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General Motors discussions

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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Paul Ballew, GM's sales analyst, estimated the company's share of the U.S. market was less than 24 percent in February, lower than the 24.4 percent level in February 2005. Autodata said GM's share was 23.6 percent.

    Ballew also said GM is ``not announcing any national incentive program for the month of March.''


    What was the March Madness about?
  • bmk32bmk32 Member Posts: 74
    "and now they have no money to spend so there forced to think and share on the cheap"

    Not true. This is a company that has $25 Billion in cash reserves and is in the middle of unloading a majority stake in their GMAC finance arm that will pump another $12 Billion in cash into the company. GM has publicly stated numerous times both in print and in televised media that the cash reserves are for product development and that getting new product to market is the #1 priority.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Am I alone in thinking that problem with GM is a cost structure, not a number of divisions per se? If GM had only one division it still could not compete with Toyota.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    This is a company that...is in the middle of unloading a majority stake in their GMAC finance arm that will pump another $12 Billion in cash into the company.

    That's only about two years' worth of R&D spending. Not exactly a huge windfall in the scheme of things.

    This is a company that has $25 Billion in cash reserves

    Looking at GM's 3rd Quarter 2005 quarterly report (10Q), I'm seeing cash and marketable securities of $15.1 billion.

    I'm also seeing current liabilities of $74.7 billion, i.e. obligations to be repaid within one year. In addition, as of 9/30, the company has YTD pre-tax losses of $9.76 billion.

    Doesn't sound great to me. This could explain why the analysts on the Street are going to want to see significant product successes before they give their blessings to the stock.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    "Goldman Sachs analyst sees GMAC sale as stalled"

    DETROIT, March 1 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp.'s plan to sell off a majority stake in its GMAC finance unit to raise cash and cut its borrowing costs appears to have stalled, a Goldman Sachs analyst said on Wednesday.

    "Comments today at the Geneva auto show that General Motors is in no rush to sell GMAC, and that a sale is not necessary before next year, suggest the sale process has stalled," Robert Barry wrote in a research note.

    "This is consistent with growing press speculation that potential buyers are scarce," Barry said.
  • game81game81 Member Posts: 1
    if styling were the only thing wrong with GM theyd still be in deep trouble. They have nice designs and a few striking models but as pretty as it is The Solstice isnt going to save GM. GM needs to cut down on overlap of model lines (they only cannabalize their own sales) Interior quality and fit and finish must EXCEED what its foreign competition is currently offering. Styling is only what draws them in, we all spend more time in our cars them outside looking at them.
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    bmk32,
    They are selling off a majority stake in GMAC because they have to.They have almost no other way to go. Your figures may be correct, but with GM , the figures never have added up.They have used their massive size and global network to hide money losers and make them look like winners for DECADES. I stand by my statemnt that they have no money , at least not enough to do the job that is before them.They have to work hard just to keep the lights on now.
    A $1,500.00 loss per vehicle, and their percentage continues to go down.plants need to close now, not a year from now , but they can't do it. They are being hit from all sides now, and they don't have the guns enough(money) to fight all the enemy ships that surround them. It would take billions each to recreate and save Pontiac & Buick, and even if they had the cash, they can't wait the 18 to 36 months to see results. Like wise it would take billions to kill off either or both makes. Rebadging is back.soul-less rental cars is all they can muster.They kept Lutz and Waggoner at the wheel way,way too long.
    Bill C.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    A $1,500.00 loss per vehicle, and their percentage continues to go down...

    There was an article in WSJ today about Job Banks. It highlighted a guy with many years of service who goes to Job Banks every day from 6 am to 2:30 PM. It is in some kind of big room (like a study hall?), they get time off (?) to go to lunch and have to get permission from supervisor in charge to go to washroom. Article mentioned what it was costing GM per year. If you use that number and factor total vehicle sales in 2005, it might be costing as much as $200 for each vehicle sold to run the Job Banks program. I wonder what Honda or Toyota high management thought after reading this article. Might they have laughed, or maybe cried in sympathy, about this pathetic situation.
  • manegimanegi Member Posts: 110
    I wonder what Honda or Toyota high management thought after reading this article. Might they have laughed, or maybe cried in sympathy, about this pathetic situation.

