General Motors discussions

ubbermotor

Chevrolet was not intended as a luxury car. Yes the first few years were expensive, but Durants plan from the beginning was aimed at Ford, which was the whole point in bring Chevrolet in on the project in the first place. Becuase of production costs it had to start out higher and work its way down. Once GM took control(?) Chevrolet was able to offer more for less and many thought Ford would go under.

ubbermotor

Interesting site.

"Cadillac Automobile Company is organized in Detroit by Henry M. Leland"

Organized? Thats funny. How about recorganized as half of the broken up Henry Ford Company.

fintail

Just look at a 1903 Ford and a 1903 Caddy...

ubbermotor

You mean this;

http://www.users.qwest.net/~ubbermotor/histp/03FORDA.JPG

and this;

http://www.users.qwest.net/~ubbermotor/histp/03Cadillac.JPG

I don't see any similaritys.

sls002

Do you really understand what the Dewar trophy was about? There was only one for the Standardisation Test - I am looking at the reproduction of the award as I type.

The second trophy was for the electric starter.

ubbermotor

I'm not sure I understand your question. I know what the award was for, and the process that was gone through to make the determination. I know that within a few years virtually everyone was able to offer/repeat what Cadillac did to win the award (both times). Henry Leland was an egineering perfectionist and lead the industry in quality. When he left Cadillac he was outdoing Cadillac in quality within a year.

kodename

I'll let you do the math, how many vehicles in the GM line up look like Pontiac G6 clones with different tailamps and grill? Well, there's the Buick version and the Chevy version, maybe you can't see the G6 in the doors and silouette,as well as the rest of the cars? Is there anything unique in the entire GMC stable? Please, spare the minutae of a different dash or seat fabrics,etc. Do your homework , because there are more of everything already(duplicates) in the pipeline. GM can't avoid it, and as I stated before , others do it as well, it's just GM has beaten the concept to death and they've gotten lazy about covering it up. Bill C.

ubbermotor

"Do your homework "

Buick doesn't make a version of the G6. Chevrolets version is the Malibu which doesnt' share a single body panel with the G6. The G6 is the only one available as a coupe, and the Malibu is the only one available as a wagon.

kodename

GM is trying to go with "global platforms". I think this is their only hope of avoiding chapter 7.
reply:
I agree, I don't like it , but I agree.
GM has shown no talent at keeping any heritige however for any of it's brands.Frankly , they pissed it all away years ago to save a what was a few pennies. They look alike and are often build on the same line.You see it in the doors, and roofs mostly, but at any angle it too easy to tell it's a rent-a-car body styles that airport parking lots are full of. Vanilla is vanilla, , and you can't sell vanilla as chocolate and/or strawberry by just adding food coloring. You see , they'll all still taste like vanilla!
As to the Corvette/XLR sales being equal to the old Allante. I have to think GM managers see that as a big "Win" for them. Manufacturing those Allante Bodies in Europe and flying them here for final production via 747's must have been terribly costly compared to popping out a few Caddies at Bowling Green. Remember , back in Allante's day , GM was still drunk with money to waste--money they no longer have. Bill C.

imidazol97

Buick doesn't have a G6-like auto. Guess they really covered that one up.

I guess the Malibu is a similar size????? Are you sure you're thinking of the right car?

imidazol97

Maybe you should check out Ford's line for the Fusion, Milan and Zephyr. Aren't those all the same platform just like the Crown Vic, and Mercury, and Town Car in the end?

62vetteefp

The G6 is based on the epsilon architecture developed in Europe recently and is a smaller midsize. The smallest Buick is the LaCrosse which is based on the old W architecture developed here in the mid 90's and is an almost large car size on the outside. They look completely different with wheelbase to overall length ratio to width to probably not sharing a single part number since they do not share any engine parts. Perhaps they do share a tranny? Do not know. I cannot see how anyone can say they even look close or share an architecture.

The Malibu looks nothing like the G6 and styling wise I do not see one shared part with the G6 either exterior or interior. Engines maybe. maybe tires?

I did say that the trucks do share quite a bit and I believe is a mistake on GM's part. But the Trailblazer and Envoy are significantly different on the outside and share no parts on the exterior styling? Every article I see on the new Saab variant says it is quite different from the other brethen and an excellent vehicle.

