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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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I realize you were pressed for time with guests arriving etc., but I wonder if in retrospect if you should have let him take the car away by himself to be inspected. Sure, you had his $500 as a good faith deposit, he left his charming wife with you, and you knew the mechanic he was supposedly going to go to.
Fortunately for you it turned out OK. But he could have easily done some squirelley things with your car , i.e, smoked the clutch , and then come back demanded the deposit back and left with his wife. At that point I don't think you would have any leverage. If you had not given the $500 bucks back, he could have called the cops and they would have "resolved" it by demanding that you give him "his" money back, while all your guests would have been watching this unfold. This may be unfair because I am writing this now after we now what a jerk he was.
I don't have a problem with that and I’ve done that twice when I bought used cars sold privately but I told the seller up front that was part of the deal. Agree to it or I don’t buy. It’s not that I couldn’t afford to pay around $100 more in taxes but that’s my protest against the state for an item like a car that changes hands several times before it goes to the crusher. Talk about cradle to grave taxes. :mad:
When I bought my 75’ Grand Prix from a private seller in 77’ he was a little concerned about doing this until I told him the sale was contingent on it and it’s done all the time. He finally agreed.
A funny thing happened when we were at the bank finalizing the deal. The guy at the bank said, “OK, now that I’ve gotten all the information that I need regarding the loan, I’m going to push myself away from the desk for a moment while the two of you decide on how much you want to tell me what the car is being sold for so I can collect the taxes for the state. I can’t agree with the state taxing cars forever like they do so as long as you say something reasonable it won’t be checked and I’ll collect that amount.” Gee, where did he get a thought like that? The seller looked at me with a smile and said, “I feel a lot better about this now”.
I know you can’t do this with dealers but like I said, it’s done all the time with private sales and I’ve done it when I sold cars privately. In fact, I suggested it a few times myself to help me get my price.
The state takes advantage of taxing car buying/selling but if you don’t push it too far it works.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've got 81k on a 2002 Maxima with the 3.5 and a 6-speed and my overall average is 22.4 mpg. Since I've moved and no longer have a 4.5 mile commute with 13 traffic lights and/or stop signs and now have a 6 mile commute with 1 stop sign and one light each way, I average over 24 overall. 26-27 on the highway. (Actual calculated, the trip computer is about 3-4mpg optimistic)
Over that time, the car has consumed just over $9000 in gasoline... about equal to the amount I've spent on Insurance, Registration, and maintenance (including 6 tires) combined...
Granted, I have the 255 HP version of the engine, but still, the car gets out of its own way and the mileage isn't that bad... (of course with that engine, it is tempting to do things that make that mileage number go down...
"
He then wanted me to "fudge" the selling price so his taxes would be reduced. I told him I didn't do business that way, and that a "deal is a deal". She finally piped up and very curtly said to him "quit it". That was the end to that. "
Yeah, I had a feeling that was going to enter into the story.
" Maybe I'll move to Vegas and work up some schmaltzy schtick at Towbin. " Nah they have two seasons, cool to coldish and thermonuclear meltdown .
Oh.. you wanted to advice on how not to annoy salespeople? Sorry... I always figure they should worry about how not to annoy me!
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Why not break loose from the herd and look at Mitsubishi? Eclipse is 5.9 sec 0-60. Although the handling is only so-so by enthusiast standards they have a $2500 rebate on it now. Base manual goes for about 21K BEFORE any haggling.
If you can bump it up 10K you can put yourself into an EVO which is a real performance car. Actually has a back seat too.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
jipster....I've always felt that if I knew people would be willing to pay a buck (or, 3 bucks) for a bottle of water, my career path would have been much different. I've always wondered how that little business got started. Someone, somewhere brought a business plan to the table and said..."hey, I bet we can put water in a bottle and people will actually pay 1,000% markup for the convenience of having it in a bottle". After all these years, I'm still amazed when I go to Costco and see people buying cases of the stuff. Personally, I can say I've never, ever bought a bottle of water....strictly on principle.
blkislandguy....in general, I'm a fairly trusting person, until you give me a reason not to trust you. Have to admit, I got a little antsy when the buyer took the car, alone, to the mechanic. I thought..."hey, could this be an elaborate scam or con game"? Went with my gut and believed the guy had more to lose than I did....leaving cash, more importantly, his wife behind. I know I would never have done that. If anything untoward had happened to the car, I had just as many witnesses as he did, that the car was in perfect condition before he drove it. There are certain "smells" and "sounds" a car gives off when it's been driven really hard. I didn't notice any of those when he returned.
