General Motors discussions

carguy58

"I've seen no evidence that recent Korean cars are much less reliable than Japanese cars. As I said, you get a Toyota or Honda type vehicle for way less money with a longer warranty. Advantage Korea."

I'm not crazy about Kia(and their reliability is questionable to me)
but I wouldn;t hesitate to look at Hyundai if I was interested in one of their models like I said earlier.

xrunner2

Before that, My timing gear lost it's nylon teeth at the work parking lot on my '70 Delta 88 back in '83 with 157k on it. Had to go back into the office and make a call home. Towed it to my uncle's house 5 miles away and put in metal gears and a new chain. Drove it 5 more years and sold it at 203k to someone who drove it on 2000 mile trip the next day.

Had the same thing happen on a 71 Firebird 400 while on an expressway and in left lane. A little fuzzy on this, but mileage might have been around 50K. Suddenly lost power, looked at dash and tach showed zero. Was able to move onto left shoulder quickly. Had it towed to my garage and had a friend help me discover the cause. Put in metal gear and new chain as well as new water pump. Parts guy at Pontiac dealer said that GM/Pontiac made a mistake by putting in nylon teeth and was no longer doing so. The engineering manager that signed off on putting in plastic teeth should have been fired.

I think that GM started making bad decisions on various aspects of car design for model year 1971. GM had very good cars, in my experience/observations, through the late 60's, but quality/reliability started to be a problem in 70's.

Had a 68 Firebird 400 that was almost bullitproof, great paint, no rust, no engine problems. Not so with 71 Firebird. Bad paint, rust problems, engine problems, etc. Kept each of these cars for approx 9-10 years.

1487

let me clarify for a moment. You seem to take issue with the assertion that GM is on the styling offensive because each and every car they design isnt a drop dead gorgeous groundbreaking design. First of all, you are smart enough to know that with so many cars on the market its hard to come up with a completely original design. Just ask Honda who seemed to copy three different cars when penning the 2008 Accord. That said, my main point is that right now GM is closer to the top in terms of design than the bottom. When you compared recent GM designs to that of Honda, Nissan, Ford, Chrysler and Hyundai I would say GM is doing pretty well. I dont think the Malibu is the best looking four door ever, but I do think its a very solid effort that puts it amongst the lookers of the class. I cannot say that about the Sonata, Accord or Camry. To me its all about double standards. When you see OK Asian car designs there are tons of excuses. "it looks bland, but had great resale value" or "They dont need to worry about styling because their cars are so reliable" or "at least its better looking than the last one". When I say I like the Malibu and Aura the knives come out becuase people say they arent the best looking or most original sedans ever created so there is no point in praising them. I cant think of any midsize sedans that would make me want to pass on an Aston Martin, but Gm's recent sedans have been pretty good looking.

carguy58

"The Accord doesnt even look better than the current Malibu."

Are you kidding the current Malibu is not even as good looking as the current Accord even though I don;t care for the current Accord's looks. I am not happy with the 08 Accord's looks that I have seen on the spy photo's and yeah I do like Honda.

carguy58

"I dont think the Malibu is the best looking four door ever, but I do think its a very solid effort that puts it amongst the lookers of the class.I cannot say that about the Sonata, Accord or Camry. To me its all about double standards. When you see OK Asian car designs there are tons of excuses. "it looks bland, but had great resale value" or "They dont need to worry about styling because their cars are so reliable" or "at least its better looking than the last one".

I do agree with you on the current Accord and Sonata. who said they(the Japanese Car companies) don;t have to worry about exterior styling on their cars? Mazda and Nissan tried to be Toyota and Mazda and Nissan almost went under when they tried to be as conservative as Toyota was in their exterior designs 10-12 years ago.

plekto

Or you can always get something from the smaller Japanese makers. Mitsubishi and Nissan, for instance, make an awful lot of engines that end up in other cars, and they are essentially Honda reliable, or close to it without the badge markup. Mazda is also another good choice.

A little over a year ago my sister wanted a new car and had me test-drive and poke over the Mazda 3 and the Civic. Sheetmetal aside, the two cars are nearly identical in features, space, dimmensions, and so on. Fabric inside, placement of switches and so on... It's like looking at two cars from the same factory. They even drove essentially the same.

Of course the 3 can be had with rebates and such, so it costs less. About what the Hyundai sells for, actually. Hyundai has been slowly creeping its prices up and isn't the deal that it once was.