I have not seen the new GMC full size SUV so I cannot say what the differences are from the Chevy.

I am not sure what homework I could do. Perhaps you should take the cloud of whatever it is from over your eyes and see the cars as they are. Yes that article in the, what was it, 80's, did show how identicle the cars were and perhaps it was a mistake. Or perhaps it allowed GM to make it thru the 90's? But at this time there are no cars that are just badge engineered. I am waiting though to see if they screw up with this new Pontiac Pursuit which some believe will be a Cobalt clone.

Thanks for the discussion.

kodename

The Impala and big Buick look the same to me,(is it Lucerne or Lacrosse?), and in turn they look like a clone of the 4 door G6(a realy hard body style to warm up to IMO) It looks like a 400lb woman sitting on a 3 legged stool.I haven't bothered getting too aquainted with the names(Buick)because I don't think they'll be around that long before GM once again decides to fool us into thinking they have something now even better. If they are different, they have managed to fool me. If the G6 and the buick are not the same car, then I'll confess I thought they were. They have that same bloated tomatoe look. Bill C.

62vetteefp

Here are photos of the exteriors. I threw in a Camry since it looks more like a LaCrosse than the G6 looks like a LaCrosse

http://www.buick.com/lacrosse/gallery_exterior.jsp

http://www.pontiac.com/g6sedan/gallery.jsp

http://www.toyota.com/camry/exterior.html

xrunner2

The Impala and big Buick look the same to me,(is it Lucerne or Lacrosse?), and in turn they look like a clone of the 4 door G6(a realy hard body style to warm up to IMO)

If GM pulls plug on Buick, Lucerne would be an acceptable sedan offering under Chevrolet name in mid-high 20's. Lucerne name goes better with Chevrolet than Buick name. Both sound European. Wasn't Chevrolet French and Lucerne Swiss? Folks buying Chevies for all these years were patronizing the French name as opposed to apple pie American Ford.

giantkiller

"C1 cars just about dominate EUDM .. the Focus and Mazda3 duo makes everyone eMse play catch up, including Golf and GTI... Corolla is dead in the water in Europe.. "

I admit that the Euro Focus is selling well but the Corolla is doing good too. Better than the Mazda 3. I see a lot of Corolla Runx's and Verso's but very few Mazda 3s. The sales statistics in Europe for both brands will prove this. I disagree that the Golf and GTI are playing catch up to either Euro Focus and Mazda 3. Europe is haven for small cars, I dont believe that the mazda 3 or Focus has achieved that level where it is the benchmark for small cars in Europe. You havent scratched the surface yet.

bobst

"But the sad fact is that the days of $26/hour and free benefits is over and is never coming back."

Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant stores.

Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more.

They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks.

Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to your hometown.

From Bruce Springsteen's 'My hometown'

kodename

62vette, I've been accused of hating all things GM, I hope that's not always the case, but your posting wants to say that the GM look-alikes of the 80's were "perhaps" a mistake or that it allowed GM to survive the 90's.I'd submit it was the 70's,80's and 90's that put GM where it is today. While I seem to condem all things GM , you seem to try hard to be my mirror image. I like to bring up the Vegas,the Citations,The V8-6-4 Caddys, those mid 80's Cutlass Cieras/Buick Century/Chevy Celebrity beautys, and a seemingly endless flock of GM junk as a reminder of what to expect from GM. You seem determined to see the coin from another side. I suspect we both are grinding axe's? For your sake I hope your 401K is not buying GM stock :P Even if I bite my tongue and close one eye, I can't see GM's current offerings leading to anything but a smaller market share. Bill C.

62vetteefp

I agree that GM will continue to lose market share. How much it will go I do not know. Hoping 20% is the bottom. Issue is really getting it to be profitable and that will be tough with all the legacy costs/exchange rates/helath care/etc. I actually agree with many of the things you say. Just like to bring out the facts and the G6 does not look anything like the LaCrosse except for the 4 doors.

I loved my 81 Citation. used to carry everything in it and pull my Hobie Cat. To be 21 again!

As I said earlier it is not time to buy yet. The price will not go much lower but it will be awhile before it starts to go back up. I think at the end of the 3rd quarter this year there will be upside to GM profit and the stck price will double quickly.

kodename

Maybe you should check out Ford's line for the Fusion, Milan and Zephyr. Aren't those all the same platform just like the Crown Vic, and Mercury, and Town Car in the end?

