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General Motors discussions

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  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Peak horsepower at 6000 rpm in little imports doesn't mean anything for 99% of drivers. We don't drive at 5000-6000 rpm at full throttle.

    Who is this "we", kemosabe? I usually shift the Hyundai at 3500-4000 rpm, and I usually shift the Nissan at 4500 if I'm lazy and 6500 if I feel like winding it out a bit. The Honda I usually shift at 5500 just to keep off the VTEC lobes; otherwise it will fly up to the 8000s without any effort at all.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    perhaps ?

    Rocky
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    To accelerate from 65 to 80 very quickly (as you do during highway passing), you need a tranny that's willing to downshift and let the engine rev at 5000-6000 RPM. All Hondas and Toyotas will let you do this. A heavy foot on the gas is all that's needed. Even my 93 Prizm was very responsive. You don't drive at 5000-6000 RPM range steadily - but you need for effortlessly changing lanes on interstates. I guess new GM 3.6 engine and 6 speed tranny will allow it.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    I am 100% sure ;) After recent recalls Toyota has decided to hire 8000 engineers! That decision doesn't leave many for GM, does it? Even if it does, GM can't afford the American engineers because GM pays too much to executives who love excuses (they blame legacy costs for everything including 0% APR) and accountants who cook books (it's too soon to forget earning restatements and failure to forecast billions of dollars in loss last year).
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    How am I suppose to understand that bumpy. English, Doc :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    All you said is true, but I do love the new Holdens. They are Muscle Sedans

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Is this a McMansion ? :P

    http://www.forbes.com/video/?video_url=http://www.forbes.com/video/fvn/lifestyle- - /sy_meh052206&id=sy_meh052206&title=Video%3A+Trump%27s+Palace+By+The+Sea&partner- - =msnedit

    What would you park in your driveway that wouldn't be an embarassment ? a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 ? I think even that would be like owning a Kia Rio, for them. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Directors may decide today whether to approve a third-party study of Nissan-Renault link-up.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061003/AUTO01/610030374/- 1148

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.gm.com/company/gm_exp_live/events/paris_2006/index_flash.html

    Guys, check out the cool vehicles and concepts from Paris. :)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >GM acknowledges that less than 1% of the drivers on the road drive more than 16000 miles a year

    Where is your data source for that statement. I find that one hard to believe.

    >GM's service is horrible

    Based on your experience of one for your Blazer. My experience with EIGHT GM cars has been great at my dealer. So that trumps your Blazer anecdote.

    >the dealer offered free alternative transportation (typically a 2 door Cavalier) only for a day or two

    That's strange. The policy has been a loaner for duration of service for a car bought new or used at the Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, Buick, etc., dealer which I patronized. Are you sure you're telling the story right or is it being twisted because you hate GM?

    > I was told that the car was designed to last 36000 miles

    That statement is so ridiculous it doesn't deserve a comment! :confuse:

    >Alternator in my Blazer got short-circuited and that short-circuit caused other damages in the Blazer - GM just paid for the alternator and left most of the repair on me.

    Frankly, I think there's more to that story than you're telling. A neighbor had a wiring problem with a Grand Prix, it singed the wiring and everything affected was replaced and he was given a loaner for the couple of weeks they had the car!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    the Republican's decrying the "biased left-wing media", which, if anything is quite the opposite.

    BAD example.


    No, PERFECT example. Someone blaming the media of bias because they are critisizing their product. Tell me where the difference Lies!?!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Who is this "we",

    That's easy. The antecedent of "We" is 99% which is followed by the participial phrase "of drivers." :blush:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    the Republican's decrying the "biased left-wing media", which, if anything is quite the opposite.

    BAD example.


    No, PERFECT example. Someone blaming the media of bias because they are critisizing their product. Tell me where the difference lies!?!
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    "My '98 Acura was designed, engineered and built here in America, as are a lot of Hondas, Nissans, and many other 'foreign' cars"

    the '98 cars were not designed and engineered here. But I guess it depends on what you mean by that. Before 2000 there were not enough engineers to "design and engineer" cars here in the US. I have friends that work for the transplants and 10 years ago they were not doing the whole job (except for large trucks). Only "Americanizing" already designed vehicles.

    Now they are just staffing up the engineering groups here and they are still mostly taking existing platforms and designing cars around them. In fact many are taking buy outs form the big 3 and moving to the transplants.


