General Motors discussions

lemonhater

Probably so because the US government is rather backwards when it comes to national health care (something most 1st world nations have). With national healthcare the expenses go to the tax payers which is a much larger group of people than just employee of a company. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they have better retirement benifents than social security since they are expecting the government to do it rather than the company. The downside is much heavier taxes at home.

55396

I remember in the mid 90's the Canadians were selling their places in Arizona because they couldn't afford it any more. I think health care was an issue. Of course it could partly be the exchange rate too. Seems that getting in to see a Dr. or to have surgery was an issue too. And what about choosing the doctor of your choice. It ain't all roses either. How about some education, neighbors to the north?

lahiri

RWD performance sedans that aren't bloated? Sounds interesting. Hope safety features will be standard as well as a decent interior. Will it be just a Caddy like CTS? Or, we'll have a Chevy version too? I will be more interested if Chevy launches an inexpensive alternative to RWD X3 for around $25K.

62vetteefp

Will it be just a Caddy like CTS? Or, we'll have a Chevy version too? I will be more interested if Chevy launches an inexpensive alternative to RWD X3 for around $25K.

I doubt if Chevy gets a 3 series sized car. They will have the Camaro and Impala in RWD and that seems the right mix for chevy.

I would guess a $38K Cadillac and a $28K Pontiac 3 series sized RWD sedans/coupes. Cadillac to compete head on in price and features and Pontiac with fewer features to get the higher volume. Volume relates directly to price and to get a profitable new platform volume makes it feasible. Hey, they could call it a Firebird!

w9cw

OK, I'm all for a new mid-size like the 2008 Malibu from Chevy, but . . . please make side curtain airbags standard equipment, and all of the other safety features that Honda, Toyota (with their 2007's), and Hyundai include as standard. Don't play the Ford game (Five Hundred and Fusion) with their "Safety and Security Package" option. If you have to raise the base MSRP, do so. If you're going to market safety in the new car, deliver it as standard equipment.

m1miata

Ouch, you may be right. Just checked the gas mileage and it is no on par with the new Camry. Looks like 20 / 29, which is not bad, but is not as good as the four banger Camry or the V6. Oh well, it is pretty close and still a fairly good value. Yes, it will depend on miles travelled and future gas prices. A few miles per gallon may add up. All things considered though, the Aura looks closer to being a competitive car than those before it. Maybe I should have said it was a pretty good value within the GM line up.
-Loren

m1miata

A $28K Pontiac in a BMW3 sized car. Well that would not fly. No one would pay that much for a Pontiac small car --- well no one in there right mind. For $3K more you could buy a BMW3 sedan. Those have a bumper to bumper four year, everything including services covered plan. And in five year time, when you are thinking of a trade-in, your Bimmer would be worth so much more; that $3k savings would disappear. Maybe a Pontiac in the $20K to $23K range.
-Loren

escambiaguy

I watched something on CNN this morning about GM forming an alliance with Nissan. Anyone heard about this?

driver100

I remember in the mid 90's the Canadians were selling their places in Arizona

Just to clarify:
Canada does have a national medical system. In the 90's we wanted to stop a lot of excess costs (such as people being recruited to go to the U.S. and paying $10,000 a week for drug treatment that didn't work anyway) so all those payments were stopped and rules changed, you had to come back to Canada every 6 months to keep up your free health plan, so people might have sold permanent homes - not a big deal.
The plan is far from perfect. Not enough doctors, long waiting times, huge taxpayer costs.
On the other hand, you will receive treatment, medical care won't wipe you out, and the overall level of care is quite good. And, at least if a poor family has a sick child, they know they don't have to worry about seeing a doctor.
In the auto world it helps rduce employee costs, because although taxes are higher for the public, medical benefit costs are less for the manufacturer, so it is attractive to build cars in Canada.
Now the Canadian dollar is rising, so that is not a good thing. Today one U.S. dollar is worth about 90 cents Cdn. When Cdn. was 65 cents it was great for manufacturers because they were making cars for just 65 cents on the dollar!
In summary, a national medical program is the only humane system for a modern civilization. IMO there should be user fees (maybe 5 to 10% of the cost of a visit or operation) just so people don't take advantage of the system.
Not quite on topic but at least it might help to explain.

lahiri

Pricing and interior needs to be comparable to Jetta's if GM wants to win hearts with this new RWD 3-series like Pontiac. Does the additional costs associated with RWD platforms make this impossible?

rockylee

A National health care plan in this country I agree would solve alot of GM's cost problems. It would be the moral thing to do if we have any left ? Neways I'm going to drop the Health Care issue, since it's moot at this point.