bks.....everyone I've spoken to, who owns a recent example of Nissan's 3.5, tells me they are getting mid-high teens on their sleds. Plus, from what I've been told, they all require premium juice. Perhaps some of that information is incorrect? If I'm going that route, may as well go back to BMW, where experience tells me their "6s" are relatively frugal, by comparison. I don't think I ever got anything less than 21 MPG on my version. I regularly got 27 MPG on mine during my many jaunts to Chicago. I wasn't easy on it, either.
duke....I'm rather enjoying having nothing to do, right now. That's the first time that's happened since I graduated from college (a long time ago). It can't go on forever. But, for right now, I'm doing things I've always wanted, but could never find the time for. Wednesday night I'm going to a concert. Ordinarily, I wouldn't do that because Thursday's a work day. I'm not worried about that kind of stuff for the first time, in a very long time. Problem is, everyone I know is working during the week. So, anything I do, I have to do it alone. I've noticed a different dynamic. I run into nothing but retired people, doing stuff during the day when everyone else is working. I've noticed they are a "fussy" bunch. I'm not ready to join them (do they really find it that difficult to make a deposit at the bank?). I'm certainly less stressed. That can't be a bad thing.
Back to cars....the phone calls have started fast and furious from the dealerships I've visited. I've made an offer on nothing. Yet, just fielding the voice mails I'm hearing a lot of....."we're dealing....come back in.....what will it take?....my manager says he'll consider any offer....etc, etc!"
Usually, I know exactly what I want. Do my research on it, then go make the deal. This is the first time I'm undecided. Or, maybe I've got too much time on my hands to consider everything...... :surprise:
There seem to be a number of options but I can see where if you only shopped GAP at the dealership during the purchase they could want to nail you for $600-$800. Allstate even has that as one of their alternate coverages, new car replacement that seems to be good for the first 3 years. Of course, that coverage would probably be at a premium over what I pay Allstate for regular coverage. I've heard that are less expensive options from some lenders or insurance companies...but the devil would be in the details (fine print) as to what it would actually cover. Plus, you would want to stay away from fly by night outfits that collect your money then fold up like a 3rd party warranty company.
How about a Pontiac C8, BMW styling at 2/3's the cost. I understand you are not a GM fan, but the Aussies seem to know performance.
And, if you haven't done it yet, I suggest comparing it to a C30/S40 T5. And, if so inclined, slightly used S40s are screaming deals, IMHO.
I can't say much for the VQ gas mileage. My 2 experiences thus far have been quite mixed. I used to get over 25 mpg regularly in mixed driving with the 350Z. The g35X, however, hasn't wanted to give me much better than 21. Sure, its 400lbs heavier than the Z and has AWD, but I figured since its detuned a bit .... eh. Its not FAR off what I expected.
Personally, I find the EX appealing. It is just a G35X hatch, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Oh, and folks are reporting around $7k off MSRP!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Try the Lancer Raliart for 27K then.
I respect your opinion on the Eclipse. Not every guy can drive a "girls" car in comfort.
Then again not everyone is "Mitsu Material". :shades:
Of the others on your list I'd take the G.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Why don't you become an Edmund's Host. You're sitting home doing nothing anyway, why not get paid for it.
Or you could become a kindergarden teacher, same thing.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
As true as it might be, why do I see you becoming the object of revenge. :surprise:
Which do you think is a better deal??
2008 Buick Enclave – 30,000 miles
2007 GMC Acadia – 12,000 miles
Same price, same warranty, Enclave has a few more “posh” features than the Acadia, but otherwise set up exactly the same and the same color - silver.
This is all of the information I have. My gut says the 2007, but I'd like to see what others think.
Typically, in the ~$30k range, you are looking at $2500 difference from year to year (in other words, an '07 is $2500 less than an '08). The 18k fewer miles will eat into that some, but not completely. So let's say it leaves a $500 advantage to the GMC. Then you have to take into account the fewer options and the "lesser" namebadge. I'm thinking the Acadia should still be $1500 to $2k cheaper. But that's just my uneducated gut reaction.
Lower miles AND lower price = winner.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
q.....I'm going with an automatic with any car I get this go round (am I getting "that old"?). I've driven the Altima, which from what I can gather is just 8-9/10ths of a G coupe or 350Z. CVT isn't my cup of tea. I do hear the new Maxima is supposed to be quite nice. But, if I were to go that route, may as well plant myself in an Infiniti (with no CVT) for about the same price.
