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Which half?
2007 models
Toyota Tundra $0-$3,500 0%
Highlander Hybrid $0-$2,000 0-3.9%
Sequoia $0-$2,000 1.9-3.9%
Highlander (excl. Hybrid) $0-$2,500 0-3.9%
4Runner $0-$2,000 0-3.9%
Sienna $0-$2,000 0-3.9%
Tacoma $0-$1,000 3.9-5.9%
Corolla $0-$1,000 0-5.9%
Matrix $0-$1,000 0-5.9%
Camry Solara $0-$1,000 2.9-5.9%
Camry (excl. Hybrid) $0-$500 3.9%
In looking at GM most are near $1000 just like Toyota except some old models like the Trailblazer and classic trucks. There are a few though like the DTS that are getting a bit more help. No longer does GM have 3-4 times the incentives that Toyota has. I have bolded the ones that seem out of line.
Buick Rainier,
Rendezvous $2,500-$4,000 0-6.9%
LaCrosse, Lucerne $1,500 4.9-6.9%
Terraza $500 4.9-6.9%
Cadillac XLR, XLR-V $5,000 0%
DTS $4,000 0%
STS, STS-V, CTS1, CTS-V,
Escalade $3,000 0%
SRX $2,000 0-1.9%
Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
Classic, Silverado 3500
Classic $4,000 0-4.9%
TrailBlazer $2,500-$4,000 0-6.9%
Silverado 1500 Classic
reg. cab, Silverado 1500
Classic ext. cab, Silverado
1500 Classic Crew Cab $3,000 0-4.9%
Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe $2,000 4.9-6.9%
Silverado 1500 $1,500 0-6.9%
Silverado 2500HD,
Silverado 3500HD $1,500 3.9-6.9%
Impala, Equinox $1,500 4.9-6.9%
HHR $750-$1,500 4.9-6.9%
Colorado $500-$1,500 4.9-6.9%
Malibu Maxx, Express,
Monte Carlo, Cobalt $1,000 4.9-6.9%
Malibu $500-$1,000 4.9-6.9%
Aveo, Uplander $500 4.9-6.9%
GMC Sierra 2500HD Classic,
Sierra 3500 Classic $4,000 0-4.9%
Envoy $2,500-$4,000 0-6.9%
Sierra 1500 Classic reg. cab,
Sierra 1500 Classic ext. cab,
Sierra 1500 Classic
Crew Cab $3,000 0-4.9%
Yukon $2,000 4.9-6.9%
Sierra 1500 $1,500 0-6.9%
Sierra 2500HD,
Sierra 3500HD $1,500 3.9-6.9%
Canyon $500-$1,500 4.9-6.9%
Savana $1,000 4.9-6.9%
Acadia – 5.9-7.9%
HummerH2 $3,000 0-2.9%
H3 $2,500 0-2.9%
Pontiac Grand Prix, Torrent $1,500 4.9-6.9%
G6 $1,000-$1,500 4.9-6.9%
G5, Vibe $1,000 4.9-6.9%
Saab 9-7X $5,000 0%
9-3, 9-5 $4,000 0-6.9%
Saturn Vue $2,000 1.9-5.9%
Ion $1,500 1.9-5.9%
Aura $1,000 1.9-5.9%
Outlook $1,000 5.9-7.9%
Relay $500 4.9-7.9%
Well, the H2 is based on the Suburban platform, so anything that can fit in a fullsized pickup or Suburban should be able to fit in the H2. Now the H2 has a lot less front and rear overhang than a Suburban, and probably a shorter wheelbase, so that might make it look a lot smaller than a 'Burb, but the engine bay is most likely the same.
As for the H3, I think you're right, that it is based on the Colorado/Canyon. Originally it came with a 3.5 5-cyl, but they recently enlarged it to a 3.7, either by boring or stroking. And I just looked...indeed, for 2008, they did manage to force a 5.3 V-8 in there as an option! I wonder how they managed that?! I guess it's possible that the H3, while based on the Colorado/Canyon, is still altered pretty significantly.
The situation in the Midwest is a heck of a lot more complicated than people buying foreign nameplates. Heck, if Toyota opens a plant in the US and GM moves one to Mexico who is putting the American worker out of a job?
