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And is readily outselling all competition
Sunday, August 12, 2007.
On our way home from running errands, our 2004 Saturn VUE AWD V6 just stopped running. Wouldn't start, either.
Had it towed to the dealership. Dealer poked and prodded, hooked it up to the machines and drove it for 45 minutes.
Could not duplicate.
We are now driving a 2008 Saturn VUE.
Sometime in early June, 2007. I drove my recently purchased 1979 New Yorker to work, and it did fine. I bought this car for $500, knowing that it had problems with the automatic choke. Usually, that just means that a car will be cranky when the weather's cold. Little did I know this car had just the opposite in store for me. It was a horribly hot day that day. I remember the car would crank and crank and crank but wouldn't start. I tried forcing the choke mostly closed, which helped one other time it got like this with me, but no luck.
Fortunately, a line of thunderstorms came through and cooled everything down considerably. When my buddy drove me back out there a couple hours later, the danged thing fired right up, almost like it was *alive*, and taunting me. Oh, and that danged radio would only pick up disco stations...
As for disabled vehicles, going home today, I did see an early 90's (like 1991-94 I guess) Mazda Protege on the roadside with its flashers on. Might've just been out of gas, stopped for some other reason, or it could have been something worse.
Yeah, but you were hinting around in Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous the week before so you jinxed yourself, LOL.
I had two breakdowns in the early 90s - both around 20 below. Some guy came along and got my Voyager running but I had to cab it to Red Robin when the Toyota quit on me. I wasn't dressed for the weather that day and about froze walking up to the 7/11 to find a pay phone.
I drove all over LA County a couple of days last week and saw no breakdowns. Cars are way more reliable than they used to be.
Does that mean you traded in the '06 in for an '08 or that is just a loaner.
If you had traded in the '06 why would you get another VUE, as matter of fact, another Saturn when you just had that experience?
Another factor at play is that once a modern car does break down nowadays, often it's a major enough repair that the owner decides to just get rid of it rather than sink any more money into it. In contrast, really old-school, simple cars are often neglected and not maintained very well. They'll break down and the owners will do the bare minimum to get them running again, and they'll limp along for a bit before breaking down again. It's annoying, and you really need to factor in the time value and safety factor of having a car that breaks down every so often even if it is cheap to fix. But modern cars, once they have that first breakdown, it's often a catastrophic one.
Second of all, the '08 VUE is completely redesigned, w/the 3.6v-6 and 6 sp auto
And last, the '04 had the HONDA V-6 in it!!!
We were in a sailboat and had no battery, but we were able to flag down someone. The stranded guy actually had jumper cables on his speedboat, so maybe he'd been stranded before. I didn't notice if he was driving a (Taiwanese made?) Merc or Volvo or a Tohatsu/Nissan.
The car suddenly just quit running on the middle of the road is a pretty BIG PROBLEM, even though it was the only one problem.
Second of all, the '08 VUE is completely redesigned, w/the 3.6v-6 and 6 sp auto
I am just curious to see if he had considered other alternatives. If so, what are they, if not, why not. So one can't ask question anymore?? :confuse: I thought there is a saying which is something like...There no question such as a dumb question.
And last, the '04 had the HONDA V-6 in it!!!
Did he say the problem is caused by the engine? My dad's 1990 Acura Legend had similar problems back in '99 (200K miles) and it wasn't caused by the engine.
This was the statement I was refering to, which sounded like, because it's a Saturn, and it failed you, why would you get another? Coupled w/ the fact that you seem to be import biased made the tone of the statement sound rather accusatory towards Saturn. If not, my HUMBLEST of apologies
For the article, right??? SURE!
The last time I saw a car broken down on the road.... occassionally you see it; I think I see at least one car a week, admittedly, it's happening less often, but I think that has more to do with the traffic trucks roaming around putting red flyers on the antenna than it has to do with less breakdowns (they notify the tow trucks quicker in this day and age of everyone having a cell phone).
Same car a few years later BAM - dead. Turns out the electronic ignition module "melted" not so easy to fix that one. :sick: :lemon:
Actually, not too bad a little car, now that the bugs are squished. Inexpensive and not overly cheap.
