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All of which doesn't change the fact that all of these brands are a competitive handicap, as GM is spread so thin for promotional dollars that it cannot properly market its products.
Just because you can justify it based on the cost of dropping a brand doesn't mean that it is a good structure, or one that isn't hurting GM in the long run.
8-stacks? :surprise:
Where do you live, the western burbs like Naperville? Or N.W. burbs like Lake Zurich, Lake in the Hills or something?
Yes it does. Thanks to mechanization and improvements in farming techniques, we grow more food with less input (labor). This freed up the labor that was tied up on the farm to do other things.
Please note that even though farm employment has steadily dropped since the 19th century, we haven't had any notable famines in this country. We are even cutting the use of fertilizer and pesticides (for environmental reasons) while growing the same amount of produce, or, in some cases, even more.
Apply that to the automotive sector - auto production in this country is the same as it was in 1978 (the last really good year for the Big Three before the 1979-82 recession hit Detroit), even though the number of people employed on the assembly line has dropped.
The goal of ANY sector - farming, manufacturing, service - is to produce more of the final product with fewer inputs (labor, materials, money). Companies that figure this out thrive. Those that don't eventually either die or get bought out by better managed competitors.
As hard as it might be for some to accept, GM, Ford and Chrysler are investor-owned companies that exist to produce profits for their shareholders. They do this by producing products people want, which they can therefore sell at a profit.
The Big Three are not social welfare agencies designed to "protect" America's manufacturing base, or ensure that blue-collar UAW members are always employed at full wages.
A good way to make a profit in the auto industry is to produce attractive vehicles using less of everything - labor, materials, money - than competitors, and then put the savings back into the product to make it even more attractive to buyers (see Toyota and Honda). Right now the struggle is for GM, Ford and Chrysler to adopt this model, but they have notable handicaps - starting with management that doesn't always get it, and a union that somehow thinks car buyers owe members a living.
It's now at 11 models.
Oh. Canyon/Colorado.
13 models. You could lose GMC in a fire and no one would notice a difference.
I could go on, but this is way too much thought on GM products, no? :confuse:
DrFill
Aura and Camaro may be the right cars for the wrong times.
AND if they had come out with a 4-cyl model competing with Camry/Accrod (the Aura is much nicer than them in my opinion) there would be people posting here about how the 4-cyl doesn't live up to their opinion of the 4-cyl from Camry or Accord (it never could to some people no matter how great it is, but that's a different story). So they're darned if they do and darned if they don't.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Beating the competition, instead of offering myriad excuses, tends to take the wind of critics' sails.
I don't understand what the dealer network has to do with selling cars. It was always my understanding that GM was saddled with too many dealerships. If a car is a hit, a buyer will drive across town to buy one. Also, doesn't a typcial Honda dealership move more cars a month than a Pontiac dealership, for example?
-Rocky
-Rocky
I also find it funny how brightness, is all for small government, but for each 10 million illegals it's going to cost the american taxpayer's $2.5-3 TRILLION dollar's. I guess we will turn a blind eye to that as long as corporations and small business get to enjoy the fruit's of illegal alien labor to replace those evil UAW worker's in the american sweat shops. :confuse:
-Rocky
Aura Satisfaction 4.5 stars
Honda Accord Satisfaction 2.5 stars
Toyota Camry Satisfaction 2.5 stars
Reading the comments from the customers giving low ratings on stars is eye-opening info. One comments that he could hav had a 6-cyl in two other cars at about the same price. Perhaps GM did do their homework on price of 6-cyl vs 4-cyl,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
20 or 30 million? Jeez, Rocky. :confuse: I don't think the entire global auto industry employs that many people.
Fertilizer use is up dramatically in the last 50 years. That is what is polluting the Gulf of Mexico.
