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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That's Tiger Woods posing with the Buick Velite concept from 2004. Buick is bringing out a LaCrosse Super special edition that has design similarities to the Velite. (Photo courtesy of Buick)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Know little about it ;)

    Do you have a picture? Northstar? Twin turbo 3.2L would be great but the LaCrosse has only a couple years left before it is replaced with a new architecture. Too much development money to do that. Also I do not believe GM has a twin turbo 3.2 in the US!

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109673
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    GM announced yet another accounting error, this time for $2B. I guess they better hope the Tohoes keep selling.Even those sales gains are suspect since they are compared to year previous figures that were not very good to begin with.
    I could see asking Tiger Woods for advice on a golf club , but his paid endorsements for the Buick line are laughable. Bill C.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well it's getting a 300 hp. Northstar. That will be class leading for a FWD car. ;) Hopefully we will see a
    TT 3.6 V-6

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Where did you see a Northstar?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    LaCrosse looks OK. Now give it RWD, as close to 50/50 weight distribution, and sharp handling, and it will be worth the 22K. As far as engines go, something like the CTS 3.6 V6 would be just great. I am sure they won't develop the smoother inline 6. The current nose heavy FWD doesn't need 300HP. And turbo charging the car is a waste of money. Actually this car may be a good one to use the 3.8 V6 in, as 197HP is plenty for a pleasing highway, and around town cruiser Buick car. A typical Buick car, it does what it can do, and trying to make a performance car out of it just won't work.

    The car should be sold as a value model car, IMHO, and that value is somewhere around $20K to $21K at best. If GM comes back, and resale price firms up a bit, the retail price can do the creep-up.

    The LaCrosse needs a price trimming.

    The Lucerne needs to have the V8 in her to be a value. Or lower the price about $3k on the base, to $5K on the V8.

    The interior on Buicks and the Impala has improved. That is to say to the eye it looks better now. Looks like the Japanese makes are using that fake aluminum paint which is going to rub off, and looks kinda like those cheap $30 boom-boxes. Yeah, you know that cool aluminum face look on your GPX portable player. May work for $30 stereos, but not as a dash on cars. This is one mistake I would note for Toyota and Nissan. Lose the fake aluminum.

    Loren
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    fake aluminum paint which is going to rub off

    It is not paint. But i guess you could call it fake then. Will not rub off. Well I guess I really do not know the process the others use but at GM it is molded into the part.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I read it somewhere....

    Rocky
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    inside line had a brief report on the LaCrosse Super. Supposed to come from a Buick spokes person. However, the Super is years away from production, the 300plus horsepower engine was not identified as a Northstar, so it could be the 303 hp 5.3 Impala SS V8...

    Note that the current FWD HO northstar falls short of 300 horsepower.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    300+ HP and FWD?

    PASS. Twice. Hasn't anyoen at GM firugred out that people don't like big front-heavy cars with torque-steer?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Agree. It would be nice if it had AWD, 6 speed ;)

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Hasn't anyoen at GM firugred out that people don't like big front-heavy cars with torque-steer?"

    Amen, brother. Yes, they finally have, but the DTS has not yet been re-engineered, and the Buick will always be FWD probably.... That's one reason I don't have a Caddy.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    JANESVILLE, Wis. – Demand for big sport utility vehicles will result in some overtime work next month for a General Motors Corp. plant.

    The 3,700-employee Janesville plant hasn't had overtime in about two years,spokeswoman Carolyn Markey said.

    The plant will add two 10-hour shifts on Fridays in late April a 25 percent increase in hours that is expected to last through 2006, Markey said Thursday.

    Late last year, auto analysts had predicted the nearly 90-year-old Janesville plant could close. Instead, the automaker announced plans to cut 30,000 jobs and close 12 other facilities by 2008.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    GM will limit the production of the Impala to 250,000 a year to increase revenues and reduce inventory. That's half of what Toyota plans for the Camry, but it's a step toward a more efficient GM.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    GM's is seeing higher transaction prices for the new Impala, which came out last fall, and the new Tahoe.

    According to J.D. Power and Associates' Power Information Network, the 2006 Impala's average transaction price last month was $22,082, compared with the 2005 model's average transaction of $20,387 a year earlier. (See box.) The base Impala starts at $20,990, including shipping. The top Impala model starts at $26,990.

    The 2007 Tahoe's average transaction price in February was $41,233, compared with the 2006 model's average transaction price last February of $34,546, according to the PIN data.

    The 2007 Tahoe's average turn rate is 13 days, compared with 94 days for the 2006 model. The top-line model Tahoe has a sticker price at $38,990, including shipping.