Loren
Loren
Before that, My timing gear lost it's nylon teeth at the work parking lot on my '70 Delta 88 back in '83 with 157k on it. Had to go back into the office and make a call home. Towed it to my uncle's house 5 miles away and put in metal gears and a new chain. Drove it 5 more years and sold it at 203k to someone who drove it on 2000 mile trip the next day.
Lost both V belts on '84 Camaro in '86. Alt light was on but I didn't notice missing belts when I popped hood in morning, so I drove 45 miles to school off battery. When classes ended I had a dead battery. Had a friend from class loan me his RX-7 battery after starting his car, and I followed him 35 miles back to WPB running down his battery which was on my floor with jumper cables out window under hood to my battery. Then put his battery back in RX-7 and went to store for two V belts. Both had failed simultaneously. Then jump started Camaro after putting on belts and off I went. That factory Camaro battery lasted 83k miles and over 6 years.
Loren
Well not that's the type of answer that is constructive about the problem. I could go into class warfare about the midwest rednecks but I don't see that as being productive.
Whatever you want to say about the coasts, that's where a large fraction of the customers live and if you want to write them off, fine. Just don't cry about GM's declining market share. Or perhaps you could actually worry about whether GM is making competitive products. Maybe even someday those snob actors would be happy to be seen in a GM car.
I just returned from a week in the Carolinas and rented a Pontiac G6 GT. Here are some observations:
Bottom line: Definitely more good than bad. GM is improving a lot.
Pros:
- Smooth engine, not unrefined or harsh except perhaps a bit buzzy at high revs
- Smooth transmission although 4sp
- Seat comfort(leather) was excellent
- Handling seemed pretty good. Harder to judge as the car pulled to the right (30K miles) which I chalk up to a maintenance issue
- Quiet
- Ergonomics generally good, I liked the round air vents with unique louver style
- Interior quality was fairly decent, no rattles, some hard/cheap plastic and all monotone but no major issues
- I really liked the width. I have an Acura TL and I do prefer slightly narrower cars
- Nice sounding Monsoon radio
Cons:
- All black interior was drab
- Engine a little harsher at high revs/under hard acceleration
- Trunk too small. Liftover way too high
- Car is a bit long for its space/width
- Nonintiuive information display and management of trip odometers, etc.
Based upon this drive, the G6 actually increased my tendency to consider GM for a future car purchase, especially as the newer products improve.
The engineering, lessons learned, components, and technology will be carried from the regal to the lucerne. The quality will come too. If people don't buy them then they will probably eventually be dropped. I read many unsubstantiated reasons not to buy them. The resale after 3 years at 47% is true and may be the reason for the nameplate change. The Lucerne is better than the regal in so many ways.
Since they chose the name Lucerne to replace the Regal, perhaps the next car should stick with the supermarket theme. What about the Buick CarNation? :P
Are you trying to say that Buick drivers are contented cows? :P
last year. hnowever we were on vacation and left an in car cooler running all night.
Before that is was my 62 vette 6 years ago when a wire touched a ground and grounded out.
1487, when did I or anyone here say they would never drive a GM car. I would drvie one but when I go up and down the line, I see few products besides a Vette that would beat out all competition if I was shopping now for various legitimate reasons.
You need to review some population statistics. CA is the largest state in population and has one of the lowest %'s of domestic cars. CA's populaton is 3-4 times that of NJ and thus CA is a very significant market. As I said, if you subtract the largest car market from the other 49 states you would see a significant difference in market share between imports and domestics. BTW, I live near NJ so I'm pretty familiar with what cars exist in that state.
because most you guys do speak as if its black and white. I have yet to see anyone here who vouches for the unparalleled excellence of imports actually admit that there are a few dozen nice domestic cars on the market but those cars are just not their preference. It seems like a simple statement to make but I find that import fanboys are incapable of admitting that. In their minds its CLEAR that domestic vehicles are crap and imports are superior hands down.