    The CL coupes are the first Acura cars to be designed, engineered, and built in this country. Designed in Torrance, California, and built at East Liberty, Ohio, the CL coupes are American cars for American driving.

    Read the article at the link below.

    AutoChannel Article
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    In fact many are taking buy outs form the big 3 and moving to the transplants.

    That's a smart move by the transplants because they are geting very experienced personel who have skills.

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    > '98 Acura was designed, engineered and built here in America,

    Your 98 Honda is a foreign company. Honda is based in Japan.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    What this means to you: GM and Ford both have compelling and interesting products — in other markets. This is part of the effort to bring those to the most lucrative auto market in the world in order to better compete against the ever-strengthening competition."

    Now, if Ford would just bring their Austrailian Falcon here! Mid-size 4-door sports sedan, 4.0L Turbo I6 or 5.4L DOHC 4-valve V8, either available with a 6 speed manual.... I drool just thinking of it!

    Aussie Falcons
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Your 98 Honda is a foreign company. Honda is based in Japan.

    His Acura, was engineered in Japan. They sold them as Honda's over there. Acura, not to long ago became a brand in Japan, from what I understand. The Acura TL, for instance is 65% "american made" which is good for this country, but the money still goes back to Japan, and either invested or banked. Buying a GM, or Ford, the money stays here. However that's a can of worms we've already been through. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Now, if Ford would just bring their Austrailian Falcon here! Mid-size 4-door sports sedan, 4.0L Turbo I6 or 5.4L DOHC 4-valve V8, either available with a 6 speed manual.... I drool just thinking of it!

    Yes I agree all are nice idea's. Instead of shutting plants build em' here. ;)

    Rocky
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    Your 98 Honda is a foreign company. Honda is based in Japan.

    Did you not read the above??? Designed, engineered and BUILT in America. What do I care where the CEO of the company is from?!? Is it better for America to buy a GM or Ford built in Mexico or Korea just because the CEO is from the US??? Acura/Honda is putting AMERICANS to work, not Koreans!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I realize you're trying to beg the question, but for your convenience I've posted a link to the ADRs for Honda Motor company

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    I realize you're trying to beg the question, but for your convenience I've posted a link to the ADRs for Honda Motor company

    I'm not trying to beg anything. But what the hell is an ADR, and where is the link?
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    His Acura, was engineered in Japan.

    Did you read the article, Rocky? It said designed and engineered in California and built in Ohio.

    The Acura TL, for instance is 65% "american made" which is good for this country, but the money still goes back to Japan, and either invested or banked. Buying a GM, or Ford, the money stays here.

    Does it stay here? Hasn't GM and Ford invested in Opel (Germany), Saab & Volvo (Sweden), Jaguar & Aston Martin (England), Mazda (Japan), Holden (Austrailia) etc., not to mention their own divisions in Europe and Australia and building NEW plants in Mexico and Canada... So GM and Ford proudly wave the American flag about, while closing US plants and outsourcing those jobs overseas, and laying off tens of thousands of US workers, while German and Japanese companies are opening new factories HERE, and putting Americans to work. I really don't give a rat's [non-permissible content removed] where the little bit of profit goes, as long as it's giving Americans jobs, not shipping them overseas, or north or south of the border! :mad:
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    GM acknowledges that less than 1% of the drivers on the road drive more than 16000 miles a year --- LaNeve said this in an interview and I'm trying to locate the actual article on Net.

    I don't hate GM. I hate GM's incompetent management. My friends work at Delphi factory in upstate NY and Chevy Subarban factory in WI. I owned 2 GM vehicles. I plan to own more GM vehicles. I just want to wait till this managment gets a big kick on its rear end.

    This management just cares for "bottomline" and doesn't care about the customer. Edmunds' review of new Saturn VUE hybrid is full of words like "Dangerously slow", "Deadly on wrong hands", "Poor handling", "Squishy brake pedal", etc. A management that knowingly sells bad vehicles to customers need to go. That's what I want.

