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I'm not sure Bob get's it. I will make it brief.
The journalist mentions the rear seat center console, and Bob says it won't make production because of cost. :mad:
My Take: Ya'll want Bob to run GM :confuse:
Hire me, dieselone, lemko, and the rest of ya'll, we will restore GM's respect. That even includes "anthingbutgm" :P
Neways this is a GMtv video and shows everyone that even GM can build benchmarks.
Rocky
If ya haven't seen it, here it is.....
Rocky
Talks about hybrids and the sales flops :surprise:
Rocky
But that thing certainl wouldn't hurt brand equity, once GM can regain enough composure to put into some form of production.
Rocky
Rocky
I'll take a SL55 and be happy
Rocky
I'll agree with you on the Chinese car issue...I'll NEVER buy one, I object on so many levels.
I thought Canadians were suppose to be broke to socialism :surprise:
Obviously you are proving them as liars. I want pics pal.
Rocky
1- Toyota Camry: ------------- 93,775 down 5%
2- Toyota Corolla: ----------- 82,287 up 1%
3- Honda Civic: -------------- 78,479 up 32%
4- Honda Accord: ------------- 76,954 down 0.5%
5- Chevy Impala: ------------- 64,433 up 0.1%
6- Nissan Altima: ------------ 60,628 down 1.5%
7- Chevy Cobalt: ------------- 52,527 up 80%
8- Ford Taurus: -------------- 51,833 down 6%
9- Chevy Malibu: ------------- 46,782 up 2%
10- Hyunda Sonata: ----------- 42,871 up 52%
11- Ford Focus: -------------- 42,251 down 10%
12- Ford Mustang:------------- 40,692 down 4%
13- Chrysler 300: ------------ 39,332 up 8%
14- Pontiac G6: -------------- 36,858 up 78%
15- Chrysler PT Cruiser: ----- 32,526 up 16%
16- Nissan Sentra: ----------- 30,787 up 11%
17- Dodge Stratus: ----------- 30,666 up 7%
18- Ford Fusion: ------------- 29,845
19- Dodge Charger: ----------- 28,908
20- Chrysler Sebring: -------- 27,104 up 12%
P.S.
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/showpost.php?p=752309&postcount=26
A nice writeup on SAE changes. Toyota lost a lot of HP with their engines. GM - already changed to the newer, more realistic standard. I'm going to side-by-side test the 3.8 LaCrosse and the 3.6 tommorrow morning.
I'll post my impressions.
I know this is really long-term type of stuff, but if, hypothetically, four decades from now all the surveys are saying that Chinese cars are pretty much comparable to the Japanese/Americans in terms of quality, and they're half the cost - the market will go there. Happened with textiles, shoes, apparel, etc. Just takes time.
For the record, I'm not opposed to the whole globalization thing. Just sayin.
A larger Solstice would be nice. The Solstice is a skosh small for some, yet appropriate sized as a sports car. I like the Z4 sized sports cars, though I have driven the small cars, and they are fun. The styling may be too close on the Velite to the Solstice and Sky.
What they really need is something to fill the need of those wanting a pony car. A really cool, lightweight coupe, about the size of the original Camaro, using aluminum to hold down the weight, and good V6 for power without using too much gas, and a modest starting price tag, using options for those in need of lots of power options and toys. That extra wide, and likely expensive Camaro retro car may be fine for limited production, with a monster engine, but too costly, and too thirsty an engine when gas hits $3.50 a gallon, may not be something everyone can afford, or want at all. Just a thought.
-Loren
Delphi-Miller News
Yep, that's what variable valve timing gets you.
VQ35DE
What I would like to see are graphs like GM posts on its website from other manufacturers. I am not aware of where to find such graphs.
True, but that doesn't really affect the shape of the curve, just the magnitude.
Car one seems to have the horsepower drop off to zero below 2300 RPM's, suggesting that the torque also drops off rapidly at low speeds.
I think that's an artifact of the program trying to extrapolate a curve below 2500 rpm.
This is a perfect example, imo, how behind the 8 ball GM is. While Toyota has people on a waiting list to get a Prius, I see nothing out of GM. GM did come out with a hybrid truck a year ago, but it didn't do much for sales or gas milege.
GM does alot to publisize their research in alternative fuel cars, but they have nothing to show for it in sales/revenu/profit.