"Jeeze man, this is constructive criticism we're talking here, not "I love everything Japan, I hate America!". "
LOL! Now THAT was rich to say the least. Just for the record, constructive criticism involves full acknowledgement of the facts. If you look at the number of inaccurate statements made here in regards to how great imports are and how bad GM is I find it hard to believe people like you are truly rooting for GM on the inside. Of course some posters are worst than others, and you may not be the most biased here, but you get my drift.
You're heart and mind will get fired up making numerous visits to the dealer and wasting time with warranty service, even if it is free financially, it is not free in terms of wasted time, heartache, gasoline, mileage, ect. "
You blindly believe in CR and they say that recent Hyundais/Kias are reliable. You are contradicting yourself. I've seen no evidence that recent Korean cars are much less reliable than Japanese cars. As I said, you get a Toyota or Honda type vehicle for way less money with a longer warranty. Advantage Korea.
Yes we know, you drove the Aura. It was OK, but no Accord and they wouldnt give you enough money on trade in. The story has been well covered at this point. I'm sure you did "look" at American cars, but that isnt the same as "considering" an american car. Seeing as though you seem to be in love with Hondas (while simultaneously claiming you want a RWD GM car)I dont see you behind the wheel of anything made by GM anytime soon. You know someone is biased when they dismiss every obvious shortcoming of their favorite car. When talking of the lack of features on Accord you were the first one to claim all of the features it lacks arent important. Funny how that wouldnt apply if I was talking about GM models.
the cheap often ends up costing the most"
what do you think when you see imports on a flatbed? They paid more up front, had higher financing costs and will pay more when the car is fixed. Talk about suckers.
I know you have never seen an import being towed, but I assure you that I have. I guess these things just dont happen in CA or Mass.
same thing. Like I said, you wouldnt drive a GM model- except the vette apparently. You cannot be an objective person and look at all the facts and come away with the conclusion that GM makes no models worthy of consideration besides the Vette. This is 2007, not 1997 in case you missed it.
Just curious (cant wait to read the response) as to what "legitimate" reasons you would have for passing on the lamdas, GMT900 pickups/SUVs, '08 Vue, Aura, '08 CTS, '08 STS, '08 Malibu, Sky/Solstice, SRX, etc. IF you were in the market in any of those segments? Not saying they are the hands down class leaders, but they would seem like finalists in any objective search. Of course if you are doing a Japanese manufactuer only search, they would all be left out.
And the Silverado, lol it's a truck. It has the distinctive Chevy nose and bowtie. Sure, the interior is improved but that's not a "risk", that's called "saving our behinds from another running joke that was the Silverado/GM interiors of yore.". But what innovations does it bring to the table over the old one? Nothing I can find... So if you're gonna call that a "risk" then the Toyota Tundra is a deal with the devil. "
there is that constructive criticism again! So helpful! You need to research the Silverado a little before further comments are made. The new truck is all new and has lots of new features as well as a far superior interior. I never said the Tundra wasnt a design risk, I agree that they did take some risk with the ugly front end.
You HONESTLY think the RAV4 is a risky design? You cant be serious. It the same as the old one but its bigger and has the new corporate grille.
The H3/H2 are not unique designs? You credit Toyota for the FJ but dont acknowledge the Hummers which CLEARLY inspired Toyota to create the FJ. And you wonder why you have no credibility here. Your screen name says it all. They say ignorance is bliss and I'm starting to see why.
You also say the STS and CTS are the same so the STS isnt a risk. First of all most car lines share design cues- OK, well Toyota doesnt do this as they come up with a new theme for every new model- and thus its only natural that the CTS/STS share a common look. Either way the STS is a dramatic departure from the last gen model and is a risky design in that it looks nothing like the bloated jellybean designs being offered by the Asian luxo brands.
CTS: The original is definitely a styling offensive, the 08' is just a evolutionary version of the previous gen.
Malibu: The front facsia looks like a bloated Cobalt. From the side it looks like an Acura TL and the tail is lifted directly from the Mitsu Diamante.
Aura: Falls in the same category as the Camry, that's want to be a little bit stylish but not over the top to offend its core customer base.
Sky/Solstice: Yes, definitely styling offensive. The Sky is probably one of the best looking roasters on the road.
