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-Rocky
Hopefully, if it is a success rather than just another GTO then they will consider building it here? I doubt the volume would be worth that kind of investment though...
Except that this paragraph from the article you sourced contradicts that claim:
After peaking, the fertilizer use per unit of arable land remained either constant or declined. It declined in particular in North America, Central Europe, and Australia and New Zealand, but remained nearly constant in Western Europe at close to 240 kg/ha and in East Asia at 360 kg/ha. There are three reasons for leveling off or decline in application rates of fertilizers and other agricultural chemicals. The most important one is a matter of economics, rates reaching the point where it becomes no longer profitable to use additional doses of chemicals. The other two reasons are an increasing concern with environmental impacts of heavy use of agricultural chemicals, and technological progress in the delivery of the chemicals to the plant, allowing more effective application with reduced quantities. (emphasis added)
Of course, there is plenty of fertilizer - of the organic variety - being spread around as the UAW and the auto makers begin their contract talks. It will be interesting to see the final agreement, as this could be a make-or-break contract for GM (and Ford and Chrysler).
See, you can't get that kind of yield without fertilizer, and I'm not talking about manure. Corn growers in the U.S. use about 137 pounds of nitrogen fertilizer per acre, according to the 2002 Agricultural Chemical Usage. They'll also need weed control — about a pound per acre of atrazine, the most popular herbicide. And let's not forget all the fresh water for irrigation.
So let's cut to the chase: To get enough ethanol from corn to power our cars, Americans would need to use almost 13 million tons more fertilizer, and dump more than 93.5 million tons of atrazine into the environment every year. (The potential health effects of atrazine read like the small print in a drug ad: congestion of the heart, lungs, and kidneys; low blood pressure; muscle spasms; weight loss; damage to adrenal glands. And that's in the short term.)
Still think ethanol is a "clean" fuel?
More fertilizer
"Enclave" has kinda the same flow as "Accord." Should be okay to use. Maybe they should have called it "EX," "SE," "ES-L," or "VP." Hehe... "Accord" doesn't sound very Japanese, but Enclave sounds American.
I think they need to bring back the Park Avenue name and LeSabre name.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's only clean to know-nothing politicians and to big business who'll make money selling ethanol--some of the same ones you'll see advertising on Sunday morning politician shows about how they too care about helping the people of our great country.
The fertilizer also ends up in the creeks and streams that feel many city's water supplies. Watch how upset the green, alcoholphilic folk get when the runoff pollutes the rivers around their area. Just remind them it's all for alcohol...
I think the ethanol produced from corn is just as "clean" as production of the batteries for hybrid cars, Prius, has been and for the paints on some cars that couldn't be used in this country because of EPA requirements, yet people buy those without thought to the pollution occurin "elsewhere."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But, what might be under the skin. In a recent issue of Autoweek, one of their people (Raynal) said that the Enclave "drives curiously like a Chevy Venture". Raynal said that the Enclave is supposedly a new Lambda platform, but he wonders how much was carried over from GM's dead minivans.
Raynal also said that the V6 is only semi-powerful enough and nowhere as smooth as an MDX (Acura) V6. Further, he said "There is an overall lack of robustness about the Enclave, but it drives nicely, with minimal body roll".
Guess that Buick/GM still has a way to go to match, much less beat, Honda/Acura's best-in-class MDX. But, perhaps GM is merely trying to meet/beat American brands in this category.
If we had 6 kids, there is absolutely no way any of them would be in the third row of an suv or crossover. Too dangerous in situations with rear-enders.
A distinctly bounded area enclosed within a larger unit: ethnic enclaves in a large city.
Guess it is a better name than calling it the Ghetto.
Maybe I need to take one of those sensitivity classes, as I did not know people get so upset if you dislike a name of a car model. Must be a lot of Escalading tension back in the confines of the Enclave. Can you imagine how things are going with UAW negotiations. :surprise: The Outlook is for heated discussion no doubt. Probably over the brand of soda served, or something. You know, or the name.
Loren
Just a thought,
Loren
While I think the Enclave looks nice, the MDX can sit 7. Don't know to many people with 6kids. No doubt the MDX is nice, but not cheap.
Granted I love the ability of my Suburban to sit 8 plus having room behind the 3rd row. We have two kids and we get together quite often with friends and family, so the extra capacity is used often.
That's no lie. You'd be shuffling them around with a 10 year old econoline!
Of course they will build it here. Why do you think the Oshawas plant is tooling up for Zetas?
Not sure who the guy is but he is an idiot if he thinks the Lamdas drove like the Venture.