    After I bought my Blazer in 99, I found it had worst crash-test rating and rollover rating among all vehicles in its class - why was I misled to believe I was buying a very safe vehicle? GM management likes to lie. Just look at the ads flashing on Edmunds pages - "GM 100,000 mile warranty" is all you see at the first glance unless you look the fine-print "5 year powertrain". I don't want to deal with these liars any more.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    NO study was approved. In fact they thumbed their nose at Kerkorian with a rule change to hinder his buying of more shares and made it impossible for him to vote in his own directors to the board.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Last time I checked GM, and Ford, provide more jobs than all the foreign transplants combined. The Transplants aren't building all their plants here as I posted today a link showing Honda, is building another plant in China. How is this helping provide jobs for us or their citizens. ;)

    The transplants are a pimple compared to the magnatude of jobs The Big 3 provide. The only reason why the big 3 are off-shoring jobs because there management hasn't up to most recently decided it's time to build good cars. I blame our governments incompetence for basically forcing the big 3 out of this country because they refuse to tariff foreign makes like they do the big 3 exports, and they have allowed the transplants to manipulate there currency by up to 40%. Every economist will tell you this is part of the problem and reason why american manufactoring is leaving this country. Japan, has invested a good deal of money in the States, but they also have gotten federal aid by us tax-payers to pay for most of the buildings and they pay virtually zero in taxes. :mad:

    With a sweet deal like that, a Yugo Manufactor would stay in buisness. :mad:

    It said designed and engineered in California and built in Ohio.

    I think that article is hawg wash personally but believe what you may.

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    P.S. My 67 Mercedes has an OHC engine, so it's not rocket science to build one, GM

    No I guess it is not. GM offers lots of OHC engines in all configurations and sizes.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    lahiri,

    Okay go get ya a real car a Kia Rio, for godsakes. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Because about 1/2 of the people in this country (if not more) recognise that most of the media is "left wing". Just the way it is.

    Lets not argue this. Just a bad example.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Even if it does, GM can't afford the American engineers because GM pays too much to executives who love excuses (they blame legacy costs for everything including 0% APR) and accountants who cook books (it's too soon to forget earning restatements and failure to forecast billions of dollars in loss last year).

    Support that. Of course you cannot.

    As we have pointed out here numerous times, GM's executive pay is very low for a company of its size in the United States.

    GM does in fact have excellent US engineers designing rwd cars. They are called Cadillacs. Maybe some day someone will let you drive on.

    As for Holden, it has been a GM division making excellent mid level priced rwd cars for years. GM's management, far from being the do nothings you like to portray them as, are finally finding ways to leverage GM's global legacy.

    Rather than design separate products for every one of its markets, GM is allowing its various groups to do what they do best and then selling them in every market. It makes sense, it is what Toyota and BMW are already doing, and it is why GM is turning things around.

    Your complaints come across as nothing more than sour grapes. (Hey, I went from North American aborigional legends - as told by Longfellow to ancient Greek in two days. Cool)
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    I posted today a link showing Honda, is building another plant in China. How is this helping provide jobs for us or their citizens.

    GM said it also has signed two agreements with its flagship joint venture in China, Shanghai General Motors.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3475300

    You were saying? Shanghai General Motors??? At least the transplants are OPENING plants HERE.... How many NEW plants have GM & Ford opened in the US in the last 10 years? How many have they CLOSED?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    For the 1997 model year, the CL was initially either offered with a 3.0 L J30 V6 or a 2.2 L straight-4 engine , which was later bumped up to 2.3 L for the 1998 and 1999 models. Also, there were four different versions of the CL known as the 2.x Base, 2.x Premium, 3.0 Base, and finally the 3.0 Premium. The Premium models had numerous extra features such heated leather seats as well as a premium Bose stereo system. For the non-premium CLs, interior choices were either cloth or leather (the premium version had heated leather). All Acura CLs were built at Honda's plant in Marysville, Ohio alongside the TL and the Honda Accord upon which the Acuras were based. Also, the CL is the first Acura to be built in the United States

    Again it depends on what "designed, engineered" means. The CL coupe is based on the CL sedan which is based on the Accord.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I don't think that's right but it's a good thing for GM, because Kerkorkian, could careless about the future overall health of GM.

    Rocky
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    Because about 1/2 of the people in this country (if not more) recognise that most of the media is "left wing". Just the way it is.

    More like brainwashed by bullsh!t rhetoric. Do you believe Iraq was behind 9/11, too?

    Lets not argue this. Just a bad example.

    Why not? I STILL think it is a perfect example! ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    logic, well said pal.

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    It's a bad example because the belief you have is not shared by a majority. There are two sides and they are about even in size.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You were saying? Shanghai General Motors??? At least the transplants are OPENING plants HERE....