On the .3 of a problem front. I will say up front that I don't believe that having had experience in both foreign and domestic. If domestics have moved up that far in the past few years it will prove out but they have done nothing in my experience to automatically shuffle on over. I won't be buying soon so they will get their chance to prove themselves reliable over time before I'm buying.
That said, today I have a rental car while my daughter's car is in the shop. An 07 Malibu. You could give me a brand new example of this and say it's an even trade for my 00 Accord as long as I drive it and keep it for three years and I wouldn't take it. What an uninspiring, dull car.I know all the buzz is on its successor. Let's hope it lives up to that. My main point here is that even if reliability were dead even I would buy an Accord over this thing 8 days a week.
Hmmm, I guess maybe that's also because the 3.6 is a 60-degree block, that they were able to get it to fit? All I remember is that I read somewhere that GM couldn't get the old 90-degree 4.3 V-6, which was a sawed-off 350, to fit in there because it was too wide.
Still, I wonder how wide a DOHC 60-degree V-6 is compared to a 90-degree pushrod? Seems to me that the thicker, Hemi-sized heads of a DOHC would offset the narrower block. But then, the wider block would still be wider down low, and maybe that's where the clearance issue was?
I'm kind of focusing on a combination of a fairly low price, good fuel economy, but still balancing that with something that's still roomy enough for me to feel comfortable in. At this point, I'm leaning towards the Altima. Or maybe even a Civic...I have found that I fit pretty well in them. But on the flip side, I have thought about a slightly used GM product, like maybe an Impala or Malibu. Even if the Altima and especially the Civic would get better economy, I'd probably save a bundle on purchase price.
But I dunno if I could tolerate a Malibu on a long-term basis! :P
I found the Malibu to be a larger Civic in size. I continually think what I'd replace one of my cars with if an accident totalled one today. I know I can go to two stores and find a used GM product that has been checked out and will drive for a decade of life.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Based on my experience with both vehicles I'd definitely take the Impala over the Malibu. I did OK with the last Impala rental and that was before the refresh.
The I4 and I5 Atlas derivatives got a 95.5 mm bore (from 93) for 2007.
Big talk is always interesting. I had said I'd never own another Ford after a 351 Windsor motor I had wore timing chains early. Switched to GM. Then I won a Ford in a contest. So I went back on my words. Although this car had problems that I found as I checked it over after I owned it, I found it was fun to drive and a nice change.
So I always have to take the "I hate that car" statements from someone used to a different brand with a grain. It usually is the alien arrangement of parts, the plastic isn't painted to look like soft-touch, the parking brake is in the wrong place, the seats are too soft or too hard, etc. After someone drives a normal model, not a stripped down rental, for a while, their views change.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I always figured the Altima Coupe was made specifically to lure you out of the Intrepid.
This could well be the fact that it is cheapened beyond belief (though it at least has AC, cruise and power windows, which the Cobalt they first wanted to put me in didn't). I don't like the transmission on it in that it kicks hard into second. Other than that it's fine. Once you are up to speed it's quiet - both the tranny and the engine.
I've driven good rentals and, I don't even want to say bad as much as dull, rentals. This is in the latter category.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Maybe new for Buick but an old chassis, engines, and trans. Why on earth they didn't put the 3.6 6speed in the base Lucerne is beyond me. Then the CXS should have gotten the 292HP version of the V8. Putting the 3.8 4 speed was/is a big mistake in an otherwise nice vehicle.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
To be fair the car does have 27K on it - that's a lot of rental miles.
I also expected better of the tranny. It didn't do it every time. I'm going to have this thing a few days so I'll keep you posted.
Loren
The appreciation undergone by housing - especially in California and parts of Florida and the Northeast - over the past few years is not sustainable.
Housing prices are not being "devalued;" they have been much too high, and that bubble is now undergoing a much-needed correction.
It hurts the auto industry because many people pulled equity from their homes to finance new vehicle purchases, and that is not possible without ever-escalating housing prices. But the housing bubble was not sustainable, and its collapse is an entirely normal (and healthy) development.