On the drivers side door where it meets the passenger door is nearly a 1/4" off from being flush with the passenger door. Ironically, a friend showed up the other day in a 07 GP rental and it was the same way. It's not that way on the passenger side, so I can't imagine it was designed that way. "
Mostly wrong. The 3800 does not generate noticable torque steer and anyone who knows the stats wouldnt make such a claim. Its only producing 225 lb-ft which is far less than most cars. Typical of import loving people you dismiss facts that disprove your point. Rather or not you like the Impala ss or GP is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Camry did not set any new power standards when it went on sale last year. The Altima and GP offered 260hp from V6 engines and the V8 cars offered 303hp.
TONS of cars have door-dash panels that do not meet 100%, that is the rule instead of the exception. The new G35 is the same way. Please dont sit here and tell me this is exclusive to the "low quality" GP. My ex coworker had a 2006 GTP model and it was fine on the inside. The design wasnt the best but overall it was acceptable in terms of quality and feel. I have not seen a current generation GP with poor body panel fits and I doubt you have either. That car is made where the Impala/lacrosse are made and the plant has a reputation for quality. A quick look at the fit of those cars backs that up.
I mentioned the hybrid model- TWICE in fact. Believe me its not lost on me that the hybrid model was available and that is in fact the only significance of the 2007 camry. Other than that it merely became competitive because the old car was clearly outclassed by everything from the Fusion to the Accord. 22/31 economy is great, but only 2mpg better than comparable cars- hardly something that is going to save you thousands.
Ah, but you see, you are not thinking like a typical buyer. 2mpg IS a big deal. Maybe not to you, but trust me, even .5mpg is enough to make a statement, and it is a selling point. Especially when you've got class leading horsepower behind it.
thats a pretty ridiculous statement. Most reviews of the Enclave have been positive and put the vehicle on par with the RX and other luxury SUVs. The V6 isnt going to make a 4700 SUV a rocket, we all know that. The MDX is very expensive, has worse mileage, looks worse and is far smaller than the Enclave. I'll take the Buick. Oh and the MDX has a rough ride with the sports package.
2 MPG, at this time in history, is huge!
Putting aside the 7 air bags, the "perfect" side impact crash tests, unique features, even distinctive trim designs.
A good salesman can create a whole presentation around how a car that is not only more powerful than others, more efficient than others, but has 6 gears you can control automatically or manually, it has to be better.
A smart customer will put that in their memory bank. This is not something that can be made up. It's either a fact, or not.
I can sell someone a Camry just by having them sit in an LE sedans seat. Feel the cloth. Adjust the std. power seat. Is the steering wheel where you want it, because it can come closer. Really?
Either you want the best, or you don't.
DrFill
exactly. Thats like saying the 2008 CTS is better than the Camry. it should be considering the price difference. furthermore the MDX is a one trick pony, sure its sportier than the Enclave but that doesnt make it the better luxury crossover.
Please, just no Alpha or Beta cars released to the public.
The Aussie cars look pretty good and the RWD seems like something good. How will the MPG play into all this. Can these cars not only be a player now, but also fit into the future line up? BTW, the GTO with the more aggressive looking hood helped give the Holden more of the GTO look. Interior and Exterior look pretty tight.
Loren
ah but you dont see the fact that most people couldnt recite their EPA mileage numbers if you held a gun to their head. The camry's mileage is a nice bonus, but I assure you most camry owners are not buying based on 2mpg better mileage. BTW, the Altima has class leading V6 hp, not the camry. Overall class leading hp would come from Impala. But of course you probably wont count that because its from GM and its not a V6.
Sure they don't, and those competitors would even bother with the idea. Not because they can't either. That's the thing, those competitors managed to squeeze a bit more power out of a V6 with things like VVT and didn't have to worry about sacrificing fuel economy (or drivabilty for that matter).
Even GM figured it out when they released their HF3.6. but it wasn't until years after the competition was already doing that.
Now as far as the V8's go. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but with the final phase out of the 3800 (eventually) isn't it funny how those same models are now sporting the 5.3l V8? Are we going to be talking about that motor in 30 years like we do the 3.8?
And I just drove the Impala SS this weekend. Great engine, but it feels like a Lincoln Town car in turns. The car is clearly a size up from the mid-size leaders. It's over 200". Adds 300 lbs. It's a full-size car, and drives like one.
Altima has 1 more HP. Hardly a lead.
DrFill
really? I think not! give me a break, how much will that save you in a year if you drive 12k miles/year? Not much. Interestingly enough if I was to say the lambdas get 2mpg better mileage than some of their competitors I doubt you would find that advantage meaningful enough to justify their purchase over in import.
