General Motors discussions

escambiaguy

I'll try to explain myself a little better. I didn't say Americans had a general hatred of foreign cars, I said cars that look foreign. Sure the Honda Accord is foreign, but it looks for the most part American. What I was referring to were the cars you see running the streets in France, Austria, and other European countries. The ones that look like they should have a giant key sticking out of the back and about 20 clowns in them. I can't say all hatchbacks because I think Mazda has had great success with their Mazda3 and Mazda6 hatchbacks.

m1miata

Of course the conversation went downhill rapidly, as it started out as confrontational. There is a difference between firm language, and straight forward negotiation and simply starting out as negative, and looking for a fight. He thumped first, and got a logically human response back. The salesperson should have killed him with kindness of course, and thus not fall pry to normal human reaction to a confrontation. If he has simply treated him in a superior manner, or even not responded, both methods would have just taken all the wind out of his sales. Civility is a wonderful thing.

Be cool today :shades:
-Loren

m1miata

The Rabbit is back. Yeah, I know it is the Golf. Wonder if the hatches from VW will sell better now that gas is so expensive? It has a larger inline 5 engine now. If VW could just start getting some better initial quality figures in, that would help. Looks like the Rabbit is coming out of Germany. At $16K with an automatic, I would say it is cheap for a German make. I mean cheaply priced, not cheap quality - I hope. Looks sound to me. But then again, they all do.

The interior compared to say the Cobalt is way better looking. It has a certain look or feel the little Chevy doesn't have.
-Loren

m1miata

Interesting. The Cadillac CTS does show as trouble free in Consumer Reports 2006 magazine, but the DeVilles did not fare so well. Looks like some black dots showing up there for little things like the ENGINE. Hummm? Never know what to think of conflicting data. I am not so sold on the Northstar engine anyway. I see Porsche down in 22nd spot. Were they not one of the top for one year initial quality? Perhaps the one, two and three year studies are less important than year three through six? Maybe that is why some people are waiting to buy Hyundai - thinking the initial quality doesn't translate into trouble free fourth and fifth year, for example.

The data seems to be working out well for CTS and most everyone is in the same camp of calling it pretty much a well screwed together car. I can't decide on the new mustang as to considering it as reliable or not. JD Powers has the mechanical as average and the rest pretty good. You look around the boards here and people are having lots of problems -- but then again, the forum is to exchange information on the cars problems. But there seems to be a trend of problems of fueling, and strange noises from the suspension and/or transmissions. But then again, I must confess to when much younger, ordering an Olds Starfire '76 without ever test driving one with a stick.
Now, this older kid, does a lot more research before buying.
-Loren

wideglide

"Daewoo also built the circa-1989 and 1990 Pontiac LeMans - a real piece of junque."

I always thought Pontiac's sin of slapping the revered LeMans nameplate on that POS was one of the worst automotive atrocities ever committed! :mad:

rockylee

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/commodore-begins-global-tour/2006/09/29/11593373- - 22009.html

bumpy, found this great article and posted it in the 2008-2009 Holden Grand Prix, forum I created. It's a confirmed sign of hope to me.

Rocky

driver100

Sat in a Aura (or should that be "an" Aura?) today. Of course the salesman was all over me...best reviews of any car in it's class in R&T, 40 mpg, etc. But, I was surprised at how nice the base model looked for $26,000 Cdn which is about $22,000 U.S.(in real dollars).
Nice dash, very European, nice fake wood trim, fabrics were nice, finish excellent, fold down rear seat, front seats are indented in the back for more rear leg room and there is a lot of room for passengers in the backseat, massive huge trunk.

Negatives, front seats are not that comfortable, rear vision is poor because of a high trunk line, I am not in favor of hoods that drop off making it hard to judge front fenders and giving me the feeling I am driving a bus or van. Most windows seem narrow, not high enough especially front and rear.

Overall, a great value for the money...but I think I would feel better with a Camda. Just didn't feel quite right, but it comes close to a bullseye. It would be interesting to drive it, maybe another time.

m1miata

Holden Grand Prix looks like a Sonata.