'08 STS: What's the difference from the '07 except that bloated nose? "
your above comments reveal you are more or less incapably of giving GM any credit. Thats fine but I do wonder why people who are so anti-GM get so offended when they are called out on being that way. All types of people in the media and regular people at home are acknowledging that GM (and domestic) designs are getting better and better. I have a friend who owns a TSX who likes the Aura and lamda SUVS and I assure you that she is not someone who normally looks at American cars. The designs are nice and people are noticing. You say the Malibu is a bland enlarged cobalt but Automobile mag's design critic said it was a sophisticated design that is one of the best in the segment. He didnt say it was perfect but considering he doesnt praise the majority of the cars he reviews the Malibu's review was VERY positive.
the STS has a new grille and lower fascia (that most people feel is an improvement) side vents and new wheels. I see nothing bloated about the nose of the car. I assume you wouldnt make the same comment about Audis.
same thing. If only you had any basis for that. Disagreeing with hardly makes one hysterical, in fact I would say it probably makes them somewhat objective and logical.
"That's why it's flying off of the lots. I was a potential ocnquest for Saturn and I crossed it off the list. That G6, Aura, Malibu platform in uncompetitive because of the width. "
Aura is an unknown brand and Saturn has about 400 dealerships. Even Cadillac has more than that. Do you want to take bets as to whether or not the Malibu will consistently crack 20k sales a month next year? I mean to me that would be the ultimate proof of your assertion that the main reason the Aura isnt selling in Camry type numbers is its width. I cant have anything to do with production capacity, dealership number, lack of four cylinder and lack of name recognition. Nope, its width because you said so. Keep in mind that Camrys and Accords of a few years ago were actually smaller than the Aura and had no trouble selling 300k+ copies.
"I want a midsize car that can hold 5, not a full size car. The Altima and Accord fit that bill. That's why they sell so well. "
yes, thats why the Impala is outselling the Altima and is close to passing Accord. Good point. BTW, I didn't know the Lacrosse was a full size car. Thanks for the tip.
"I want a midsize car that can hold 5, not a full size car. The Altima and Accord fit that bill. That's why they sell so well. "
and thats exactly why I wonder about your presence here. You dont like GM, you have no intention of buying thier products, you love Japanese cars, etc. Kind of confused as to why you feel the need to read and post here so often.
YOu have never heard of problems with imports, but I have. SOrry that I cant forget about the problems I've heard about and just become an unconditional import lover like you. I just find it miraculous that import fanboys have NEVER had a problem OR encontered anyone who has had a problem with an Asian car when I come across stories without even trying.
"We have different standards. "
No we dont. As with most GM bashers you have taken the arrogant view that import owners care about reliability while idiot domestic owners dont. For some reason it never crosses the mind of you and your brethren here that perhaps some people have had positive ownership experiences with domestic products. Just curious as to what you would say to a person who has had issues with an import car since everything is so cut and dry in your opinion.
Okay, since this is the way you want to play, I'll take the initiative. Following are the domestic cars that are pretty nice and I wouldn't mind to recommend to my friends who are unbiased toward domestics.
All Caddies except the DTS and Esclade
Buick Lucerne
Buick Enclave
All Saabs except the SUV
Chevy Impala
Chevy Silverado
Chevy Corvette
All Saturns except the Ion
Pontiac Solstice
GMC Sierra
GMC Acadia
Ford Fusion
Ford Mustang
Ford F-150
Mercury Milan
Ford Edge
Chrysler 300
Chrysler Town and Country
Dodge Caravan
I could be missing a few that those are what's on top of my head right now. I would also like to confess most of them are just not my preference except the '08 CTS and Corvette but I wouldn't deny they are nice cars/trucks/CUVs. Give credit when credit is due is also my moto and would like to see my "domestic fanboy" counterparts to do the same as well.
Yes, it was a 2004 Saturn VUE.
Yes, it had the Honda sourced engine and transmission.
Yes, we traded it in on a 2008 VUE XR AWD.
Did not consider any other brand. We own 4 Saturns (one ION and two L-series) and love the customer service and no stress buying experience. I do qualify for GM, Ford, Chrysler and Audi supplier discounts.
As steve pointed out, not a week before the failure, we had test driven the 2008 VUE and the wife really liked it.
