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shocking as this may be to you there are more cars in this class beyond the "big 3". The Impala outsells pretty much anything outside of the Big 3 in retail sales and unfortunately for you at the end of the year ALL sales are counted and the Impala is likely to end up #2 behind camry. I'm sure you will be sure to point out to anyone touting that figure that 50% of those sales dont count- but of course every altima and Camry fleet sale does count. How does that work?
great point!!! thats why nobody sells V8 powered cars anymore!! well except for Lexus, BMW, MB, Jag, Infiniti, Chrysler, Dodge, Ford and audi.
The V8 is indeed dead! thats probably why the Impala, Charger and 300 outsell the V6 only Avalon!
I love to read how you criticize GM. It just shows I was right when I didn't believe you were seriously considering the Aura as a purchase months ago...
Tell about how the VVT and how long it's going to last? How's it different than DoD?
>Impala sold 53.9% fleet in the first half of the year
Sounds to me like some companes are jealus that their offerings are durable enough for companies to want to purchase them for their fleet. Have you seen Honda police cars anywhere?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The bottom line is comparing the Impala to the Accord is a apples to oranges comparo. Two different sized cars. The 08' Malibu, will kick the snot out of most of the competition anyways.
-Rocky
Thats interesting. Considering the clear superiority of Japanese cars in every way you would think we would be seeing more Accord and Camry fleet cars. Think about it, they never need repairs, they get superior mileage, they have resale value, CR ranks them high- what more could your local police dept ask for?
Its amazing how all of those junky american cars manage to give years of heavy duty service to police depts, government fleets and taxi companies. we have 12 year old Taurus' as fleet cars and they are still running fine and never leave anyone stranded. BTW, they are regularly maintained.
And it's going to cool right down. We don't need a bunch of snippy comments; it discourages the newcomers from posting and doesn't advance the discussion.
If you would like a copy of your now-removed post, send me an email.
Retail sales for the 1st 1/2 of '07 for Impala are 68,565.
The Odyssey sold 74,051 yeah, a minivan.
Yes, I know that over the years the current Impala no longer requires you to crank start the engine, thus no broken arms. :P
Oh-oh, I see you are adding words again to what I say. Never said those cars, as mentioned are bad cars. The Fusion, Sonata, and Passat are good cars. I just never called them great cars, and was referring to the numbers sold. The numbers sold doesn't always mean a car is bad, and thus I will take a Porsche, thank you. :shades:
Loren
I disagree, the Impala is only slightly larger than the Accord inside and in the trunk. Its not like we are comparing the Accord to the DTS or S class here. The fact that the Impala is an EPA full size is not enough to act like the car is FAR larger than the Accord.
You can pump up GM, and that is fine, but you brought up Camry, not me. Get your facts straight, and I can stay out of here.
As you were.
DrFill
Rocky, doesn't this sound like soeone trying to use a big vocabulary so they won't have to actually try to put into words what they're trying to imply is not good about the car? It sounds like a politician answer. :P
Remember the "gravitas" during a recent campaign--they were trying to say their candidate had gravitas, hehe. Here we have someone trying to imply their preferred car has robustness while their disliked company car doesn't have robustness. What is robustness in a car? I know I like my UDF morning, afternoon, and evening coffee/cappucino to have robustness of flavor... hehehe
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Loren
C&D got 24mpg from a four cylinder that has an EPA rating of 24/34. I doubt you will get 24mpg from a V6 model, makes no sense. As I said, most V6 cars average 20-21mpg in mixed driving. I believe the EPA V6 stats for accord are 21/20 or 21/29 which is very close to 20/29 in my book. Maybe not yours though.
"Retail sales for the 1st 1/2 of '07 for Impala are 68,565. "
where are you getting these up to the month stats? link would be nice.
"The numbers sold doesn't always mean a car is bad, and thus I will take a Porsche, thank you. "
finally something I agree with. However, your original point was that it doesnt matter that the Impala outsells tons of similarly priced cars because they arent worthy rivals. That is your opinion based on your assertion that the Impala isnt a credible midsize (or large) car. Point is the public disagrees with you.
As for resale value - the manufacturer supplying the vehicles usually agrees to buy those vehicles back after a certain amount of time (within 24 months, if I recall correctly). The rental car companies aren't worried about resale value, as they have a guaranteed customer for their used cars.
Note that as GM and Ford pull back their sales to rental car companies, the car companies filling the void are largely Chrysler, Hyundai and Kia - which are not noted for the reliability or resale value of their vehicles.