So if the best ideas for new cars come from abroad, is GM going to close the doors here in the States? They can keep Cadillac and Corvette operations and design here, and just import the rest. Or is that the plan? Aura looks a bit promising, as it is not overly priced, is pleasing enough inside and out. Sort of like a GM Accord. Not bad. Wonder how it will sell in such a crowded marketplace. So this Aura looks a bit like an Opel, yet is based on the G6 and made in a Saturn plant here in good ol' USA -- interesting. Oh well, another FWD mid-size; parts is parts.
-Loren

m1miata

How about, I sat within - :shades: the Aura. Not a bad car for $20,600. I wouldn't say it is worth $22K plus, though I realize it is still under Japan V6 prices. The Japan make would have the better resale. And the price would then be quite a bit more than a Sonata. Yeah, Sonata interior is not all that great looking -- good enough. Then there is the Azera once into the $23K range. And then all the rest from Accord to Passat. Just so many a choice to be made. And for $23K or less, you may find a RWD Charger, if that's your thing. At around $21K or less the Aura looks interesting. Will take a couple years to see if it is good, bad or mediocre for reliability. First year cars from Ford, Chrysler and GM are a bit scary. And Toyota launch of the Camry, was none too smooth.
-Loren

rorr

Regarding the Holden -

Have you heard any word/news of whether GM might be bringing any of the V6 RWD models over or are they talking about JUST the big V8 editions?

Personally, I think one of the SV6 Commodores would be terrific as a base Grand Prix.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=4004

rockylee

Loren,

Holden Grand Prix looks like a Sonata

I think it's time you get your eyes checked. :P

Neways, GM might build the Holden Grand Prix/G8 here in the states according to that article.

-It's time for me to go back to the "sweat shop" so I need to get ready. See y'all tommorow

Rocky

rockylee

rorr,

I think the Holden Caprice, could be the next Impala, if I were to guess. (Of course new sheet metal) It would certainly make a "good foundation" for one, right ?

Guys, have a good one-I'm out

Rocky

rorr

"I think the Holden Caprice, could be the next Impala, if I were to guess."

Yea. Terrific.

Yet another big, bloated, car with a massive V8 available only with an automatic from the General. Do they have to go all the way to Australia for that? They'd probably screw up the sheetmetal trying to make it 'pallatable' for their perceived American audience.

I was more interested in the Commodore. Something NOT SO BIG. Something with RWD, and a manual. And room for 4 adults.

Something the market (IMO) is short on: affordable RWD sedans with manual transmissions.

wideglide

"Oh yeah, GM is set to announce it will be selling both the Holden Commadore and the Holdan Torrana as Pontiacs during the forthcoming Auto Show season."

The already have been selling the Holden Commadore for a couple years now... it's the Pontiac GTO.

Now, if only Ford would start selling some of their Aussie cars here, Falcon, etc. They even have a cool Ranchero/El Camino type vehicle called the Falcon Ute (which can also be had with a DOHC 32 Valve 5.4L V8 & 6 Speed manual!). Why can't we have these kinds of cars? This goes back to another facet of the original premise of this topic. Before the Japanese & European invasions of the 70's and 80's, The Big 3 could just offer whatever they wanted, and we were stuck with it, with little alternative. They still seem to have this mindset, by and large. For the most part, they are still indifferent to what their customers want, which is why so many have gone to the Japanese and Europeans, and they are in the financial and market share condition they are now. Okay, so maybe 300,000 don't want a niche vehicle. But 4% here, and 5% there add up!

logic1

The already have been selling the Holden Commadore for a couple years now... it's the Pontiac GTO.

This is the all new version only now coming available in Australia. And GM will bring the 4 door version here.

GM will not bring the Aussie 2 Door to the States as the Camaro will be made on the same platform.

andre1969

is only about 203" long, if I'm doing my metric conversions right. That's in range of stuff like an Impala, Lucerne, LeSabre, or Intrepid. Not too terribly big. And I doubt if it would wallow. I could see GM screwing up the sheetmetal in the American translation though.

jae5

They said perhaps in 5-10 years the new hires will have a brighter future but they all doubt they will have it as good as they did

Yes, probably so...at least I hope they will have a brighter future. You definitely needs some benefits, medical is ridiculously expensive :sick: !!

driver100

How about, I sat within - the Aura.

Oh yeh, forgot to mention the front grill would look about 1000X better without that big metal bar across it.

The radio guys said you can get 2 or 3 year olds SUV's for a third of original price because when cars fall out of favor in the U.S.A., the value drops big time.

Newspaper, an expert said Gen-Xer's don't want mini vans, they will buy cross-overs and wagons. Hope GM knows about this...not too many wagons in the line up.