EX 35 probably has the best interior of any Infiniti I've ever seen. If you haven't already, go drive an EX 35. It's nearly identical in feel to the G35x, just a few extra pounds added. It feels claustrophobic to me. Then again, any SUV is going to feel claustrophobic compared to my Tahoe. Plus, I've already got one SUV in the garage, Don't need another one.
I'm not a Volvo fan, but I do find the C30 mildly interesting. I find their option package structure maddening. This has no rhyme, nor reason, but everyone I know that drives a Volvo, aren't people I want to "hang" with. Not the car's fault, but certainly enters into my perception.
oldfarmer.....Why don't you become an Edmund's Host. You're sitting home doing nothing anyway, why not get paid for it.
I'm sitting by the phone awaiting their call. From what I hear, they make major $$$$$$ as hosts. kyfdx and I live so close together, we can meet and devise new and devious ways to frustrate posters. :P
Made a list of what I want for the next 4 wheel device to grace GG's estate.....
-runs on regular gas
-must be a car, not an SUV, a pretend SUV, or any sort of hybrid or crossover
-must handle well
-must get at least 20 MPG (city)
-must have blue tooth (when I was working, which I hope to do again, I did an awful lot of business while in my car)
-must be a 4 seasons vehicle (able to traverse the midwest tundra in the middle of January)
-must not "despise" the way it looks (mild hate might be tolerable, though)
-must at least have a good reputation for reliability because I'm eventually going to hand it over to my son.
-must seat at least 4
Well I never!
Consider this official notice that you will not be invited to my labor day bbq.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2018 430i Gran Coupe
On those two cars the market should be so soft that the salesman comes to you on his hands and knees weeping and blubbering, polishing your shoes with his tie and offering his first-born as an inducement to take either one off his lot.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
How long did you teach kindergarten?
To the person, their next cars will by hybrids.
Try to have a conversation with them about driving with the throttle, 1/4 mile times, heel and toe techniques, rev match shifting, etc and they act like you just slaughtered Bambi so you can have a little "jerky".
You are the exact opposite. This, I know.
Please accept my apology!
About that bar-b-q invite.....
I've heard that they have an almost cult-like following. And, I've never heard anything untoward about them. They've always just kind of been out there, flying under my radar.
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I don't see a problem in going to look at cars when the dealership is busy, if that is convenient for you. You are in the market for a car. I sure wouldn't be working my schedule around to what is best for the salesman. It's not like they are the pope or something.
As for worrying about not annoying a salesman, you need to reverse that line of thinking to what you can do to annoy a salesman (I can give you some pointers). We need some good stories in here, so annoy one so much that they call the cops on you. We'll pitch in to bail you out. :P
BTW, my current ride isn't a volvo, but my wife's is. I drive it on the weekends, so I still consider myself a "volvo driver."
And I was VERY close to buying an S60R for myself. I picked the G35x for maintenance/resale concerns. The Volvo was more fun to drive, however (and nicer inside).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I’m getting just a little sick and tired of people confusing me with the ‘jipster’, now you do it too.
Tug (‘jkinzel’) just a few weeks ago thought ‘jip’ was going to Myrtle Beach, when it was me that was going there. Over the years there have been others that have also confused us. Now you talk to ‘jip’ about bottled water. He buys it and takes it to parks with him (See post 32697). Then he tries to be the tough guy by saying he’d rather drink pool water than buy bottled water at parks. If you’re anti-bottled water you don’t buy it regardless of its price.
I’m the one, like you, that refuses to buy bottled water at any price. If I dragged myself out of the desert and came upon a bottled water huckster I’d crawl on by until I found a kid with a lemon aid stand.
I plan on going to my grave never having bought bottled water. Might even have that engraved on my tombstone. :mad:
Topic thing: My 05’ Hyundai XG350 rode great on my trip to Myrtle Beach but the best it could do was 23 MPG and that was all Interstate driving. I told Mrs. jmonroe if that’s the best it could do, I might as well buy a Genesis. She had no idea what I was talking about other than saying her dining room set would come first.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Drinking tap water from any faucet in the lower 48 may have that tombstone made sooner than later. :shades:
And after all these years haven't you learned that once they have what they want life becomes a lot easier? Buy that dining room set. Like Isell says...life is short..
graphicguy: I enjoyed your sales tale regarding your 330i. From the way you describe this guy, he sounds like a real chazar. He's walking around with this cash in his pocket, he talks a lot about his business (BLAH, BLAH, BLAH) & how much money he makes, but in the end he's buying a used BMW (not that there's anything wrong with that) and trying to get you to fudge the sale price for tax purposes.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Not necessarily so. I saw this on TV years ago and I just read something (I can't remember where right now) that said bottled water doesn't have to meet the same quality specs as municipal water suppliers. Another reason why it makes me feel good about not buying bottled water but my main reason is the principle of it.