MT article:

Holden Special Vehicles,
the Holden hot shop jointly owned by GM's Australian subsidiary and former F1 team owner Tom Walkinshaw, has launched its versions of the all-new, Zeta-based Holden Commodore. More powerful and more aggressively styled, the new HSV cars show how GM could put togeather performance versions of rear-drive Impala or Pontiac Grand Prix of the same architecture.

Base engine across the HSV range is a 412-horse version of the 6.0 LS2 V-8 used in the Holden-based Pontiac GTO.
Transmission choice is a Tremec T56 six-speed manual or GM's slick new 6L80 six-speed auto. Holden sources claim test mules have consistently run 0 to 60 in under 5.0 seconds. standing quarter-mile times should be in the12-second bracket.

Brakes are monster 14.3-inch discs up front and 13.7 inch units at the rear, with AP Racing calipers.The top of the range GTS shown here also gets 20-inch alloy wheels and adjustable Magnetic Ride Control shocks by Delphi, as used in the C6 Corvette and the Cadillac STS-V.

Apart from the usual wheels and wings, the visual changes over the standard Holden Commodore include inique front fenders with a prominent side vent and new taillamps. Inside are sport seats and extra guages-voltage, oil temperature, and oil pressure.

Now, here's the best bit: HSV sources haven't ruled out building a limited-run model powered by the 7.0 liter, 502 horse LS7 from the Corvette Z-06. Yeah, it fits, and a car could appear at the Sydney motor show in October of next year. A 502-horsepower four-door sedan? Now that's what we call a musclecar.

Rocky

rockylee

Loren,

GM has confirmed a RWD Chevy Impala off of the Zeta.

3.6 "high feature" will be the base along with a 6-speed auto.

Bottom line is GM, will stay #1 and kick back at Toyota, because GM, has it's MOJO back.

I hope my Velite, will get built since the Zeta has been revived. :shades:

The camry IMHO, can't hold the Aura's Jock. Hopefully the new commercials bring some thinking about a Camry, into the Saturn showrooms for that Lexus style treatment.

I also read in MT, GM, will indeed built a small Cadillac, car to compete in the compact class. It will be used in Europe at first since that is a huge market segment.

Rocky

rockylee

Yes, that's why my mom can't quit her job at Gentex she hates because my Step-dad at Delphi, doesn't have medical. :sick:

Rocky

iluvmysephia1

insurance benefit industry like Americans have for so long isn't going to solve any problems, is it? I mean, we still get sick, we still need to go to the doctor or ER and we still either do have or don't have medical insurance.

I admit, a bit part of the problem is paying character's like me our wages. I work in the health care industry. But the sticky area is how much of the medical insurance monthly payment or premium is the employee willing to pay.

I remember after our famous 45-day strike against Boeing that ended early in the year 2000. We weren't paying any monthly payment for our wonderful(and it was excellent coverage, the best in the industry)before the strike and after the strike we had to pay something like $70/month premium for our monthly portion. SPEEA (the name of my white collar engineer's union)acted like this major victory had been won, when really, the offer given to us by Boeing a while after we struck was a better one than was won. I know, I studied it intently before, during and after the longest strike ever against a company by white collar workers.

What was the big gain? To prove we could do it. Walk out and not come back.

Waste of effort, time and money was what it was. We lost ground on our medical insurance. Fact is, big companies want to burn us all out of better medical benefits.

That's what I'm talking about, the health care industry coverage problem is sorely lacking in this country. It's not covering everyone, or, as is the case often in the area of the country I live in, Arizona, it's overly compliant. Letting a Hispanic couple, married or not and U.S citzens or not, having a child in the U.S. get free hospital delivery coverage for starters. Then, to prove we are as dumb as we think we aren't, we let said child automatically become a U.S. citizen at birth. Huh? That is...just...ummm...delightful, huh? Que pasa? What is that all about, padre?