I am considering a wagon next time instead of a SUV. I have been thinking that way for awhile. There are some great looking wagons that will carry the same volume if not more, and they can have more luxuries, thinking Audi 3 or 4, BMW 3, Passat. A few of those Lexus models would look good as a wagon. Maybe CTS if they come out with a wagon and it is AWD and handles like a Euro car!!!!

mariner7

Here's a very glowing review of Aura from Warren Brown of WashPost:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/22/AR2006092200571.- html

Even if Aura is a successful competitor to Camcord, which is by no means certain, GM still makes a mess out of its own strategy. Remember GM originally wanted to position Malibu against Camry, G6 against Accord and Altima, and Aura against TL and ES. Now Malibu and G6 make a quick disappearing act, GM has to send Aura into the family car fray.

lemko

...the Malibu as competing directly against the Camry as it seems to be a smaller car than the Camry but bigger than the Corolla. The G6 is a much-nicer looking car than the Camry - especially the coupe. The Aura is better looking than all of them.

m1miata

Just going by the link you placed. The front is almost a copy of a Sonata.

m1miata

G6 sedan is not an ugly car, but I would say nothing special. The Camry actually went all out this time to have a bit of style. Looks have improved with the new Camry. The G6 reminds me of a little worm or caterpillar; a tube with a slight hump or bent line, like worm in motion.
The G6 Coupe is a better looking version of the Solara no doubt, but it may not best the Accord Coupe. All three are somewhat similar. The Aura is OK, nothing earth shaking. Good challenge for a better looking Accord I suppose. Nothing that stands out like an Altima or Passat. Of course everyone likes something different, and thus there is always a market for something unlike that which you and I feel looks the best. It is all IMHO. In the GM line, the Aura is a best bet to succeed. Some may prefer the inchworm.
-Loren

210delray

The G6 reminds me of a little worm or caterpillar; a tube with a slight hump or bent line, like worm in motion.

Hey, good one, Loren, that made me laugh! I actually like the G6, more or less, but I think Andre's right about the rear wheels looking like they're too far back. Another car (actually minivan) with the "roller coaster" beltline is the Nissan Quest, which I also kind of like (not the interior though).

I still don't get where you guys think the Malibu wasn't meant to challenge the Camry -- of course it was, at least when it was redesigned for 2004. Now, it's already an also-ran, as the sales figures I posted a while back showed.

210delray

Camry:
2004 Toyota Camry LE 4-door
Class: Midsize moderately priced car
Weight: 3,203 lbs.
Side airbags: optional front and rear head curtain airbags and optional front seat-mounted torso airbags
Wheelbase: 107 in.
Length: 189 in.
Width: 71 in.
Engine: 2.4 L 4-cylinder

Malibu:
2004 Chevrolet Malibu LS 4-door
Class: Midsize moderately priced car
Weight: 3,250 lbs.
Side airbags: optional front and rear head curtain airbags
Wheelbase: 106 in.
Length: 188 in.
Width: 70 in.
Engine: 3.5 L V6

BTW, both cars scored a "Good" rating when equipped with the optional side airbags. Yes, I know the Malibu they tested had a V6, but it was definitely the most popular engine in '04.

m1miata

And now, with the Aura coming out, where does this place the Malibu V6? My guess is that the party is over. In the newspaper is an ad for year old rental returns of Malibus for $12,995. Looked in the photo like the non-fleet one, but ya who knows, they get images wrong. Anyway, the Malibu I am sure gets the job done, but there are just all too many other cars to choose from. If a person is looking for a GM car, I would say the best looking in the Camry / Accord sized car is the Aura. No real need for the Malibu. When looking for value, I wonder why people would choose a Malibu or Ion over say the Sonata, when the price is the same or lower and the warranty longer, and the content much more. I doubt they have things like the ESP available on a Malibu. Certainly not a base model. With Altimas, and my goodness all the other choices, poor ol' Malibu is completely lost. It must feel like a Galant about now. :surprise:
-Loren