I agree.
The Lincoln looks the most different, but it still smacks of A Ford.I guess if your a pre-Sold Ford fan that's a good thing? Ford has many of GM's problems, but on a slightly smaller scale. Ford management,far from excellant, does seem more aware of what their problems are.If both firms were selling cars at a $1500.00 loss each , who ever sells the most cars then would be the loser??? I do think historically Ford has done a better job of coming back from
the dead. The Granada saved their butts as did the Taurus. Who won the sales race between Corvair and Falcon? Of course theres the Mustang II, and the Pinto,the LTD II, and a few more misses in the Ford garage too.Edsel,anyone?
GM as the "big-gun" of the old big three, has to take the most responsibility for screw ups. They had the most money, most volume, most engineers, and they and they alone frittered it away, They'll blame everybody else,as they always have.(unions,imports,regulation,etc.) and that's the reason they will keep failing. It is more interesting now because the dummies have run out of cash and their credit stinks, yet management still struts around like they are Mick Jagger and it's 1968. Bill C.

imidazol97

>does seem more aware of what their problems are.If both firms were selling cars at a $1500.00 loss each , who ever sells the most cars then would be the loser???

But I think you are on a point. However it's the Japanese theory when they (were/are) dumping products in the US. It's better to keep the factories churning out product and selling it somewhere at a loss than having the people being paid at the factory not making product. Japan has/had jobs for life, so selling TVs, VCRS, microwaves, etc., at below cost after they copied them was a way of keeping factories churning.

The automobiles are the same here. If GM makes cars that is better than having a lower production rate, even if the cars are going to be marked down, sold to fleets, put in rentals, sold on lease...

kodename

62vette, I think any upturn for GM will be brief. Setting aside my GM thoughts , I see the US economy going into a rut all summer.Energy costs are killing many business's and city governments.They have to pass this cost along soon andny it will mean further belt tightening and/or job loss. The war,health costs,natural disasters and the very,very real possibility of terrorists taking out a pipe line or two has put our economy in a vise.George Bush is no economist, and has himself never had to worry about the price of anything, so he's clueless to all this. With that backdrop and with China about to come on line with US vehicle sales, then there's Honda,Toyota,Hyundai , all with FAT, to very FAT bank accounts how's GM going to do it? Under the current world situation, no way will Congress "Bail-Out" a GM like they did Chrysler. GM needs too many things to go perfect to crawl out the hole they put themselves in. A perfect storm for GM would be a booming US economy, low interest rates, no new competitiors, and a major crippling recall for Honda and Toyota. Oh, and add to that a smooth give back from the UAW reguarding wages and benefits. DO you (or anybody who reads this) really see all that happening in 2006-07? GM's cash reserve is running out fast, it can't wait for 2008. Already there are too many vehicles chasing after too few buyers,and that's going to get worse, not better at least near term. Somebody has to leave the table. Who's in the worst possible position? Clearly in my mind, it's General Motors Corporation. Maybe they'll have to change the name to Private 1st Cass Motors, keep Chevrolet,maybe Cadillac
and be happy with Nissan-like sales volumes? Bill C.

explorerx4

in a stange way, that makes more sense than honda buying gm, which i doubt it could. chinese engines in equi's already? hmm...

igor2

link

there Golf wins, but un AUS, the engine in the Focus is smaller and was the losing point in that comparo (they compared the 2.0 130hp Zetec to the 200hp turbo dsi..

(ALSO IN THAT LINK ... you can read what magazines outside US think about the Corolla)

overall in non0english reviews I saw Foucs is generally better on suspension, interior ,engines... everything..