Does that child continue to get free medical benefits as he/she/it grows up? I'm asking, I don't know the answer to that question. Somebody that does please edumacate me on that.

rockylee

Well some of us have the answers for it. However this isn't a topic for this forum.

Rocky

iluvmysephia1

please get us back on track, then. What is Delphi up to these days?

What is GM up to, besides desperately trying to win people into the fold with a Hyundai/Kia like 100,000 Mile "Do it the American Way" Warranty?

Uhhh...I don't know Ollie, maybe we should've tried to shut that barn door a little bit earlier! :surprise:

m1miata

Well, at one time all cars were RWD. In the beginning, the FWD was to save something like $150 to $300 per car, I think. So today, who knows what the different should be. By now, other automation should help keep overall cost down. Perhaps a little cut in pay for workers? They always made eight times my wages back when. Yes, VW interior would look good in a GM car. Wish I had more data on the new VW inline5 engine and overall reliability, as the new Rabbit looks a bit interesting. It is made in Germany. But it is still a FWD car. May do another test drive of a Mustang. May just go up a notch to a used SLK, BMW Z3 or even a Corvette. The New Stang has its good points. Not sure how reliable and fun it is to drive. Maybe I could just rent one some day. Have yet to test drive a CTS. A used one with the 3.6 and leather adjustable lumbar seats, may be a good one to consider. -Loren

m1miata

Aura is a less expensive V6 car . It is not in the same class as the Camry in looks and gas mileage. We need not talk resale value. If you want a good looking car, but nothing that stands out, like a Camry, yeah it is a good deal. Buy and hold it for a decade. If you want gas mileage, get the Camry. Side note is problems this year with the transmissions on a Camry.

RWD Impala is a good idea. It should have always been RWD.

nvbanker

I know Ford patrols these threads for customer input. Have no idea though, if the General does. Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, being as arrogant as they are. Why would they care what the customer thinks? We're just a bunch of morons who need GM to tell us what we NEED to drive.

62vetteefp

please make side curtain airbags standard equipment, and all of the other safety features that Honda, Toyota (with their 2007's), and Hyundai include as standard.

The entire industry will have side air curtains as standard by 2009. Pretty much right now though all offer as optional so it is up to the dealer to figure out what their market desires when they order teh vehicles.

Malibu will be standard as it is on the Aura today.

62vetteefp

Saw one on the road today. Nice looking car. Well styled and from it turning in front of me I saw no bad/wierd views unlike the new Camry and old Accord. Aura is a much better looking car. It does not though, stick out like a 300, which is a good thing.

rockylee

please get us back on track, then. What is Delphi up to these days?

Delphi, is up to the same old, same old, iluv. Creating benchmark technologies like they've always done pal. Delphi, just won a new contract from Toyota making valve lifters. They also are committing legal fraud on us tax- payers because the UAW lawyers know all about the $11 Billion in asian banks and the $16 Billion stashed away in European banks and they are still trying to file bankruptcy and free themselves of any obligations.

In 2005' Delphi was ranked #1 by some independent study as the most technological company. Delphi, has plans to expand itself in the automotive sectors over the next few years and continue to push into other markets outside of automotive.

Delphi still is closing 21 out of 29 plants here in the U.S. and assemble more of it's parts in low cost markets. GM, has publicly stated they will reduce their dependence on Delphi, and find other vendors for parts. I know Rick Wagoner, can't stand Steve Miller's ego and one time in a negotiation told Steve, to
"Sit down and shut up, I'm talking now" and Steve, did just that.

GM, and Delphi, have filed suits against each other over parts and I haven't heard a peep about that suit in about a month or so.

iluv, that's about it pal. My Lions, couldn't stop a wounded half-dead Ram, today Maybe your Seahawks, will have better luck poaching a Bear.

Rocky

rockylee

What is GM up to, besides desperately trying to win people into the fold with a Hyundai/Kia like 100,000 Mile "Do it the American Way" Warranty?