Honda and Toyota aren't the only game in town.

andre1969

5. Accord and most other cars in that class cannot seat 5 in comfort. If this is an important feature to you I would suggest a larger car. C&D said the Accord had the most cramped backseat out of the cars in their recent midsize sedan test. Stop acting like the Aura is 5 sizes smaller than the competition. It is SLIGHTLY narrower but it also has a longer wheelbase than its competitors for more legroom than most of them.

In my opinion, there are precious few cars today that can seat 5 in comfort. At least, if you're talking for long distances. At the Philly auto show, we tried to squeeze 3 across in a Lucerne, and it didn't work. And I've tried 3 across in an '04 Crown Vic, which is about as wide as it gets for shoulder room in a car these days, and even there it wasn't comfortable. Often it has more to do with the contouring of the seats than actual shoulder room. Still, I remember CR saying that you need at least 57 inches of shoulder room to have a shot at 3-across seating. And if the Aura's coming in at 2-3" less shoulder room than the bigger cars, that's going to make a noticeable difference.

Things are different nowadays, but it used to be that a typical compact car had about 54-56" of shoulder room, while a midsize was around 56-60", and a full-sized car was greater than 60". But just going on that criteria, that would put the Aura in a different class from the Accord and Camry. I'm not sure about the Altima anymore, though. I heard that for the 2007 redesign that they shrunk up shoulder room a bit, but it felt roomy to me when I sat in it. We didn't try squeezing 3 across, though.

xrunner2

Ah where I live I would say Domestics as opposed to imports breaking down is pretty much equal usually its like 10 year old Japanese Car or a 20 year old Domestic that breaks down that I see on the side of the road.

You failed to quote one part of my post that would lend credence to my anecdotal, which was: "This "anecdotal" might be coincident with CR April issues listing used car bad bets and used cars to avoid."

Check out CR reliability graph in April issue which shows Toyota, Honda, Nissan clearly with better reliability than American brands, especially as vehicles get older. Of course won't know how 2007 American brands stack up against 2007 Japanese brands in reliability for at least 3-5 years.

louiswei

I'll agree that it's hard to come up with an original design these days and I wouldn't say any of the mainstream brands have a ground breaking design nor expect for one given it's domestic or import. Well, the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger might be standouts design-wise. I am also not going to make excuse for Toyota and Honda's bland designs because they are bland. However, since they are well-established in the sedan market and apparently (and sadly) bland sells I wouldn't fault them to continue the trend. At least the new Camry and Accord aren't more bland than their predecessor, give credit when credit is due. I also agree that the Aura and Malibu are better looking than their import counterparts even though they are not ground breaking designs.

The "styling offensives" in my recent memory are:

Acura TL & TSX
BMW Bangle
Cadillac Art & Science
Lexus L-finesse (Some say it's a Japanese Bangle I say bull)
Ford 3-bar grille
Chrysler 300 & Dodge Charger

I could be missing a few...

I would like to add that my choice of styling offensive doesn't equal to good looking designs. They are just unique comparing to others.

carguy58

"Check out CR reliability graph in April issue which shows Toyota, Honda, Nissan clearly with better reliability than American brands, especially as vehicles get older. Of course won't know how 2007 American brands stack up against 2007 Japanese brands in reliability for at least 3-5 years."

Yeah I saw the graph. Thars just what I used to see when I jsed to drive to work on the Interstate a while back: 20 year old Domestics and 10 maybe 12 year old Japanese branded cars broken down.

midwesttrader

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070816/UPDATE/708160448/1148- /AUTO01

midwesttrader

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070816/AUTO01/708160441/1148- &imw=Y

carguy58

"Yes we know, you drove the Aura. It was OK, but no Accord and they wouldnt give you enough money on trade in. The story has been well covered at this point. I'm sure you did "look" at American cars, but that isnt the same as "considering" an american car."

M1Miata has bought Domestics before like a olds 98 I think and a PT Cruiser before so how can you say that M1Miata hasn't considered American Cars before?

lemko

I've seen pictures of the 2008 LaCrosse Super that make me want to go right out and buy one now. I love the new Velite-inspired grille and the VentiPorts. The 2008 LaCrosse looks far more distinctive than any Camcord.

jcgable

You are biased and incapable of being honest about the styling of the cars in question. The camry is inoffensive and dull, although not as dull as previous designs. I havent heard ONE person say they hate the design of the car.