It's a desperate move. Actually, EVERY time Chrysler does some unprecented thing with their powertrain warranty, it's an attempt to bolster sales, make up for some past transgression, etc. First time they did this was in 1962, when they offered a 5/50 powertrain warranty. Chrysler's groundbreaking 1957 models were very troublesome, and as a result, buyers stayed away in droves in later years, so the warranty was boosted. In contrast, the warranty on a 1957 car was something like 3 months or 3,000 miles. :surprise:
At some point, the 5/50 warranty went away, but I believe it was reinstated in the 1970's, again in the 1980's, and then even bumped out to 7/70K later in the 80's. Then, once sales were good again, they dropped it.
Some time in the 2002 model year, they went from a 3/36K bumper to bumper warranty to 7/100K on powertrain. But as soon as sales started picking up again, I think they reduced it.
I'd be really interested to know what all the terms and conditions are for "lifetime". I tend to keep cars for a fairly long time. I will have had my '00 Intrepid 8 years in November, and it has about 134,000 miles on it. I also have two 1979 Chryslers, a '68 Dart, and a '57 DeSoto. Heck, they would've been really screwed if they offered lifetime on the '57's! :surprise: Or, maybe not. As far as I know, my '57 has never had any powertrain work done to it, other than maintenance stuff like tuneups, tranny servicings, etc.
I would think an Impala or Monte Carlo would be an easy transition from Intrepid, more so than the Malibu, in a used car. Or what about the LaCrosse?
Loren
The 3.8V6 is something I would consider if buying a used Camaro, as it had 200HP and good gas mileage. That said, when starting fresh, as in let's remake Buick and Saturn, they reached back instead of looking ahead. Sad. Lots of potential for GM products, if today they had what is promised for tomorrow. Or at least, had given today the best, and jettisoned the past. As for cars which are nearly as good, dang that is old news. Recall the line where GM or Ford is nearly the same for less money. The car buyer wanting nearly as good can buy a very capable Sonata or other Hyundai with the longest warranty on the market. GM and Ford should be producing that which is better and more interesting. When they have done so, it seems to have worked. I see Mustangs and Corvettes as still pretty popular. Ford does the same as GM. They put the FiveHundred out there in the market with too little HP and too plain of looks, and wondered what went wrong. It could have been one of the best. Let Hyundai play the game of , " gee look we have an Accord like car for less money." Too many 80%-85% as good stuff out there to sort through.
Loren
I hope the love affair with the auto is not over. Are there really too few people wanting sporty cars to build such coupes these days. People no longer consider the drive as fun? I see so many SUV's and other basic transporters of people, I wonder how many still care about the looks and handling of cars.
Loren
Are they basically admitting that the SRT models are designed to only last 1/100th of a lifetime?
Yeah, I do like the 300M. But I dunno if I'd get another LH car, just because I've had my Intrepid for so long now and I think I'd rather just have a change of pace. This, coming from a guy who totaled a '69 Dart and found a '68 for sale the very next day and bought it. And who has not one but TWO '79 New Yorkers! Well hey, I never said I was consistent! :P I'm a bit leery of used Chryslers these days too, because of the potential tranny problems. While the tranny in my Intrepid has been troublefree, I've also had the car since it was new and had it serviced every 30,000 miles. I guess I'd just be a bit concerned with a used one though, unless it had all its service records and I could see that the previous owner was a bit over-protective about servicing.
I don't mind the new 300, but like the Charger better. But I'm not exactly in LOVE with either one. For one thing, I'm not too fond of the interiors. It seems like Chrysler and GM did a complete role reversal with interior quality over the past two years. Back when I bought my Intrepid, I did look at a 2000 Impala and a 2000 Malibu, and I thought the Intrepid was a major step up with regards to interior quality. But in 2002, D-C started de-contenting the Intrepid, making it look cheaper inside, and the 300/Charger seem to have upped the ante with overdoing it on the plastic. In contrast, GM seemed to clean up the Malibu's interior for 2004 to the point that, while not head of the pack, at least isn't the embarrassment it once was. And I thought the 2006 Impala's interior was a huge improvement over the 2000-2005. Except, somehow, it seems like the '06+ back seat ended up tighter than the '00-05.