Well it works for Hykia right ? GM, has pluses and minuses vs Hykia's warranty. It's a good start and hopefully they will in the future improve it. What would make GM's warranty better yet would add a BMW maintence schedule. This would add resale value to GM, cars since the used car buyer would know his/hers car would be well maintained.

Uhhh...I don't know Ollie, maybe we should've tried to shut that barn door a little bit earlier!

I'm not sure what you mean pal ?

Rocky

m1miata

Don't see how Aura differs from an Accord. Both non-offensive, basic styled cars. The Camry actually is a fair attempt at adding a little style to the otherwise same as the rest FWD mid-sized cars. For dollar value, I suppose the Charger is the only deal going in the RWD cars, though its style may not be for everyone. The 300 look is bold, and kinda cool, though I am not sure I sold on any of these cars with the too tall doors and chop top look. A sedan should have more glass area. On a scale of 1-10, I guess the Aura is a possible 7 or 8. The tail is better than an Accord, but the Accord is pleasing enough, and as a whole, I would say rates a style in around the 6 to 7 range. The Aura roof-line is pleasing enough, in a sort of Passat/Altima way. Always like the Altimas - not sure if I would like the new transmission without gears. Guess it is a proven one though. Accords, Altimas, Sonatas, Fusions, Camrys, Auras and such all have some good points to them, and all look good. Don't here as much about the Jetta these days, and dealers are offering discounts. Guess it is the redesign not hitting the mark with customers, and the bad reliability data. They do have a pretty good looking interior. Guess the size is between the Cobalt and Aura though. Those inline 5 engines sound different -- have no idea how reliable they will be.
-Loren

w9cw

62vettefp wrote: "The entire industry will have side air curtains as standard by 2009. Pretty much right now though all offer as optional so it is up to the dealer to figure out what their market desires when they order teh vehicles."

Your last sentence is exactly my point. I don't know how many current model year Ford and GM vehicles on our local dealers' lots that don't have side curtain airbags - a considerable number. In fact, I came ever so close to buying a Ford Five Hundred in early summer of 2005, but none of the inventory on the lot included the "Safety and Security Package" option. Apparently, the dealer didn't feel that it was important. Wrong . . . I think many people who look specifically at the Five Hundred with all of its Volvo engineering input expect side curtain airbags as standard equipment.

Detroit would make it much more simple for everyone if they reduced the option list substantially, and made many "options" standard equipment as do many Asian and European manufacturers.

They should have had side curtain airbags as standard equipment in 2005, or at least in model year 2006. Detroit espouses safety, which is very commendable, but they must deliver the goods as well. The Auru is a step in the right direction.

fintail

Local Saturn dealer screamer print ad has Auras for 22K. No details at all as to options/amenities. Not a bad looking car...lights a little big, but that's a common disease out there.

rockylee

Aura is a less expensive V6 car . It is not in the same class as the Camry in looks and gas mileage.

Loren, that is a crazy opinion. The Aura kicks the camry's butt in styling. It's also cheaper when you load both of em' out. The Aura, should be a big winner.

If you want a good looking car, but nothing that stands out, like a Camry, yeah it is a good deal.

The Aura won't blend like a Camry IMHO.

Buy and hold it for a decade

I think it will have a good resale, especially once you factor in the warranty advantage for the Saturn. :P

Side note is problems this year with the transmissions on a Camry.

Yes, I believe it is. I thought this car was flawless ? :surprise:

RWD Impala is a good idea. It should have always been RWD.

Hey we agree.

Rocky

m1miata

Well they are using a new transmission with the Camry. They could do as GM has done, simply use old tried and true transmission from the olden days. Those GM transmission became reliable after 1987. Unfortunately I owned a 1987 model. My luck. Anyway, if they never build any new cars, and only tweaked the old ones, I suppose the Camry line of say 1990 to as late as 1996 or so would do it. Just keep refining it. People want change though. They are looking for fresh designs, and the latest in technology. The Camry is new, and gas mileage is good. The transmission is not as reliable as an Impala say, but then again the Impala is old school. The look is new, while a bit BMW in nature ( a little Bangle ). Yes, Aura looks OK and plays it safe looks wise. Will it be reliable - no one really knows. The resale is not likely as good, yet these are strange days, so who knows. Maybe life within the Twilight Zone is not all that predictable.
As the law of averages go, it takes the third, or possibly even fourth year before bugs are usually out of the GM, Ford and Chrysler cars. One incident for a Toyota car and it seems like the whole World is amazed. GM release of the C5 Corvette and CTS went off quite well, as new launches go, with only a couple of problems, here and there. Good things happen too!
-Loren