The consumption of meat protein is a major driver behind N use in agriculture in the US Without change in diet or agricultural practices, fertilizer use will increase over next 30 years, and fluxes to coastal oceans may increase by another 30%
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3809/is_n63/ai_11173964
Rocky, it is the very politicians you like that have written the laws to give the services to anyone that asks, illegal or not.
I really doubt that GM employs more than 25k people in Mexico. That many cross the border every few days. I think the trades that have been impacted the most are the building trades. When you hire a cement contractor you have no idea if all those guys are legal or not. Same with landscapers, sheet rock, roofing, etc. So it is not just the UAW workers that are impacted by any stretch.
As for the OHV V6 vs. the competitons i4 engines, what is the advantage? If you are looking for economy, the i4 does it. If you are looking for a stick shift, you won't find it with the Aura. If you are going for performance, it is the next V6 up, which is comparable to the competition. That's basically it.
Loren
Just kidding. Like anything else, these is some good - some bad, going on these days. Kinda hoping for more good than bad however. :P Just like GM, the new management, as in this decade, was left with a lot of legacy problems for our elected to deal with today.
Loren
That's a useless comment. Do you have data to support that?
>Did you actually go in and read the comments?
Yeah. Lots of complaints about Accords and hard seats, rough ride, paint problems from factory, lint sticking to seat material, etc. Camry comments are about continual upshift and downshifting and transmission problems with lag. I read them last evening. But if you need someone to interpret for you I can go back and read through the list again and summarize them for you here.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Have a heart.
DrFill
Didn't mean to go off on a tangent Rock but it's articles like that that try to gloss over things, leaving out the real. Like you said, some things just didn't add up. Not a knock against 62 or any other posters but...things just didn't add up in the article is all.
You mentioned lint. Found a really cool rubber lint remover at Wal Mart for a couple bucks. It has rubber prongs to comb away lint, cat hair, balls of dust - you name it, it works.
I use it around the house. Should work wonders for all that lint sticking to my seats.
What I have found so far, as a real experiences with an Accord V6, is that there is some noise coming from the belt area which is too loud. Dealer worked on it twice to no avail. It seems louder after the car is warmed up and after using the air conditioning. Nothing which is life threatening, so I will wait until I have some time and take it to another dealership or ask a Honda professional shop here in town what they think it is. Also noticed a click or pop from the fenders, like when entering a park. Has to do with how they are fastened. Not the Worlds most annoying sound and rarely ever heard unless in dead silence, but nevertheless, not of Japan standards. Overall the car is pleasing to drive in town, on the freeways, and sporting on back roads. We have the twisty roads here. Gas mileage is very good and the get-up-and-go is most excellent. Seats are good, as I had no problem on a longer run. I have a bad back, BTW. As for lint on seats, on the right passenger side, I do notice some piling, I guess you could call it. Seems mostly the first months.
As for service, they provided a loaner car, which is good. The sound is still there, which is bad. If it was a 1980's Olds, I would think it to be a normal sounding engine. For a Honda in 2007, I am thinking something is a bit strange.
Will let ya know what happens over time, and will try to get it in to the dealership next week.
Have not had anything else notable happen so far. The car was built in Ohio, with mostly USA parts. I would think that for everyone's sake, including GM fans, a USA built car is as good as a Japan make. Will know more over time.
I did own a Corolla assembled in Ca, of mostly Japan parts.
It was good over time.
Loren
I sat in the 07's seats a couple months ago and they felt hard as some describe them and I noticed the texture of the cloth seat surface and it seemed like the type of finish that would catch and hold lint. It reminded of some car I had had in the past which held lint.
I appreciate your being candid about the _few_ flaws you note in your car. That's a realistic assessment. One can be happy with a car even with a couple of blemishes. It's my tenet that now most cars in the average price range have compromise or flaws but there are a few, repeat few, who don't want to admit that. The 03 Accord brought out some and the current Camry is having its share of problems. It's a product of minimization of content and quality.
