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General Motors discussions

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  • veligerveliger Member Posts: 30
    - News about Chrysler's 300 loosing momentum has been greatly exaggerated. Not only is the 300 enjoying healthy sales, but its cousin, the Charger, is gaining.

    The 300 is still doing well, BUT, the Charger has huge inventory numbers. Last time I looked it had something like a 120 day supply. Hot cars don't have 4 months worth of inventory.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    was done partly in response to the Ford LTD, which came out in 1965, but still beat the Caprice to the market. IIRC the Caprice was a mid-1965 entry. There was the Fury VIP, too, which was the same type of trim level.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    They really over estimated the success of the Charger. Who wouldn't think that a 300 with a lower price tag would outsell the 300? It doesn't.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I looked at the 2005 trucks and they all say see dealer except the Yukons which is $7500. Sounds high but it is not only last years model but also 2 model years behind the all new 2007's which are coming out now. According to Automotive News Incentives page there are no other 05's (except the large trucks) with a discount.

    Still looking for the $6000 off on 2006's though. Hoping my Envoy XL I am buying gets the big discount because it is out of production now.

    I did get into the Automotive News incentive site and all the old big 2006 SUV's/trucks have discounts ($5500 on Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban, $4000 on avalanche, $2500 on pickups) but still only $1000 on the Envoy's.

    Still hoping Igor can sniff out the big discounts for me!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    what kind of deal I could get on a new Charger SE? I shouldn't be entertaining the thought but hey, as Bob Barker always said....if the price is right! :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, get a nice Dodge Charger SRT8 Hemi!!!
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,284
    An amusing proposed solution to GM's excess of models and divisions:

    Cadillac
    Chevrobuitiac
    Saaturn
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    But is it worth $45-46K loaded up ???? If the next CTS-V is fitted with GM's new "high quality" interiors then for a few more grand the CTS-V with 75+ hp. and a stick will prove to be a much better buy. ;)

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Thanks Igor, unfortunately the big discounts are only on the now 2 model year old large trucks. They are going to have a hard time getting rid of them with the new trucks out at the lower MSRP.

    Every 2006 GM vehicle has less than $1000 discount except for the big old trucks. Heck Honda is offering $1000 on their Ridgeline, more than what I can get on an Envoy!!
  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    >'Someone' refused to do a job,

    The management of the company is/hasbeen well-paid throughout this.

    Doesn't have a thing to do with someone refusing to work. If you don't like the way your bosses are paid, go get another job. I prefer to do my job and not worry about what the boss is paid.

    Turboshadow
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    while I was quite interested in the auto-industry during the 60's, I was not in the market for a car of my own till 1969. At this point in time I don't recall a lot of details. I sort of recall something about division exec's having to drive the divisions cars. Whether that had anything to do with bringing out the Caprice, I don't know. If Ford came out with an upscale Ford, then Chevy would have to match it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    that thing about the auto execs having to drive their own divisions cars, but I thought that was later on? Wasn't that the main reason for the Pontiac Grand Ville in 1971?

    Back in the 60's and even the 70's, a Caprice really was a nicely trimmed car inside. Nicer, in many ways than a base Bonneville, Electra, or Ninety-Eight. Although by the mid '70's, all the cars started getting really plush in their upper trim levels.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Am I alone in thinking that problem with GM is a cost structure, not a number of divisions per se? If GM had only one division it still could not compete with Toyota.

    Depends on what you mean. The number of divisions is a problem for a number of reasons. Not only does it create excess bureaucracy within the company, which likely creates a competition for and a misallocation of resources, but it also creates brand confusion for the customer. It also carries with it redundant dealer networks that effectively cannibalize each other, rather than provide product variety to the marketplace, which was the whole idea of the divisions in the first place.

    The main purpose for having seperate divisions is to create brand identification that makes each brand and nameplate distinct from each other. If consumers don't see a tangible and positive difference between Chevy and Pontiac, then each brand harms the other, as consumers can't see the value of either if they simply blur together.