Igor

kodename

I think even when the Japanese were accused of dumping products(vehicles) here they still made a decent profit. Personally I think the Japanese make a bigger killing percentage wise on replacement parts over and above what Ford or GM do. Also the Japanese have been more aggressive charging dealers for services that domestics makers for years did not charge dealers for. I have to bite my tongue here a little. I have experience with Japanese vehicles that have not increased in retail costs for 6 years while I've seen the individual parts for those same units go up in price 3 to 6% every year. It looks like they are holding the line on price when they are actually raising their profits thru more aggressive sub-letting to ever cheaper parts suppliers, and raises the parts price. Right now , it's very vicious , and with China coming , I see no let up. Bill C.

claydog

Dont count on GM to slowly sink. They have bright minds in leadership roles and will do what it takes to compete. No government loans or handouts necessary. Takes a bit of doing to remodel a house this big in short time. It will be done wisely. I believe.

giantkiller

Were talking about Europe here aren't we?
European version of the Corolla is different from Australia and North America. Try to Google Toyota Germany or even Peugeot. The Peugeot in this Australian comaparison is the old 307. I'll tell you mazda3 has nothing on the new Peugeot 307 or the Citroen Xsara.

rockylee

Well mirth if that was offered to the Delphi workers I believe it would be taken with a future promise of contributing more raises to the retirees pension fund, and a good company match to the 401Ks of the new generation, when Delphi gets back on it's feet.

Rocky

igor2

The US and AUS as well USA morels of the Corolla are the same platform and interior .. technologically they are the very same mechanically identical cars.

The AUS and EUDM versions differ only in details, the USDM version has unique bodywork, but the underpinnings are identical..

BTW I am from Europe .. I know my cars... I lived there all my childhood, now I live in US.. I follow both of the markets.

Finally Xsara? that is 8 year old vehicle that is so outdated it is not even a competition... I wonder where you get you info (My dad has owned a XSara-Picasso for 5 years) the Citroen C4 is the competition to Mazda3

All the cars in the comparo are the same in main things than EUDM models currently offered. There might be small differences in details like features and angine offerings.. but for example the Corolla's engine in the comparo is identical to the engine used in EU as well as US, the same goes for the transmission.

Igor

larry75

Face it the problem in this country is the Union has driven the cost of doing business up to insanity. $35.00 an hour to sit on a chair and put in a few bolts? WHY? Consumers have grown tired of paying $$$$$$$$$ for american made autos with a 30/36 warrantee. Just a few years ago we all made fun of Kia a "Crappy Car", now Kia is a best buy. Wake up America, the Union price tag has driven the cost of business right over sea's If HONDA was to buy GM the first thing they should do is get rid of the union, pay a fair wage for a day's work and work smarter to keep manufacturing in the US.

bumpy

Dont count on GM to slowly sink. They have bright minds in leadership roles and will do what it takes to compete.

If they're so bright, why did they wait until the Titanic was halfway to the ocean floor before noticing there was a big hole in the side of the boat?

m1miata

Evidently does take a long time for the comeback of this company, as we all have been waiting for three and a half decades now. Oh what the heck, we should cut some slack and give them another couple years. Dream big, like Walt Disney, and all is possible. If the current management does pull the rabbit out of the hat, and happy days are here again, then I say double their salary. It would be the ultimate turn-around of all times, and a job well done.

"claydog" it seems you believe they can do this. Glad there are those that optimistic enough to use the term believe when speaking of GM as a whole. You obviously see something there which looks promising. Best of luck to all at GM be it management, or hourly workers. It could happen.

Loren

2007cobra

I laughed when I read where GM's brass made fun of the 2005 mustang. Saying that retro styling was dead and the new mustang would kill FoMoCo. They also said that GM's aim was to style a car for the next gen car buyer. It started with the new GTO. A flop! The same people running the company was losing Billions of dallors from the lack of sales and poor quality vehicles. I'm sure Ford brass is loving the new mustang. It's helping keep them afloat as does the Ford pickup trucks. Sure Ford has their problems as does Chr/dia. All American cars are losing market shares.But I see Ford coming up Ok because the Fusion,mustang,F-150 are very good vehicles and are selling well. GM builds nothing that other than the corvette that people want to buy. I have a friend who worked at the GM plant in OKC who just lost his job after 25 years at GM. He said it was due to poor quality vehicles that didn't sell. American car companys better wake up.

giantkiller

I agree that the US , AUS and NA Corolla has the same platform, and similar in many aspects. But whats lacking in the US model really made the EUDM a better car. First a low center of gravity Hatchback that translate to better handling. Its not like the Matrix that we have here. Second ergonomics is better due to tilt telescopic steering wheel. Second better braking due to 4 wheel disk brake standard. Third is better engine choice from the frugal D-4D diesel to the powerful 1.8VVTi-L. Fourth there are Standard front, side and curtain airbag as well as ABS and EBD.
I'm not familiar with the Australian market Corolla but from what I gathered from Toyota Australia, they dont have the T Sport with 1.8L VVTi-L nor the Corolla Compressor.
That is why I totally disagree with you about the EUDM Corolla. Theyre not being "blown out of the water" like you said.