So, when the dealer told us they couldn't reproduce the problem, the wife immediately decided she couldn't trust the car. She drives about 15 miles each way to work, all of it rural. Even with cell phones, neither of us felt good about her driving a car that could quit at any time.
Have only had the new VUE for a couple of days, but our initial impression is quite favorable. Much quieter - in fact, the wife commented after the first test drive that her '04 "rode like a truck" - and 6-speed auto (with tap shift) is a huge upgrade.
Plus - and you know this is a girl thing - she wanted to have the iPod aux jack.
I've been reading this forum since its inception. I have owned my share of foreign makes over the years (3 Hondas, a couple of Isuzus, a Mazda, a VW and a Nissan), along with domestics (4 Fords and the 5 Saturns). I've been just as impressed with the Fords and Saturns as I have been with everything else I've owned and driven.
I sincerely hope that GM can turn things around. My cousin's husband works for GM - he started out in the Tarrytown, NY plant, then transferred to the Oklahoma City plant when Tarrytown was shut down. Now that the OKC plant is gone, he's been commuting to the Arlington, TX plant (his family is still in OK).
I was merely saying some of GM's design you've pointed out are not that unique as you've stated. However, that doesn't equate to they are bad cars. I give credit when credit is due but I don't have to agree with everything you said or do I? Why am I sensing there is a little bit of McCarthyism going on around here...
You say the Malibu is a bland enlarged cobalt but Automobile mag's design critic said it was a sophisticated design that is one of the best in the segment.
I said Malibu's front end looks like a bloated Cobalt so I wouldn't list it as a styling offensive. Which part of that statement makes it sound like "Malibu is bad looking or not a sophisticated design" to you? Let's stick to what people actually said instead of trying to imply what people have said.
I assume you wouldn't make the same comment about Audis.
For the record, I don't like Audi's styling at all and never did. Also I like it less with the bloated nose.
Here's my constructive criticism for you, my friend: Next time, read the entire post before reply.
1. Where did I say the engine isn't Honda?
2. I stated in my post that my family's old 1990 Acura Legend had the same problem back in '99 and it wasn't caused by the engine or the transmission. Because of my personal experience I offered my suggestion that there is a possibility that something other than the Honda powertrain may be the cause of the problem. Is it possible that the problem is within the Honda powertrain? You betcha.
lamdas - underpowered, crossover styling doesn't work on such a large vehicle
GMT900 pickups/SUVs - I'm not a truck buyer but I know too many people that have had great experiences with their F150s and it looks better
'08 Vue - not an SUV buyer. It looks pretty good on the website. If I was in the market, I would compare it. The Santa Fe is probably a better deal.
Aura - checked it out in person. IT'S NOT WIDE ENOUGH AND CAN'T HANDLE 5 PASSENGERS!! I know it's not a big difference in your book but I don't care
'08 CTS - Overstyled. Both the 3 series and G35 a overall more attractive and have better track records
'08 STS - still a bloated luxobarge with squishy suspension destined for FLA turnpikes. No way it compares to a 535
'08 Malibu - It looks OK but there is nothing compelling about it to win me back from Nissan or Honda
Sky/Solstice - a roadster that has no trunk space with the top down is useless. Typically GM, it's heavy weight makes it less fun to drive than a Miata
SRX - I'd buy a black one if I was building a hearse. Otherwise it's a package that does not resonate with the buying public.
The old RAV4 didn't even have a V6 option so the max HP output of the old to the new is: 161 vs. 269. The old doesn't have a third row and the new does. The RAV4 is suppose to be Toyota's compact crossover and compact crossovers aren't supposed to have third row seats. I could be wrong but I believe the new RAV4 is the first compact crossover to have third row seats. If that's not risky design please tell me what is.
Here again is my constructive criticism: You maybe very knowledgeable about GM products but next time do some research about GM competitor's products before making similar comments.
The H3/H2 are not unique designs?
H1 has a unique style and H2 and H3 are just the smaller version of that.
You also say the STS and CTS are the same so the STS isnt a risk.