    Actually (and I am not making this up, Toyota management has voiced this in public), they are scared. Scared because they cannot understand why a huge, powerful company like GM cannot turn itself around even after so many years of decline, and they (Toyota / Honda management) know that if GM goes down, the knee-jerk political reaction would be such that everyone will lose....

    No one in Japanese Auto industry is gloating at GM's decline, they want it to come back.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yep - and now they just dumped the whole Buick heritage line of names.....
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    There was an article in WSJ today about Job Banks. It highlighted a guy with many years of service who goes to Job Banks every day from 6 am to 2:30 PM. It is in some kind of big room (like a study hall?), they get time off (?) to go to lunch and have to get permission from supervisor in charge to go to washroom. Article mentioned what it was costing GM per year. If you use that number and factor total vehicle sales in 2005, it might be costing as much as $200 for each vehicle sold to run the Job Banks program. I wonder what Honda or Toyota high management thought after reading this article. Might they have laughed, or maybe cried in sympathy, about this pathetic situation.

    xrunner2,

    So what should they do with all the unemployed workers in the Jobs Bank. FIRE THEM ?????

    For Example: It's not the OKC peoples fault that the Chevy Trailblazer EXT, GMC Envoy XUV or EXT wasn't selling and that plant got shut down with only a 90 days notice. If their were jobs available, the people would much rather work. The article in the Detroit Free Press interviewed workers and they said they want to work. They said GM pumped hundreds of millions into this plant a few years ago and now it's closing. :confuse:

    What I'm trying to say is before you want to haul off and fire the workers in the Jobs Bank, why don't you petition for about 2000 white collar workers get fired and Uncle Rick and his corrupt cronies give back the hundreds of millions in salaries. If you include buisness decisions over the years you can easily make that billions they have lost from the cash coffers over the years. :mad:

    How about Uncle Jack Smith. He currently is still recieving his annual $1 million dollar pension and your going to "slam" the Job Banks ????? Please !!!! :confuse:

    I'm just sick and tired of everyone always pointing all the blame to the UAW workers. Why is it always the low man in everything this country does that ends up taking the "heat" or the majority of the "blame" ???????????? They only build the product the best they can with the materials and machinery given to them. If they see a damn improvement they offer it. My father got a "made in china" Delphi flash light on his $4 million dollar annual cost saving suggestion a few years ago. :sick:

    When management does get blamed(rare)..... I don't see very many people suggesting they get fired or have their pensions "Golden Parachutes" cut :confuse: Why is that ???? Are we as a society, conditioned to blame the low man for everything ?????? Shouldn't a highly paid CEO that makes poor buisness decisions, get the axe first ????? I guess it's just hard for me to understand the logic by many in this country. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    They are selling off a majority stake in GMAC because they have to. They have almost no other way to go.

    You are correct that selling off GMAC is really an act of desperation. But as noted in the Reuters wire story and plenty of speculation in recent weeks, GM doesn't seem able to find a buyer.

    So I'm not sure where the $12 billion figure came from, but even if they raised that much, it wouldn't barely cover a year of pre-tax losses.

    Speaking of pre-tax losses, it looks as if GM is on track for getting a good $3-4 billion in tax refunds, because those losses are deductible! Since those losses are being generated in North America, I think it's safe to be that it's the American taxpayer who will be covering that.

    So which company is better: Toyota, that pays taxes to the IRS, or General Motors, which will be getting billions of dollars of help from the US taxpayer in order to offset those losses from operations that it will be filing in this year's tax return?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well the Lucerne got a heritage engine - the 3.8 V6. I had a car back in the 1980's with that engine. Pretty good gas mileage. Plenty of problems too. I guess things got better after 1987. But really, is this car worth more than $25K ?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    For a full size, yes. Your willing to fork out alot more for a Avalon.

    Rocky
  • ayreonayreon Member Posts: 4
    I don't know if posting this is considered cross posting...so..if it's a no-no...let me know :)

    I've always been a GM fan...but now....I've had it...

    After having Pontiacs that are not even lasting over 50k miles....we've dropped out of the big 3 for good.

    1997 Firebird...50k miles...original owner

    replaced driver side window motor 2004

    replaced both pop-up light motors 2005
    replaced air compressor 2005

    replaced passenger side window motor 2006
    replaced steering wheel motor 2006
    replaced heater core 2006
    replaced tensioner gizmo 2006

    needs front end suspension work....front end is dropping down...can't even go thru oil change places without having to lift front end up.

    Also planned on a paint job due to white paint breaking down? orange/red specs in white paint on most plastic body parts....

    Noted major trouble spot....a leak with manifold/engine...don't even want to know if it's already there.

    Read many owner complaints that several repairs listed above continues over and over.

    1st Firebird(1987) owned 10 years with over 100k miles and know it lasted 3 more years before being totalled by then current owners. Only replaced 1 air compressor.

    2 Merc. Cougars 1984 and 1989 both ditched due to dead head gaskets(a problem Ford has had for many years and knew it).

    Bought 2 Mitsubishis end of Jan. and put Firebird up for sale.

    The 10 year powertrain warranty couldn't be beat. What is sad thou, the Firebird had a longer warranty all accross the board than the new GMs do. Could it be...they know the cars won't last....

    Discussing/debating the big 3 tends to be a sore spot in my area....the motor city...but am seeing more and more foreign cars than ever before....

    GM is going to have to do a lot more than bring back the Camaro to get the customers back....making cars of quality would be a good start....
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I am not interested in an Avalon, though I must say the Toyota engines is of a higher class and worth the few extra bucks over the price of the base Lucerne. The new Camry may be the best value. All in all, most FWD sedans are plain ol' boring, but based on the data and reviews, the Toy wins.

    the engine as quoted from Edmund's:
    Base Engine Size: 3.5 liters
    Base Engine Type: V6 Horsepower: 268 hp
    Max Horsepower: 6200 rpm Torque: 248 ft-lbs.

    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    You bought two Mitsubishi cars? How many dealers are in your area? I take it you feel that the dealerships, and the manufacturer are going to be here in the States for the long run. Some interesting cars they make. If all works out for them, as a comeback in the USA market place, I say great. I guess I am just being a little pessimistic. I owned a Stealth, made by Mitsubishi and it was a cool car, with a few more issues than my other Japan makes I have owned, with more expensive parts. Yes, the new warranty looks enticing. And it will help avoid their more costly parts. I hope it all works out for you, the dealers, and the company sales in USA. Dealerships in my area are down to one = not good.

    Loren
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    So what should they do with all the unemployed workers in the Jobs Bank. FIRE THEM ?????

    For Example: It's not the OKC peoples fault that the Chevy Trailblazer EXT, GMC Envoy XUV or EXT wasn't selling and that plant got shut down with only a 90 days notice.


    Sorry Rocky -- that's what happens in most of America if the job goes away. I understand your answer, but I'm suggesting you aren't well connected with reality in most companies.

    United Airlines, Delta -- work slows down, pilots/flight attendants get laid off, with some severance.

    Aerospace industry - defense spending wanes, people get laid off. Many have to find jobs in other industries.

    Computer industry - internet boom busts in the early 2000's - many lose jobs, have to find others or change industries.

    We would all like years of social protection, but that's not the way this country works. The jobs bank is a VERY unusual perk that is not typical in this country.

    How can any company stay competitive when it loses its flexibility to control its costs? (And yes, I agree that the management has sucked big time. But even if you fired the entire management team and lost their salaries, the savings would not be that significant relative to the wages of all the other workers.)
  • ayreonayreon Member Posts: 4
    We have 4 dealerships in the metro area with the one that we bought from being about 10 miles away. As far as stability goes, I figure they will be here for the long haul and I know the Eclipse already has a 15 year history. The Endeavor is quite new...being that it came out in 2004, but whatever the case...we can always ditch them down the road if they don't measure up. One thing is for certain, the resale value of the Eclipse is promising. I've been looking at used ones and find high miles the norm...much better prospects than what I've seen with the big 3...especially my Firebird.

    Your Stealth I fell in love with when they 1st came out. Unfortunately, when the new Firebird came about, the Stealth was discontinued and I did not know about the Mitsubishi 3000GT being the same thing as the Stealth...also..we were still dedicated to the big 3...primarily Pontiac. We still own a '92 Transport that has been the best of all cars.

    As far as expensive parts goes....I've dropped at least 4k in repairs on the Firebird in the last 12 months with at least 2k more to go for it to be up to par...and that doesn't include the paint job....that's almost 1/3 of a new car.

    If this Eclipse has the track record it has had in the past....there should be many many miles racked up before expensive repairs kicks in.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Toyota doesn't really pay taxes, except manadatory ones like on salary's. The republicans for years have allowed certain corporations to basically get away with no taxes and have encouraged foreign investment by offering no taxes if you build here. I guess that's the way capatalism works today

    ??? Sorry, but these companies do pay taxes.

    We've already covered this -- localities and states are eager for companies, including "American" ones, to build facilities that increase employment and spending in their communities. You can't expect Texas to give subsidies to Ford if it is going to build plants in Mexico.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well if the Job Banks goes then I demand that 2000 GM White COWARD Folks clean out their desks immediantly. :mad:

    They destroyed what was once the biggest corporation on the face of the earth.

    I also want the corrupt GM dealerships to have their licenses revoked immediantly. Starting with Autonation or should I say AutoNAZI. :mad:

    Sorry Rocky -- that's what happens in most of America if the job goes away. I understand your answer, but I'm suggesting you aren't well connected with reality in most companies.

    Ok what I'm saying isn't reality. However it's a damn good start. ;) I know what reality is and can hear it in there voices and see it on there faces. :sick: (My family's) I'm sick of the Greedy in this country ruining my country. This is my turf and I'm willing to fight against the cowards smoking a cheap cigars in Washington, and in the high towers in corporations and tell them "hold up" A-holes !!!!! The UAW and the International Union of Electronic, Electrical, Salaried, Machine and Furniture Workers-Communications Workers of America. (IUE-CWA) will fight them and if neccessary bring those cowards to their knees !!!!! :mad: Now that's a reality CHECK !!!!!!!

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    ??? Sorry, but these companies do pay taxes.

    We've already covered this -- localities and states are eager for companies, including "American" ones, to build facilities that increase employment and spending in their communities. You can't expect Texas to give subsidies to Ford if it is going to build plants in Mexico.


    Big Corporations like Toyota get state, local, federal tax exemptions for years. :confuse: Socala4, pal you know this. I do agree 100% with you Ford shouldn't get tax breaks for off shoring plants in Mexico. The sad reality they do get some tax breaks. :mad: John Kerry was asked this question in his campaign since his wife's company "Heinz" got the same treatment. *He paused* and said yes but it's not right and he was going to encourage more american investment with even more tax breaks for american buisness's. I didn't agree with his strategy and would rather close down free trade and level the playing field.

    The only way to make the playing field level will be by the government getting involved. If they can get involved in a sport called baseball, then damn it they can get more involved in domestic issues and make the players build what they sell here at the bare mininum. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    A company just locked out their union in Middletown, Ohio, at AK steel. That's going to set a tone for Delphi and GM workers when they watch how that is working. The company has replacement workers already and management running the steel mill instead of negotiating with the union.

    I hope that company fails miserably. :mad: I also hope those scabs get their butts kicked for taking someones income away :mad:

    Rocky
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Only problem with Calais...is that most people nowadays would probably associate it with Oldsmobile.

    Oh man is my face red!! :blush: I don't know how I could have forgetten the Olds Calais!
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Top 20 passenger cars for Jan & Feb.

    1- Toyota Camry: -------------- 54,794 down 9%
    2- Toyota Corolla: ------------ 49,975 up 1%
    3- Honda Civic: --------------- 49,510 up 46%
    4- Honda Accord: -------------- 47,331 up 7%
    5- Chevy Impala: -------------- 40,362 up 3%
    6- Nissan Altima: ------------- 36,838 up 2%
    7- Chevy Malibu: -------------- 33,066 up 29%
    8- Chevy Cavalier: ------------ 31,790 up 113%
    9- Ford Taurus: --------------- 31,571 down 8%
    10- Chrysler 300: ------------- 26,431 up 16%

    11- Ford Focus: --------------- 26,080 down 10%
    12- Hyundai Sonata: ----------- 25,384 up 51%
    13- Pontiac G6: --------------- 25,089 up 125%
    14- Ford Mustang: ------------- 24,575 up 1%
    15- Chrysler PT Cruiser: ------ 22,302 up 32%
    16- Dodge Stratus: ------------ 20,608 up 26%
    17- Dodge Charger: ------------ 19,885
    18- Nissan Sentra: ------------ 19,752 up 18%
    19- Ford Fusion: -------------- 19,142
    20- Pontiac Grand Prix: ------- 18,877 up 65%
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    - That's the Cobalt in the list, not Cavalier. Sorry! force of habbit.
    - Ford's best selling car is still the Taurus.
    - News about Chrysler's 300 loosing momentum has been greatly exaggerated. Not only is the 300 enjoying healthy sales, but its cousin, the Charger, is gaining.
    - The Japanese still rule. Is there stopping them?
    - The Hyundai's new Sonata is coming up strong, but Ford's new Fusion is yet to pick up strong sales.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    One of management spokesmen has been on the news piously talking about how they have a world market and have to compete and cut workers and costs. Wonder how many million he makes. Wonder how his salary compares to salaries in management in Chinese steel mills?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • igor2igor2 Member Posts: 148
    there was a report at Autoblog and Detnews yesterday

    .. GM incetinves on 06s - up to $6000 and on 05's up to $8000 so much for that..

    and March madness was announced... hmm... I guess we shall see..

    I know Ford has lease promotion for Zephyr and Mariner, to get customers from other brands.

    DCX was not decided yesterday, yet

    Igor
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    For a full size, yes. Your willing to fork out alot more for a Avalon.

    Actually, a base Avalon isn't a whole lot more than a base Lucerne. I did an Edmund's comparison, and the Lucerne CX stickers at $25265, with a TMV of $24,946. The Avalon XL stickers at $26775, with a TMV of $25,702. So according to Edmund's, less than $1000 speparates the two. I have a feeling though, that the Buick dealers will be willing to come down more than $319!

    Now, I don't think the Lucerne is a ripoff, in and of itself. It does give you a lot of car for the money. Roomy and comfy, with a nice interior. It's just that the Avalon gives you more for really not a lot more. I like the look of the Lucerne better, though. The Avalon looks kinda clunky to me.

    A few other large-ish cars...Chrysler 300 Touring, MSRP of $27725, TMV of $26823. On the plus side, Chrysler's 3.5 would perform better, and most people would find it more refined, and there's the RWD aspect. Styling is subjective, but the 300 is more bold and in-your-face, and has, perhaps, a "cool factor" going for it. In contrast, the Lucerne is just more subdued, and almost stealthy. The RWD also robs interior room, as the 300 doesn't have a good center seating position in back, and the trunk is smaller. And fuel economy is a bit worse. I think the Lucerne's interior is nicer trimmed than the 300's. Just seems a bit more classy and less plasticky. At this price point, the 300 has leather, while the Lucerne, Avalon, and others only have cloth.

    Ford 500 SEL, MSRP of $24,230, TMV of $22,975. Nice interior, but there's something a bit too Euro-spartan about it for my tastes. Huge trunk and backseat, and great headroom, but I find legroom to be a bit short up front. I prefer the seating position of the Lucerne, which is more big-car like, wherease I equate the 500 more to an old full-sized truck where you sat up high, but really couldn't stretch out. The Ford has automatic climate control, even at this price point. So does the Avalon. The Lucerne, 300, and Charger just have regular a/c.

    Dodge Charger SE: MSRP $22470, TMV: $22031. A pretty good deal at this price, and with a nice, standard 3.5 (none of this 2.7 nonsense). A little cheaped out though, with steel wheels with plastic bolt-on wheelcovers, and manual adjust driver's seat. And a pretty cheap interior. But it's a decent performer with the 3.5, although fuel economy is a bit worse than the Lucerne. Styling, again a subjective thing. I like it, others may not.

    So, in a nutshell, the Lucerne is a good car. But so is the competition. I think they almost got it right, but shot it in the foot with the 3.8/4-speed automatic tranny combo. All fine and dandy for people trading in their older LeSabres and Park Avenues, or moving up from a Regal/Century, but if Buick wants to be taken seriously as more of a premium brand, they need to shore up their base models.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...it is a cop-out that the base Lucerne has the 3.8/4-speed combo, but I know from experience it isn't a bad combo from my 1988 Park Ave and girlfriend's LaCrosse. Even the plain-jane Lucerne isn't a car I'd be ashamed of. I was surprised how nice it was when I sat in one at the Philly Auto Show.
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    The jobs bank is a frequint target here as a major reason that GM is in trouble. Frankly, the job bank doesn't look like such a good idea today PR wise for either the union or GM, and I'm sure it's costing them a good chunk of money. But the jobs bank did not create the current crisis.The jobs bank is not the reason the GTO will be cancelled or that the Cobalt is a woefully underwheling vehicle that can't compete with the Toyotas and Hondas. The jobs bank is not responsible for the all new underwhelming Buicks, the G6 Pontiac, or the destruction of Saab. For decades now the GM management looked to the quick and easy buck , rather than take on the union, they'd agree to anything to keep the lines rolling. I suppose there is a arguement to justify this, but to blame the job bank for all GM's miscalculations is a mistake and an attempt to cover up lousy management. Some in the jobs bank are putting this time to good use doing volunteer work,others I'm sure are not. If you think only union members are sometimes lazy , take a look at our congress or the Red Cross, or countless others who are cheating on child care , food stamps, rent subsidies,income taxes and on and on.
    Bill C.
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    Maybe on the outside Toyota is worried about the demise of GM , but I wonder what they are saying in the corporate washrooms at Toyota's H.Q.? I got a feeling they know exactly what they are doing and they know exactly how to play the game. They have seen GM from the inside and they know perfectly well how GM operates. GM and the old big three have gone boom and bust, up and down for 100 years. Toyotas approch seems to be slow & steady , never resting. On the inside , I believe Toyota is amazed that the GM board has let this current GM team go on after so many mis-steps. In Japan , when you fail it's shameful, you step aside and fall on your sword for the company.(Mitsubishi Excluded) How can they understand the GM system that blames everybody else and demands huge salaries for unproductive "stars" like Lutz and Waggoner? GM's biggst gift to Toyota is showing them how NOT to run the biggest corporation in the world. Bill C.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Maybe on the outside Toyota is worried about the demise of GM , but I wonder what they are saying in the corporate washrooms at Toyota's H.Q.?

    They're probably standing around the boardroom in Tokyo laughing like Dr. Evil and his cronies in that one scene in the 2nd "Austin Powers" movie.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    Your not alone.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Look at Freestyle (the crossover from Ford) .. it sold like hotcakes when it came out.. now it does not sell well at all.

    It actually never "sold like hotcakes" but has been doing well, which is why Ford decided to keep it rather than rename it and move it over to Mercury next year as was the current plan from what I've read.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Badge engineering ran rampant!
  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    I hope that company fails miserably. I also hope those scabs get their butts kicked for taking someones income away

    WHAT?!? Nobody is 'taking someone's income away.' 'Someone' refused to do a job, and another person was hired to do it.

    The loss of income is squarely on 'someone's' shoulders. Lay off the guy that chose to take a job.

    Turboshadow
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    The company refused to negotiate. The company locked them out despite an offer to continue on the same contract after the midnight deadline.

    >'Someone' refused to do a job,

    The management of the company is/hasbeen well-paid throughout this.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    The current Cadillac CTS-V isn't the BMW M5 killer General Motors hoped it would be. With the introduction of the more powerful 2006 M5, the CTS-V is 100 hp off the mark. Add in its lame interior and its vague steering and the Caddy's $50,000 price doesn't look like such a bargain.

    The above is taken from Edmunds home page.MY question would be: Why spend so much time, money, and resources on something that will never,ever be able to take sales away from BMW? If they can't build a better Civic, how can they expect to build a better BMW? Bill C.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    So if GM starts killing one division after another there will be no heritage and the only valuable thing that GM still has is a heritage. Everything else is much better in Toyota world.
  • aldwaldw Member Posts: 82
    Because the CTS-V is a M3 fighter, not an M5 fighter. The STS-V is for that. Also, Caddy would never have improved if they said things can't be done, so don't try. Only naysayers and anti-GM people would rather have that.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...they bus those guys into the mill in an armored bus. Performing an Evel Knievel stunt on a motorcycle with no brakes and loose handlebars while barreling up a ramp made of rotten wooden and rusted corrugated metal sans helmet while wearing nothing but a tank top, shorts, and flip flops and using loose coarse gravel filled with scrap iron and broken glass as landing material is less dangerous than being a scab worker.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    could build a really awesome platform that hoards of people want to own, then they could afford to support various divisions. They could make different versions of the platform and have a mainline budget version to serve Chevy, a sporty version to serve Pontiac, a more upscale yet powerful version to serve Olds, a more traditional, cushy, but still upscale and powerful version to serve Buick, and a luxury version to serve Cadillac.

    Toyota kind of does the same thing with the Camry. There's the base model Camry for the masses, the SE for the sporty crowd, and the XLE for the luxury buyer. The upside is that Toyota can do all that with just one car. The downside is that all versions end up looking the same. Your XLE or SE really doesn't look much different from a base model. At least with the GM way, if done right, the cars all looked different and had their own unique style. But then you had Chevy buyers who wanted power, so you got the Impala SS, or luxury, so we ended up with the Caprice. Pontiac buyers who wanted a lower power car, so a low-tune version of the Catalina was offered, etc etc. It all works out if you make a car that's popular, and can support all those variations.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    They are in buses. I don't know if they're armored. The impact of having had the scabs lined up while pretending to negotiate has really raised the irritation level.

    The autoworkers 20 miles north are really watching this and getting all fired up about Delphi and GM's approaches to negotiations.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Igor, could you put a link to the $6000 incentives? I am looking to get a new truck and I cannot find them anywhere. I find that the 2006 Envoy I am looking at has only $1000. thanks

    also I cannot find any March madness stuff.

    Edmunds is showing no cash rebates.
    http://www.edmunds.com/incentives/RebateController?step=1&setzip=48025&tid=edmun- ds.n.incentivesindex.incentives.1.1.*#gmc
  • george35george35 Member Posts: 203
    Click on the photo gallery section on the top of the page of the link below. 22 pages/24 pictures each of the offerings of the world market.

    Enjoy!

    http://www.salon-auto.ch/en/
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    "Only naysayers and anti-GM people would rather have that."
    Oh , Come on now. I am quoting Edmunds and said so.
    The "improvement" you mention at Caddilac hasn't reaped much of anything for the billions spent. They've made more money selling rebadged GMC Sport Utes as Cadillacs. Bill C.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    the biggest incentives are on 2005's. GM's website shows them under current offers.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    those are really different trims for the Camry. What Toyota really does is makes an Avalon out of the Camry and a Lexus ES.

    The old Impala SS came with a six cylinder engine standard. When the Impala was new, in 58, it had a nice interior. After it became top of the line, I think that it sort of slipped back some, to just better than the Belair, but the Belair slipped a bit too. Adding the Caprice moved the top of the line up some, but about that time the factory exec's were required to drive their own cars, not Cadillacs. So the Caprice was done to give Chevy exec's something nicer to drive.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Well, the M5 costs more than $80,000. I would hope that one gets something for the money that a $50,000 CTS_V does not quite have. The M3, which is really more the CTS_V's competition is about $55,000. Perhaps the real question is whether the CTS_V is worth the extra money over the GTO.
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