As for the LaCrosse, I'm not really sold on its styling. The whole Taurus/Jaguar blend just doesn't do it for me. I actually prefer the style of the Regal/Century, although the LaCrosse appears to be built and finished much better. And for some reason, the W-body in general has always seemed cramped in the back seat to me. This used to be a concern for me, because while I was rarely a passenger in the back seat of my own car, I'd regularly have passengers back there, and I hate it when I feel someone's knees poking into the seatback. But these days I don't really have a posse to haul around anymore, so a motel-room sized back seat isn't that crucial.
Still, the Impala just doesn't feel that much bigger inside to me than the Malibu, even though it's a lot bigger on the outside, so that's probably why I'd at least consider the Malibu. Still, I'd guess the larger Impala would be smoother, more comfortable, and quieter.
I haven't had a coupe for a daily driver since my '86 Monte Carlo got t-boned about 9 years ago, and got kinda used to the practicality of a sedan. But I'll admit, I think that new Altima coupe is really sexy.
Isn't a coupe sometimes considered a midlife crisis thing? I'm 37...am I old enough to have one of those?
Wow, since when does 27K miles equal a lot of mileage???; rental, raced, abused, regularly driven, or otherwise? Most good motors are barely broken in by 27K miles!!!!
It's people that think like you do that probably allow certain publications like JD Power to proclaim so many more models as "reliable" than does a more legit source like Consumer Reports.
I think the main thing that impressed me about the Civic is that I can get the front seat adjusted to where I'm comfortable, and then get in the back seat and still fit fairly comfortably...moreso than the Malibu or even Impala, surprisingly. The Malibu and Impala are wider inside and the trunks are larger, but I guess I was just impressed that a car that small could accommodate four people my size that well. Previously, the only small car I found that could do that was the Dodge Neon. And well, I'm not going there! :P
BTW, I should note after ranting about the Malibu that it's not a blanket condemnation of all things previous generation GM. My dad, who for years leased DeVilles (I really liked the last one - much more fun than floaty while the earlier ones were the opposite) he now has (despite the fact that he doesn't drive anymore) a loaded up Buick Century - probably an 04. While it still has characteristics that aren't exactly my cup of tea it is a solid, competent car that I can't complain about.
The real shame of it is that it's sitting up at his house doing nothing right now while I am paying for a lesser rental..... It would take up most of my day (two hours each way) to go fetch it.
Wimp!
To be fair, rental cars probably do take more abuse than a typical, privately owned automobile. I remember reading that the general rule of thumb for police cars was that one mile was equivalent to two miles on a civilian car. I wonder if it's similar for rentals?
You can do a lot of damage in 27,000 miles if the oil or other fluids never get checked and are allowed to run low. Although my ex-wife swears that she took an Olds Calais quad 4 up to about 80-90,000 miles without ever changing the oil, and it was still running fine when it got repo'ed after two years. I'm sure that oil got added somewhere along the line though...even with minimal wear, I'm sure the original 5 quarts would burn off well before 80-90K miles!
Actually my comment on the mileage is more about the condition of the interior which, while not terrible, shows signs of wear. I don't think you could get someone to quick detail it and pass it off as gently used.
That being said, I think rental agencies actually provide solid maintenance (maybe not upkeep) but mechanical maintenance is fairly religious I believe.... at least at Enterprise.
I know most people would disagree with me on this one, but with older cars at least, I always found coupes easier to get into and out of, and to have better visibility. Now I'm talking about bigger cars where there was a coupe AND sedan available, not some low-slung sporty little thing like a Corvette, Camaro, XKE, etc.
Back in the day, 4-door cars, even big ones, had some pretty tiny doors, and if you're tall, that makes them harder to get into and out of. 4-doors would have the advantage in tight parking spaces, though.
As for visibility, well I usually sit with the seat all the way back, and in every 4-door car I've ever driven, with the exception of the 1979-81 full-sized Chrysler R-body, that puts my head about even with the B-pillar, which blocks vision to the side. Or worse, with the way many of these modern cars curve in, it makes me tend to lean in toward the center a bit.
