Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
General Motors discussions
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
So that challenge doesn't seem impossible.
There are some holes to fill in on both sides. Holden would get a RHD Solstice, while Pontiac would get a midsize RWD to replace the G6, and a version of the Statesman as a Bonneville or G10 or something. The smaller Holdens are rebadged Opels and Daewoos, so Saturn and Chevy would get those. Four cars is plenty for Pontiac, and would encourage the holdout dealers to go along with the Pontiac-Buick-GMC partnering.
I am not all that concerned because the dealership network is not all that prolific anyway. There are skads of Chevy, Pontiac and Buick dealerships all over the place. Probably the reason why you can get them close to invoice. Nothing is more conter-productive than competing against yourself.
I never understood why GMC exists as a brand name. They are exactly like Chevys.
Surely you realize that the original post mentioned GM's lateness. I didn't comment on whether they were successful, but GM was certainly late, which was the point you didn't understand.
You are also ignoring that GM was one of the first to cash in on SUV popularity in the late 90s and early 2000s.
"was one of the first" == "not the first". Seems to me Ford was the one who launched the SUV craze with the Explorer.
Those that are rebadged!! None of those in production.
But there are some others that have minor revisions (badges, fascias) that make it what folks refer to as re badged:
colorado/canyon
torrent/equinox
Yukon/Tahoe
Cobalt/G5 (only 2 door version)
Of the above I feel only the large SUVs were a huge mistake. With all the volume they sell they could have made them look different. They have multiple tools for the sheet metal and it would have only taken some design/engineering time.
Colorado/Canyon is such a small volume and nobody cared about small trucks when they were introduced. The Torrent was put in to make up for a hole at the GMC/Pontiac dealerships. The next ones will be different (actually I doubt here will be a Pontiac version). The G5 was another hole at GM-no sportier samll 2 door coupe. Again a last minute filler.
I know anybody can have an opinion and there is variation in desires (otherwize we would all drove the same car and they would all be the same) of the above the Aura is rated higher than the current generation Camry by the leading auto media in this country. In their educated opinion the current gen Aura is better than the current gen Camry. And from the ones who have driven the new Malibu it is better than the Aura. But again there will be lots of opinions.
Again, the last one getting to the market being the Malibu.
Funny, next year the new Accord will be out and it will be the last one to market. boy Honda is behind.
It was an incremental process 1964-74, approximately.
Nissan 350Z, Infiniti G35 coupe
Um, the G35 has a back seat and the Z doesn't.
They also left off a lot of the nondomestic twins: Camry and ES, Accord and TL, Sonata and Optima, Accent and Rio, Elantra and Spectra, xA and Yaris, etc.
Okay, Bumpy. These cars look alike. :confuse:
DrFill
Loren
DrFill
I really wouldn't consider the Mazda6 to be a twin to those other cars, but more like a cousin. The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr (or whatever they call it these days, I lost track) are pretty much badge engineering jobs of each other, and while they're derived from the Mazda6, it's not all that obvious.
It's about as much of a "twin" as Lemko's '89 Brougham and my '76 Grand LeMans, which are derived from the same platform, but look different as night and day.
I'd say "twinning" is just another euphemism for "badge engineering". Something like a Camry/Avalon/ES350 is what I'd call "platform sharing". Likewise I'd call the LaCrosse/Impala/Monte Carlo/Grand Prix to be "platform sharing".
I always considered badge engineering to be just changing the easy stuff, like grille inserts, or nowadays plastic front fascias, taillights, interior vinyl/leather/fabric/carpet textures, etc. But once you start making substantial changes to the sheetmetal, dashboards, etc, that becomes platform sharing.
And I think in some instances, a platform can be both badge-engineered and platform-shared. For instance, looking back to GM's downsized '77+ big cars. For the most part, they all had unique sheetmetal, interiors, dashboards, etc. If you got the fender on your Impala smashed, you couldn't just go to the junkyard and get one off of a Catalina, Delta, or LeSabre, because there was just enough difference that it wouldn't interchange. Now maybe the doors did interchange, I dunno.
Pontiac ditched its big cars after 1981, but then once demand for them returned, it issued the Parisienne. Now this thing was basically just a badge-engineered Impala. The dashboard was out of the Impala/Caprice, just with the four gauge cutouts being round instead of square. It used an Impala rear-end, with the Impala's tightly-spaced 3-taillights replaced with a generic one-piece job with horizontal stripes. And up front, the Impala's horizontal 3-bar grille with a lattice background was replaced with a Pontiac split grille.
I sure would not put the corvette and XLR in that category. Differetn interiors. In fact in looking at the list I would say it is pretty inconsistent.
To hit the new price, Toyota cut back on some standard features. The 2007 model featured alloy wheels, JBL audio system, leather steering wheel and shift knob, and electrochromic mirror with compass and Homelink. For 2008, content has been dialed back to steel wheels, single-disc CD player, urethane shift knob and steering wheel, and manual day/night mirror.
A little off the subject BUT Camry hybrid price dropped by $1000!!!! Wow what a price drop. BUT they also dropped aluminum wheels, premium sound system, leather stuff, homelink and electrochromic mirrors. Hate to tell you but all that adds up to a more than $1000 MSRP. So in actuality they put a price increase in and allowed some folks to afford a hybrid. Sounds to me like they just cut content and allowed a baser model to be available with the hybrid.
