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$35k-$48K too much?? That is the price of SUV's today. And they still sell pretty darn well with gas over $3. I guess elite is a strong word but there I am. Never thought of me that way. I am just a retired engineer.
Now a Mercedes may indeed be outsold by Caddy. Most are seen as expensive to buy and maintain, and a real problem came up with current reliability figures over the last decade say. So far, the most reliable has been the rather cool little SLK sports car. The BMW cars are legendary for performance, but likewise for cost of ownership down the road. So it is easy to see more limited sales compared to Cadillacs for those with less money to spend. And a used Cadillac DTS is really low priced compared to say a used BMW5 or 7, when cost only is a consideration. The BMW3 sells to those wanting a nice looking, great handling, RWD, car of class for around the same price a you would pay for Caddy or Lexus / Infinity. While I do like the CTS, or current CTS, the car is not something which I would pay the same price for as the BMW3. It doesn't mean it is bad, or a non-runner as a car to consider, but it is nonetheless something I see as a $30 or less car. There is nothing so special to it, other than shape, to command more $$$.
How good is a Cadillac, for those wanting a seven to ten year car? So far, from the data I have seen, the CTS is holding up well. The rest of the Caddy line ??? Are we looking at a premium car like a Lexus, Acura, Infinity, Mercedes, BMW, or even a Volvo for durability for the long haul? Has the Northstar proven to be as good or better than the competition over the long run?
Loren
Loren
http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/
Add to this the fact that the full size trucks like the Tahoe have been outfitted and designed to be rugged vehicles. People's expectations in this regard are NOT likely to change, so any changes that dramatically reduce towing capacity will not be well received. GM probably understands this - perhaps not, but probably they do.
I could be wrong, but that is my take.
US pricing clarification
July 28th, 2007 - by swade · 2 Comments
Saab USA did their press release with pricing information yesterday, but I had some pricing info for you all around a week ago. It’s only now that I’ve read bothems a bit closer closer that I’ve realised there’s some differences between the two.
Edmunds also have some pricing info that’s a little inaccurate as well, as they’ve overinflated the price increase.
So let clear everything up here.
The MSRP I originally showed for the 9-3 2.0T Sport Sedan was $27,640. However, I neglected to include the freight charge of $745, which brings the base up to $28,385 as it’s advertised on the release and at Edmunds.
Edmunds, however, have written it up as an increase of more that $2,000 over the outgoing model, which isn’t the case. The price they’ve used to base that on is the non-freight 2007 price of $26,250. With the same freight charge included, the actual base price for the 2007 model was $26,995.
What this all boils down to is a 2007-2008 price rise of $1,390 for the 2.0T and a rise of $1,025 for the Aero Sport Sedan. Increases on other variants are similar.
Here’s the full list, with the $745 freight charge added on.
Saab 9-3 Sedan 2.0T - $27,640 + 745 = $28,385
Saab 9-3 Sedan Aero - $34,620 + 745 = $35,365
Saab 9-3 SportCombi 2.0T - $28,885 + 745 = $29,630
Saab 9-3 SportCombi Aero - $35,520 + 745 = $36,265
Saab 9-3 Convertible 2.0T - $38,965 + 745 = $39,710
Saab 9-3 Convertible Aero - $44,920 + 745 = $45,665
The previous pricing entry also gave price information about packages and options.
http://www.trollhattansaab.net/
What this means to me ?
What it means to me is edmunds.com commonly makes accusations with out doing a little fact finding home work. :confuse:
-Rocky
DrFill
The 335i, I believe starts out at $38K and change not $32K.
-Rocky
I'm thankful the new 08' 9-3 isn't a Bimmer, then I'd have to stare at a butt that is flat out Bangle ugly. The new 1 series is the only car that looks okay from BMW. The rest look like something another blind Scion designer would come up with.
The bottom line is IMHO the new 08' Saab 9-3 is the best midsize all around car money can buy. :shades:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Well may be by 2010 you will get your wish with the next G6 ? :shades:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Loren
Loren
If you'll use the Contact Us link in Help below, you can get that info to the right department and they'll fix the prices.
Yes like most european cars it's reliability isn't class leading but at least GM, is standing behind them with covering them under it's power train warranty.
Saab is cool in that it is, or at least was, so different. I just can't afford price in and out, and possible quirks in-between. Definitely would be one to consider when all the bugs are out and the resale is solid.