    That being said, renaming all the current cars as Chevrolets, etc. wouldn't help, either. The GM organization would save substantial sums if it begin combining nameplates AND reducing the number of different models/ marques that it sells. In addition to saving money, it would also allow the company to develop some distinct, unique products, and then craft a unique identity for each one of them so that they can compete.

    If you're going to create a marque, then you need to create a distinct identity for that marque so that consumers understand it, look for it, and willingly pay whatever it is that you'd like to charge for it. Too many marques creates the same dilution and confusion effect that is created by too many divisions.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    'Someone' refused to do a job,

    The management of the company is/hasbeen well-paid throughout this.

    Doesn't have a thing to do with someone refusing to work. If you don't like the way your bosses are paid, go get another job. I prefer to do my job and not worry about what the boss is paid.


    Well I guess if you work at McDonalds and don't like what your boss is being paid, then yes Burger King, for you is just down the road. ;)

    However most people care about their careers obviously more than you and that's why they are peeved because their boss is making a undeserved salary. Go get another job is a answer by a Wal-Mart employee.
    "Hey K-Mart is hirring" ha ha ha... :confuse:

    Whatever.......

    Rocky
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I hope that company fails miserably. :mad: I also hope those scabs get their butts kicked for taking someones income away :mad:

    While I don't approve of any company not treating employees fairly, I have no issues with someone willing to take someone else's job.

    We are all basically replaceable, some more than others.

    So called scabs have a right to work as anybody else.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    If you don't like the way your bosses are paid, go get another job. I prefer to do my job and not worry about what the boss is paid.

    Or try to get the bosses job, he's a dead beat anyway. Right?. Nothing wrong with trying to move up. Bottom line, if your getting paid a fair wage, you shouldn't worry about what your boss is making. Most middle managers are not overpaid, particularly when many work 20 hrs of OT a week w/o OT pay.

    Last I checked, not to many people are tied to their job. My opinion, if you don't like how the company you work for is run or where your career is headed, look for another job. Life is to short to have a job your unhappy at.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Have you seen what a Charger looks like?

    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Is the CTS-V worth the money paid over the CTS with the 3.6 V6? If ya need lots of HP, you can always get a Chrysler 300C. Save another $20K.

    Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The CTS-V Loren will run circles around a 300C. I'm not sure if that's a good comparison ???? Hell the STS RWD with a Northstar will run with a 300C and it(300C) has 30 more horsepower. ;) but is not even in the same ball park when it comes to total luxury.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    While I don't approve of any company not treating employees fairly, I have no issues with someone willing to take someone else's job.

    We are all basically replaceable, some more than others.

    So called scabs have a right to work as anybody else.


    So you feel it's ok for scabs to cross a union picket line when they(strikers) are trying to improve working conditions, pay, benefits, at their place of work ????? We agree on alot of stuff diesel, but this is one area that we obviously disagree. ;)

    Lets put this way. If someone crossed my picket line, they'd be in the hospital and I'd be in Jail. ;)

    Rocky
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    So you feel it's ok for scabs to cross a union picket line when they(strikers) are trying to improve working conditions, pay, benefits, at their place of work ????? We agree on alot of stuff diesel, but this is one area that we obviously disagree. ;)

    Lets put this way. If someone crossed my picket line, they'd be in the hospital and I'd be in Jail. ;)

    Rocky


    Well I'm playing both sides of the fence. I understand why a union is employing a strike and it is their right to do so.

    At the same time, I can't blame a person crossing a picket line to earn a living. May not be a wise thing to do, but it is their right regardless.

    Not all strikes are created equal. Walgreens has union pharmacists in their Chicago area stores. They went on strike last summer and 1/2 the members crossed the picket line.

    And who's right on what's fair? Just cause the union thinks it's fair doesn't mean it is. Maybe the company really can't afford to pay the wages the union feels it's worth. What's the company to do, if it feels it's right, just give in...