    The transplants have shuttered good paying union jobs in Japan, and is why currently the suicide rate is so high in Japan for people in manufactoring. All I got to say to that is 7 out of 10 auto jobs are provided by the Big 3. GM of course having the largest share of that.

    How many NEW plants have GM & Ford opened in the US in the last 10 years?

    I don't know exactly, but GM has built a couple. The Cadillac plant in Lansing and they have expanded capacity at some more modern plants. Ford has done the same.

    How many have they CLOSED?

    A couple. Are you talking about the future closings ? Well at one time GM and Ford, had at what time what 90+% of the market ? They are still using many of those old plants and yes they need to be shut down. The plant that my dad just retired from was used to assemble weapons for WWII and its still staying open. As the right-winged Detnews has stated both GM and Ford are looking at building new modern plants for the U.S. market. GM, has expanded market-share in China. They are #1 in China, at selling cars. ;)

    The Japanese, do build a few makes and models here and yes that provides jobs. You and the media make it out to be more than it really is. For the amount of money the Japanese auto-makers make they don't provide their workforce the wages and benefits that the big 3 do. Maybe someday that will change ? I wouldn't hold my breath, nor would i want to work as a employee for them on a assembly line. You are there slave, and you have zero rights. If you don't follow lock-step with the corporate line, you will get a pink-slip along with your last days pay. So please leave the transplant hyperbole for another forum. I want to seal the lid on that can of worms, once and for all ;)

    Thanx,

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Agree !!!! ;)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >the hell is an ADR,

    Not surprised at that question.

    >where is the link?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=HMC

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Is the Ford Rouge River plant still going? Hasn't thay place been around since 1917?
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    At least the transplants are OPENING plants HERE.... How many NEW plants have GM & Ford opened in the US in the last 10 years? How many have they CLOSED?

    That is a poor comparison, as GM and Ford have legacy plants that simply cannot be kept open in a modern economy. Even from a purely green point of view, keeping old asbestos laden plants that do not use energy efficiently is senseless.

    That said, GM recently completely rebuilt its Lordstown and Shrevesport plants, built the plant in Michigan that makes the new Cadillacs and high output engines, and is working a rebuild of the Kansas City plants as well as existing plants in Michigan.

    Ford for its part rebuilt the whole Torrance Avenue complex on the South Side of Chicago and invested heavily in its Deaborn truck facilities when it redesigned the F150 line.

    The transplants are starting from nothing in the US. They have to build plants here to compete.

    Finally, GM is not making deals with Shanghai auto to bring cars to the US. Rather it is working on making cars for China. GM happens to be the number auto maker in China. How is that a bad thing? Or are you saying from Japanese and Korean perspectives, the transplants in North America are bad. And if this is so, shouldn't you be against them? I mean Japanese and Koreans are people too.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Well, is it really right for Kerkorian to strong-arm the GM board and basically insist on his way or the highway? He is one guy, the company is supposed to be run by a whole board.

    An independent group, Harbour-Felax, has released a study in which they find that GM's cost disadvantage per unit is still the highest of the domestics relataive to the Japanese, and that they lag badly in platform sharing:

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061003/AUTO01/610030387/1148-

    Platform sharing is one thing they could definitely borrow from Nissan-Renault.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    And all those wonderful foreign-owned plants are being built with subsidy, even total forgiveness, of local taxes. Perhaps even state taxes. Just because they want them to build "here." So political divisions are lowered to bidding wars of how much they can give the company to come to their community.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    To be honest I don't know ? I don't remember hearing about closing.

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Sure is nothing like the woman's very modest rural place in the Merck ad preceding the video on The Donald's crib. Geeze, I guess a Maybach 62 would be considered the beater car. Maybe a McClaren F-1?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    logic, Thank-you, Thank-you, Thank-you, great post and points pal. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "And all those wonderful foreign-owned plants are being built with subsidy, even total forgiveness, of local taxes. Perhaps even state taxes. Just because they want them to build "here."

    Yes.

    Of course, the local and state governments do that for ALL large manufacturer's as a way to lure them into their local tax base. I remember the 'bidding' wars that went on when Dell was looking to open a new factory. Hell, the same thing happens with various Cities attempting to lure Professional Sports teams to their town. My point is, this practice occurs REGARDLESS of the home country of the company involved. Do you honestly think that local cities/states would NOT do the same if GM/Ford announced plans to build a new plant?
This discussion has been closed.