C2456Ron

Here everyone is putting GM down, and OUT of Business, with the Logic of Japanese cars being better, which they are NOT! Yes, GM is hurting, but NOT because of build quality, fuel mileage, cost of purchase, looks/design or anything else! It's the Unions and how they negotiated their Retirement Package, way before GM got into Home Loans or all the other things GM has it's fingers in!
All the White Collar workers get a percentage of what GM earns in Profits for a year, and the Retirement package says that these people will get a percentage of all GM Profits, ALL!!!! I watched a 2 hr special on TV one evening about the Big 3 Auto Makers, and how they actually killed themselves, with OUR help!
Now everyone in here seems to be against GM for one reason or another, each using an excuse that GM does not build as fine a car as the Japanese, well I'm here to tell you your all wrong (IMO), and if you continue to purchase the Japanese vehicles, you WILL put GM out of the Auto Making business, along with hundreds of thousands of American Workers!
I've purchased 20++ GM Products, and out of all of these I only had one (1) bad vehicle that did not give me all the quality I wanted, needed, and could drive them til the wheels fell off them! I STILL own a '93 Blazer/Tahoe (1st year Tahoe, still called a Blazer), and it has well over a 100,000 miles on it, and STILL runs as good as the day I purchased it, never had a single problem with it, EVER! This is not my first GM Truck either, I've owned 4 Blazer's, all of which had well over 100,000 miles on them when I sold them, 1 Pickup Truck I owned had over 200,000 + miles on it when I sold it, and I owned it for 11 years with no problems at all!
The people that say that their Japanese vehicles are better and never see the shop ever think it may be YOU that beats the heck out of them, to no limit? I know I do this with my GM cars and Trucks, and still have no problems! Maybe it's because you go into a GM product with the thought in mind that this is NOT going to be the car or truck for you, therefore KILLING it by beating it to death, which nobody would EVER do with their [non-permissible content removed] Car or Truck! You treat them like they are on a Pedestal, and pamper them, never doing with them what you would do with a GM product!
The Malibu vs the Camry is a Prime example! As tested in various magazines put the Malibu ahead of ALL Japanese vehicles for the last 4 years, including the Camry by JD Powers! And most Magazines are against any GM or Ford vehicle, that is why I dropped my subscription to just about all the magazines I used to subscribe too, I honestly believe that they are all owned by Japanese Companies! I seriously doubt that anyone in here could ever purchase a GM vehicle that would ever satisfy them, because they hate them before they even get into them! They go into the Dealership with the thought in mind that this will be inferior, or that will be inferior, and once you look at the GM car of choice, you've made up your mind already, so HOW in the world can you tell me that you could ever be satisfied with a GM Product?
At the present time I own a new Corvette that gets 23 mpg around town, and 28 on a trip, a Limited Edition Monte Carlo SS, which also gets extremely good fuel mileage, over 30 mpg on a trip, which is the only time I get to drive my wife's car, my '93 Blazer which I purchased the end of '92, and a 2000 30 ft RV, on a Ford chassis, and have absolutely NO PROBLEMS AT ALL with any of these vehicles! Not even with my very heavy right foot, I always drive in the 80 to 85 mph range, and I always accelerate to this speed as quickly as possible!
I've listened here on the side while everyone complains about their experiences with GM, Ford & Crysler/MB German now! One day we will all pay the consiquances of this, so keep purchasing your Pocket Rockets, and put our people, and Companies out of Business, but PLEASE don't blame the vehicles that your all whining about, blame yourselves! I like the fit & finish of all my GM products, as do most of my friends, I think they are priced right, compared to the Japanese produts, ride better, handle better, and better performance all the way around! I used to put plenty of mileage on all my cars & trucks, and just did the normal maintainance, and they have ALL treated me right, except for one (1)! So please look into a mirror before blaming GM or Ford for the way you like your "[non-permissible content removed] Crap", "Rice Rockets"! This in only MY OPINION, and don't hold it against anyone to disagree! :shades:
BTW: I sold my '87 Corvette Convertible for over $15,000, with more then 130,000 miles on it, and it was over 14 yrs old at the time! Can anyone say they can get that for any of the Rice Rockets they own?

62vetteefp

GM cars to be sold here in the US will be primarily styled here in the US. Inside and out. GM is a worldwide company that has brought together its different organizations.

If a foreign car platform is being used for a US product engineers from the US will be there.

i.e. Holden is run by Denny Mooney who is from US Engineering. Many engineers from the US are now over in Australia working on the various US bound projects. G8, Impala, Camaro etc. Much of the Engineering of those US bound projects are still done here in the states, i.e. engineering drawings.

The development of the vehicles will also be done at the Michigan and Phoenix proving grounds.

Same situation for the Epsilon and other platforms.

Which are still done completely here? I think almost all trucks and crossovers, all Cadillac platforms, Corvette.

62vetteefp

Malibu is replaced next year with the new Eps 2 platform. Will be bigger than Aura. Will match size of Camry/Accord. Will be cheaper than Aura with a real focus on 4 cylinders and less expensive than Aura.