    If I ran my own company, I'd do what ever I could (within the law and good judgment of course) to avoid union membership. I would pay my employees what was reasonably fair and I would create a fair work atmosphere (this is not rocket science). But my first priority would be profitability, without it you can't have job security.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well I'm playing both sides of the fence. I understand why a union employing a strike and that is there right to do so.

    At the same time, if I can't blame a person to cross a picket line to earn a living. May not be a wise thing to do, but it is their right regardless.

    Not all strikes are created equal. Walgreens has union pharmacists in their Chicago area stores. They went on strike last summer and 1/2 the members crossed the picket line.


    Unfortunatly they do have the right to cross a picket line. In Canada for one it's illegal. And yes it isn't wise to cross, when the union is united.

    diesel, I don't hate management when it's fair and treats it's employees with repect. Their just happens to be some company's that have good management, and others aren't so good. The type of management I can't stand is a system where you got to kiss [non-permissible content removed] to move up. A system where merit is a minor requirement.

    Ex. One of my supervisors at work got promoted because he went and shoveled his boss's driveway and walkway(at home) by hand. :surprise:
    Some of the other guys that had college degrees or had good leadership skills weren't promoted. :confuse:

    BTW- This guy also last summer tried to send us over to the fire dept. for breathlizers. Wanna know why ???? :surprise: Because we had some JIM BEAM BARBEQUE SAUCE we put on chicken during a "feed" as the say in Texas->:cry:If I ran my own company, I'd do what ever I could (within the law and good judgment of course) to avoid union membership. I would pay my employees what was reasonably fair and I would create a fair work atmosphere (this is not rocket science). But my first priority would be profitability, without it you can't have job security. :)

    Well diesel a union isn't neccessary in all places of work. A good leader can avoid a union when he/she treats employees with respect and fair pay. ;)

    Rocky
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Rock,

    While I'm generally not pro union. I agree that unions are/have been necessary. Certainly, I wouldn't nor should anyone have to put up with the things you mentioned and I don't doubt for a minute these things happen.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well I suppose on the track, that may be true. Not many people actually racing CTS-V, though I did like the looks of the one I saw at Laguna Seca during the American LeMans. Most people just buy these high powered luxury cars for bragging rights on HP. More likely to see a Miata owner going full throttle down the road than a Cadilac owner doing so. Went to a Caddy dealer one day to look at CTS cars with a stick. Not a one on the lot. They look like you are a little crazy for asking -- ummm, the more I think about it, it is a crazy request. First of all, the stick is likely not very good, and secondly, the resale would suck big time - no doubt. I guess the CTS-V is a stick, but they sell how many of those -- one or two a year per dealer???

    For a street car, the V6 would be a good balance for fuel economy, performance, better car balance, and cost. For go fast speed the GTO would be good, as would the 300C, which also looks like pretty good luxury to me. I hope the seats in the new CTS are better than he original car, which had little lumbar support. And please, would does it take to get GM to put telescopic steering in these cars. As for the interior, I guess it is better, but far from World class. Yeah, likewise with the 300, not bad, but not the best. It is just the cost of a Cadillac -- people expect more.
    If I find one a year or two old, with good seats, I may do a test drive of the CTS. The CTS-V seem like a waste of money to me. That is " to me " and of course if someone has gotta have something, then is worth it that person. Sort of like paying an extra $2 to 5K on a Solstice, of a Mustang GT when they came out. Whatever make ya happy.

    Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    They do happen. It's scary. diesel, some of the story's I could tell you would make your heart stop. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well as one who's really considering the next CTS and/or CTS-V I hope they (GM) makes both of us happy. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Why don't you go test drive a Acura TL-6-Speed, Navigation with Voice Recognition, Summer Tires ????? If you don't care about size the TSX is pretty nice. However I will reccommend the TL. It's very fun and affordable. Here's a pic of my 05' under photo album.

    http://www.carspace.com/rockylee/?50

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You live in Cali right ?

