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For some reason UAW, worker's making a middle class wage catches headlines. It's crazy. I know people in pharamceuticals, food industry, that do similar assembly or run a machine jobs that make as much or more than autoworker's. It's so hyped I guess because GM, is a major corporation and people in the South, get riled up because they work for their brother's sister, at the local "stop and go" for mininum wage and gripe because they feel their 6th grade education should give dem one of dos car make'n jobs. :P
-Rocky
I do not have a lot of sympathy for anyone that works a lot of overtime, buys a house they cannot really afford, two SUVs and a boat. Then loses it all when the crunch comes.
You are right about the wages. $56k per year is ghetto wages in CA. I would have never retired on that little income here.
Loren
Loren
The UAW and the Big 3 automakers are the last of the real middle class workers in this country. You cannot tell me that someone working at WalMart is middle class, unless they are a retired greeter looking for something to do.
Even with Prop 13 taxes go up every year. Just a limit on how much. A tax base under $200k is rare in So CA. You would have owned your home at least 30 years.
I never made much money and have owned plenty of new cars. Fairly expensive cars, compared to an Aveo, no doubt. But I must say, I do not have a family, so that is cheating a bit compared to those with three kids and a wife + a ton of bills.
Wow, $85K in Texas! He is rich. A new home starts at $75K there. Large homes most anywhere Texas for under $175K. Dang, he hit the mother-lode.
Loren
Yeap, you are right the good ol' days when people could easily buy a home is likely over. My dad had a shoe repair shop and bought his own home. Today it would not be possible. This was the 50's after he came back from WWII and had saved some money working - then marriage, then buying on a GI Loan.
The problem is the spread. Too many making too much compared to so many making so much less. Housing is really inflated. Perhaps a decent dose of recession cures that. Alas, no return though to the $15,ooo homes
Loren
OK, back to GM. There was some talk of diesel cars. I would imagine they are ready to go on that considering the Opel line must have those cars running all over Europe. Will they be accepted in US of A though?
Loren
What's up with this Italian diesel company GM, is buying a stake in ? I heard something about a diesel Saturn Aura, is that correct ?
-Rocky
How many of you have ever driven or owned a Saab ?????
Are any of you going to take the new 08' 9-3 for a spin ?
Any of you going to consider the new 9-3 as a possible car purchase ?
-Rocky
Very true but these are the new hires at a bankrupt company. This is not typical of GM UAW employees but may portend the future.
Lets stick to the GM employees today!
NOOOO. The job banks came about because GM wanted to install automatic equipment in the plants to increase quality and increase efficiencies. The UAW would only allow GM to install this new equipment IF they made up the job banks and never laid off anyone.
What did happen is that things did not go well and the competition increased market share while GM lost. All those in the job banks are not there due to the automatic equipment but due to competition and lost volume.
http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/100_news/astra_011005.html
http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,20630288-5003140,00.html
Yes they are coming but at a huge cost. Will the diesel astra be sold here? Well if the new CAFE laws go into effect you probably will see lots of them. Issue is the cost of the diesel engine and the emmisions controls. Probably +$5000 on the small astra.
A snippet from the austrailian version:
So, it's going to take a while to recoup the diesel's $4500 (automatic) to $5000 (manual) price premium over the CDX petrol Astra. Assuming a pump price of $1.45 a litre for both fuels and an average annual distance travelled of 15,000km, that works out as 19.1 (manual) to 25.8 (automatic) years before you're in the black.
I know its all funny austrailian money but the only way this will work here is if GM is forced to sell it and the new CAFE laws may do that. In fact this may be cheaper than other methods of increasing CAFE?
OK I converted ausi to US and $1000 US is about $875 Aus. so they are close enough for this discussion.
Do we really think the volume US buyer will want to pay $5000 for the pleasure of buying a tiny car with a diesel?
But I like the idea of diesel options in cars/trucks. I used to own a '00 VW Jetta TDI and it was a great car. Adequate power and legit 50mpg on the highway. Over the course of 1 year and 30k miles, I avg. just over 45 mpg and never had an issue with the car.