    The big question is what will happen with the Oshawa plants and production of the 4 vehicles built there. IF they really close plant 2 then what happens to the Grand Prix and LaCrosse? I guess it all depends on when the models are replaced. It will have to be a very coordinated build out of the old W car platform and introduction of the 1. Zeta Impala/Monte Carlo/Grand Prix?, 2. Epsilon 2 LaCrosse.

    The CAW was bidding for a super plant that combined Osahawa 1 and 2 for Zeta. Both plants are under the same roofs and a brand new paint facility was just installed.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    300+ HP and FWD?

    PASS. Twice. Hasn't anyoen at GM firugred out that people don't like big front-heavy cars with torque-steer?


    Actually GM is very surprized how popular FWD, large HP V8's are liked.

    Chevrolet executives monitor dealers' orders daily and make production adjustments, Peper says. One surprise, he says, has been sales of the high-trim Impala SS models with V-8 engines, which the old model didn't have.
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    Situation:
    1. GM widens loss by $2B to $10.6B for 2005, filing of 10K w/ SEC delayed by 2 weeks
    2. Latest setback due to higher N America restructuring charges, Delphi liabilities
    3. Increased loss represents nearly 85% of current market value of automaker
    4. GM also boosts estimate of Delphi pre-tax exposure to $5.5B from $3.6B
    5. Auto supplier Lear Corp received subpoena from SEC in GM pricing investigation

    A RWD Impala and El Camino needed to be on the dealers lots this spring,not revised full sized trucks and SUVs. Cobalt, the also-ran of small cars should have been postponed or canceled. The total Buick re-make has only confused people and moved Buick farther away from it's core customers. And Pontiac? Lets just say G6= Avis, and Torrent, yet another re-bake of the less than class leading Trail Blazer. Mini-Vans? OH yeah , that new front clip for the van family isn't fooling anybody.Drum Brakes on the HHR, that's for sure going to impress the tech-savvy buyer. For those forever optimists, re-reread #3.
    Bill C.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Geeze, I think I may have found my girlfriend's next ride! I wonder if it will look anything like the Velite?

    Oh, the Torrent is Pontiac's version of the Equinox. I think it looks better than the 'Nox. Anyway, for those who bust on the HHR's rear drum brakes, take a look between the slots on the rear wheels of your precious Hondas and Toyotas - drum brakes!
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    single reason that no Asian car maker is interested in buying GM or Ford.

    MB bought Chrysler, but MB had experience with powerful old-style German auto unions. They were willing to accept the risk.

    I wonder if there will be even one unionized auto plant left in the USA by 2015.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    isn't THAT far away!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    take a look between the slots on the rear wheels of your precious Hondas and Toyotas - drum brakes!

    Did you ever open up the hood of almost every Honda or Toyota? Can you believe the engine actually drives the front wheels? They call it FWD and other than trucks it is on about 100% (by volume) of all sedans under $35K? Pretty amazing the RWD's even sell in that price range other than some kind of performance or outlandish style that brings buyers in. I guess they have to get people to buy RWD by calling it a performance vehicle or make it look over the top. You can always get someone to buy anything! ;)
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    GM widens loss by $2B to $10.6B for 2005, filing of 10K w/ SEC delayed by 2 weeks

    If I did arithmetic correctly, this comes to about $40 million per 8 hour business day in a 5-day business week. So, about $5 million per business hour.

    Would be interesting to see a detailed accounting of these losses.

    Article in today's WSJ says that new guy on board, who is working for Krekorian, suggests selling off Saab, Hummer.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    The total Buick re-make has only confused people and moved Buick farther away from it's core customers.

    Know that this is only "one" story, but here goes anyway:

    Saw first Lucerne in person last week - it was in parking lot of appliance store parked in handicapped spot near store door. Senior guy, maybe in 70's(?), was putting his walker in the trunk. Stopped to talk to him and he said he had the V8 and had the car for a week and liked it very much. He traded in a Caddy, but previous to that had many Buicks.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yes the oldies are still buying the Buicks. However they cannot keep up with the bucket seat/large chrome wheels. They have increased tooling substantially to get the product mix correct for the buyers.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    They call it FWD and other than trucks it is on about 100% (by volume) of all sedans under $35K? Pretty amazing the RWD's even sell in that price range other than some kind of performance or outlandish style that brings buyers in. I guess they have to get people to buy RWD by calling it a performance vehicle or make it look over the top.