    My FIL G/F said her friend has a "new" Shelby GT500 they baught in California. I guess her B/F is a hot shot lawyer that new some people. My FIL G/F said it says Shelby on the dash and GT500 on the doors at the bottom. The weird thing is they said it was an automatic. Does the new Shelby come with an automatic ????

    I'm saying B.S. until I see it in person. Just was wondering if you or anyone else has got their hands on a stowed away Shelby GT500.

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2007-Ford-Shelby-GT500-Production.htm
    GM is a little behind Ford on Pony cars.... well maybe more than just a little. The Camaro project does off some hope though.

    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Not sure what was bought in California, but I doubt it was the 2007 Shelby because it is suppose to be out this summer.

    The Mustang California edition is out. Looks like for around $24K you can get a GT with a V6. Isn't a base GT like $25K or so? I see lots of Mustangs selling in the $28K+ range, which I find to be a bit much. And then there is the Saleen for $47K. Wow- if ya got the bucks, and don't want a Corvette, you can get a 330HP Stang/Saleen.
    Not sure I like the plastic add-on stuff. For the bucks, I would go Vette.

    Wonder if Chrysler beats GM to production time for their pony cars ?

    Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Sure is a nice looking car. I'd love to own one. My first clue to her car not being a Shelby is where the fancy writing on the dash ? ;) I figured it was B.S. !!!! I also wonder if you can even get a automatic in the shelby ???? My FIL told me he's skeptical about her Shelby automatic convertible being a true story. They mysteriously never bring it to town when he's home and is farming. :confuse:

    BTW- wouldn't be sweet sitting at a stop light next to a 07' Shelby GT500 in a Five Hundred and something horsepower 2007 Cadillac CTS-V. :shades:

    It would be my dream. ;) Myself in a Black 2007 CTS-V with superior fit and finish and a 7.0 "UAW hand made" V-8 called the LS-7. vs. a Punk Teenager in his Mommy or Daddy's Shelby GT500. :shades:

    VAROOM VAROOM VAROOM !!!!!!!!!!!!! :surprise:

    hahahahahaha !!!!!! BYE BYE BYE "SHELBY" ahhhhhhh!!!!! Tell Carroll I said hello and also tell him he should of gutted it out at GM...... :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Saleen is a waste of money in my opinion. I think the extra hp. yielded a tenth of a second during a recent test. I'm sure all the cladding didn't help things. ;)

    Yeah Loren I think it's all a lie as far as my FIL G/F telling him her G/F has a new Shelby GT500 Convertible and it being an automatic. :confuse: The Vette is indeed a better buy. I'm sure I could dig up the difference underneath the cushions. :D BTW- I cn get a GM discount on a "Z-51" Vette so it would be a better buy for me anyways. But kudos to Ford for making a nice Stang that's going to sell $10-20K over sticker. :sick:

    Thanx

    Rocky
  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    However most people care about their careers obviously more than you

    Thanks for the personal attack. For your information, I am a CAREER engineer, and I try to make the best career moves possible.

    and that's why they are peeved because their boss is making a undeserved salary.

    Once again, the bosses may or may not be making an 'undeserved' salary. Just because the employees percieve it that way does not make it so.

    Go get another job is a answer by a Wal-Mart employee.

    No. No it isn't. It is a rational response.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    An editorial page cartoon in today's Dayton Daily by Basley of the Salt Lake Tribute shows a guarge and a detective looking at empty shelves in a large vault with an empty money sack and a few coins left on the floor.

    A guard standing at the bank type vault door asks "What does one call brzen theft of tens of millions?"