And after all these years haven't you learned that once they have what they want life becomes a lot easier?
My experience is that they just move onto another 'gotta have this thing' mode.
Buy that dining room set.
When I say so. :P
Like Isell says...life is short..
'isell' ain't the guru of life; just Honda's.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
J...I thought you and jipster were fraternal twins? :P
Close to my neighborhood, there used to be a concrete trough that was connected to a spring on the side of the road. The area it's situated in is rural.....nothing really around it except for open fields and this single, two lane road.
While I'm not quite sure of the history of this trough, it was said that it started life as a stopping point for travelers and their horses to drink from "back in the day". Fast forward to recent times, going past it, you'd see a line of cars with gallon jugs dipping into the trough for the alleged unadulterated water. While I was never one of those people, when I first moved into the area, curiosity got the best of me and I stopped a couple of times to taste the water. It was always cool. And, it did have a slight "sweet" taste to it....very refreshing. You could tell it didn't have any of the chemicals in it that you get from your tap. It was the best water I'd ever tasted, from any source.
I hadn't been near the through for maybe a year or two. A week or so ago, while traveling in the area, I noticed that the trough was dry and that there was a sign from the local health dept that it was no longer operational because they couldn't "regulate" or "insure" the healthfulness of the water from the trough. The County shut it down. Not sure how you shut down a free flowing spring, but they did it.
To my knowledge, the trough had been there at least 100 years, based on what the locals told me. Never heard about anyone getting sick drinking the water from the trough. Yet, it was shut down for the only reason I can think of, it was pure spring water (allegedly the kind of stuff you get in bottles, today). And, it was "FREE"!
Back to cars....
nyc....I've sold several personal cars on my own, through the years. All the transactions were different. Some were cars that were "heaps", where $50 would make or break the sale. Some were ones that were relatively desirable (like a BMW) and fairly easy to sell. The buyers (and me being the seller) motivations were different in each case. But, just like new cars, doing a little research goes a long way.
Using Edmunds (and some kind posters like Nick), gleaning a bit of knowledge about worth and market conditions, it's not that tough.
Looking back, the high mileage hurt my BMW's worth a bit. But, it was still under warranty (which was about to expire), and I made it look real "purty". There were no mechanical flaws. Truthfully, there were no cosmetic flaws either except for a few very minor chips on the front bumper, that were hardly noticeable. Aside from some shiny spots on the steering wheel (where I always placed my hands) and a few creases in the driver's seat (where I placed my butt), it looked new.
As any of the sales people here can tell you, having confidence in your product shows when you go to make a sale, too. I knew the buyers could drive it away, and not worry about anything on the car for a good long while (even the last oil change was fairly recent).
I was shooting for $27K to make the sale. Got pretty darn close. If I hadn't been pressed for time, I think I would have got $27K. But, I had a motivated buyer and you have to strike when the iron's hot.
The gas mileage isn't really that bad; my MS3 gets 23-26 mpg in mostly suburban driving. And yes, it does require premium, but so what? Using premium instead of regular works out to the princely sum of @$120 per year- that's a whole thirty-three cents per day.
That said, I've had just about all the FWD fun I can stand, so sooner or later it will be flipped for something from Munich.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I think you need to calm down a little bit. Be aware though, someone named Jmonroe is impersonating you.
-moo
When we decided to buy a CPO X3 in 2005 we first had to sell our 130K 1997 528i. Carmax offered $5000 but I wound up selling it to another customer of my indie BMW shop for $10000. It helps to have the reputation of being obsessive-compulsive about maintenance...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I think you need to calm down a little bit
Yeah jip, calm down... ya been drinking pool water again or something?
BTW, Jip. Where exactly is Parts, Unknown. I hadn't heard of that.
Yeah, I gotta stop that. It messes with my recognition capabilities. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
moo...that's where kyfdx lives....it's right near Paris.....