kodename

Hey Igor; I read those Truth About Cars editorials and GM deathwatch postings too. If people think I'm anti-GM they should read the articles at that site. The people involved are supposedly insiders , many times closer to the action then I am.I'm pretty mello in comparison! Bill C.

kodename

"Toyota Drops Prices on Entry 2007 Camry, Jacks 'Em Up on Top Models."
The above is taken directly from a edmunds article. I'd have to call it a one-two punch.This can't help GM's chances at regaining market share in the mid size segment.
Even with GM"s "best & brightest" in command, who's going to want to risk their dollars on a unknown when the market sales leader has offerings in such a wide price spectrom? Toyota could out-advertise GM,and if they bring up numbers for resale value or customer satisfaction , or Consumer Report articles, GM hasn't a chance. Low percentage financing and rebates is all GM can offer to intice new buyers and that only adds to the preception (real or not) that their product is indeed inferior.IMO Bill C.

kodename

"The price will not go much lower but it will be awhile before it starts to go back up. I think at the end of the 3rd quarter this year there will be upside to GM profit and the stck price will double quickly."
reply:
62vette, if I'm still around then (3rd quarter) be sure to remind me how wrong I was! Bill C.

rockylee

OMG ha ha ha sitting in a chair and putting a few bolts in the car. I'd love for you to go work a day in any automobile plant both foreign and domestic. Larry you have no clue how hard the work is in those autoplants. Sure their are a few easy jobs, but the majority either require skills working with robots and other machinery, other jobs require you have strength, speed, and stamina to keep up with the line. My aunt is going to have to have both of her knees replaced. My father sets-up machinery to run a aftermarket fuel injector. He used to run screw machines and that is hard work.

BTW- your $35 dollar hour claim of a typical UAW worker is untrue. The avg. is $27 per hour + benefits. Why is it the foreign car plants such as Toyota with unions are doing well ???? Sure it's cheaper to be non-union, but I believe that everyone that's willing to put in a good days work should be compensated very well.

Honda makes damn good cars. The union workers wouldn't lower that quality if they were given the right equipment and materials to "make" good cars, something that GM doesn't do very well. Yes they are very much improving quality, but that's not because of the UAW or IUE, it has to do with the "bigshots" paying a few extra bucks for vinyl that is (silk,protein) enriched, higher grade of leather, instead of pleather(simulated leather) etc etc.

I agree the warranty's need to be improved. I'm assuming you'd agree that it would be a strong selling point for (residuals/resale) on domestic brand cars.

One more thing. Did you know that a "new" honda or toyota employee will make more money + benefits than a "new" UAW employee. This "overpaid" union issue won't be a topic in the future unless Toyota and Honda lower wages. Then my question will be what excuse will GM have then ?

:shades:

Rocky

plekto

Toyota has a huge cash reserve. They've been playing nice and not putting that into play with their models, but I suspect that this is the turning point - they finally gave up on GM's ability to survive and are going to well - compete as hard as they can now that GM's not a major player in their minds.

GM - to survive, must:
1:listen to the designers. Prototype cars are awesome. too bad 20% of that gets into the final jellybean-mobile.
2:PEOPLE HATE FRONT WHEEL DRIVE. FRONT WHEEL DRIVE HAS NO PLACE IN A LUXURY CAR. Okay - maybe, just maybe someone from GM is reading this - but seriously - slapping some interior and some sheetmatal on the same front wheel drive crud..
3:Customers are wise. Finally. It's exactly like in D.C People are finally figuring out that GM's beauty is truly only skin deep.
4:Cut every fleet vehicle out of your lineup and half of the duplicates. Subaru is a good, small company - and has no real duplicates. GM has to fface the fact that all it wil eb able to salvage, if anything, is a Subaru-like lineup of 10-12 cars plus its commerfical fleet lines/trucks.

BUT GM COULD BE FANTASTIC LIKE THIS. Seriously. Imagine if GM took the 15 cars that everyone wanted and tossed the rest. No more sub-brands - just "GM" and "GMC" for the commercial lines. They'd honestly sell almost as many cars to actual living breathing non-fleet/government customers as they do now, but every one would be unique, desireable, and well-built.

