/current yahoo friend of mine. He owns a Trans Am with ram air. If you're ever in the Bardstown Rd. area of Fern Creek be on the lookout... thinks he can't be taken.
There was a blues festival last weekend in a community just north of where I live. Every year, they combine the festival with a muscle car shine and show. I attend every year, too.
They've got just the kind of cars that you're talking about....
mid-late 60s, early 70s Mopars, GM and Ford Big Blocks. Some nice iron taken loving care of by their owners. Once they turn them over, you could hear the lumpy cams and straight exhausts just rumble and echo off the buildings.
Don't know where you're at, but a friend of mine is an engineer at the local Ford plant. He says he can get a Bullitt for X plan from a dealer friend if I were interested.
You need this then