G6 will follow soon after and be much more sporty than current G6 and Aura. Less of a family/old persons car like the Accord/Camry/Aura/Malibu are/will be.

Stabilitrak will be standard on all GM vehicles by '09 and therefore will be at least available on the Malibu.

62vetteefp

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/09/29/gm-considering-compact-rwd-platform-to-ri- val-3-series/

if Lutz is saying this then it is already under way.

plekto

1: Copying another car will just leave you with an imitiation on your hands. You have to build a better whatever it is than the competition. Or else you might as well be some no-name brand TV from China. Let's see... Sony or a copy from someplace you have to Google to find on a map.

If GM wants to make a 3-series competitor, they've already lost. Wrong attitude as usual.

2:
Here everyone is putting GM down, and OUT of Business, with the Logic of Japanese cars being better, which they are NOT! Yes, GM is hurting, but NOT because of build quality, fuel mileage, cost of purchase, looks/design or anything else! It's the Unions and how they negotiated their Retirement Package, way before GM got into Home Loans or all the other things GM has it's fingers in!

No, it's almost purely based upon the fact that GM is making ugly cars with stripped-down interiors that to get to a normal level require as much as 25% additional markup.

GM needs to move to a Honda-like solution. Three options, plus maybe one value package/rental bargain that they can sell to fleets. Now, it used to be this way a long time ago. You bought the Chevy 210 in stock form or you bought the Bel Air with the fancy interior. Going up a trim line included a lot of niceties and more importantly, made the decisions pretty simple.

Consumers do best when they are faced with only a few basic choices to finally choose from. Options just confuse them and/or just make them give up. For instance, try finding ABS on a base Cobalt. It says that it's available, but guess what - you won't ever find one unless you special order it. And GM's cars are more of an impulse buy/convince the customer sort of thing than something you carefully buy and order(trucks are different, of course). If the customer thinks too long or the final price is more than about 10% higher than the base price for the trim level, most leave and go elsewhere - at least with the entry-level models.(ie - new potential first-time customers lost)

Honda? Drive the Accord. Decide to splurge to get the LX options over the base DX/Value Package. Instead of a dozen choices that make you wonder why you aren't just buying a used car for less every time it gets added... it's just one hurdle in the decision making process - and write a check.
(and yes, almost every last Honda sold is LX trim ofr better because of this. People like to upgrade/buy better if they can but they only like to splurge on a major purchase once or twice(options added) as a rule. "Um... okay, I'll get the model with the Alloys and better interior since it's only $1000 more..."

GM and Ford? Dealer pulls out a sheet. "Okay, you want a LaCrosse. What options do you want?"(huge page of 20 options). Grind through that. "Okay, let's see if we have any in stock like that"(invariably not, which makes you feel either like you are settling for less/not getting exactly what you want or worse, paying for stuff you don't need.

So you call and call and search for the one like you want. then get frustrated and just go buy an Accord LX in one afternoon.

55396

Ahhhh,.... you forgot to mention resale.

"if you continue to purchase the Japanese vehicles, you WILL put GM out of the Auto Making business, along with hundreds of thousands of American Workers!"

Look, heres the deal. I agree with you to a point. But 20 plus years to support a company with their heads up their [non-permissible content removed]? I think not. I work hard for my money, and that gives me the right to spend it in a way that benefits me and my family. I feel no guilt for not supporting an outfit that operates like this. Free enterprise dictates that if you can't - or won't hack it, you will go out of business. It's not my fault that they didn't do what they should have. If you haven't figured it out in 20 years, how much loyalty would you expect? Resale is a big deal in the overall picture, and I pay attention to it.

"You treat them like they are on a Pedestal, and pamper them, never doing with them what you would do with a GM product!"

This is a ridiculous statement. How would you know?

" The Malibu vs the Camry is a Prime example! As tested in various magazines put the Malibu ahead of ALL Japanese vehicles for the last 4 years"

Forget which one is a better vehicle and just park them side by side and take a look. Taste is subjective of course, but I can't imagine choosing the styling of the Malibu, and I think sales figures support that. The next gen, however, looks very nice. I guess you read different magazines than I do. Ahead of ALL japanese cars? Someone is smoking something.