I would like to take the honor of being the first.

chetj

i guess it was all the bad paint jobs

chetj

the later models were halfway decent...i know my friends didnt like chrysler financial back in the 90s...they were very unpleasant on loans

chetj

i like my 07 focus...i am tall and it is very roomy...thousands less( sounds like a commercial) than a toy or honda w/ a 100k powetrain warranty...very underrated...it has more room than a cobalt...stuffed a dryer in hatchback...best selling car in england

andre1969

like my 07 focus...i am tall and it is very roomy...thousands less( sounds like a commercial) than a toy or honda w/ a 100k powetrain warranty...very underrated...it has more room than a cobalt...stuffed a dryer in hatchback...best selling car in england

Y'know, it's funny, but I'm tall too, and I found the Focus to be cramped, while the Cobalt seemed roomy to me, up front, at least. But I think the difference is that the Focus is taller and has a higher seating position. Great headroom, but I found it tight in legroom. But I like a seating position where you can stretch out, like some of those old 70's cars where you can almost stretch your legs out straight and barely be able to touch the firewall.

But that hatchback utility is great. I had to buy a dryer back in May, and ended up loading it into the back of my pickup truck. No car I ever owned would be able to take a load that awkward, except maybe my '57 DeSoto. But even there, I'd have to move the spare tire, and the trunk would have to be tied down.

Also, isn't the English Focus a different car from the American Focus? I was under the impression that the English Focus was more like the Volvo S40 that we have here.

louiswei

Easy...

If one has longer upper body, choose Focus. On the other hand, like very long legs then Cobalt it is.

I am 6'1 with super long thighs (almost 1/3 of my height) so headroom is not a concern to me. As long as the driver seat is set all the way back I'll have no problem to fit inside any car (including the compacts). However, backseat comfort to me is another story. I felt cramped even inside the roomiest midsizer unless the front seat is all the way forward.

m1miata

I personally don't see how people consider the Accord and Camry as bland designs. While not something of an all time classic, knock-out looks, they are all modern looks with some interesting lines to them. Bland is more like a 1960 Falcon, or a 2007 Malibu. Those are bland. Now the previous Camry was blahhh.
Loren

xrunner2

I personally don't see how people consider the Accord and Camry as bland designs. While not something of an all time classic, knock-out looks, they are all modern looks with some interesting lines to them.

New Camry is derivative of Lexus style and has understated elegance.

When you look back at some Accords and Camrys, some of them age well with time in terms of design. Take for example the 92-93 Accord 4-door sedan or 92-93 Camry. The designs were clean, simple, elegant and look great today, especially the Accord.

Can't say the same about many GM models in that time frame of 90's. Recall the overstuffed guppy look of the mid-90's Impala and Buick Roadmaster or the plastic cladded Pontiac Bonnevilles and Grand Ams. These cars look goofy today compared to Accords and Camrys of that time. There were other GM vehicles that were lacking in inspiration in style also. Other GM syles that went out of control, from their heritage, were the fat and bloated last gen of Camaros and Firebirds.

The last great era for GM styling/design was the 60's decade. There are signs that GM is coming back with fine designs - CTS, XLR, Enclave/Acadia, G6, new Malibu except grille, Solstice/Sky, Tahoe, always Corvette, etc. Believe that Bob Lutz has huge influence in guiding styling/design teams. Let's hope that he remains healthy and stays on at GM for many years to come. In a recorded interview that a financial tv network did recently, it was obvious from his comments and answers to questions that he gets design/style inspiration from classic and current European cars.

62vetteefp

Malibu finally brings GM into the next century. 4 cylinder with 6 speed.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070816/UPDATE/708160459

General Motors Corp. will match a six-speed transmission with a four-cylinder engine on the new Chevrolet Malibu, a fuel-saving combination not currently offered in the United States, the automaker announced today.

WHOOPS!, my mistake! Camry only offers a 5 speed on their 4 cylinder Camry. And Accord is the same way. Altima does offer the 6 speed with the 4.

62vetteefp

I personally don't see how people consider the Accord and Camry as bland designs. While not something of an all time classic, knock-out looks, they are all modern looks with some interesting lines to them.

I have grown to like the new Camry. Little spiffy yet not over the top. The Accord though needs a change fast. Very unattractive vehicle. I would think the new one must be coming soon. It is at about the bottom in styling now in the midsize market.