I like a ride that's controlled but not brutal. I find my Buicks do great. The 93 I had was a softer ride although it was very comfortable for longer trips because the seats were good, but it was a freeway cruiser. I had my share of cars for solid ride and twisting roads--a Mustang with Heavy Duty shocks and suspension and they were heavy duty. I also added rear sway bars and used Gabriel adjustable shocks. But those cars still could absorb some road movement and impacts. The 03 Accords were too rough for me. The Camry was much softer but didn't get my vote.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I don't see the GMC-import correlation, except in GM exec lip service.
DrFill
Not all of em' I like support this. Duncan Hunter, is one I like well enough that is against this immigration bill. there alsoisa fairly good number of democrats and republican's that are against the bill as well and is why you saw it not become law.
I really doubt that GM employs more than 25k people in Mexico. That many cross the border every few days. I think the trades that have been impacted the most are the building trades. When you hire a cement contractor you have no idea if all those guys are legal or not. Same with landscapers, sheet rock, roofing, etc. So it is not just the UAW workers that are impacted by any stretch.
I know that and it's sad. :sick:
-Rocky
1) Hybrids. I know, they made a hybrid pickup truck. As I recall, it was rated at 1 mpg better than the non-hybrid version and noone bought it. I also know there is a Saturn Hybrid, but that came to the dance about a year and a half after the Ford and a few years after the Japanese companies.
2) A modern half ton truck. Sure, there's a redesign for 2007. The new one is roughly the technical equivalent of a 2003 Dodge, a 2004 Ford, and a 2005 Nissan. It's an improvement over their last half ton, but brings nothing new to the table. And it's plenty unattractive.
3) The Camaro. Hey, I think the concept car looks great too. But, it will be the last of the retro muscle cars on the market. Dodge will have beaten GM by at least a full year and Ford will have beaten them by at least 4 full model years (assuming GM doesn't ditch the project again). Will there be any customers left that want this kind of car that havent already bought one by the time this thing rolls off the line (if it does).
4) midsize sedan. There's a new Malibu on the horizon and it's much improved. The Saturn Aura is really spectacular in my book. The new car will be the equivalent of the 2 year old Fusion, the current model Accord (due to be replaced in a month or so) and the last genereation Toyota and Nissans. I'm thinkin there wont be a line of people waiting to buy a new Malibu because they just haven't been able to find a good quality sedan lately.
5) The Saturn and Isuzu divisions. 5 words. "go bang between the eyes". No way in heck either will ever turn a profit. No owner loyalty at all to either brand. I still haven't figured out why they resurrected Isuzu. They offer only a rebadged Trailblazer and Colorado?....not exactly hot sellers to begin with, I doubt having a different badge on them makes them sell any better.
6) Alternative fuel engines. Why in the world waste resources on fuel cell technology which is clearly a dead end? Why not concentrate on making some fuel efficient diesels that actually do work?
I'm thinking that when you are last to the market with darn near everything, you're actually a little more on the defensive than the offensive.
I do feel for the Union members that are losing jobs. It is an era that will be missed sooner than later. Those of us that are retiring now with our homes paid for are the fortunate ones.
I personally would like to see a Corvette with the 3.6 V6 in it, and then an optional 500, 650 or 1,000HP, whatever people see as the need. Right now the 400HP is more than most people need or can handle. On a race track, and after lessons and track time, perhaps all the HP in the World is not enough. For the average buyer, I would like a 300HP+ 3.6 V6 would be sweet. Perhaps a little less weight too, which again is sweet. Just a thought. And yeah, I know they can not build a car for only a few. Wonder how many would opt. for the less weight and possibly a little more gas mileage, depending on gearing, with a 6 sp. auto or 6 sp. stick. Starting to warm to the new looks. Still kinda like the C5 era for looks and being practical. Yea, a C4 looks good, but oh the back to get in and out -- still, one heck of a value. The C6 cars have the trimmer size, which is good. Some say they are a C5.5 in that they are much like the C5.