As for vehicles being used as police cars - manufacturers interested in selling police cars to either local police departments or state police forces (which tend to favor the big Crown Victorias) must develop specific packages for their models. To be considered for a use as a police car, a model must meet very specific performance and equipment requirements drawn up by the police department. GM isn't just selling stock Impalas to police departments (same with Ford and the Crown Victoria).
Police departments would never consider an Accord because Honda does not equip a model specifically for police duty, not because a civilian Accord is somehow inferior to a civilian Impala.
The use of Impalas as police cars certainly doesn't hurt their reputation, but it also doesn't necessarily correlate to the reliability of civilian Impalas. Police Impalas aren't equipped the same way as "regular" Impalas that we can buy at the local Chevy dealer.
I've yet to meet a car dealer that knows more than I do about cars, even the ones they sell. Not bragging, but its true. I dont lie about Toyota products or any others, its not needed. Toyota products are largely average to slightly above average. Toyota has a great reputation for resale and quality but the actual products are not steps ahead of the competition as you claim. It used to be that Toyotas werent ahead of just Honda, but now they are barely ahead of Hyundai, Nissan or GM products.
Point out one lie on my part related to the camry. You wont find any because everything i said was factual. The camry has ONE ace in the hole and that is the hybrid model that is only selling about 6k a month. Beyond that the camry is matched by other cars in this class, especially the Altima. You have yet to prove otherwise. Furhermore, I dont want a midsize car without fold down seats (they come in very handy) and 18" wheels and thus the camry is not doing anything for me. While the Altima does lack 18s, it does have push button start, HIDs and offers manual with both engines. plus fold down seats and dual zone AC are available across the board.
Yeap, I did go to Saturn first, but they could not swing the deal.
So GM products are all good and should not be critiqued? OK, then all is well. Thinking like that is what got GM in the jam they are in.
So if fleet is a good thing, the old Ford Taurus was the awesome car to buy -- now I understand.
GM an American Evolution.
Loren
wrong, the cars are mostly similar. The wheels are different and there may be some reinforcement of the front end and tougher suspension components but overall the cars are the same and police cars operate for many thousands of miles. Powertrain, electronics, brakes, etc. are the same.
The public does agree with me. They buy some Impalas, and it the Impala has a selling point, as it is larger and gets good gas mileage, and if bought cheap enough serves a purpose. If you are talking sales numbers, it is not the public talking about most of the sale, but rather the fleet buyer. It is a good ol' relic.
Loren
The brakes are not the same (pad materials are different for one thing), and a different wheels, front end and tougher suspension components are pretty significant changes from a base Impala.
Oh my gosh, if the Federal and State and Local governments would agree to outsource lots of back office functions to places like India, there would be billions of $$$ in tax savings (really!!!)- but for political reasons (and maybe security, but that is not a great argument anymore), it is not about to happen.
In the old days.... that was one of the ways that VW tried to prove that the Rabbit was really something (well, it WAS really something, but not what they were trying to prove..). They made a police package available and some towns actually bought the things. Heck, one town near where I lived had one. It was the silliest looking thing you can imagine. VW used them in their ads.
I'd be very surprised if anyone other than GM and Ford do that anymore.
Now off to GM ads campaigns. Well the kids in the Corvette ad was cute, but they pulled that one off right away. The this is OUR country ads work no doubt, as good ol' boy patriot stuff - no comment, they work. Most of GM and Ford ads are same ol' stuff, with little humor or appeal. Not buying a car based on ads, but they DO need to work on the ads. SOME are effective. Some are effective but may wear down in time, like the WE and only WE ARE American theme, without showing what the car does for the customer. I think some here are frustrated by the pace of change at GM for this decade, and may just not be a good mood. So perhaps you take it out on others. Purely a typical reponse. They should be in a better mood however than a couple years ago. GM has come along much better in the last couple of years.
Glad to hear that you do not believe in "putting words in people's mouths", now please follow your advice.
Loren
:shades: Loren
****
Shoot, my dad's 1987 LeSabre got that sort of mileage. It's really NOTHING SPECIAL, if twenty years later, it's the same.
Autoweek, never seems to amaze me. :surprise:
-Rocky
Maybe the constituents like being able to understand those to whom they talk to staighten out the problems!!!
Maybe the constituents like having people who understand the problem on the other end. Lots of companies have foreign answering phone banks. They lose my business quickly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Loren
You brought up Altima, but that car is sold to younger buyers who want a large car, but a sporty ride. Tha Accord is in between the Altima and Camry in sportiness vs comfort.