"And most Magazines are against any GM or Ford vehicle"

I worked with a guy who thought just like that. Wouldn't look at a foreign car, yet insisted that this was true. Strange conspiracy, isn't it? One of his other opins: "there is no motorcycle other than a Harley, so there's no sense talking about it" One day I put him behind the wheel of my Honda Accord (back when they were fun to drive). He didn't say much until we got back, then said "I may have to get me one of these". Amazing what happens when one opens ones eyes.

"I seriously doubt that anyone in here could ever purchase a GM vehicle that would ever satisfy them, because they hate them before they even get into them! They go into the Dealership with the thought in mind that this will be inferior, or that will be inferior, and once you look at the GM car of choice, you've made up your mind already"

WOW! Where can I get one of them there crystal balls? They really work great. I suppose it's better to not consider the competition, and slip on the rose colored glasses before you walk in. Guess I can't do that though.

Now, that said, I understand where you are coming from, and I'm glad you have good dependability with your vehicles, but keep in mind that the Japanese had to overcome extreme prejudice and early junk to prevail. I'm sure we ALL felt guilt at one time, but when a vehicle stands out and fits what YOU want - not what GM dictates that you should want, and they don't respond for decades, the guilt goes away. Look at Hyundai. They came from a total piece of crap, redesigned their product - sometimes annually, backed it with a fantastic warranty, and are now rated above GM products. And you blame US? Just be careful that you don't fall out of your tree. A friend owned a newer Vette. Since driving a Boxster, one has been on my want list. I mentioned to him that maybe I should consider a Vette (I have owned 2 in the past - and BTW, always drove GM products until I couldn't ignore the quality any more). He said he wouldn't recommend it as I wouldn't be happy with the lack of refinement. His was mint and beautiful, but he sold it and bought an Infiniti G35. I still have a 55 Bel Air with a 425 HP big block and a 79 Olds Cutlass supreme Brougham for toys, but we drive an Avalon and a Lexus LS400.
So, you buy what you want, and I'll buy what I want with my hard earned dollars. In the meantime, I will continue to hope GM will come up with a product that I want to buy. I see hope in the pipeline.

55396

"Many engineers from the US are now over in Australia working on the various US bound projects."

This is a great way to get new ideas and learn from others not of your mindset. Both sides pick up something. Too bad they can't send them to Japan. Next best thing? Hire away top people and benefit from what they know.

62vetteefp

General Motors Corp. will use numerous plants around the world to
build vehicles from its forthcoming Global Rear-Wheel-Drive (Zeta)
Architecture.

The first vehicles from the platform, the Holden VE Commodore and Caprice,
are assembled in Australia, the global engineering center for large RWD
vehicles.

For North America, GM has said the forthcoming Zeta-based ’09 Chevrolet
Camaro will be assembled in Oshawa, Ont., Canada. But Bob Lutz, vice
chairman-global product development, says one, maybe two products from the
platform will be built in the U.S."flexible plant has capacity for 400K+ vehicles"
“There will be a U.S. production site for at least one of the vehicles,” he
says in an interview at the auto show here. He says he does not know if
North American manufacturing executives have decided where, or which
product.

China also is expected to build vehicles off the same architecture,
starting with a long-wheelbase luxury car under the name Buick Royaun. It
will feature limousine-like rear seating.

South Korea will be another market for large RWD cars, but Lutz says he is
not sure if those vehicles will be assembled there or imported.

Volume in Europe likely would be too low to justify local production,
although it easily could be accomplished, he says. So any RWD cars for
Europe likely would have to come from somewhere else, he says.

The modular RWD architecture has much breadth because it has three
different lengths each of front, center and rear underbodies – and vehicles
can be developed using combinations of all three.

There also is an extender that raises the cowl so proportions are better on
larger models. Lutz says the platform can yield a luxury sedan longer than
anything GM has built to date.

“We can do high cars, low cars, short cars, medium cars, sporty cars – all
off the same chassis and structural supports,” he says. “The body parts
would all be different, and we could mount different degrees of
simplification in the suspension.

“This will give us the flexibility to do an enormous portfolio of entirely
different RWD cars around the globe.”

Meanwhile, Lutz says a Pontiac Firebird is unlikely to result from the new
architecture. A Pontiac GTO may be a candidate – but not anytime soon, he
says. A Zeta-based Pontiac G8 that would replace the Grand Prix atop that
division’s car lineup is under study for export to the U.S. from Australia.
Reports out of Australia indicate GM will unveil the car at the Chicago
auto show in February.

A version of the Australian-built Holden Statesman was under consideration
as a replacement for the Buick Park Avenue, “but we cancelled it,” Lutz
says.