62vetteefp

The trade journal Automotive News reported Wednesday that General Motors has recruited several prominent radio personalities – many on a national scale but also in local markets – by providing the hosts with new cars and trucks to drive free for two weeks each month.

The deal also includes trips to Detroit to meet with GM executives and see the company's facilities.

Among the hosts taking advantage of the deal are some of the biggest names in talk radio and a few who double on TV. Among them: Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, Whoopi Goldberg, Sean Hannity, Ryan Seacrest, Glenn Beck, Michael Baisden, former Detroiter George Noory, Delilah, Laura Ingraham, Jim Rome, John Tesh, and Big Tigger, a former WJLB-FM (97.9, Detroit) morning host. Local hosts in Dallas were also mentioned in the story.

The hosts are not required to mention GM but some, including Limbaugh, have done so, praising the vehicles’ performance.

62vetteefp

Chrysler just hired away Lexus's top Marketing person. Chrysler is really going all out.

62vetteefp

It could be the future of cruising, a muscle car for the 21st Century: A Chevrolet Camaro that could approach 40 m.p.g. on the highway and 30 m.p.g. in the city.

It might glide silently through future Woodward Dream Cruises, running on battery power up to 25 m.p.h. but with a beefy V8 engine poised to leap to life for a 0-60 sprint.

This Camaro, wedding Chevrolet's legendary small-block V8 engine to General Motors' advanced new hybrid system, isn't on the drawing board yet, but it is feasible, a knowledgeable GM source told the Free Press. GM has the parts on the shelf to get this dream car cruising. It would combine production-ready hybrid technology that hits the road this fall in some GM vehicles with the celebrated new Camaro that is to go on sale in early 2009.

GM has already said a Camaro with a conventional V8 engine will get 30 m.p.g. on the highway.

The V6 Camaro will certainly top that, so it's a not too big a leap to infer eye-popping fuel economy figures for a hybrid version of the reincarnated muscle car.

GM has admitted it will lose thousands of dollars on every one of the big Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukons that will offer the system beginning this fall.

The price should fall as production volume rises and the company gets more experience with the system, and GM documents say the company does plan to offer it in rear-wheel-drive cars, though it won't say which ones.

"It looked for years like GM was behind Toyota" in hybrid and alternative-fuel technology, Phillippi said. "Now we're seeing significant movement. With the Tahoe and Yukon hybrids, GM is years ahead."


If the 35mpg CAFE goes thru we will see a lot of this. BUT, it will add a lot of price to the car but buyers of the Camaro probably will not care.

stever

Lexus's top Marketing person

Here's a blurb about her.

Regarding free cars for radio personalities, there's some talk about how junkets and giveaways affect reviews of cars in the Lets talk media discussion, if you have interest.

Don't overlook the Saturn contest link in the top banner btw.

louiswei

Now that's an offensive from GM. Good job.

By the way, I think the Altima has CVT instead of 6 speed with the 4.

62vetteefp

Chevrolet will unveil the HHR SS, the first performance version of its popular compact retro-wagon, on Woodward Avenue in Birmingham today. The turbocharged HHR SS delivers an eye-popping 260 horsepower, making the wagon one of the most powerful front-wheel-drive compact cars on the market.
Chevrolet says the HHR SS accelerates to 60 m.p.h. in 6.3 seconds. Chevrolet has used the SS – which stands for Super Sport – badge on performance versions of mainline models for decades.

xrunner2

The Accord though needs a change fast. Very unattractive vehicle. I would think the new one must be coming soon. It is at about the bottom in styling now in the midsize market.

Current gen Accord came out in 2003 and was roundly criticized for taillights. Some said they looked like a Buick, and were not done well. Honda tried to fix, but still did not get it quite right in rear styling.

If one squints slightly, they could mistake a 2007 Impala for a 2007 Accord and verse-visa. They are close in many regards, but think that Impala has overall edge in style.

62vetteefp

If one squints slightly, they could mistake a 2007 Impala for a 2007 Accord and verse-visa. They are close in many regards, but think that Impala has overall edge in style.

Latest Impala, while not a head turner, has some nice lines. The Accord jsut has that awkward line along it's side. Not unattractive but just not great. 5 years is a long time.