Are people hiding their Solstice and Sky cars? I see them for sale, they sell all they can get, yet it is but one or two a week that I see. How limited are sales, and will they ramp up some day. Still like a coupe idea. What I found in talking to people, is that most seem to prefer the look of the Sky. Looks wise I like'em both. Perhaps I see some retro look in the Solstice which I am liking, or is it just that some people like the more rounded with less chrome, or??? See to me the MGA was far better a look than was the MGB.
When will the Cobalt be updated as a 'balt, or will it be replaced, name and all? How about a beefier Daweoo? Why no Daweoo/Aveo in something larger as a replacement for Cobalt. Is it hard to get a new fresh look to a small car. I do believe the Civic coupe is pretty close to being interesting, sporty and stylish in a smaller car. The Mazda3 is at the least a bit of a different look. Heck, looks wise, I prefer the '98 Corolla I had to the 2007 Corolla. And the Sentra? Don't go there. A cool looking Cobalt could do the trick. Maybe a smaller Malibu 2008 style?
Loren
All the complaints about imports and import labor really smack of small lot corn farmers in Manhattan in the early 19th century complaining about import corns from Ohio. Their salvation is not in complaining or political machination; their salvation lies in finding a better line of work than growing corn in Manhattan. Their standard of living won't be falling till Ohio corn farmers catch up with them (Ohio standard of living is still much lower than NYC today), unless of course they actually insists on farming corn instead of finding something better to do. Thankfully, there was no union or government support for Manhattan corn farmers back in the early 19th century; so they turned their farm acres into something far more valuable.
There were plenty sad stories about how family farmers 80 years ago were put through the ringer as farm commodity prices collapsed with the arrival of machine farm ouput from the flat lands ("Grapes of Wrath" being one of the classic). Yet, it would be supreme folly if our government instituted a policy to keep 80% of the population in their farm jobs in the name of job protection. The standard of living of the country would really have been held back if that wide swath of human resources were not motivated to find better lines of work and bring forth the prosperity that we have been enjoying.
The masses still need to have decent jobs, everyone cant be a computer guy or engineer.
Nor does it take a computer or engineering job to make decent wage. Of course, "computer" here meaning designing computers, not computer literacy; basic computer literacy might just be a requirement like ability to follow manufacturing instructions was in 1920 or having reasonable amount of muscle was for farming in 1820.
7) Retro wagon. Years after the PT Cruiser comes out, here's the HHR!
8) Budget sports car. The Miata is what, 15 years old? The S2000 is at least 3 years old. The Solstice and Sky are now here!
As for small sports cars, I am still of the feeling that the coupe should be out at the same time or before the drop top. The drop tops are a really crowded market, and when compared to the Miata on all points, it is going to be an uphill battle. Of course the looks are great. Other points are debatable. The Solstice show coupe would have been great. And since they built the Solstice in such a way as to make it impossible to add the roll bar, a hardtop would have been nice. Not sure what to do for a track car? Anyone ever seen one with a roll bar or cage? A trunk would be a nice thing as well. You mentioned the S2000 by Honda. It is in a totally different league. More of a dedicated track car, which can also be driven on the roads to get there, if ya don't mind a stiff ride, a lot of RPM's (fun-fun) and what I think is not too supportive a seat. I don't think the Big 3 of USA are interested in ever building such a car. Corvettes, while being a sports car, still go the monster engines route. I wonder if they could drop a 3.6 v6 in a Solstice Coupe' and end up with some super car? Guess we shall neve see another Monza Corvair
Loren
As the rumor goes, the Cobalt will be replaced by the next-gen Daewoo Lacetti (the current Lacetti is sold here as the Suzuki Forenza), but the Cobalt name will be applied to most if not all global markets.
??? Acadia/Outlook/Enclave are far from badge engineering.
Enclave no, but the Acadia and Outlook are twins from the few I've seen.