    A lot of advertising money was spent by US carmakers in past, including GM, extolling the virtues of FWD. No hump in floor, more efficient layout in cabin, better traction in ice/snow, etc. Folks in snow climate still believe this in spite of latest marketing for 300, Charger, Magnum. Remember when Intrepids/Concordes were advertised as how great they were with "cab-forward". All of a sudden, cab-forward is on the scrap heap.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Honda in no-way has the funds to buy GM.. Honda is small beans in comparison to Ford and GM. Honda needs to worry about Hyundai right now. Hyundia is coming on very strong. Beings Honda has limited $$$ for investment and growth. Hyundia is fastly shedding that "cheap Korean" image.. much like the Japanese did.. Remember??
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well they both are right. For space utilization, FWD is good. For car balance and handling, RWD is best. So something can be said, and has been said for both types of cars. I would like to see more RWD cars. I don't need too large a trunk, or to carry five passengers at a time. In USA brands, the Mustang and Corvette are excellent examples of RWD at a reasonable price for their class. The Chrysler 300 seems to have plenty of room inside, and trunk space, though this is partly done by way of high beltline, taller car overall. For snow country, I would imagine the Subaru, with AWD is about a perfect choice, though interior may not be big enough for some family demands.

    FWD, with typical under steering, torque steer, and just plain ol' poor feel to steering having the power to the wheels which are steering, will never be my favorite. Pour on the power and the front comes up and wheels start squealing and then the smoke comes sailing out the front of the car. The first time you see it, you wonder if the engine is on fire :surprise: I can live with FWD as I guess it is better than walking, but it sure is not the best deal for a car - at least in California. Most FWD cars feel so dang front heavy, it is like the whole car is up front, with the rest only a trailer.... wait, it actually is. The Celica is pretty close to the best handling lower priced cars on the road though, and it is FWD. There are a few good ones, though I still prefer RWD.

    Am I in a time warp, or is the new Civic not a cab-forward design? Actually the coupe looks pretty cool. Walked up to one on a dealership lot, and nearly died from sticker shock. It was $20K ! No - not the Si, but rather the EX.

    -Loren
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There are 565,000,000 shares of common stock. Most people will not sell them because they pay a nice dividend each year. It is better stock to own than Toyota. Kerkorian has been buying stock for several years. He has an 8% interest. That is enough to push a man onto the board of directors. Honda would have to come up with at least 250 BILLION dollars to buy GM. They or Toyota do not have that kind of cash or credit. GM stock is WAAAy under valued. They could sell off a small amount of their real property and come up with more than the market cap of 12 billion.

    Honda ain't gettin' my shares of GM.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    The trailblazer sized vehicles are really going to have a tough time this fall when the new crossovers come out.

    NAW. The new Crossovers will simply take over and PRESTO we have a new trend going! LOL
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    A typical Buick car, it does what it can do, and trying to make a performance car out of it just won't work.

    What about the T-Types and the GNX's?
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    The LaCrosse needs a price trimming.

    Yes it does need a trimming...right out of the line-up same goes for the Lucerne. GM (Buick) open your eyes before it's too late. Don't do like OLDS and get rid of the familiar and name yourself right out of exsistence!!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    NAW. The new Crossovers will simply take over and PRESTO we have a new trend going! LOL

    The trend is the same as it has always been. Give customers what they want and that is a large vehicle to haul stuff in. This is a huge market and when the government said that you could no longer build large sedans and station wagons (gas mileage requirements) and we got our first dose of high gasoline prices they were dropped by all makers. Few years later we had minvans, SUVS, and now large crossovers.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    > rid of the familiar

    When they haven't changed a few people criticize; when they make a change, people criticize. Which is it to be?

    Looks to me like they're doing fine. Other than the GM-haters they're selling cars. We'll hear the mantra-chanters with "incentives" and "too costly" and "plastic on the dash" (Oh my! As if Avalon doesn't have a plastic dash problem!!! Yuk.Yuk.) and those things, but I see lots of LaCrosses and lots of Lucernes in this area. AND the drivers look happy.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yep. Lemko I might even be a future buyer of the Super. ;) I would just love to have the Velite Roadster more so. If they ever plan on building it, I will definitely without hesitation buy one :D

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well at $250 billion if that figure is correct, then Toyota couldn't buy them either. ;) gagrice, I read 300 Billion about 3 or 4 years back. It was a estimate of course. I got your back on your figure. :shades: However it would be nice if GM and honda did a merge. Man that would help GM greatly in my opinion. Honda perhaps builds the best cars for the money on average.

    BTW- Hyundai can't hold Toyota or Honda's jockey-strap ;) Hell they can't hold GM's "cup" :P

    Rocky :surprise:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't think your friends in the UAW would welcome a Honda type management team. It is all gungho for Honda. If you don't wave the flag and follow the leader you are gone. Sick leave, how about permanent leave "see ya dude". We don't need no sickly employees. Severance pay, what's that? No Honda or Toyota would not function well in the union atmosphere at GM.