Finally, up until relatively recently, coupes were usually slicker and sportier looking than their sedan counterparts, with the exception of some 4-door hardtops where they actually used the 2-door hardtop roofline, creating, in essence, a 4-door coupe. With my '57 DeSoto, for example, which is a hardtop coupe, it's much slicker looking than the 4-door sedan. Ditto my '68 Dart. And even my '80 Malibu coupe had a sleeker roofline and overall profile compared to the sedan version. But these days, with all the cab-foward effect going on with windshields and dashboards, and the low drag coefficients they shoot for, just about any old 4-door these days is pretty slick.
My dad, who for years leased DeVilles (I really liked the last one - much more fun than floaty while the earlier ones were the opposite) he now has (despite the fact that he doesn't drive anymore) a loaded up Buick Century - probably an 04.
My Dad has an '03 Regal LS that he bought a few years ago, at my suggestion. He was 57 at the time, and I teased him that he was just old enough to buy a Buick! :P I've driven it a few times, and it's not a bad car. It sits up higher than my Intrepid, and with its power seat, has a wider range of motion than my Trep, which is a stripper model. And here's something ironic...the fit and finish is horrible on the car, probably more like your typical 70's domestic than something for the new millenium. But when you close the doors or trunk, it does have a nice, solid feel to it. So I guess it's more like a cinder block than a Faberge egg!
Overall I still prefer my Intrepid, but if my Dad gave me the Regal, I wouldn't turn it down.
SRTs are marketed as "performance cars" which would indicate to some of us that their owners will abuse them by pushing them to their limits more than a "normal" auto.
Please pick up the Chrysler warranty thread over in the It's official - Cerberus buys Chrysler discussion.
I have owned old man's cars, sports cars, strange cars, common cars, sports cars, but never a truck. Bet none of you have ever driven a Ford Taunus :surprise: Heck, my Olds Achieva was almost as rare
Loren
The Accord coupes indeed look nice but I'm quite fine with the sedan.
On the down side, the car stinks. No, not as in "GM stinks" or anything like that. I think the previous driver must have died in it... Not quite that bad but there's something there. I think I will try Enterprise again in the morning and ask them to do better.
Another thing that surprised me is that it came with virtually no gas. I'm used to take it full and bring it back full.
My rental Ion had stains on the seats, and was a half tank of gas. They use to rent with full tanks. Are these guys slipping or what? They use to be good at full gas and clean cars. Those I rented from my city, some years ago, seemed very clean and in great shape. Always liked Enterprise. Please, don't ya let us down. - Loren
Corolla and Matrix had $750 cash, but no rate.
Toyota incentives are about one-third what the domestics offer, so if they pump up one model, nobody should say anything. Toyota is just trying to keep up.
DrFill
Toyota DOES get the benefit of the doubt, from the well-informed because they NEVER give vehicles away. The doemstics have to have a raging Fire Sale just to saty in business at this point. About half of Toyota's lineup has no incentives at all!
5 models are half (your description) of Toyotas models???
What about
Toyota Tundra $0-$3,500 0%
Highlander Hybrid $0-$2,000 0-3.9%
Sequoia $0-$2,000 1.9-3.9%
Highlander (excl. Hybrid) $0-$2,500 0-3.9%
4Runner $0-$2,000 0-3.9%
Sienna $0-$2,000 0-3.9%
Tacoma $0-$1,000 3.9-5.9%
Corolla $0-$1,000 0-5.9%
Matrix $0-$1,000 0-5.9%
Camry Solara $0-$1,000 2.9-5.9%
Camry (excl. Hybrid) $0-$500 3.9%
Seems a bit more than half.
Toyota incentives are about one-third what the domestics offer, so if they pump up one model, nobody should say anything. Toyota is just trying to keep up.
Well the data does not agree with that (at least not GM) but you can believe what you want. Of course you are making assumptions for your own location which may not match the rest of the country.
Per the data the Cobalt has $1000 while the Corolla has $1000 and/or 0-5.9% rate. Seems the same to me. Well Corolla is 0-$1000, but I have no data on where that 0 is. Do you think I made up all that data? Not worth the time.
Matrix has $1000, while the Pontiac Vibe has $500. So Toyota has twice the incentive on the same vehicle.
these were the two toyotas you picked to compare.
As a side note, Ford just announced a 2nd qtr profit. Now what are they going to say to the UAW??
I don't think anyone's going to win this game because it varies by location.