62vetteefp

Remember when Toyota said they would help GM by raising their prices? If they really want to help why don't they agree to combine all retired auto workers in US and all manufacturers support all the retirees? Do it on a car volume basis. Every car you build you put in $xxxx to the fund.

hey, if they really want to help here is a way to do it! Sure would equalize one area of the inequities of car cost.

m1miata

55396

My sister-in-law refused all attempts by us and others to get her involved in an IRA, 401k etc while she worked. We told her what would happen. When she retired, her pension would have been small, but there. Instead, she took it in a lump sum, and I'm sure her worthless son got most of that. Now, it is a constant whine about not having any money and begging everyone to send her money. Wouldn't doing what you suggest be about the same thing? The others did the right things. GM and the unions did not. They made their bed, so now why should those that watched their P's and Q's pick up the slack and bail them out?

62vetteefp

The others did the right things. GM and the unions did not.

the transplants have watched their Ps and Q's? they just got here and their governments at home pick up their old tabs.

And this health care issue has just started to become a HUGE problem in the last 10 years. It was not an issue before that. Every company/government/whatever is having the same issue. No one knew.

m1miata

What is reality to you is your personal reality. Glad you are happy within that reality. I assume you have never owned a foreign car, or work for a domestic manufacturer. Yes, a Corvette is a very cool automobile. Great that you found someone to pay $15K for an '87 Vette with 130K miles on her. You are very lucky indeed. I would never pay more than $8K for that vintage, though I would not be looking for a convertible. For $15K, I would be looking more into the C5 era cars.

Out of curiosity, which GM cars ride better, handle better, and perform better than Japan makes, other than the Corvette, which is some $44K. Well maybe Kerbecks got some better prices.

The harsh reality is that a lot of people did not have a great experience with GM or Ford cars, bought something else, as in a German or Japan make, and were impressed with the difference. It may be the handling, fit and finish, the gas mileage, general feel, interiors, or simply a longer lasting car between repairs. But it is fact, the other makes are not really super inexpensive, though they usually sold Japan makes on good content and great resale value. In many a case people paid more up front for the Japan or German make. Why do you think people would do that if they were satisfied with driving their domestic car??? The big three laughed at the VW when it hit the shores, then the Toyotas and Datsuns. Then those silly Hondas and Subarus which looked like toys came over to America. Well all of those makes, in their own way became a hit. The unstoppable VWs are still running today. The Japan makes kept improving and listening to the public demands for the cars. GM and the other domestics kept telling us what they wanted us to drive. Well in the case big daddy did not know best. As for the economic woes of GM and Ford, perhaps you may want to explore the union contracts dating back a few decades. Did they not kill the golden goose? Are you saying no matter how much money they expect, we the citizens of USA must just keeping buying domestic cars to help those workers? Sorry, but people do not want to buy $21K car which is worth $19,000 just to support the work force, which was evidently overpaid. They could be the best work force in the World, but in the long run if the company should fail, perhaps the asked too much in the way of wages and benefits. To blame the customer would be a bit foolish. The customer, which is ultimately the boss, the one they work for, will support that which make sense. The Corvette has made sense in that it represents a value in class, and a uniqueness. What a wonderful effort over the years to build sporty cars which go fast and look super. But GM needed more than a car or two. People bought into the CTS as it was unique and stood out among the rest. The boss, the consumer, will hire and fire.
-Loren

55396

their governments at home pick up their old tabs.

Are you sure about that? If they are the profitable ones, they can probably take care of their own. I worked for one of the largest corporations in the computer industry. They had to rein in health costs and eventually passed more and more onto employees and retirees. But then they didn't have a greedy union squeezing them by the nuts. Did we like it? Hell no, but our pensions are secure, and benefits reasonable. Medical for me, and vision, dental etc for both of us costs $61 per month. Fair enough.

m1miata

Good to see that Hyundai has gotten GMs attention. Now they will make the new cars more roomy and add stabilitrak to more basic cars, just like a Sonata is today. So basically, the new Malibu will be more up to Hyundai standards, with an almost as good warranty. Things are looking up!

G6 Coupe looks pretty good as does the Aura. If the Aura actually sells for $20,600 it is pretty good value.
-Loren

m1miata

Yeah, a baby CTS would be cool ! Hope the price comes in under $24K. A smooth 4 banger may be a good starter car.