Since the original CTS is the first of Caddy's Art & Science design philosophy it is indeed a risky design. The STS just looks like a bigger CTS so please tell me where is the risk in that. Let me say this before you wrongfully accusing me of saying STS is a bad design: I didn't, I just said STS is NOT a risky design which does not equal to a bad design. I actually applaud Caddy's effort to induce the family resemblence into each one of its offerings just like what other luxury brands are doing.
Obviously, "strictly" anecdotal, but it seems that more often than not it is American brand vehicles broken down on side of road and on flat beds than Japanese. Also, over the years, seems that newspaper automotive help columns have an inordinate amount of people writing in about problems with their American branded vehicles than Japanese brands. This "anecdotal" might be coincident with CR April issues listing used car bad bets and used cars to avoid.
That said, still would be interested in test drive of latest version CTS, or perhaps Acadia in future.
Ah where I live I would say Domestics as opposed to imports breaking down is pretty much equal usually its like 10 year old Japanese Car or a 20 year old Domestic that breaks down that I see on the side of the road.
GMT900 pickups/SUVs - I'm not a truck buyer but I know too many people that have had great experiences with their F150s and it looks better
'08 Vue - not an SUV buyer. It looks pretty good on the website. If I was in the market, I would compare it. The Santa Fe is probably a better deal.
Aura - checked it out in person. IT'S NOT WIDE ENOUGH AND CAN'T HANDLE 5 PASSENGERS!! I know it's not a big difference in your book but I don't care
'08 CTS - Overstyled. Both the 3 series and G35 a overall more attractive and have better track records
'08 STS - still a bloated luxobarge with squishy suspension destined for FLA turnpikes. No way it compares to a 535
'08 Malibu - It looks OK but there is nothing compelling about it to win me back from Nissan or Honda
Sky/Solstice - a roadster that has no trunk space with the top down is useless. Typically GM, it's heavy weight makes it less fun to drive than a Miata
SRX - I'd buy a black one if I was building a hearse. Otherwise it's a package that does not resonate with the buying public. "
shockingly, almost everthing you said is illogical or untrue.
1. The STS is not a luxo cruiser and anyone who states that is lying and out of touch with reality in terms of reviews of this car. C&D tested one recently and it did 0-60 in 6.2 secs, stopped from 70 in 162 (vette territory) and registered .86g on the skidpad. Stop lying, its not becoming.
2. The styling of the lambdas has been universally praised, even by import loving media types. Your statement is totally contradtictory to the prevailing opinion on these vehicles.
3. Almost everyone in the media who has seen the Malibu in person has stated the car is one the best designs in the segment. The Accord has been universally called an uninspiring design. I cant think of any objective person who would say the Accord is a more interesting design than the Malibu. The Accord doesnt even look better than the current Malibu.
4. The SRX has not sold well but has been almost universally praisd, especially since it got a new interior. For the record the SRX's sales are in the same ballpark as the FX and several of its other competitors. I guess none of them resonated with the buying public.
5. Accord and most other cars in that class cannot seat 5 in comfort. If this is an important feature to you I would suggest a larger car. C&D said the Accord had the most cramped backseat out of the cars in their recent midsize sedan test. Stop acting like the Aura is 5 sizes smaller than the competition. It is SLIGHTLY narrower but it also has a longer wheelbase than its competitors for more legroom than most of them.
6. Most reviews of the kappa cars praised their handling. The GXp/redline kappas are definitely more powerful and more exciting to drive than the miata. The storage issue is a fact, the rest of your statement is pure unproven conjecture.
7. The GM pickups are superior to the F150 in every way imaginable. Your lame excuse about friends loviing F150s and thus you dont consider other trucks is a joke. Styling is subjective but on the objective fronts the GMT900s are superior and there is nothing you can say to refute that.
8. You dont have to be an SUV buyer to see the Vue has a lot of features, three engines and a top notch interior. I'm not exotic car buyer but for some reason I can tell that Ferrari makes a nice car. Imagine that.
9. CTS is Overstyled? That is pretty funny. Sounds like a good way to excuse the car's good looks. I can say that the press seems to disagree with you 100% as do most people here who have seen the pictures. You are in the minority on that issue, as with most issues.