Subaru, btw, doesn't sell to fleets. Its parent company is also almost the size of GM - Fuji industries is massive - but concentrates mostly on commercial products. GM shoudl do the same - GMC and diversify into tractors and big-rigs and trains and so on... And make Cars a smaller 12-15 model setup - with totally unique and non-shared platforms. Ie - the 12-15 cars we all want from GM.

But I'm not holding my breath. It's just too radical of a change for them to contemplate.

But I don't see Mr. rock-star-in-his-own-mind idiot-boy making such drastic decisions. I see more of the same and believing that it can be salvaged with only tiny losses.

rockylee

I agree with you 100% !!!!

Rocky

rockylee

I agree with you plekto. I think a good down sizing would be good for GM. 2-3 names like Honda/Acura.

I'd like to see them break it down to atleast 4 brand names.

GM or GMC- Cheaper Cars and Trucks (Ford, DC, Toyota, Honda)

Cadillac- Luxury & Sport Lux- High End Vehicles(Lexus/Mercedes/Acura)

Hummer- American Macho "go anywhere" vehicles (like Jeep)

Saab-European "born from jets" flavor (Volvo/BMW-ish)

Bye Bye- Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Saturn !!!!!

Rocky

claydog

1974 at Chrysler. This is what a "deathwatch" is like. All programs canceled or delayed. Stock plummets to $3 a share. Wave after wave of layoffs and plant shutdowns. Workers running to the bank to see if their paycheck will bounce. The best hope is that Mitsubishi would buy the company or a merger with Volkswagen. Neither one is interested. The unemployment rate in Detroit is 22pct. Most facilities that can be are shut down from Thanksgiving 1974 more or less indefinitely. GMs diverse products helped it endure it while Chrysler and Ford sat on huge inventories of gas guzzlers they could not give away. The union gave all the concessions necessary at Chrysler.

The auto industry is inter connected by many factors such as parts and joint ventures. GM didnt want to see Chrysler fail then and I dont think anyone wants to see GM fail now and they wont.

george35

Spent some time in Alexandria,Va. recently. Traveled the beltway considerably and was struck by the LACK of American product on the road. Made a conscious count and I found (in two weeks of counting) 17 out of 20 vehicles were non-domestic. I consider the ownership (or where profits are returned) of the company as the determining factor. You want to know the problem? WE DON'T GIVE A DAMN AS A BUYING PUBLIC! So long as it satisfies our IMMEDIATE needs we will do it. Granted the US product has had its problems BUT if you believe the Foreign product propoganda you are worse off than I thought. When we lose our capacity as a Manufacturing Nation we ARE doomed ! History has proven it. Wake up !

62vetteefp

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060301/AUTO01/603010381/1148-

Perhaps Lutz was a little overzealous on the Saab thing??

62vetteefp

Looks like the restyled SUVs are selling beyond GMs best dreams. Can we hear profits again?

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060301/AUTO01/603010380/1148-

The Chevrolet Tahoe, the first in a series of large SUVs that General Motors Corp. is rolling out this year, is off to a strong start and suggests Americans still like their vehicles big -- and they like big American vehicles best of all, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said.

"We're selling them as fast as we can make them," Lutz said of the new Tahoe while at the annual motor show here. "What that's telling us is that the American public hasn't lost its taste for full-size SUVs. We're reasonably confident for the sales of the 900 series."

Jim Sanfilippo, an industry analyst with AMCI Inc. in Detroit, said large SUV sales likely will keep falling, but GM should hold on to 60 percent or more of all sales.

"The Tahoe looks to be the valedictorian of the class" he said. "What you have here is the makings of a savior."

igor2

The biggest difference between FoMoCo (the coplete corporation, not just Ford North America), DCX (again the whole Daimler Chrysler) and GM (again the global corp) is profitability, and sustainability.

Ford North America loses money in the North Maerican maerket.. they also are losing share here. The same goes for Jaguar. However FoMoCo has tons of other divisions that pull in money and have stable and growing maket share worldwide. First Volvo, Mazda, Land Rover and Aston Martin all are bringing in money and holding steady on all global markets including North America. Secondly, Ford of Europe, Ford Asia, Ford Australia, Ford of Americas.. etc.. they are also profitable and binging in money... Of course so is Ford Credit.

