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General Motors discussions

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  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    So we could potentially see the next Cobalt come from there also? With Suzuki selling its own version from its own dealers, independent of GM influence?

    Yep. The current Cobalt should be the last GM compact designed outside of South Korea. Everything new will be based on whatever replaces the Daewoo Lacetti: Suzuki gets a Forenza, Chevy gets a Cobalt, and and Saturn gets a rebadged Opel Astra. The only thing the locals get to do is choose which body styles and engines they want to sell, then play with the interior and suspension tuning.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I think if GM can find a solid partner in China, it won't be too many years before anything that can be sold there (mid-and large-size cars, for instance) will also be designed and built there and exported to the U.S., and the only models left being designed and built in the U.S. will be the NA-only models like large pick-ups and SUVs. You watch, that's offshoring 101.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Got it in one. Of course, if Rick Wagoner were to simply announce that, Wall Street would cheer but the UAW would riot and burn the plants down. Nonetheless, that is the super-double-secret game plan.
  • riposteriposte Member Posts: 160
    OK...here you go:

    1) Given that Toyota makes a better car than GM, but doesn't have quite the history:
    a) Toyota buys GM.
    i) Sells off the parts business. This would be a great cash cow! GM cars break like a twig in a hurricane, so there's big money to be made in replacement parts.
    ii) Take the "Corvette", "Camaro", "Electra 225" :-) "GTO", and whatever other few car names have any credibility. I'm sure Toyota would be able to do them justice. Perhaps that new $170K Lexus could be named "Corvette".
    iii) Sell everything else to Hyundai, so they can
    change their name to "Chevrolet", or "Pontiac". They could rename the "Azera" to "Cadillac" or perhaps "Sedan deVille", since those names, while not sufficiently useful for Toyota, probably still have more panache than "Azera" for Hyundai.

    That's it! Simple, no?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Oh heck, there is the STS, then the CTS, and now the BTS in Europe. I might forget the dang T in the middle and just call it the BS model.

    Ya know that BTS in a coupe may be kinda neat idea, but I think it is FWD. Needs to go RWD unless they shoot for the Audi and Jetta market.

    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    For emergency use = better feel and to get it out of the way of legs -feet, are a couple of reasons not to have the goofy foot brake as the emergency / parking brake. Automatic or Stick, no difference.

    Loren
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Possibly, but China is going to have to shore up its intellectual property laws before that happens.

    Chery are GM designs that its Chinese partner basically swiped.

    As it is, GMDAT has such low development and production costs that GM and Suzuki are making money building kits in South Korea then shipping them for final assembly in China and India.

    Clever engineers in those countries will eventually figure out how to reverse engineer the kits. But it makes things harder than when GM sets up the whole process in China.

    I think GM will always design and build Cadillacs, Corvettes, and probably even next generation Kappa cars in the US.

    Compacts and possibly mid-sized (though less likely - even Toyota and Hyundai are doing some mid-size design here) definitely will come from Asia. Watch Russia as well. A lot of very well educated and underemployed young people there currently waste their time developing computer viruses. A vast untapped resource.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    do any of you here think we will see more suppliers filing at a faster pace than before?

    Also, how do you think what's going on Delphi going to affect Dana, other companies under Chap 11 and future filings? - yes, do believe there are going to be more filings.

    Are there any more Steve Miller's out there that need to be watched?


    jae5,

    Pal unfortunately Delphi is just the tip of the iceberg. If the judge rules in favor of the company on March 31st and the workers get the shaft then it will encourage even more filings in my opinion.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It doesn't matter that much to me. However I do like the hand break because of it's ease of use. Especially on a hill with a stick. ;)

    Rocky
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    GM Selling Off Suzuki Shares to Raise $2 Billion Date Posted: 03-07-2006
    GM plans to unwind its 20-percent stake in Japan's Suzuki Motor to raise much needed cash —

    Not my words,but as taken from the Edmunds news site.