It wasn't even a "hybrid" in the sense that most people would think of. It was basically a regular truck with a bigger alternator and an inverter so you could run power tools off the battery. You could do the same thing yourself with a trip to Autozone. GM is pinning its hopes on fuel cells and apparently expects the hydrogen infrastructure to simply fall out of the sky.
Here are a bunch of links that all say the same thing.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-51,G- GLD:en&q=hybrid+break+even
Also read that buyers overall are not getting the "promised" epa gas mileage they expected.
Hopefully by '08 the automakers will have the costs down and Hybrids will make more sense. Lets not hope it makes sense because gas goes over $5!!
GM does have a bunch of low costs hybrids coming out and I do not think anyone in the public knows whether they will make economic sense. We will have to wait and see.
I am wondering if the E85 stuff will catch on. Lots of issues and work to do before it may work. Few stations, Ethanol production issues, etc. But if we really want to cut out the overseas oil this may be one way someday.
Probably legal issues as well. The gun manufacturer sued GM for using the name. GM's somewhat lame response was that it was a combination of "Berlinetta" (from the Camaro I think) and something else. Pretty weak, but I always liked the car...
Whoa, you think Toyota is LOSING money on the Prius? I dont' think that's right. Yes, there's alot up front to invest, but over the long haul it looks like it will pan out nicely.
yes EPA numbers aren't real world numbers, but that applies to non hybrid's as well - so it'a wash.
Are you insinuating that it's a strategic decision by GM not to go hybrid?
Bottom line, many of the items that make our vehicles more efficient, cost money. I'm sure a carburated, ohv engine with a 3 speed costs much less than the powertrains we use today. Are we getting our money's worth? Performance wise no doubt, but evaluated on purely economics, maybe not.
Ex. My boat has a fuel injected 305 chevy v8. When I bought it (2003), I could have got a carbed 305 for $1800 less. I decided I wanted the cleaner burning engine that also had 50 more HP, but regardless I spent $1800 to get a boat that starts by just a turn of a key, gets minimal better fuel economy, and goes maybe 2-4 mph faster. The debate in the boating circles still goes on whether fuel injection is worth the $$, for some it is and for others it's not.
I do not have access to Toyota's balance sheets but there have been articles on the hybrids that experts have said they are not making money on them. I could not find the links though.
Yes, the epa's numbers are off for almost all cars for normal drivers but they are really off for the Hybrids.
http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html
last lawn mower I bought, I paid a bit more for the 4 stroke overhead cam engine. It burns so much cleaner. Thankfully now the 4 stroke has caught on and the world is better off for it.
If you enjoy the great outdoors, it worth keeping the outdoors great.
http://www.hybridcars.com/discussion/discussthread.php?thread_id=100
Hopefully they will become more economical in time. I know the EPA is trying to straighten out the ratings for all cars.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109930
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Pony Car War
Camaro vs. Mustang, Check it out
Rocky
Rocky
This is typical GM short-sightedness. Gas will be over $4 a gallon in a few years. At that time HonYota will be on their 3rd or 4th gen hybrids, and the kinks will be all gone. The volume efficiencies will be established.
Heck, we're still waiting for modern GAS engines from the Big Daddy.
Honda I agree perhaps makes the best engines overall, but it's not like they are light years ahead of GM. Granted when compared to Ford and Chryslers current crop, I agree they are.
Rocky
Thanks,
Rocky
Solstice lacks a roll bar, and a usable trunk. Better to get a used Z4 and have something safer and more roomy. The Mercedes SLK is also an awesome little car.
-Loren
Rocky
The Swiss are very conservative, so perhaps the name Lucerne doesn't work well here.
-Loren
Rocky
-Loren
Interior - I have to say, the Lucerne is nice inside - almost comparable to my dad's older Park Ave Ultra - which is to say, the first "Buick" interior in years. It feels as nice inside as an Avalon, though it has a better layout.
I really liked the version with the bench seat. Better cupholders, more space, a real armrest(much longer than in the standard version) - and the biggie - the traction control switch is on the end of the shifter! (not some tiny button on the dash) Plus it fits 6 in a pinch and opens up the front - making it feel much more spacious.
Black. Black with the dark grey alloys - so slick. Only color to get this in.