I like I said like to be different. I guess that is the premium one has to pay but it's not like your getting ripped-off choosing a Saab, as your automobile. I guess this new model has given me the Saab fever. I think the XWD, 11-speaker Bose 5.1, Swivel headlamps, Ventilated Seats, AC glovebox, and the fact that the "Black Turbo" will be coming soon also has contributed to the fever. :P
Prices about $25K for the Turbo Four seem a bit steep.
huh ? :confuse: It's not like your buying a bargain basement camcord. :surprise:
If they make a performance version of the New Malibu, with the 3.6 engine, will it handle and perform overall as good as the Saab 9-3?
I suppose it's possible ???? We can see what that will look like with the 08' Pontiac G6 GXP another very HOTT car from the General. I'm in love with the new GXP G6 with it's Hammerhead Spoilerin black. :shades: I just think the 30 hp. deficit and not having all the track inspired suspension components that Saab offer's will yield a noticeable gap of difference.
I suppose there are the other qualities to consider, so Saab may remain one notch above, even if the numbers look similar.
Well as we know so far their is nothing coming from G6 GXP/Malibu SS that will come close to matching XWD. XWD is the feature that leaves plain FWD/RWD in the dust.
-Rocky
I'm not frusterated with you, Karen, Kirstie, Pat, ya know the hosts that monitor the boards unless you guys are the ones who don't verify the info ??????? I guess it wouldn't of ticked me off so much if the word "modest" wouldn't of been used in the What this means to you: comment.
Sure the 08' Saab 9-3 isn't all new but it has received a significant amount of options and standard equipment over this current generation. I can't see how those increases are modest thus I didn't waste time to jump down their throat when I see an oppertunity. I guess the Saab brand I'm extra sensitive about as it is a struggling GM brand and doesn't need help from smart asses to get killed off. :mad:
If you'll use the Contact Us link in Help below, you can get that info to the right department and they'll fix the prices.
If the comments are respectful, I'd be more than glad to assist the editors in the future.
-Rocky
I think Saab fans have been mostly disappointed in GM's management of Saab in the last couple of years - lots of comments around the boards about how they've merely rebranded GM rides. Like this one:
smokennedy, "The Future of Saab?" #1087, 12 May 2007 6:10 am
I don't keep up with the sedans but the 9-7x isn't generating a lot of comments and the 9-6x was a non-starter out of the gate. Modest may be an understatement!
Hey, recall the Sonett?
LOOK HERE!
Loren
The fact remains if it wasn't for GM, Saab probably would of been out of business by the mid 90's. In the past car company's could get away with having model specific platforms but with all the competition and the sheer cost to develop platforms you gotta have enough volume to justify it. Problem is Saab, is a low volume brand that rely's heavily on niche buyers. Sure it's lost alot of it's quirky Saab, tradition but I also think at the same time it's gained a lot of traction by appealing to a broader new clientel like myself.
I don't keep up with the sedans but the 9-7x isn't generating a lot of comments and the 9-6x was a non-starter out of the gate.
The 9-7X, has the highest resale value in it's class I just recently read some where. I don't know a whole lot a bout the 9-6X, so I'll have to learn more about it before I comment.
Modest may be an understatement!
STEVE !!!!!!
-Rocky
Just my $0.02
The Sonett, is a pretty nice "old" car. Never saw one before as you know my knowledge on old cars isn't nearly as great as most of my elder's here on edmunds. Well Fintail, for a youngster does know a lot about old cars.
-Rocky
Oh well maybe their is hope for the future as GM, will want to add features to keep up with the competition.
-Rocky
Huh? Although I have my feelings about the Lucerne, (3.8 motor in the base) the price is right on with other large sedans. Think of the Avalon (29 - 38K), loaded up Azeras (32k), 300 (up to 43K), 500/Taurus (believe or not 34K fully loaded). Figure in the incentives and fully loaded may go out the door less than many Avalons/300.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
That's exactly my take on the pricing and the 3 levels of automobile offered in the Lucerne. The
daveok7 said: When GM does have a sales success with a great new car like the Lucerne, they will continue to raise the price until they kill it's success and then have to cut production, lose market share in that division,
I take that as someone who doesn't understand the lure of a new model and then the slow deterioration in sales as the car becomes more common in the marketplace. Prices go up ya after year unless content is taken out of cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
DrFill
It is extremely good! My 1989 Cadillac Brougham is approaching it's 19th year and my 2002 Seville STS shows no signs of age or wear. Heck, I still see plenty of 20 to 30 year old Cadillacs out there.
I also look at the cost of repairing and replacing. Plus Camry and ES, Avalon earlier, seem to have some real problems with those transmissions. I can refer you to posts on Edmunds-search.
>Could this also be proving that there was a lot of hot air in the original prices that the used market adjusted appropriately?