    To those suddenly hidden posters who liked to brag that GM was not in trouble and had all the $$ they needed. I have to say, your silence is deafening. :surprise: Bill C.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I've driven the Chrysler RWD Charger & 300. Thought they were ok, but not great by any means, in any respect. Power was ok, but traction control made it hard to have any fun in them. Still better than any FWD model, especially Pontiac, IMO.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You're right, Bill. Sure, GM has a lot of cash, but a lot more debt. Several people seem to have neglected that side of the balance sheet. Their debt dwarfs their cash reserves. I'm guessing Bob Lutz wishes he had a lot more stakes to sell off.

    I remember when Iacocca sold off Chrysler's Tank division, which was a cash cow for them, in order to make payroll. You have to do what you have to do.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Bill C. GM management admitted to having $22 Billion and change, in cash in a recent Detroit Free Press article.

    Yeah $2 billion is much needed when you lost $8.6 Billion.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    If GM would of contributed properly to the Bush Campaign perhaps he(Dubya) would of gave them a hand-out like he did to his oil cronies that were already making billions.

    Hell Dubai is proof that when you give a little you can get alot in return. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • ayreonayreon Member Posts: 4
    I have the GS and have been real happy with it. Yep...do have the sunroof and the over the top stereo...but...for me...I love bass and went thru my share of speakers in the firebird. I didn't notice if there were GS's with leather seats...always preferred velour type cloth.

    The 4 cyl has decent pickup and actually seems spunkier than my firebird....maybe, because it's smaller. I know I have to keep an eye on the speed, cause I seem to be going faster than I realize...also figure it's because it's smaller. Going from t-tops to a sunroof has it's pros/cons...but whatever the case..it's better than none :)

    Oh..and yes...wasted "bells'n'whistles" radio controls on backsides of stearing wheel...actually for the SUV too. Actually made me laugh at how silly the option is...just as assinine as a hand held remote that comes with new car stereos. Yep...actually have a remote for the stereo in the firebird...used once when 1st put in..then filed in glove box like rest of useless items....hehehe

    Price wise, was exactly what is shown on the Mitsubishi site. Guess cause it's the 2006, but not complaining. Didn't have an interest in the V6 as long as I could get all options wanted in the 4. Besides, the 4 isn't as painful on the insurance as the 6 is and shockingly didn't increase too much over what I paid on the firebird.

    The SUV we got was a 2005 Endeavor...and that we did get a pretty decent reduction on...but that was most likely due to buying 2 new ones and one of them being a year old..so to speak.

    LOL..and don't feel bad...I babble too at times..usually when it comes to computers thou :)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Tsk, Tsk, Rocky - you're out of line here, but I won't debate your politics in a car forum.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    Well, that's good news for Suzuki...

    ...no more having to sell rebadged Daewoo's in the US.

    :P
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Just curious.....Who baught Suzuki from GM ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The same goes for Slick Willy. Just so you don't think I'm saying Bush is the only one. ;)

    I'm not playing politics but am stating facts about what it takes to get government handouts on K-Street. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    :P

    Rocky
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    because your leg muscles are stronger than your arm muscles...well unless you're a freak or something.

    Unless your somone with a disablilty...like me with muscular dystrophy...who don't have leg muscles stronger than their arm muscles!!!
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    "Just curious.....Who baught Suzuki from GM ? "

    Suzuki itself, whoever that represents, bought the shares back from GM.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    ok thanks....So they are independent once again. ;)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Foot or arm lever.

    If you're coming up to a stoplight and apply the brake and NOTHING HAPPENS, which is easier and more intuitive? to push with your foot on a pedal that applies the rear brakes or use one of your arms as you're trying to steer and think where to steer to miss the cars stopped ahead of you and pull backwards and upwards on a lever under the front seat or between the front seats?

    I vote for the foot pedal leaving your arms free to downshift into LOW or first for engine braking and to steer around objects if possible!!!!

    Remember you don't know your brakes don't work until you push on the pedal and there's a little or no braking--hurry, you have two seconds to get stopped. Decide which to do: push with your foot or let go of the steering wheel and reach for a level which you pull backwards. I had one of those in the past and didn't like it. Counterintuitive.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well imidazol97, I for one would rather reach for a lever than have to search with my foot for the misplaced emergency brake that is often very high. I just hope either of us never press down on the brake pedal and Oh ShoooooooooooooT !!!!!! :surprise:

    Rocky
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Oops, sorry about that comment Chuck! I didn't even think of the disability angle.