"Either you want the best, or you don't."
what exactly are you talking about? The camry is the best at mileage and...........mileage. Thats about it. it's not the best handling, the largest, the most affordable, the best looking or anything else. The camry and altima are basically a wash. In terms of interior design and materials the Passat still has it beat. In terms of styling the Fusion, Altima and Aura have it beat. Soon you can add Malibu to that list. The availability of features is severely restricted depending on models. for example, you cant get dual zone auto AC with the SE or a fold down seats. Since that is the only camry model I would ever consider I find that to be stupid. Not only should the SE offer both features, it should also dump the ground effects and get some 18" wheels and the camry should offer remote start.
Loren
Thanks for the reminder of the Altima. 269hp in the Camry is close enough to class leading imo. And being a 35% increase over the 2006 model, such a significant difference without sacrificing fuel economy is some serious effort on Toyotas part.
please dont go down this road unless you know what you speak of. Are you suggesting GM engines dont use VVT? Ever heard of the 3.6L DOHC V6 or the 3.5/3.9 OHV V6s? I guess you have not. The Impala's EPA mileage is only slightly worse than the old (and current) G35. Check it out for yourself. The reason is that the V8 doesnt have to work that hard to move a 3600lb car and that compensates for its huge size relative to the 3.5L VQ.
"Even GM figured it out when they released their HF3.6. but it wasn't until years after the competition was already doing that. "
I hate to bring up facts, but the Camry V6 didnt have VVT until the redesign. Sonata didnt until the 2006 model. The Fusion and Sebring still dont have it. In fact, only Honda has been offering VVT in mainstream cars for a long time. For the record, the G6 had the DOHC V6 back in 2006 which is the same year the camry got the VVT 3.5L V6.
Mileage is about way more than engine size, its about weight as well. For example, the mileage on the MDX is about the same as the trailblazer with V8 in spite of the fact that the MDX has a 3.7L V6 and 5 speed auto. the culprit is weight and the MDX's small V6 cant overcome that.
Altima/Accord/Camry they ARE the mid-size market, like Lexus/Mercedes/BMW are the luxury market.
They are the best, and the market chooses their favorite from among them. It has been this was for several years now.
Camry has the total package. It does everything well. Seats 5 well. Reliable. Good feature content. Power. Transmission. Economy. Looks good. Feels good. Good trunk. Safety features. Hybrid tech. Resale. Blahblahblahblah.
Whether you like, or you don't like it, learn to love it.
DrFill
Just trying to be helpful,
Loren
And I just drove the Impala SS this weekend. Great engine, but it feels like a Lincoln Town car in turns. The car is clearly a size up from the mid-size leaders. It's over 200". Adds 300 lbs. It's a full-size car, and drives like one.
Altima has 1 more HP. Hardly a lead. "
Didnt ask you the size of the Impala. I know how large it is but you fail to mention PRICE. The Impala starts in the low 20s and is very much priced to compete with V6 import cars. The Impala is no sports sedan but you were JUST singing the praises of the similarly soft Camry. Double standard? No, of course not. The Impala aint a BMW, but if you want family transport it will do the job just fine. Oh but wait, its not a good car because they sell a lot of them to police depts. I forgot! that is what is really key, fleet sales.
Altima has 2more hp than camry and last time I checked a lead is a lead. You made the "class leading" claim, not me. The camry is the 3rd most powerful car in this price class- well 4th if we throw in the Passat V6.
Crown Vic, MazdaSpeed, Eclipse......
Full-size sales are MUCH lower than mid-size sales for a reason.
DrFill
Loren
1. stability is standard on '08 SS, LTZ and LT2
2. V6 model gets same mileage as accord
3. I wouldnt call a car on pace for 350k sales(of any kind) a relic with little appeal.
4. even if factor out fleet sales (for everyone) the impala outsells other cars by a significant margin- including 6, Fusion, Sonata, Passat so the OFTEN repeated argument about the cars success being due to fleet sales alone is a crock.
I'm not spinning anything, look at the mileage numbers yourself. Most V6 cars average about 20mpg in magazine tests. The Impala SS is probably around 17mpg, not a huge difference and superior to most crossovers. Judging by the booming sales of 15mpg crossovers I would say your argument that people are super concerned about fuel economy in this age is way off. It's OK to buy an MDX, but the Impala SS is a gas guzzler? Got it.
"Thanks for the reminder of the Altima. 269hp in the Camry is close enough to class leading imo. And being a 35% increase over the 2006 model, such a significant difference without sacrificing fuel economy is some serious effort on Toyotas part."