$5000 will be nothing to get the MPG up. Like I said $5k may be a bargain to get the 35 mpg CAFE. If the combined car/truck 35 mpg CAFE goes thru GM will be forced to sell the small cars at a huge loss to be able to sell the pickup trucks to contractors.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070717/AUTO01/707170345/1148
In a pairing between OnStar and the insurance unit of GMAC Financial Services, OnStar subscribers can have their annual mileage figures sent directly to GMAC auto insurance business. Drivers who don't rack up a lot of miles could see their insurance premiums cut in half.
Under the system, GMAC's base insurance rates wouldn't change. But drivers who believe they drive less than 15,000 miles a year can elect to have their mileage sent to the insurer, and could get a discount based on actual mileage. The markdowns range from 13 percent for drivers who record 12,001 and 15,000 miles a year to 54 percent for someone who logs 2,500 miles or less.
Huber said no other data, such as where or when the car is driven, would go to the insurer.
I know on the VW Jetta's the TDI option was roughly $2000 over the gas 4cyl and worth every penny since the at the time 2.0 VW 4cyl was terrible. I think the diesel actually felt more refined.
I think that GM would love to pay what Toyota and Honda pay for labor. I would not be so bold to say that they differ in skill levels. The Union has just tried to protect that middle class level of income. It looks like they are losing.
You will find many skilled jobs that pay more than college grads. I have no problem with that. It takes an electrician several years apprenticeship to make journeyman wages.
I would never want my son or daughter to become a doctor. Too much stress from college until they commit suicide.
Working for the government is one of the few jobs left with hope for a decent retirement.
"would only allow"..... That's telling. Reminds one of an old phrase, "the inmates are running the asylum".
62vetteefp, "GM Is on The Offensive. Will it work?" #4297, 18 Jul 2007 6:45 am
Ultimately, students are an intermediary between the providers of education (the universities) and the consumers of education (the employers, unless the student becomes an entreprenure after graduation). Employer demand after graduation is what drive most students to go through education, and specific types of programs. Monopolistic employers, like erstwhile GM and now increasingly the government itself, do not care as much about the particular abilities of a specific employee but instead focus on the piece of paper called diploma. So long as the diploma is the goal instead of the substance of learning, the universities have a very strong incentive to expand their enrollment and churn out diplomas . . . teaching by students instead of professors is a cost-effective way of running a diploma mill. Of course, since the real cost ultimately have to be paid by consumers and taxpayers who are living under those monopolies . . . it's the consumers and taxpayers who will suffer. Taxpayers suffer twice: they get taxed to underwrite the student financial aid programs, and then they get shoddy service from graduates who did not learn enough while in school.
I wish you'd told that to my thesis professor.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1950's saw the massive expansion of Levittowns, which were essentially tract home built using production line methods like the military did building baracks overseas. The whole endeavor was an answer to the oberved phenomenom that GI's coming back from war getting married and having children but had to live with their parents in the cramped cities. That's how the suburbs were born. 1950's was highly unusual in that the builders were a step ahead of the regulators. Soon the zoning codes caught up with the suburbs too, and that created expensive housing once again.
The actual cost of building a house is still very cheap. A pre-built house can be shipped to most building sites for $50k or so. It's the land and zoning code that makes housing expensive in some parts of the country (where most people want to live). In other words, it's very much a result of regulations.
Walmart is never meant to replace the Big 3 automakers. The Big 3 were at the forefront of industrial productivity back in the 1920's through 1950's. Today, that distinction belongs to companies like Intel, Microsoft, Google, etc.. They hire tens of thousands of workers, and pay most of them at very good wages.
There was a time when potato farmers were at the forefront of productivity because potato growing, while a back-breaking labor, produced far more starch per acre than the old wheat (the original crop of choice for European settlers). Those who abandoned wheat for potato made out much better than their neighbors who did not make the switch. Their elevated economic status became the envy of the village, and most farmers quickly switched to potato farming, not just in North America, but the world over (potato was not a native crop to the old world, but it was important enough in Ireland by the 19th century that a potato crop failure caused widespread famine there). So, shall we have a law that make potato farmers earn double the national average wage just because they once upon a time did??