    BTW, I was driving my '79 New Yorker last night, and the whole foot brake versus handbrake thing was on my mind. Now it's a bench seat car, so naturally it's going to have a foot brake, but it did get me thinking...the emergency brake is so far over to the left and mounted so high that I'd never be able to apply it instantly if I suddenly had to. In contrast a handbrake, which would be mounted about where the armrest is, would be much easier to reach.

    Now on my Intrepid, the footbrake is in a much better position.

    I guess with me, I'm just used to cars with a foot emergency brake (or with older Mopars, the handbrake lever mounted on the left side of the dash that you pulled toward you to engage) so with the console-mounted handbrakes, I have to fumble around for them more.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    People don't practice getting to their emergency brake so they will be able to do it when an emergency happens--if ever. But it's like seatbelts used to be; some people would say they'll fasten their seat belt when they see they're going to be in an accident :grin:

    Picture the ergonomics.

    A person pushing on the steering wheel with one hand to steer onto the should or around a stopped car or ???? and trying to pull backwards and up with their right hand. They are pulling on the steering wheel with their left to provide opposing force for the up and backward pull with their right.

    A person holding onto the steering wheel with both hangs and using their left foot to find the pedal along the left side of their footwell and then pushing on it using the seatback (and steering wheel) to balance the forward pressure they're applying to the pedal

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I've also learned (accidentally) that throwing your car into park while it's moving will usually stop it VERY quickly! Years ago, I had a buddy "park" my '68 Dart at about 30 mph. The first owner of that car did not have a left arm, so the turn signal was altered for use by the right hand. It was still mounted on the left side, but had a long rod that went down, under the steering column, and came up on the right side near the shifter. Well, I had just had a bunch of work done to my car, and let one of my buddies drive it so he could see how it handled. There was a left turn coming up, and he tried to signal with the shifter! That car felt like it stopped INSTANTLY! Stalled out, screeched the tires, and it's just a good thing we were wearing the shoulder straps!

    I accidentally did it to my grandma's '85 LeSabre once, too. I forget why, but as I was coming up to a traffic light, I wanted to shift it up into neutral, but accidentally parked it instead! I was probably only doing around 10 mph though.

    Of course, doing something like this has an excellent chance of messing up your tranny and engine too I guess. But if it comes down to sacrificing your driveline versus having a bad accident, it might be worth it. Of course, accidents are usually so spur-of-the-moment that people just don't have time to think and react, even WITH good brakes!
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I vote for the foot pedal leaving your arms free to downshift into LOW or first for engine braking and to steer around objects if possible!!!!

    Which foot do you work the clutch pedal with?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I was thinking the exact same thing. The current Caddy CTS with a manual has this same set-up and the MT editors complained about that very same thing.

    Rocky
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    If you're coming up to a stoplight and apply the brake and NOTHING HAPPENS, which is easier and more intuitive? to push with your foot on a pedal that applies the rear brakes or use one of your arms as you're trying to steer and think where to steer to miss the cars stopped ahead of you and pull backwards and upwards on a lever under the front seat or between the front seats?

    Maybe it depends on the kinds of cars a person has driven in his/her lifetime. If someone only had experience with cars with automatic transmissions and shift lever mounted on steering column, then left floor foot brake is most likely how those cars were equipped. On the other hand, if one has driven foreign brands (Euro, Japan) with manual transmission shift lever on floor with emergency brake next to shift lever, then it is second nature to reach for the emergency brake handle when needed.

    Another thing about manual trans foreign cars is that you are most likely to "always" engage the emergency brake when parking the car. I think that many drivers with auto trans merely put the trans in Park and not engage the emergency. Our current foreign brand cars have auto trans with center mounted brake lever and we always engage the brake when parking. This provides a familiarity with the brake and probably would help our brains to send our right hand to the brake instantaneously in an emergency. This also keeps the emergency brake mechanism (levers, cables, etc) moving and not get corroded or otherwise gummed up. For those with auto trans who only use Park on trans to park car, it could be that their car if older has a somewhat inoperative left mounted foot brake pedal mechanism.