Toyota doesn't have to play the one-up game, becasue they sell to a conservative buyer who wants a balance of virtues.
Most Toyota vehicles, according to places like Edmunds, are either 1st or 2nd in their class for value/ability. CR says Toyota makes 4 of the Top 10 vehicles you can buy! :shades:
Toyotas have won 7-8 comparison tests on this site alone. :surprise:
Barely ahead of xyz. What does that mean? Vehicle xyz has no track record against a Camry. Camry has a rep only Accord can match. Period. Everyone else is selling to a smaller market. Most families don't just buy a sedan on a whim. They want a heavy reputation behind it. There is a reason why Camry and Accord lead.
That's just the way it is. Some things will never change.
DrFill
OK, turn the car off. Is it off? Now try starting it again and see if it works.
No? OK, we're going to open the engine. You have a complete set of tools with you on the shoulder, right?
what in the world do any of those components have to do with long term reliability. Most significant problems would be related to electrical systems, powertrain, engine controls, AC, etc. Those items are the same. I dont think wheels and supension component materials (alum vs cast iron) make the police impala a different car. More excuses.
I'd agree 8HP isn't a huge leap forward, but I'd say 24HP more is. Again, the Camry leaped both in gas mileage and power, you can't do one without the other if you want to call it leap frogging.
Loren
that's good... but the Camry's 269 HP is great.
It is not like a good number of people posting on here are not working for GM. All are welcome. OK, in my case, some are hated. Oh, that strong word again.
I think of people lost some of this hostility, they would feel better, and would take the time to learn from others postings.
Just trying to be helpful,
Loren
Impala Police Vehicles
1. I USED TO work for Toyota, not currently. So you need to work on updating your sources there. :surprise:
2. As previously mentioned, the Camry, and Accord, have advantages over the mid size market that are inherent based on previous performance, and current product offerings, plus validation by respected 3rd parties such as MT and Edmunds. This is fact, not conjecture, or debatable.
These have been gone over, so if you have any questions, please read previous posts for more information.
With regards to GM's lineup, GM is mounting an improving lineup of cars, and I fully support their turnaround.
The 2008 Malibu will also help their cause. The Aura is a good car, but matching wits with the Camrys and Accords of the world is still a work in progress, as the market will attest to.
DrFill
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
*heavy duty front struts;
*heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars;
*heavy duty fan;
*brakes with police calibration and heavy-duty front brake pads;
*extended air-to-oil engine, transmission and power steering oil cooler;
*heavy duty 4T65 E four-speed transmission (which may be available on the SS model - can't tell if this is the same one).
Do these changes make the Impala a different car? No.
But they do make it a comparison between the reliability of the police Impala to that of the civilian Impala very difficult, if not meaningless.
Honda's and Toyota's must use all heavey duty parts! :P
I guess that would be nice but I'm not aware of any 3rd party that is unbiased ????? The two you mentioned are definetly unfree of biased pasts. :surprise:
-Rocky
-Rocky
GM when brilliant, is making a CTS, which has no comparison. It is something to buy which is sporty and less expensive to own than is the BMW, and does NOT have to out drive a Bimmer to hit the mark. Plenty of buyers out there wanting for style, may not be in love with Chris Bangle's style, or more likely just in need of something which is a fun and interesting car which can make an owner proud to own. This is one Cadillac set a new pace for the company. Actually, one could site others like the Seville and Eldorado of a decade past, as good examples of GM / American cars which people did buy and did like. They are NOT trying to be a Honda or Toyota, but rather an American expression of a performance or luxury car. The Corvette is wonderfully American, even as it becomes more modern and more Worldly in class.
Loren
You need to go tell people posting about problems in both vehicles over in those other discussions that they've got heavy duty parts! :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If that happens then the Malibu should outsell the Camry and Accord COMBINED!!!! Anyone wanna take bets???? Starting at a month's salary? (of course, one condition is that you can't count the sales of junk to the fleet market).
Yes more aggressive brake pad materials and thicker steel wheels take the high G turns police car duty cycle can give. Same exact suspension parts other than rubber tuning and stab bar diameters. Also the same cradle with some reinforcements for the high g turns and I believe a reinforced front struts. All to take the higher forces imparted by police car duty. BUT the important message here is that none of these components were changed for reliability but for higher forces. None of these parts have reliability problems in any numbers.
Exactly, the small Camry's cannot hold the police electronics and equipment. Also the officers need a bit more room to fit their personal equipment.