Change is constant, those who want to make more money than their neighbors better make sure their own chosen line of work is ahead in the productivity curve. Manufacturing with big iron blocks just ain't it in this day and age.
Chevrolet sales are booming, but the model names won't mean much to Americans, with the tiny Chevrolet Matiz, and other small cars like the Kalos (the Aveo in the U.S.), Lacetti and Tacumas swarming off dealer lots across Europe. The Captiva, Chevrolet's new Sport Utility vehicle launched recently here in southwest Ireland, won't mean a lot to Americans either, although if you look closely you'll realize it is a Saturn Vue in all but name. Chinese readers will know it as the XL7.
Chevrolets are doing best in new markets like Poland, Ukraine and Russia, where buyers are often finally able to buy their first cars, but it is also competing well in Italy and Spain, where little and cheap go down big.
GM already has two important brands in Western Europe, German-based Opel and British Vauxhall, and until recently it used its Korean subsidiary Daewoo to spearhead sales in less developed markets. It was one of General Motors' better ideas to change the name of products made by its Korean subsidiary Daewoo, to Chevrolet.
Daewoo made worthy cars, but the brand name had zero power in the dealership. You might say that Chevrolet isn't very well known either in Europe, although motors like the Chevrolet Impala and the Corvette had their admirers here. Some analysts point to the possibility of cannibalization of Opel sales by Chevrolets. For instance, a version of the Chevrolet Captiva is going to be sold by Opel and Vauxhall as the Antara.
"The Opel Antara and the Chevrolet Captiva are based on the same vehicle architecture. However, they are completely different vehicles, not only in the sheet metal where each part is different, but also in the interior design and specifically the ride and handling. Captiva offers great value for money for families while the Antara addresses an audience likely to be without children – it's only got five seats – looking for more specification and additional refinement," Brannon said.
With the clamor for smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles, will any of these little Chevys find their way to the U.S. market?
"The Chevrolet Aveo is already successful in the U.S. market place, in fact it has been the best selling sub-compact over a long period. If the demand is there, Chevrolet is certainly in a good position to introduce small cars from its portfolio in the U.S. market," said Brannon.
Working for the government is one of the few jobs left with hope for a decent retirement.
Unfortunately that's what people observe when the government is taking over the economy. What that setence really means is that government employees can get a decent retirement, at the expense of everyone else'. Unfortunately that is not sustainable even for the government employees. What such a situation eventually lead to is government printing massive amount of money to meet its nominal obligations, causing hyperinflation. When that happens, the government pensioners on fixed income will suffer the most (well, second only to savers).
The bottom is that neither GM nor UAW can maintain high wage for autoworkers unless carmaking is at the forefront of productivity. If 20 microchips is worth the same as a car . . . and 20 microchips takes only 1 person-hour from the white-coat (clean room) crew whereas a car takes 2 person-hours from the blue-coat (automobile production line) crew . . . well, the workers on the chip production line is going to take more money home at the end of the day.
July 18, 2007
TOYOTA CITY, Japan – Toyota Motor Corp., taking advantage of the yen's persistent weakness, will try to make Japan an export center to meet growing demand for automobiles in small markets around the world where the market size doesn't justify assembling cars locally, a senior company executive said.
Toyota's solution to that problem, Mr. Kinoshita said, is to combine demand in those small emerging markets and produce cars in Japan where there is excess capacity because of the lingering weakness in domestic demand. The move also comes as Toyota shifts production of an increasing number of vehicles to North America in order to honor a commitment to produce in North America at least two-thirds of vehicles it sells in the region – an effort to deter calls for protectionism in the U.S. as Toyota expands sales.
The new strategy would have been impossible to make just a decade ago, when the yen's strength made Japan an expensive place to manufacture. Now, with the yen trading well above 120 yen to the dollar, it has helped Toyota reposition Japan as an export machine.