On the other side though some seem to not like the current Grand Prix but I really like the lines and roof. Cuts into the rear headroom but worth it for those looking for styling. Do not like the old looking headlamps. They need to flow better into the fenders. Interior needs a lot of work. Time for the old girl to either get a new interior or fade away. And it is fading away next year.

louiswei

Here's my suggestion to GM (not bashing): Easy on the SS badge.

As matter of fact, I don't think any FWD cars, or any SUV, CUV and pickups deserve the SS badge. Maybe GM can come up with another badge to call those pseudo-performance vehicles but SS should be reserved to the best of the best. I can't wait to see the RWD Impala SS.

bumpy

General Motors Corp. will match a six-speed transmission with a four-cylinder engine on the new Chevrolet Malibu

Good. Now let's have a chat about that 4-speed in the Aura Greenline. :confuse:

And I believe the Altima automatic is a CVT.

bumpy

A Chevrolet Camaro that could approach 40 m.p.g. on the highway and 30 m.p.g. in the city.

The 2.9L diesel V6 slated for the Euro CTS could do that now.

GM has admitted it will lose thousands of dollars on every one of the big Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukons that will offer the system beginning this fall.

Of course, if GM committed to making the dual-mode hybrid standard for everything it could fit in, that would make the unit cost just about negligible.

andre1969

And I believe the Altima automatic is a CVT.

yeah, so is my grandmother's 17 year old lawn tractor. Why are the automakers so far behind? :P

andres3

- Handling seemed pretty good. Harder to judge as the car pulled to the right (30K miles) which I chalk up to a maintenance issue

Anyone else here had this problem for an almost brand new car with only 30,000 miles???? I've never had it, in ANY car, except... well... the Neon. :mad:

m1miata

Yeah, those people really know all about cars.
If I had to go to Detroit, I would at the very least expect them to give a Corvette to drive.

So you don't like the looks of the Accord, but you do like the Impala -- the larger, pregnant version of an Accord in style; I find that interesting.
Loren

m1miata

Did you go over the the Chrysler Neon forum to let them know? Not that it matters, as they would know if they own the little gem. Actually, I assume most do run, as I don't see the highways littered with stalled Neons.
Loren

m1miata

Well the competition was gets better gas mileage, with the quality four cylinder engines and five speeds. Good move to catch up to the competition for gas mileage. You can lead, follow or get out of the way. Well, they are following. I assume leading is the cherished position to been in however, and to hold on to.
Loren

andres3

You blindly believe in CR and they say that recent Hyundais/Kias are reliable. You are contradicting yourself. I've seen no evidence that recent Korean cars are much less reliable than Japanese cars. As I said, you get a Toyota or Honda type vehicle for way less money with a longer warranty. Advantage Korea.

First of all I don't blindly believe in CR. I believe in them after years and years of experience that correlated with their data and had pinpoint accuracy and truth to it. They are meticulously accurate, and I've compared it to my own, my families, and my friends' experiences.

Second of all, Hyundai's may now be fairly reliable, but they haven't reached the same league as Toyota and Honda, nor have they shown the consistency for decades.

Third, as Dan Quayle was once told he was "NO Jack Kennedy," the Hyundai's and Kia's are NO Toyota or Honda. Not in quality, not in fuel economy (wait for 2008 Honda to compare to the new Sonata numbers), not in power (don't even have to wait for that one), handling, refinement, nor any other measureable item of importance other than space and price.

andre1969

So you don't like the looks of the Accord, but you do like the Impala -- the larger, pregnant version of an Accord in style; I find that interesting.

I have to admit I like the Impala's style a bit more than the Accord, too. I guess to me it doesn't look fatter than an Accord because it's about a foot longer, so if anything I think that might make it look a bit better balanced. The front-end does look kinda like it's derived from the Accord, with a little bit of '01-06 Sebring thrown in, but I like it.

So going just on looks, I'd give a slight nod to the Impala over the Accord. However, there's an old saying..."Handsome is as Handsome does". CR used it once in reference to a 1958 something or other, and not in a good way as I recall. Basically, beauty is only skin deep.

There's just something about the Accord that I like better. Seems like it's better laid out to me. The Impala is a bit larger in gross interior volume, but the Accord just seems to make better use of the interior room it has. No denying that the Impala has a bigger trunk. And the quality of the Impala's interior doesn't even annoy me anymore like the '00-05 did. I guess I just find myself starting to lean more towards the Accord, if I was forced to choose.

andres3

Hahhahahah.....