m1miata

Interesting. A Camry Le V6 starts at $23,600. Was the Saturn for sale the engine upgrade version? They did not supply a model number? The $22K seems a bit steep, if it is a more base Aura. Would be about right for the top line one. As for the headlights, I guess that is today's likeness to the fins era. Those lights are huge on the Cobalt and Lucerne too. Big eyes :surprise: Sure it a step in the right direction. Easily will best the G6 inchworm, and the Malibu for looks. Now take care of that foot emergency brake and get it back to where it belongs. Overall interior is pretty good, from what I recall. -Loren

nippononly

Ummmm.....when a car has a service history like this, I always have to ask myself "what will stop all those components from failing again at the exact same mileage intervals?". Especially the ones replaced twice.

I mean, if it was warranty work, didn't they just replace things with the same components that failed prematurely in the first place?

200K miles? Maybe the engine will go that far, sure, but will it be worth the enormous expense?

Actually, this little anecdote is a blow to the theory that the new powertrain warranty will alleviate a lot of peoples' fears about the longevity of GM vehicles. Since so many of the repairs would not have been covered under the newly extended powertrain warranty.

rockylee

Well GM, could be like Toyota, and just ignore it's flaws to keep the hyptonized public in its corner.

Rocky

rockylee

The XE Aura is $20,595. The XR is $24,595. So you can get a XR at a Camry LE price. Looks like the Aura is a clear winner Loren. Factor in the warranty and Saturn buying experience, you are getting the total package. :P

Rocky

rockylee

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061002/AUTO01/610020394/- 1148

Rocky

rockylee

The Chevrolet dealers who gathered Sept. 19 in a ballroom of the Venetian hotel and casino in Las Vegas for General Motors Corp.'s annual dealers meeting held their breath as the cover was pulled off a new car amid a light show and thumping music.

At first, dealers were baffled by the upscale-looking sedan on the stage, and then pleasantly surprised to find out it was the 2008 Malibu, Chevy's entry level sedan that typically starts at less than $20,000.

"It was a stunner. Just a beautiful car," said Jim Quinlan, a Chevy dealer from Knoxville, Tenn. "Nobody could figure out what it was at first. It looks like it would cost $35,000 to $40,000."

Chevy spokesman Terry Rhadigan said dealer reaction has been overwhelmingly positive.

The new Malibu has not been shown publicly but could make its debut at the Detroit auto show next year or one of other major U.S. auto shows.

Quinlan can't wait to get the Malibu on his lot in the latter part of 2007. "It's going to be a home run," he said.

Rocky

rockylee

Tell us, Keith Crain asked Carlos Ghosn, how was the meeting? Following the usual format at conferences sponsored by Automotive News, publisher Crain was collecting questions from the audience and putting them to the keynote speaker. On Wednesday in Paris, it was Ghosn, the CEO of Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co., who had just met with GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner.

How long did the meeting last? "Three hours and 15 minutes," Ghosn replied.

Did you speak privately? "As much as you can speak privately with 10 people in the room."

Was it ever just the two of you? Ghosn demurred. "This is getting very intimate."

If he and Rick want to speak privately, he said, they can pick up the phone. Or switch to Portuguese. "We both speak Portuguese so we can speak Portuguese if we don't want anyone to understand. I'm Brazilian, but he speaks Portuguese better than me," Ghosn said. He was born in Brazil, and Wagoner worked in Brazil. How do you say "Thanks, but no thanks" in Portuguese?

Rocky

rockylee

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060929/AUTO02/609290377/- 1148/AUTO01

Rocky

rockylee

It's Ford vs. GM as big truck battle shifts into high gear

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060929/AUTO01/609290363/- 1148/AUTO01

Rocky

rockylee

Bankruptcy judge allows auto-parts maker to continue negotiations to avoid strike.