Altima and accord get similar mileage. The Aura lags due to weight- its about 200lbs more than camry.
I said, they do, just not for years after the competition did. Jeeze man, settle down.
Tundras and Titans and Rams, all on the outside of the market, looking in.
F-150/Chevy GMC twins, they ARE the half ton truck market, like Lexus/Mercedes/BMW are the luxury market.
They are the best, and the market chooses their favorite from among them. It has been this was for several decades now.
F-150 has the total package. It does everything well. Seats 5 well. Reliable. Good feature content. Power. Transmission. Economy. Looks good. Feels good. Safety features. Resale. Blahblahblahblah.
Whether you like, or you don't like it, learn to love it.
Brother, the Camry is not the end-all for everybody. It's certainly not a bad car, but many poeple in the market for a mid-size sedan will surely choose something else. And it is, Sir, butt-ugly.
seriously, what are you talking about? outside the market? what does that even mean? The Impala outsells the Altima, btw so I'm confused as to how the Altima is "inside" the market and the Impala isnt. Of course this is another "import good- GM bad" argument of yours so I'm sure I shoudlnt be looking for any real justification.
"Camry has the total package. It does everything well. Seats 5 well. Reliable. Good feature content. Power. Transmission. Economy. Looks good. Feels good. Good trunk. Safety features. Hybrid tech. Resale. Blahblahblahblah."
You must sell Toyotas, that explains a lot. All the stuff you said can be said about the Altima. With exception of hybrid tech, the same could be said about Impala. Try again.
V6 will not get the same gas mileage as the Accord.
I know you would not call it a relic, but that doesn't change the reality.
I think the Yugo could outsell those cars you mentioned.
It is good to see stability control on the DoD beast of a car, so it will be tamed as required. This is a positive for it's occupants.
Loren
those are not family cars. I assume you know that.
"Full-size sales are MUCH lower than mid-size sales for a reason. "
Impala outsells all but two midsize cars. I assume you know that as well.
It's just another swipe by the baught and paid for import biased autoweek magazine. They have about as much credibility with me as does CR. :confuse:
-Rocky
Why the flock are you comparing the Imapla to a 7 passenger SUV? I don't know man, you've gone off on some weird tangent here... So you think a 17mpg daily driver is acceptable?
"Altima and accord get similar mileage."
No kidding. The Accord has always been a mileage leader, the Altima is a redesign, so it's natural to keep up with the competition (Camry). And I bet the new Accord will jump a few ticks higher and back into the lead.
But it has nothing to do with V8's or Impalas...
All GM CAN DO is throw a V8 in it, and hope it doesn't sink! Who wants a V8 now? Smart move!
DrFill
Did you read my post? apparently you didnt. The "competition" actually just started using VVT on V6 engines recently. Some of the competition still lacks VVT. You make these statements as if they are hard fact when they are not. The last gen Camry, Passat, Sonata, etc did not have VVT.
V6 will not get the same gas mileage as the Accord.
I know you would not call it a relic, but that doesn't change the reality.
I think the Yugo could outsell those cars you mentioned."
Little of that made any sense to me. I would love to know how you "know" the Impala cant match the mileage of the V6 Accord. I would also like to know how you can discount the Fusion, SOnata and Passat as bad cars that would be outsold by a Yugo. Typical cop out answer. If the Impala is a "relic" that sells 350k copies, so be it. Yeah you're right a car with 300hp, indepent suspecion, 18" wheels BOSE sound system, stability, onstar, remote start, XM radio, etc. is a real relic that is totally uncompetitive with cars like your beloved Accord. It would be nice if you actually provided some basis for calling it a relic.
"Altima and accord get similar mileage."
No kidding. The Accord has always been a mileage leader, the Altima is a redesign, so it's natural to keep up with the competition (Camry). And I bet the new Accord will jump a few ticks higher and back into the lead.
But it has nothing to do with V8's or Impalas... "
let me recap for you. You were touting the clear superiority of the Camry over its rivals and I was merely pointing out there is no huge advantage.
as for crossovers, I was addressing your argument that the Impala SS is a loser in todays market because fuel prices have made everyone mileage conscious. I was merely pointing out that the success of large, heavy crossovers proves that to be incorrect. Considering the Impala gets better mileage than all but the smallest SUVs I fail to see how the SS is a nonstarter with today's gas prices as you stated.
"So you think a 17mpg daily driver is acceptable? "
people that buy V8 cars and crossovers certainly do. What's your point? Do you feel a Honda Pilot is unacceptable as a daily driver? Just curious since it probably gets about 17mpg on a good day.