    The answer is "In American it's called CEo compensation."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • solissolis Member Posts: 4
    We were looking for a low-cost car to do the dirty work for the Lexus and our only gripe with the Lumina was its funky interior, we got a Ford Mondeo instead, a true workhorse with a spacious interior.
  • solissolis Member Posts: 4
    No, I seriosuly doubt they will be used as the future G8 but I'm almost certain the next generation (due in a year) will be the basis for the G8. Let's just hope the G8 gets more than a kidney grille and hood scoops to set it apart from the Lumina.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Mark Twain said it best over 100 years ago:

    "If you steal a little bit of money, you're considered a common thief. If you steal a whole lot of money, you're considered a successful businessman."
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    ...or a good politician.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...was offered as a limousine.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    For a long time Oldsmobile was known as the experimental division. They introduced the hydromatic in 1940, the hard-top in 1949, the turbo in 1962 and FWD in 1966. It seems to me that GM could use an experimental division.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    It seems to me that GM could use an experimental division.

    Not a bad plan. I'd probably vote for Pontiac, as it's the nameplate with the best hope for crafting a performance image, and such a move would help to reposition it.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    You may be right about when execs started driving their own cars. My dad had a 70 Electra that was a base model. The interior was very plain. I do remember that Oldsmobile was advertising a Regency interior for the 98 in 70's and this interior continued for the life of the 98 I think. The 70's was when interiors went to velour and were plush, some more overdone than others.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Cadillac used the Allante as a new technology leader. Traction control was first introduced on the Allante, at least for GM.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I would not want a CTS_V or STS_V. The 300C is an interesting possibility, as is the wagon version in the Dodge Magnum. I would like to know more about was sort of actual fuel economy one might expect from the hemi if one does not push it too hard.
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    If consumers don't see a tangible and positive difference between Chevy and Pontiac, then each brand harms the other, as consumers can't see the value of either if they simply blur together.

    What's even more insidious about brand confusion, is how GM will take one platform and make 4 mediocre cars instead of just one or two fantastic ones.

    That is why you see missing options like climate control on an Impala; GM puts it in what they perceive to be their "upmarket" cars. Unfortunately for GM, the only people who see the difference between a Chevy, Buick, and Pontiac all work for GM. Nobody else gives a rip. To use that same example, if I want an Impala but require climate control, I'm not going to buy a Buick or Pontiac because it DOES have climate control - I'm going to go buy another vanilla sedan that my peers drive such as Camry or Accord.

    GM still fails to understand that they have to compete with Ford, Nissan, Honda, and Toyota; instead, they still think they need to compete with themselves. And it's going to be their undoing.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    My guess is that not enough Impala's would be sold with automatic climate control to justify the cost of offering it as an option. In the 60's Chevy did offer automatic climate control.

    There is certainly some competition between divisions at GM, but I do not see how that hurts GM. But I would agree that GM does not do a great job of making the different makes of a particular platform distinct from one another, although the Impala, Grand Prix and LaCrosse are better.

    The basic problem at GM is that everything is mediocre->not bad, but not top notch either.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    The basic problem at GM is that everything is mediocre

    Wow, everything? Cadillac's are mediocre? The CTS, STS, DTS and XLR are mediocre? Including the V-series cars? The SRX which was just voted best luxury SUV for the third year in a row by Car & Driver, is mediocre?

    The Silverado, Tahoe and Suburban must surely be sub-standard in your book.

    How about the Corvette? Even the Z06 is mediocre? Gee. You don't think you might be over stating things just a wee bit?
  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    ...or politician. Good or bad.
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    My guess is that not enough Impala's would be sold with automatic climate control to justify the cost of offering it as an option. In the 60's Chevy did offer automatic climate control.

    Considering the dash on the Impala, Grand Prix, and Lacross all accept the same-sized modules, I don't think it would really cost GM anything to put ACC in an Impala.

    You can get ACC on an Altima, Camry, and Accord; why doesn't GM feel it needs to be competitive? My assertion is that they look at their car lines in a vacuum, without taking the "real" competition into account as much as they should.
This discussion has been closed.