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060929/AUTO01/609290354/- 1148/AUTO01

Rocky

rockylee

http://www.gm.com/warranty/index.jsp?brandId=vs&lang=en&cmp=ola

I guess if you factor everything in it's the best warranty out there.

Rocky

wideglide

That's definately one way to make sure I don't win a car! :P

imidazol97

Yeah, Sean Hannity certainly isn't a good role model. They shulda' used Hillary whats-er-name Rodman? Clinton? or Madeline Albright or Teddy Kennedy--didn't he drive an Oldsmobile one time?

Those are the only people they should have announcing winner's names for an automobile.

Giving away cars is a great promotion. I'm signing up.

gsemike

Here's a spy pic:



Bigger? Yes
Much improved? Yes
35 to 40k car? Let's not go crazy

If they bring this car out within the current price structure and offer a decent 4 banger, this will be a step in the right direction. If it's still a pushrod 6 mated to a 4 sp auto, it'll be good enough to cannibalize Impala sales but won't make a dent in the Camry/Accord/Altima sales.

rockylee

No, they should of used Dr. Savage or Hush.

Rocky

rockylee

Good pic

Rocky

55396

I just hope they got rid of that square trunk. That killed the entire car for me.

jrdwyer

Yes, it took GM way too long to address the poor intake manifold gaskets. This van came out in '97. The first replacement they put on (Fall 02) was the same as from the factory. The second (Spring 06) was a reengineered gasket and bolts combo to address the high failure rate of the original. Talk about procrastination!

The A/C condenser was also a redesigned part. Not sure about the radiator or rear wheel cylinders. It could be that we just got bad ones and the replacements will last a very long time. Or it could be that they are cheap parts prone to failure.

We actually had very low expenses getting our Delta 88 to 200K miles. Not to say the car was perfect, far from it. The headliner fell off. The arm rest on the door broke off because the handle on it was not designed to pull the heavy door closed. A few wear items failed along the way like the alternator and starter. These parts were very reasonable to purchase and replacement was easy. Of courese, replacement of anything on a minivan is a lot more difficult than with a mid to large sedan.

I still believe this van will have a lower cost per mile until 200K than the Honda or Toyota comparables. Insurance is very low ($402/yr for full coverage). Gas mileage is as advertised at 19/26 mpg, which is tops for a standard engine in this category. It rides, steers, and brakes nicely and the seats are fairly comfortable. In other words, it's not a terrible minivan.

As I said before, we are currently ahead $3-$4K plus interest since 01. Even with another tranny rebuild (my biggest worry), we would still be ahead financially over new 01 Honda or Toyota minivans.

Most people recognize that there are tradeoffs when comparing brands of vehicles. Maybe today with minivan sales falling, one could buy a Honda or Toyota van for the same price as GM or Ford or Chrysler.

andre1969

looks kinda like it's going to the Saturn Aura shell, so I have a feeling it's essentially going to be an Aura with a different front/rear fascia. Of course, that's not a bad thing.

I saw a few Auras while riding past a dealership lot in PA this past weekend. And I spotted one on the highway. Kinda makes me think of a Dodge Stratus with G6 taillights. I don't think the car really does anything to advance the design of the modern automobile or anything like that, but it's not bad looking. I think it's worth a look the next time I'm in the market for a new car.

gsemike

Based on the pic, isn't the Malibu more raked from front to back then the Aura. The rake looks kind of Altima-ish to me with the Bu being a little more slab sided. The new Alt looks to be a nice step forward (especially in content) remaining the current car's price structure. It's going to be a challenge for the Bu to keep up even if the car is much improved.

fintail

Maybe the Malibu is an Aura with smaller less fakey BMW lights. That would be a good thing.

Hopefully they can promote it in a way that differentiates it from 97-07 Malibus...

atlvibe

Hopefully they can promote it in a way that differentiates it from 97-07 Malibus... Chevrolet seems to rely on heritage names. Impala, Malibu, Monte Carlo. People do associate these names with cars from the past. IMO, especially young people who want to distance themselves from anything that has a perceived stigma of old age. Would GM not be better off starting with a new name for this product?