Toyota's exports of vehicles from Japan have been on the rise in recent years, totaling 2.53 million vehicles last year, up 24 percent from 2005. That pushed the company's production in Japan to 4.19 million vehicles last year, up 10.6 percent from a year earlier. Exports to the U.S. totaled 1.27 million vehicles last year, up 43 percent from 2005.
Chrysler is the first carmaker to announce a change in production plans related to efforts in Congress to require that vehicles sold in the United States consume less gasoline. The Senate passed a bill last month calling for automakers to raise their average fuel mileage to at least 35 miles a gallon by 2020; a proposal in the House would hold manufacturers to the same standard by 2018.
Rear-wheel drive models are also under review at General Motors Corp., which has tabled development of future models but still plans to bring the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac G8 to market.
"Until we understand the full impact of the future CAFE regulations, whatever it might be, certain programs such as next-generation rear-wheel drive vehicles that are in the plan are in sort of a hold status," said GM spokesman Chris Preuss. "The programs aren't canceled. There's certainly work being done, but there's still looming questions about whether or not those vehicles would comply in a much more onerous CAFE environment."
I think home ownership is at a historical high, so in that respect, more people, or rather households, own than rent.
However, more people are also upside down on their mortages than ever before, struggling to make payments, and often only a paycheck or two away from bankruptcy. Back in the day it was common to put 20% down, take out a 20 year fixed mortgage, and then you were done. Contrast that to the guy who bought my condo a few years ago...he took out one mortgage for 80% of the loan, another mortgage for 20%, and even borrowed all of his closing costs with the exception of $3,000! I guess it could've been worse. At least he took out a fixed loan, and not one of those interest-only adjustables that come back to bite you on the butt after a few years.
Now this is pulling the last of the middle class toward the lower class. Will it give GM a chance to compete against the foreign Hordes? I hope so.
You can pay no more than 1.25% of the home's assessed value in property taxes. You can also not have the assessed value increase by more than (I think it's 1%) per year, regardless of the actual appreciation.
So if you bought a $100K home (unrealistic, but numbers are easy), you'd pay $1250 in property taxes.
Each year your property taxes could only go up by 1% maximum. So let's say after 20 years the house is worth $750K, but the property taxes might be something like (I didn't actually do the math) $2000. Somebody buying that same home new would pay $750K *1.25%, or $9375.
The net effect is that if you stay in your home, your property taxes get proportionately cheaper as the home appreciates. Those who buy new pay the full tax rate their first year.
My in-laws in the LA area have been in their home for 50 years and pay under $1000 for a home worth a bit over $1mill.
39 years later, they still have the same address. Paid 23,000 for the house new, probably worth 550,000 if they sold it.
My wife's grandmother was bragging how her father was able to buy a $3000 house in the '30's, raise 4 girls, and take care of his sick wife, all on $16 a week. Today, that house could sell here in RI for $275,000- 300,000, yet peoples individual incomes don't reach $1600 a week. A family income may reach that, but not an individual. BTW thats $85,000/yr.
Maybe we should just change the name here to CarSpace is on the Offensive, lol.
You get extra credit for trying.
When speaking of GM's "offensive", the unions and legacy costs and such are always brought up as a disadvantage they have, and many LOVE to criticize the unions as a reason for the disadvantage. I think that GM should be proud of the wages they pay their employees (bennies included) because I believe that can do just as much to spur our economy on as cheap overseas products.
Meanwhile back to cars....... Is the Aura selling now? I see ads - lots of ads. Any action? If not, what does this mean for the New Malibu?
Loren
Loren
It is also due to the decrease of plants here in the U.S. :mad: If GM, would close the plants in Mexico, that assemble the Silverado, Avalanche, Escalade, and open a new plan there or re tool the OKC, plant their would be no one left in the jobs banks pal.
-Rocky
-Rocky
I cannot imagine GM shutting down the plants in Mexico and opening or re-opening plants here. The playing field needs to be level. Either UAW contracts take a big cut or Toyota and Honda plants need to be Unionized. I have watched big companies dodge the Union elections in Alaska the last 20 years. It is an uphill battle to keep the middle class. We are losing, and the elitist are winning.
-Rocky