    It would not be a merger it would be a take over of Honda. Of course that would be impossible also. Japan does not allow foriegn ownership beyond 49%
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd like to see any pictures of the LaCrosse Super - drawings, photos, concepts, etc. Why not just call it the Super like back in the day? I hope it's more than just a big engine and silly trim details on a regular LaCrosse.

    What I'd like to see? A RWD/AWD LaCrosse-sized car with unique styling - 4 portholes per side, chrome sweepspears on the side, two round stacked taillights per side, and a massive chrome tooth grille. Give it the instrument panel out of that crossover concept, (name temporarily eludes me).
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    49% in Japan and 51% in the States :blush:

    It would be need to work with engineers and come up with the perfect car. The Acura TL with SH-AWD and 3.2 VTEC V-6 w/ 300 H.P.
    Plus Voice Recognition W/ Navigatin.

    As far comparing goes take a Acura RDX up against anything. It is a well crossover vehicle, loaded with all the bells and whistels. www.acura.com :shades:

    Rocky
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    GM is in no position to take over Honda. As for Honda being aggressive, well that ain't happening, and I would prefer it that way. They didn't take the bait for Rover, and stepped out from a potential Isuzu take over in the mid/late-90s.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    No details yet, but said it would be heavely styled on the Velite (My :cry: Dream) Roadster

    This Buick will perhaps be "Super" but can be unbelievable in a few years. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I see lots of LaCrosses and lots of Lucernes in this area.

    Hmmm. I've seen maybe three LaCrosses and zero Lucernes, yet there are piles of late-model LeSabres and Park Avenues around here. That seems to be the case with GM across the board: the slightly older stuff sold well here (Grand Ams, Impalas, Silverados, Tahoes, Cavaliers, etc.), but the new models are barely trickling onto the road and GM needs a lot more than a trickle to survive.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GM is in no position to take over Honda.

    Japanese protectionism prevents it even if it was possible.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    So what you are saying is they can only merge with Japanese company ? hmmmmmmmm Rocky
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109673

    As I read this statement, which comes from a Buick spokesman, the Super will be some sort of showcar based on the Velite concept car. A production version is not planned yet. The production version might be RWD on a new platform.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    The Lucernes blend in with a foreign look. You may have seen them and not realized they were Lucernes. Everyone said Buick should be more like Toyo and they did. They've got the look-better actually than the Camry/Avalon shape for the new shared? chassis.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Funny you should say that. When I first saw the Lucerne TV commercial, I thought it was for a new model Infiniti or Lexus and was thinking, "Wow! That car is gorgeous! Is it an Infinti?"
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The car that is being called Super is a LaCrosse with some Velite "cues" both inside and out. It is not a new "showcar" but a new model of the LaCrosse. V8 (not northstar), new revised front grill shape. (see Lucerne for grill). Also some specific interior colors and trim. Also well loaded with maybe a few new technology items

    The whole vision for Buick is to move upmarket and bring more style and technology to the portfolio," he said.
    The car will begin to make its media rounds starting on March 28 in New York and again at the Buick Open in Grand Blanc, Michigan, in July.

    So they are showing some sneek peaks to media and maybe the public. Would think this would be a 2007 intro but perhaps an early 2008 (January '07 start of production). All above educated guess's!
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    <<They've got the look-better actually than the Camry/Avalon shape for the new shared? chassis>>

    When did Toyotas actually look as good as Buicks? Buicks and many GM cars have been very stylish while Toyotas have been very bland. Style alone never helped GM that none of stylish GM cars that came in the 90s survived, save the Grand Prix. GM calls it change of marketing strategy. I call it failure.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I have a hard time believing anyone could mistake this:
    image

    for this:
    image

    The only thing I can think of that the Lucerne is even close to resembling is the Hyundai Azera, but I haven't seen any of those on the road yet, either.
    image
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    have a conservative, understated look. Some could even call it bland. I think the Lucerne is the nicest looking of them, though. The Avalon just looks clunky and awkward, and the front-end looks like they tried to graft a '53 GMC grille onto it. I think it's better looking than the '00-04 Avalon, which looked like they tried to tape a different front and rear clip onto a 1978 Malibu test mule, but its still no beauty queen with its swollen nose and awkwards, slanty headlights.

    The Azera's not bad looking, but at that angle looks kinda tall, ungainly, and a bit hatchback-ish. And the way the fenders flare out on it makes it look dated, and a bit swollen. Makes me think of maybe the '69-70 Impala, which had swells around the wheel openings, or those Oldsmobiles and Mopars of the 70's with their "skegs" or whatever they were called. Or even the way cars used to look, before they started integrating fenders smoothly into the overall shape in the 50's.

    But yeah, it would be really hard, I think, to mistake one of those cars for the other.
This discussion has been closed.