    Finally, you don't necessarily need both hands on the wheel at all times. After all, it is still legal to own and drive cars with manual transmissions requiring right hand on shifter at times. Would be no different in using right hand to pull on emergency brake lever.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    about this any more. GM had to sell its stake in Suzuki. Goodbye to the corporate clueless...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • george35george35 Member Posts: 203
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Great article.

    Rocky
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Why? You mean as a matter of style? :confuse:
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Most (probably all now) braking systems are dual systems. Failure of both front and rear systems is quite low, unless deliberate, then the emergency brake will also be useless unless the sabeteur is incompetent. A more likely cause for both to fail is that the driver/owner has ignored the warning until the brakes fail completely. This is the usual case for both headlights failing, but as there is no warning that one is gone, the owner who never checks finds that both have failed at once.

    So, yes at one time the parking brake was a backup in the event that your primary braking system failed. Now, there is a double system and complete failure is quite unlikely.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Which foot do you work the clutch pedal with?

    What's a clutch pedal?\

    Actually I have an automatic. I guess manuals need to downshift and then hit the emergency brake?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    An amusing argument, but if your right hand is downshifting, how are you going to use it to engage the console hand brake? :confuse:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It was a good sale. The only good thing about Suzuki is they make a Ducati knock-off called the Hyaboosh. :P

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Pretty much. Foot pedal brakes are almost exclusively the province of old-school Detroit land barges (whether car, truck, or SUV), and wholly incompatible with manual floor shifters. Even on cars equipped only with automatics, the hand brake says, "You'll probably never do rear-brake drifts in this car, but you *could* if the mood strikes you."
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    So, yes at one time the parking brake was a backup in the event that your primary braking system failed. Now, there is a double system and complete failure is quite unlikely.

    But, with even half a failure, you will probably need the emergency brake.

    I had a Pontiac that had the dual system and a brake line corroded through and popped as I was coming to a traffic light stop on a 50 MPH road. I recall that the stopping deceleration was reduced quite a bit, as would be expected, and I had to use the emergency brake. I was close to home and then was able to drive the car quite gingerly to my garage. The failed line was going to the rear and I replaced it myself.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    My mom never uses the parking brake on her 84 Mercury. Now the cables are corroded. I have always engaged the parking brake on my cars, so they don't corrode quite as fast.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The hand brake is conveniently located immediately behind the shifter. 5th to 4th to hand brake, one smooth motion. Having a short-throw shifter does make it faster.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I think that the 84 Corvette's hand brake was the best design.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    But now your left foot is also off the clutch and lifted up so moving it over to the parking brake is an easy smooth motion too ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Didn't the federal gov't start mandating dual master cylinders in 1968? I know my '68 Dart has a dual, but my '67 Catalina is single.

    If both braking systems fail at once though, why would the emergency brake also be useless? The E-brake is cable operated and simply pulls the leading rear shoes forward into the drum, or in the case of disc brake cars activates the mini-drum in back.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I think both braking system would fail only because of sabotage, and a competent saboteur would disable the emergency brake too. ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    okay, gotcha. Hmm, I wonder if someone was out for blood one day when I hopped behind the wheel of Grandma's '85 LeSabre and the pedal went right to the floor? :surprise:

    If a brake hose dry-rots and leaks, won't that disable the whole system? Even a dual system? I had that happen on both my '68 and '69 Darts.

    We never did figure out what made the brakes fail on the LeSabre. That car had other issues at the time, and I was considering getting rid of it eventually anyway, so the brakes were just the final straw.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Not for me. The foot pedal in the Citation (and my dad's '98 S-10) was almost buried in the bottom of the dashboard, so I had to lift up my entire leg to get my toes high enough to hook on the bottom edge of the pedal. A foot pedal that sat as low as a typical clutch pedal would be easier to reach, but you'd lose a lot of cable travel that way (which means you'd really have to stand on it to get the same braking force).

    Dual master cylinders were mandated in 1967. Side markers were 1968.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I think a leak should only disable one part of the system. A leak should result in a warning light I think. I think that the parking brake should be a back up system, but I am not convinced that a console hand brake is better than a foot brake. A compromise is the 84 Corvette's hand brake.
This discussion has been closed.