.......KENTUCKY!
They're not sure what they want other than a price range and room for them plus 2 small kids and their toys. Right now they're all over the map looking at used BMW sedans, Pathfinders, 4Runners, Caddillacs etc..
They asked me and my wife to go car shopping with them and help them figure out what they wanted. We went to the local automall (where I worked at before), and it was funny running into salesmen that had no clue about their own products. When I started asking my sister in law if she liked the car she was testing (Caddy SRX), and asking her typical questions that the salesman who was with us should have been asking (trial closing questions), my wife nudged me and told me to shut up, cause I was intimidating the saleman.
I finally fessed up and told him where I work, but he got even more scared, and wasn't sure what he should have done next (ask for the order, t/o, sit inside and work numbers?). Older guy in his late 50s, I think he was new too.
The other dealers we hit, I knew at least a couple sales guys at each, plus sales managers, so it was nice to hop in, and ask for a key and a demo plate, without typing up a saleaguy, and we had pretty much asscess to the whole inventory, excxept I was doing the selling for someone else (and a bird dog of course) :P
Even though it wasn't an ideal thing to be working on my day off, it was fun being on the other side of the car buying process.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Arrive at 8:30 for a meeting. Get the rah-rah stuff over with and get ready for my day.
I have an appt. at 10 a.m. that doesn't show nor does he answer my calls. Great...
A little while later get a phone up from across the street at our "wholesale" lot. A lady wants to look at our 99 Mustang with a rebuilt title (which I have an appt. on later in the day). Well about 30 minutes and a 423 beacon score later, I free up just long enough to catch another up.
He's on the 2001 BMW 325i. Paying cash, says he's willing to buy it. Acknowledged it was a good deal, but got cold feet right at the end. Calls me 45 minutes later saying he bought a Sequoia.
In the mean time, while dealing with the guy on the 325i, the aformentioned Mustang sells. So, I have to call my customer I had the appointment with and tell her. She is not happy.
Speaks to my "immediate supervisor," then wants to talk to the owner. Threatened to write in to the local newspaper. Said we should have held the car for her. Bad business, blah blah blah. She had not test drove the car and certainly hadn't put any money on it.
And the even better news is I have a solid 5 hours to go. Anybody else having a bad day?
I think you need to calm down a little bit. Be aware though, someone named Jmonroe is impersonating you."
Isn't jipster part of that "Team Jmonroe" I've been reading so much about?
Not sure what they do, other than some occasional thought-control and rehabilitation exercises...
Sometimes you have the day perfectly planned and it all falls apart, and other times you have nothing, and you think it's going to be a lousy day and you end up with a hat trick.
The guy on the 325i obviously is all over the place and has no clue as to what he wants, probably an impulse buyer, or just unsure. At least he had the courtesy to call you and tell youh he bought something. Most people don't.
The Mustang lady needs to wake up.
Putting cars on hold without a deposit is NOT THE SAME as putting a pair of shoes on hold at a shoe store, so that maybe, when you get around to it, and sorta feel like it, you just might call to say that you're not interested in the car cause you found a better deal elsewhere or just decided that you don't think you'll like it (while the dealer turns away 3 other buyers on that car).
It always happens though in the car biz. YOu have a car that sits on the lot for 3 months that nobody looks at, and all of a sudden, 5 people want it on the same day. :confuse: Murphy's Law...
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
congrats
You must get that all the time, eh? I remember when I nearly signed the contract on a new Z4 convertible, only to cross the street and buy a lifted Suburban. In your case, I'm guessing that extremely astute buyer suddenly realized a 3-series didn't provide quite as much cargo space as the Sequoia. It happens...
"Speaks to my "immediate supervisor," then wants to talk to the owner. Threatened to write in to the local newspaper."
Nice lady. Reminds me of that guy who called "911" twice yesterday to complain about his Subway sandwich. Have any police detectives stopped by to talk with you, yet?
Seriously, though, most of us who are not in the biz feel for you guys! Your stories make for very entertaining reading, but most of us probably couldn't put up with that grief. There's just too much "sense of entitlement" out there!
Car actually drove out o.k. Sold for $2950 plus tax. 113K miles. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you.
I generally try to keep a positive attitude. Sometimes, though, I wish my life were like Tivo. That way I could rewind to the beginning of the day and start over.
This business is like nothing else, though. One minute way up and the next way down... Tough to find that even line between the hills and valleys in sales.