Loren dismisses the lack of so-called "features" missing from the Accord for precisely the same reason he bought the Accord; he doesn't care about them (at least not enough to overpower the decision to buy a lesser vehicle with MORE features)!!!!!

And so too, the other 300,000 or so Accord buyers every year.

m1miata

Wow, looks like poster "1487" always knows what we should be saying, what was truly in our mind, and what we really had to say in every post. We can all learn so much from this person. And we all can save time, as this poster could post for everyone here, as this mind-reader clarifies every line to perfection. Knows what we did, what we like, what will be doing -- sort of god-like.

Seems to be obsessed about talking about Camry and Accords. Said that Accord SEV6 lacks features, which I have not a clue as to what is lacking. Could have a jack for the IPod. What this has to do with GM cars, is anyone's guess.
Loren

andres3

I sure hope someone from GM/Saturn watched the quality control of the delivered Honda parts for the Vue!!!!

If I was Honda, I'd of shipped them all of the "B" stock!

Either way, a failed vehicle from Saturn Vue is GM's fault, not Honda's, it's final assembly quality control inspection wasn't done by a Honda employee.

louiswei

True.

It's like blaming GM when a BMW's auto tranny breaks down.

Deosn't make any sense...

jae5

62,

From your postings (Malibu 4cyl-6 speed, HHR SS) it seems you and I haunt the same sites / journals:
AutoInsider
Car Connection
WAW
AN

But have to agree with bumpy, I'm not digging an SS for everything mantra (similar to "an AMG in every flavor). Seems to water down the moniker. Just doesn't seem right (rebuilt a 66 Impala SS, almost bought a '63 but the floors / sheetmetal were too far gone).

I would have thought if they were going to do the SS on the HHR they would have put it on the panel version. BTW, I saw a panel version of the HHR the other day, believe it was a custom job, not sure if the factory version is out yet.

m1miata

The Impala appears to sit high to me. As for looks, I can see the plus side at some angles. There are some views, like frontal, where the Impala has a smoother line flow off the nose. Overall, given a refresh, they did an amazing job of making it look new. And the little chrome here and there went a long way. The underpinnings remain however. To me it seems like it would be good enough to rent for a vacation, or for use as a company / salesmans car. For personal use, I would still prefer the more nimble Accord, Aura or Fusion. For interior refinement, I still prefer the Accord or say an Aura over the Impala, though for an economy large car, the Impala is not too bad. If I was an older person in search of transportation over the next ten years, the Sonata or Azera comes to mind. I found the Sonata to be a good and solid, 85% car. Not as good, but close to the best, IMHO. Mate that to a 10 year, and 100K warranty, and some $5K to $7k less price wise, it ain't so bad. Try to sell one a couple years after buying, could be all too bad. Another value is a one to two year old Monte Carlo. Ever see those prices -- wow, pretty low!
Loren

m1miata

Of course, gone is the cheap transmission repairs, so well talked over here. The six speed will be more to fix. So yeah, damned if you do, and damned if you don't! Well, not really. I think it is a smart move to get the gas mileage up and for image to have the six speeds. I hear your side, the side in favor of the four speed, in regard to repair costs, but this is a new era for gas prices, and for performance. In order to be recognized as good product in car reviews, I am thinking a starting point is transmissions and gas mileage. A modern engine helps of course. I have listened to your side about the benifits of a four speed in cost, and how it works well with the v8. I have driven such a car a few months back, and it did work well. Some good point made.
For the four banger engine, I think a five speed or six will do wonders. And yes, I can see how the four speed may even work for the six cylinder cars. That said, just go out and test the Aura XE, then the XR and come back and post here as to which seems the best. Not adequte, or working well, but rather which seems the best. I own a car with a five speed mated to a six, and it does work well. That said, I really liked the six speed with paddle shift idea of the XR Aura. It is good that things are changing at GM, like the new transmissions to keep image, gas mileage and performance up or bring up to top standards. Not sure if the CVT is a good thing or not. Seems strange, at least when first encountered on a test drive. Is Nissan on to something good or bad?
Loren

andres3

You have to check parking lots and garages for "broken down" Neons. Also auto repair shops are a good place to look. I don't see many on the street at all anymore, a very rare sighting indeed to see a Neon on the road. Guess they are all in the junkyard by now! :sick: :lemon: