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Mergers lead inevitably to platform and parts sharing which dilutes brand image. Sharing platforms, switches, etc. with Ford and Chrysler vehicles doesn't make Mercedes and Jaguar fans very happy.
I can believe the 7er being a hot seller despite its weird looks...I talked to a BMW dealer over the summer and he stated they weren't staying on the lot for even a day - his allocation was being preordered. Of course, I live in Bellevue.
I went back and looked at what I wrote. I think there might have been some misunderstanding. All I was saying was that if a worker was striking, then his job wasn't being done. I don't have a problem with someone else filling that position.
I know we disagree on that point. But I wasn't spewing anything...I promise ;-)
Turboshadow
After reading thru this years Consumer Reports Auto Issue, I think all domestic and German makers could use some time in the woodshed. In 1999 C.R. recomended the C280 Benz, look at it's ratings now! Why hasn't someone come along to challenge Toyota? What's their secret, why can't GM,Ford or Chrysler or Mercedes duplicate it? There's a lot more to it than wage structure. What's the future hold, more Toyotas & Lexus at one end and the Chinese at the other? How boring is that going to be?Bill C.
1st is the Dealer. I buy cars where I know people. It makes everything better. So, if my dealer friend sells Lincolns, I'll drive Lincolns, or if I don't like Lincolns, I'll by a used something else from him, but I buy where I'm known.
2nd is the interior of the car - it has to have all the gadgets to interest me, and be very pleasant to be in. Seats must be comfy (where the Lexus falls short, unfortunately). I have to feel at home inside.
3rd is quality. The car has to perform with minimal service. I don't have time for a ton of problems. Cars like that I dump.
This though, is after years of experience with every brand of car except BMW, JAG & Land Rover. Never had one of those.
The Solstice is plain wrong in styling. It is very awkward. I am so surprised people would buy sure a weird car. Oh well, to each his own. The Lucerne doesn't look bad. Just another GM car, especially with those 3.8 V6 engines. Whoopie! At least it ain't weird like the Solstice. May be better looking than the Avalon. Which car is the best car, well I personally don't care, as both bore me to death.
Anyway, some cars that sell or do not sell, just make you wonder if it is in the marketing, or era in which they are present. Really good cars can arrive at the wrong time. And people can not handle too much change - at least that was the old rule of thumb.
Loren
loren
Gadgets: You're right. Like my last Navigator with the power running boards, rear door, heat/cool seats, folding mirrors, etc. I had a few issues with all these gadgets, but never so much that I had to go in to the dealer between oil changes, so that's ok. If a car needs chronic repairs on stuff, it has to go. Lincolns did well for me. My Lexus just never breaks at all. I trust Fords, and I really trust Toyotas.
Wow, 192 days (approx. 6 months) to sell?! :sick:
Is that taps I hear in the background?
The 05 Magnum can be had in droves at the auctions for $12,000. I'm surprised it didn't do better.
I wonder how much they'd be willing to drop the price down?
Also, how do you think what's going on @ Delphi going to affect Dana, other companies under Chap 11 and future filings? - yes, do believe there are going to be more filings.
Are there any more Steve Miller's out there that need to be watched?
I think it's pretty cool but would never buy one because of the visability problems
I think the Magnum and the Charger are successful, they are just over produced.
The Charger is more my style. I love that aggressive thrusting front end with the scowling headlights. Chrysler has the "American" look. GM and Ford are trying to mimic Europe and Japan. Sometimes they do it better. The LaCrosse looks like a prettier Lexus GS.
Anyway, I meant to say Solara is the strange one.
Loren
Come to think of it, in terms of the "domestics" (GM-FOMOCO-Chrysler), if it's GM the vast majority are the fleet vehicles; personal vehicles it's Chrysler products. Only a few Ford products.
For Feb '06, they sold 4,694, down from 5,248 in Feb '05. For Jan/Feb combined of '06, they sold 8,459, compared to 10,315 in '05. So basically, they might be good for 50-60,000 units per year.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In looking at the GM & Ford line, it appears that the best bets may be the Corvette and Mustang overall. The Chevy re-work of the Impala, I must say is not too bad, though it still remains nothing really overwhelmingly better than others in its class. Kinda like the looks of the Fusion, but it is not fairing too well in crash tests. I can see the problem the big two have now = lack of cars. That said, I guess the Ford 500 and Crown Vic are pretty good at what they due, to be fair. In the FWD boring car race to the finish, it looks like Japan in the lead, followed closely by Hyundai of Korea. The Impala is certainly more in the game now.
Loren
Hey, lets just wait and see which one gets up to 50 days supply first. It should be the Solstice because of its head start but I bet neither will ever get there unless GM lets it hang on to long w/o changes.
It wold also be interesting to see which one gets more imports traded in. I would bet a lot it would be the Saturn.
The Sky isn't so "pretty", but seems to have a tougher, more tomboyish look about it. To me it's like comparing Farah Fawcett or Jaclyn Smith to Kate Jackson on "Charlie's Angels". IMO they were all attractive, but Farah and Jaclyn just seemed more stereotypically pretty, whereas Kate just seemed like she'd be more fun and adventurous, and more of a wild woman that's not afraid to get dirty.
I dunno if that's the best analogy in the world, but it's the only one I could think of :shades:
GM is getting very serious about the Opel/Saturn link up. I know some skeptics here have mentioned past Opels to NA that were dumbed down.
Plain logistics are the reason I do not think that is an issue now. In the past, NA engineers with nothing else to do had to put their thumb prints all over Opels to the US. With all the downsizing at GM, I reckon what engineers are left have their handsfull. Opel will change the fascia on the Saturns. And the Saturns will be built in the US unless the Euro heads south. Otherwise, Saturns will be Opels.
My big question here is where does this leave Pontiac and Buick? Much as Opel to Saturn, Pontiac appears to be morphing into the US channel for Holdens. Unless Pontiac/Holdens could make some real inroads with Nissan/Infiniti buyers, I do not see where the nice, but somewhat thirsty Holdens will really have a place in the US.
With Saturn moving to Opel, the market for Buick becomes even more pressed. Save the occasional tricked up Astra, Opels are, in fact, Europe's Buick. Durable, everyperson's cars with enough cachet to be acceptable to middle management and more conservative upper management types. As Saturns go more upscale, they will also have the advantage of not being the cars the ageing Baby Boomer's parents bought.
Buying an upscale Saturn may not be much different from Pops buying an upscale Buick, but there will be enough there to fool yourself anyway.
Still, maybe GM should divest itself of more foreign investments that haven't panned out (can you say SAAB??) before it attempts to close any more divisions.
I like the Astra hatch that they had in the coverage of the Geneva show - I don't see why Saturn couldn't sell that. But so could Chevy. The thing is, the General can't trick itself into thinking there are good reasons to have so many divisions for much longer. It doesn't have the money to make the cars genuinely different from each other on each platform, and looks alone aren't enough to justify the existence of so many brands.
And Pontiac selling Holdens? Not only are the cars not that well suited to the American market, for the reasons you indicated logic, but that would be a very expensive way to keep Pontiac alive.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Hang onto your Intrepid.
Read 2006 CR on Dodge Magnum and Charger and read an old issue such as 2003 CR on Intrepid. CR says that 2006 models have poor ride, handling and steering. Old 2003 issue of CR says that 2003 Intrepid had good ride, handling and steering.
Isn't it amazing how hype/styling wins out over substance and will bring in buyers for latest offerings. Remember the years of tv commercials for Intrepid espousing "Cab-forward" and FWD. Suddenly, Chrysler throws this in ash can and replaces with cars with worse handling and visibility and that are no better in MPG than previous generation. First gen Intrepids had good visibility, next gen got worse, then the Magnum visibility which seems worse than last gen Intrepid.
Seems like GM actually got it right with the total package of the Lucerne vs the LeSabre/Park Avenue cars it replaces. The Lucerne styling is an improvement and handling/ride/steering as well as interior improved. Even though the Dodge Magnum styling has better wow factor than the Lucerne, the Lucerne is a better achievement for GM than is the Magnum for Chrysler.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006603070306
If the plants really close for 2008 that will mean the RWD Grand Prix, Impala, Monte Carlo, LaCrosse will lose their home. Most likely the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix become RWD based on Zeta. Wonder what will happen to the LaCrosse and Impala which will only be 3-4 models old?
Am a Pontiac fan from the past, had 4. Pontiacs did have some great looking front-ends years ago. They started to look silly with last editions of TransAms having big nostrils. Solstice grille/front-end not quite right. Looks wimpy, not tough. Maybe this car will appeal to the girlie-men that Arnold refers to.
Yes, Lucerne looks pretty solid, but the base engine, just like in the Chrysler 300 / Magnums, should not be offered. Too little and not proper for the class of car. Wish they all would not place the emergency brake as a foot pedal. It belongs on the center console area.
As for the Solstice not looking tough, I suppose there are a thousand and one answers to that, but a simple who cares seems to come to mind first. If you need to feel really macho I would suggest driving those 16 wheeler trucks. And they pay ya to do it - go figure
Loren
Basically, it's 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. Falls into the same category as the old spare tire debates of the 50's...store it flat or on its side? No real right answer.
A good driver can use the foot brakes too, setting them just tight enough to hold the car, or not quite that tight, so that as the clutch is released partly, the combination of the clutch and brake will hold the car as one steps on the accelerator, lets the clutch out more and releases the brake.
The current small cars at Chevrolet, the Cobalt and the Aveo are relatively well appointed and competitive in their segments. They are more than likely profitable.
Second, as to Opel, did you read my post and link in #164 at all? Opel will design and engineer the future Saturns. The only changes will be fascia and the name plates - much as the current Vauxhalls are in the UK.
Finally, some of the Opels are designed in Germany. Others are designed in Italy, Belgium and even South Korea.
This is something I left out in my earlier post. I believe the smaller Chevys are going to be designed in South Korea. The Malibu or its replacement and the Impala, the cross-overs and the pick ups will be North American. Doubt GM will keep a Mini-Van, it it does, that will be North American as well.
The thing is, the General can't trick itself into thinking there are good reasons to have so many divisions for much longer. It doesn't have the money to make the cars genuinely different from each other on each platform, and looks alone aren't enough to justify the existence of so many brands.
That is the old - and never ending argument - about whether it is cheaper to kill brands or to keep them. I have no problem with eliminating Pontiac/Buick/GMC in theory. I am not convinced it is cheaper to do so than to keep them plugging as is.
from the business pages this morning that GM has sold all of its stake in Suzuki but 3%, back to Suzuki. The fire sales continue as GM tries to raise cash. I wonder if it made anything near a profit on this one.
GM bought its stake in Suzuki in the 1980s. I imagine it has pretty much amortized the investment. Suzuki and GM will continue to run GMDAT as a joint venture. This has been very lucrative for both companies, as today's business news also show.
Um, in an emergency, how are you going to hit the brake pedal, clutch pedal, *and* a foot pedal parking brake at the same time?
Foot pedals are okay for automatics and bench seats, but any vehicle with aspirations toward something other than the rolling hearse trade should have a hand brake.
So we could potentially see the next Cobalt come from there also? With Suzuki selling its own version from its own dealers, independent of GM influence?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For most people it probably doesn't matter. In the long run, whatever your used to and can work with the quickest in an emergency is what's safest. That will vary from person to person. No generic right answer here.
Read the bios (shown with pictures) for Magnum and Charger shown in April, 2006 issue of CR. I think you can get straight (non-baloney), though non-enthusiast, info from CR.
Lucerne would be good buy with V8 and MSRP about 25K-30K offered only with a V8. Emergency brakes used to be hand lever below dash on left side in American cars of past. Don't know when they went to "goofy" pedal. Pedal cannot be regulated as well as center mounted hand brake found on many foreign brand cars. I would agree that center mount hand emergency offers superior control.
Pontiac is supposed to be "performance" division not wimp division. They had this in 60's but lost it along the way. Don't think that "performance" cars should be described as pretty. Think that Pontiac sponsors some of NHRA and his big inflatable Pontiac balloons propped up at end of quarter mile in TV interview area. Alas, there are no true Pontiacs or Pontiac engines used in televised comp.