Now with DCX, they are profitable all around, but differently. While FoMoCo is incredinbly stable outside US, DCX is mostly stable in the US with Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep haveing had good past 5 years, while Mercedes Benz and Smart are struggling...

Finally GM is losing money in most of its operations, and does not have the supports from overseas that FoMoCo does..

That is the HUGE difference. FoMoCo and DCX are profitable. The worst thing that can happen to Ford is FoMoCo shutting doewn Ford of North America (and their Ford/Lincoln/Mercury trio) and simply expanding Ford of Europe to import their German cars to the US (I am not kidding) - the corporation is healthy and the fast that two of their divsions are in trouble does not matter much.

DCX, on the other hand is doing well right now, but since the North American division has history of boom and bsust cycles, there is iffy feeling about being TOO optimistic.. besically, since the corporation is being pulled by the US division right now, it needs little more bolstering overseas, where the marketis a little more stable.

Finally, GM is the one in huge trouble. The corporation does not have enough income to offset its lossy divisions.. if they were able to offset it, all would be dandy, just like FoMoCo.. if you can absorb the loss internally, and stay in black externally you are not in trouble.. not at all.

But GM is not able to do that and that is what will kill them.. it doesn;t matter which one of their divisions will make money.. but some of them need to -and unfortunately, unlike FoMoCo that started from overseas divisions first and only now getting to Ford of North americafor turnaround, GM decided that they wil start from the Nort American division first, which is a big mistake, because of the negative perception all Gm Marquess posses in this market. I twould have been much easier bolsterring Operl/Vauxhall and Holdem first, then fixing Chevrolet overseas, and once those are able to support the US division then get into that mess.

Igor

igor2

first 2-4 months of a model does not mean anything..

I will wait for September ....

I am not saying that they will not sell, but every new model has introduction rush in sales... and only once those sales are done you can see how well the model will sell over its life..

Look at Freestyle (the crossover from Ford) .. it sold like hotcakes when it came out.. now it does not sell well at all.

Igor

igor2

Thanks
that is why I posted it..

His commentary are usually perfectly on point.. he makes no assumptions. He know his sources and he uses them..

That commentary while harsh is perfectly true to its sources.. and it is an eye opener.

Igor

lemko

...the Tahoe is a nice vehicle for what it is and I don't even care for SUVs myself. GM has two cars currently occupying the top of my car-shopping A-list: the Cadillac DTS and the Buick Lucerne CXS.

george35

GM Streamlining for Profit

General Motors arguably "hasn't been the world's largest car company in 10 to 15 years," suggested the automaker's "car czar," Bob Lutz, during a Tuesday night dinner. "We were a conglomerate of four to five regional companies with relatively little to do with each other. No wonder Honda and Toyota have been cleaning our clocks." The tough-talking veteran said there may be a positive side to the threat of losing sales supremacy. It is a wake-up call for the GM team that it can no longer expect to win without putting up a real fight, Lutz said.

A number of steps are underway to improve the odds of a comeback, he added, starting with the switch to a global product development system this year. Among the goals, GM expects to halve the number of global architectures it now relies on for its varied vehicles. That could have saved $200 million just by having products like the Opel Signum and Malibu Maxx share more of their underlying components, said Lutz. The critical thing is to make sure that there is no badge engineering, he emphasized. The new GM system will reduce the number of prototypes it needs by 40 percent, said Lutz, saving up to $200,000 for each of the advanced vehicles. And GM expects the new development system to help it shave 20 percent in materials costs through the better use of economies of scale. Overall, GM is gunning for a 25-percent reduction in engineering costs and overall product development expenditures.

Under new global system, specific types of vehicles will be assigned to various regional development centers, no matter where the products will ultimately be marketed. Saturns, for example, will largely be developed in Europe, along with Opel vehicles, according to Lutz. Europe, he noted, does a better job on medium-size passenger cars than the U.S. Large trucks will be the purview of American engineers and designers. Small pickups will be handled by Brazil, while "very small cars" will go to Asia, primarily what used to be the Daewoo operation in South Korea. But Lutz stressed that while development might be focused in one country, "members of the team will look like the United Nations."