Technically, the Isuzu diesel that is used in the 3/4 and 1 ton Chevy diesel trucks doesn't meet the current Federal standards for emissions. They get around this problem by using engines manufactured before 1-1-07 in their current production trucks, as the new Federal rules apply only to engines made after 1-1-07, not the actual truck.
....last to the market again? you see a theme here?
Have you ever heard the term "They saved the Best for Last"?
I have no interest in a fire breathing diesel guzzling truck. I am waiting for the more practical diesel PU trucks to arrive. They are available all over the World except for one third World Country. The good ole USA.
Yes WE have fallen behind. Not just GM but all the automakers that sell vehicles in this country except Jeep, VW & MB.
So we shall see who is last to the market as no one is here yet with what many of us want. Who will be last with a 1/2 ton diesel PU truck to all 50 states? My bet is Nissan just after Toyota. The Big 3 will beat the foreign devils to the market.
late August, will start at $32,990, including a $745 destination charge.
In comparison, the 2007 Lexus IS 350 starts at $36,420, including a $715
destination charge. Cadillac noted that the 2007 CTS with a 3.6-liter V6
started at $33,530.
The 2008 CTS gets several upgrades for the new model year, including a
263-horsepower 3.6-liter V6, a redone cabin with "hand-crafted accents,"
standard 17-inch wheels and tires, and a Bose eight-speaker sound system.
Other new standard items for '08 include Stabilitrak and a tire-pressure
monitoring system.
Lexus has not yet announced pricing on its 2008 IS 350.
What this means to you: Cadillac keeps the momentum going with a palatable
price tag on the new CTS.
Can we be reasonable? This coming from the same automotive press that touted the Olds Intrigue? The same one that made the Dodge CIrrus car of the year? The same that made the trailblazer the SUV of the year?.....
The Saturn Aura is a fine, high quality mid-size car that is worthy of consideration, and I'm sure the Malibu will be a fine car as well, but world beaters they are not.
Ford is having problems with their fire breathing diesel guzzling truck? I dunno, seems to me like they're working just fine. Strong as all get out to boot. And in compliance with current emissions laws. Go figure: upgrade to a much stronger engine and meet new emissions requirements at the same time. I dont know if you've seen any speculation on the subject, but according to my sources, the GM Isuzu diesel is having power output issues while being made to comply with the new regulations. I dont think they're saving the best for last, brother. They're just simply being last to the market, again.
I believe that all US automakers are behind the curve on small diesel engines when compared to the VW diesels, no doubt about that. I dont really get the whole MB diesel thing though. I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to buy something other than a MB if you were interested in economy than buying a fuel efficient diesel MB? I'm thinking that if I want and can afford a MB, I could give a damn if gas prices go up a nickel.
As for a small diesel for 1/2 ton trucks, I believe you are correct there as well. I believe Ford and GM will hit the market with that in the 2009 model year, and that should be a huge success. Then again, a huge success by a US automaker in a market they already dominate isnt really gaining any ground. If GM and Ford took a third of the truck business from Toyota and Nissan, I dont think it would make a whole lot of difference, but at least GM would be the first (or nearly first) to the market with something.
I like that! Cool saying that pretty much sums it all up!
Buying a domestic makes you feel like you just got beat. :P
DrFill
The 2007 Lexus IS250 starts at $32,190, including the Delivery, Processing & Handling Fee of $765.
Just trying to keep the record straight...
Way to go, yota!
lol, I didn't even make the fleet connection.
Apologies if I already linked this in here:
Reality Check: Consumer Enthusiasm for Hybrids Cools
The reason I want a MB diesel SUV is range. The gassers are horrible. I like driving diesel engines better. More low end torque which is much better for cruising down the highway. I have owned a MB and VW diesel in the last two years and they were both good to drive and got great mileage. If GM comes out with a diesel SUV or PU I like I may buy. If not I will switch. No more gassers for me.
Loren
Loren
:P
Loren
Loren
Great idea. Perhaps they could put Fits and Yaris's next to the Aveo in the Chevy dealers, too. Chevy is on the offensive!
Ford got their lunch handed to them in '88 and '89 by the 4 dr. S-10 Blazer. Explorer came out in '90 (the rest is history). 4 dr Tahoe came out in '94 or '95, Expedition came out in '97. Suburban came out in 1936. The ONLY answer to it was the old International Travelall until the Excursion in'98.
Excursion=bye-bye
Suburban= sells well (relatively speaking)
So what next, Cadillacs, BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus, Infinity and Acura cars available to test drive at your local Cadillac.
Seems like Saab should be selling now with higher gas prices. Our local Caddy dealership sells those now. Is this the proper mating of lines? If Pontiac is soon to be the performance division, then Saab? If Saturn is collecting those previously looking abroad for cars, then Saab? Seems like there are a lot of Buick + Pontiac dealerships, but the Buick line is suppose to be near luxury (maybe FWD near luxury). So you have salespeople selling totally different cars. But then again one must go back to Chevy & Pontiac both having performance cars, like the Camaro and Corvette, the Solstice & GTO (all Holdens). Clearly defined, Pontiac would get the sports cars and Chevy the entry level cars for the masses. Seems to me Buick + Cadillac dealerships make some sense, Then Chevy, GMC trucks and Pontiac under one roof. Move Saturn into a new name of Saturn International sales as an importer, while making those Euro cars, like Opel and Saab here and selling under their branded names abroad.
Loren
and now back to the regularly scheduled programming....
Loren
Loren