Right now the Charger has a 3.6 V6 and sells under $23K with discounts. But something smaller, like the Volvo S40 size at around that $24K and under price would be neat. And some day, a more basic car, like the Nova was, in RWD for under $20K would be welcomed.
-Loren

escambiaguy

I don't live very far from the Hyundai facility that produces the Sonata. The company that I work for(not auto related)has had quite a few employees quit to go to work at Hyundai in search of better benefits and wages. These individuals tried to run my employer in the ground with the union, always expecting more pay for less work. Most of these people were lazy and guess what, they now work for Hyundai. I think it's only a matter of time before the unions start going after this company too.

55396

Kinda like a cancer, aren't they? Promote and protect the worthless, shiftless, and deadbeats at the expense of good employees. They have too much power. The unions used to have the trades locked up here, but now the largest plumbing house in non-union and growing larger every day. Have they killed themselves?

plekto

China also is expected to build vehicles off the same architecture,
starting with a long-wheelbase luxury car under the name Buick Royaun. It
will feature limousine-like rear seating.

It seems as if *CHINA* is getting better vehicles than we are. Shoot, make that just about everyplace on the planet.

What's going on here? GM better make their best stuff in the U.S. or else I'll shed no tears when it all comes crashing down.

55396

Does y'all spose that GM has enough sense to follow these forums to see what they could glean from them? If you're out there GM, give a hint. We would like to know if you care.

62vetteefp

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060930/AUTO01/609300352&Sear- chID=73258467871016

The new, new Malibu

The Chevrolet dealers who gathered Sept. 19 in a ballroom of the Venetian hotel and casino in Las Vegas for General Motors Corp.'s annual dealers meeting held their breath as the cover was pulled off a new car amid a light show and thumping music.

At first, dealers were baffled by the upscale-looking sedan on the stage, and then pleasantly surprised to find out it was the 2008 Malibu, Chevy's entry level sedan that typically starts at less than $20,000.

"It was a stunner. Just a beautiful car," said Jim Quinlan, a Chevy dealer from Knoxville, Tenn. "Nobody could figure out what it was at first. It looks like it would cost $35,000 to $40,000."

Chevy spokesman Terry Rhadigan said dealer reaction has been overwhelmingly positive.

The new Malibu has not been shown publicly but could make its debut at the Detroit auto show next year or one of other major U.S. auto shows.

Quinlan can't wait to get the Malibu on his lot in the latter part of 2007. "It's going to be a home run," he said.

m1miata

The new, new Malibu? If it looks like the photo on the Detroit News, then it looks like the new Malibu. Not sure what a new-new Malibu would be. Different than the preview shots? Looks OK - bigger than before. Flat side, tall doors, with shrinking windows, which are nothing new. Sort a modified Passat / Altima. Should look OK. I assume will undercut the Nissan Altima and Ford Fusion price wise. Maybe a bit larger? Won't the V6 model be around $20K though, and thus going toe to toe with Aura for sales? Ahhh, but Chevy has more dealerships. Should sell I guess - yet another FWD car to me.
They are all starting to meld together. Sure will be an improvement over the current model. Good idea making it a little larger if they are moving the RWD on the Impala so that people living on the frozen tundra have a car to drive. Malibu will be the FWD Impala replacement. Now sports fans, lets get a RWD Monte Carlo which is sporty and smaller than the current sized Monte. I was thinking of a V6 Corvette, but I am sure that is not permissible with HP hungry lot of Vette owners. A lightweight, 250 to 300HP V6 or inline 6 would be great in a Vette. Yeah, I know the image thing.
-Loren

fintail

I wonder what dealer reaction was to the old/"new" fishfaced Malibu with the now-dead grille bar theme. It can't be more dull than what we have now...makes a Camry look exciting.

tlong

Excellent if true! I brought this up just a few days ago. GM should work to deliver true BMW 3-class competition. Better than a 2 seat car like Sky or Solstice, with a bigger market. And potentially a great halo car as well.

lahiri

"If the Aura actually sells for $20,600 it is pretty good value. "

Base Camry is nicely equipped and the sticker price is below $20,000. Also, a year from now you will pay something close to the invoice for a new Camry. And, Camry has a better name recognition and resale value. So, base Aura at $20,600 is a tough sell. Standard V6 may not help if gas prices remain high. 75% of the Camrys sold are I4 and Saturn will have hard-time luring the I4 buyers. I am pretty sure that GM will offer 0% APR or 10% rebate very soon on new Aura.