Resale values are the value in the eyes of used car buyers along with some manipulation by the new car sales people. Are you trying to say you think any car with drops in resale value after a couple of years that are greater than average should just lower their price on the current new models? Ridiculous. Did you buy Enron stock when it was doing so well before reality hit? After all, it was going up in price very nicely (of course the insiders were selling :sick: ).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Toyota Avalon, when introduced, was a great car at a really good price. Basically the price of a V6 Camry. Today is less than stellar styling, with an astronomical price. The Camry (once the transmission gremilins are gone) is the better value. When the next Consumer Reports comes out, I wonder how bad it will show the transmission problems to be? You get those here of course, which had a problem, and will post about said problems, as they should. On the other hand, this is a high volume car, so how many have no problem. The original problems are noted by the company. Continuing problems, I have no idea about. I was not interested in one for various reasons, so never road tested the car. Interior, IMHO, was a bit less than expected.
Toyota, like GM, has had some overpriced cars over time. The Celica, which was a neat little sports coupe, simply got to pricy. The base sticker car were never to be found. The engine HP did not really keep up with the times.
Loren
Maybe you agree that the best way to combat falling sales of a vehicle is to raise prices higher and higher. If so, I would suggest you enroll in Econ. 101 for a real eye opening.
Loren
GM's public relations staff. In fact, with slogans like those you could also be successful on their marketing staff as well.
It's happened before.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Perhaps you can tell us your qualifications for being an expert on the international car business and specifically marketing in the US. Degrees? Perhaps you have an MBA?.
>If so, I would suggest you enroll in Econ. 101 for a real eye opening.
Did you even read my first response?
Perhaps you can tell us your qualifications for being an expert on the international car business and specifically marketing in the US.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I agree with nvbanker's post. I would think that as Cadillac is making better cars now but public response has not caught up that this would be an excellent time to pick up a gently used recent model.
Wow thats a broad statement. Are you to tell me that all large sedans are "sucker buys" as they are all mostly in the 28 - 35K range? Many of us just want a bigger car... so that leaves us with few choices outside the luxury market. I love my '06 Avalon XLS and found it a (relative)bargain at 34K with all the equipment I want (don't care about laser cruise and Nav) I have mentioned many times on the "large sedan comparision forum" that I may very well have a Lucerne if it was offered the 3.6 6 speed. The V8 is nice but is a bit of a gas hog, and the 3.8 4 speed is antiquated and slow.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
You're preaching to the choir here... in my previous post I mentioned that I did buy an Avalon over a Lucerne. I just don't think the Lucerne is an overpriced vehicle. The 3.8 FWIW has many fans and if you can find a moderately optioned V8 it may be one of the cheaper ways to get into a V8 sedan if thats your thing. The only V8 sedan I know under 30K is a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis and I am not even going down that road.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Looks like most family cars are now SUVs and Crossdressers. And after looking over the interior hip and leg room for the back seat, I see what you mean. I wondered why people got an Avalon over the Camry. I can see your point. My all time favorite years for Toyota style go back to the Euro copy years of '92 -'96 for the Camry/Avalon. I know, people said it was sleepy or not jazzy, but I thought it was classy like a Mercedes. As for the '06, yes I am kinda liking that look too, and a real improvement over the '04 for the Avalon.
The Impala is always touted as the low cost bigger car option. It seems the leg room is shorter, but the hip room more. Not too expensive with the 3.9 engine, and the usual discounting. Did you consider the FiveHundred at the time? HP is a bit low, but all in all a lot of car. And the Chrysler 300, large doors and all.... what ya think of those cars? I noticed the steering to be a little light, but handling not too bad for a larger car. Engine ( 3.5V6 ) is adequate. For me the Accord or Aura is right sized, as most of the time I have no passengers on the rear seat.
Loren
Even in its base form, the Avalon looks like it's a lot of car for the money, with a powerful but fairly efficient 3.5 V-6 and a decent interior. Roomy, comfortable car, too.
As for GM's 3.8, I dunno if it would even benefit from a 5- or 6-speed transmission. It's pretty torquey, with some pretty good low-end grunt, where I think the Toyota 3.5 is more of a revver. Some engines will benefit more from extra gears than others, and I just have a feeling that GM's 3.8 pushrod wouldn't benefit all that much. As it stands, with the 4-speed, once you get into top gear it's revving so low that any slower and it would probably stall out, so it's not like it would benefit much from a taller top gear.
I think I've also read a few comments that when Toyota went from a 4-speed to a 5-speed automatic with the 4-cyl Camry, there really wasn't much of a performance/fuel economy improvement.
-Rocky