V8 - okay, it's not RWD - but it drives a lot like a Towncar, power-wise - it just moves. Effortlessly. And it finally has a proper v8 exhaust sound you'd expect. Reminds me on a mid 90's Mercedes E420LWB - which is to say, a darn nice car.
Heavy. Also handles like an old 420LWB/500 series Merdedes as well. Ponderous in turns, though no longer wobbly and floaty - it's more like driving a very powerful metal brick. 90s S-class drove the same-like it carves its own line down the road, like a tiny train. Deadens road and engine noise wonderfully, though.
Overall, impressed other than size and the lack of real amenities in the rear, like custom climate controls, reading lights... Front is nice, but the back seats aren't even in the same class as the Avalon or A6.
Then I drove the base LaCrosse. It was nice - liked the dash better in fact - very nice layout. Lighter, less ponderous/luxury brick-ish. The engine... okay, I give up - the 3800 is a piece of junk compared to the V8. I was driving it - and it worked like I expected - zero power if you hit the pedal lightly and revved it from 1500rpm at 40mph(cruising) and wanted to get to 50 quickly. Hit the pedal for half a second and let it off - felt like accelerating in overdrive - nothing nothing - downshift hard to make up it's mind for it, or roll-on quietly every so slowly.(those who know how a Buick or Camry v6 behaves at 60mph in overdrive - 60-80 is ponderously slow or sharp and agressive - not much inbetween.
As we expected - and it's an okay engine. I guess.
Then I drove the 3.6. This is what made my mind up on the 3800 being junk. The 3.6 - it was like a 3/4 sise Northstar. Same effect as the Lucerne V8, but scaled down. no pedal-lag. Zero. Less than on the V8 in fact - felt very linear, like a V8 or big diesel Mercedes.
Net effect:
Lucerne V8 - plenty of power with the transmission it has - no need at all for a 5 speed. Was a bit odd - the hood slopes down fast and with that much power, you feel almost perched in the driver's seat ready to fly out. Lol. Never had that feeling in a Buick before.(though it is more common with European cars)
Lucerne V6 - dreadful. Your father's Buick by comparison. Needs an extra gear to tighten up the lag/dead spots. Had to downshift all the time to pass. Had to downshift to get out of its own way at a light.(20mph roll-through a light in traffic to no traffic and getting up to speed) IE - road is clear, let's get going. It didn't. Lurched as well - no no no power - POWER - Please don't rev me to death trying to move this heavy car quickly, Camry 4 cylinder experience.
LaCrosse 3.6 - given the lighter weight, exactly fine with the 4 speed transmission. Wonderful to drive. NO downshifting even when I revved it to 3500rpm and went quickly from 30mph to 50mph. Jaw-dropping improvement in the engine.
LaCrosse V6 - burn it. Take the blueprints and destroy them, because it drives exactly like an old Regal or Century. No - seriously - it's dreadful and you have to rev the engine hard to use any of the power. It's lighter than the Lucerne, but the suspension is much softer, so it's overall a net loss compared to the v6 in the Lucerne.
I also test-drove a Camry V6(Totyota was across the street) - felt exactly like the 3800. Lots of power, but none of it immediately from low-rpm cruising.(and all of them will downshift to the highest gear they can once you reach your cruising speed)
ICK. That V8 frankly spoiled me. I've come to the conclusion that all of them are now too heavy for a V6, with the exception of maybe the GM 3.6. For $30K+, the car shouldn't have to struggle or do an abrupt downshift to get around in city traffic.
Avalon - felt like - um - a bit like the 3800 in the GM, but it's got the torque closer to the V8 in the Buick, though with the rpm-lag of the 3800/Camery V6. Drove decently well, though, due to the extra gear. ie - the extra gear saved it from "burn it" status. GM's 3800/4 speed combo - gets no reprieve anymore.
I also tried the 3.9L in the Pontiac G6. Same power as the 3.6VVT engine. Same 3800 series lack of immediacy/inabiity to hook up NOW.(stickshift aside - that as fun - 240HP and tight user-controlled shift-points.)
EDIT:
To be more exact on the 3800's behavior, the problem with the 3800 is the gearing is so tall and the torque curve isn't even close to flat. So you can be going 30mph, hit the gas quickly but not hard(maybe halfway down) and back and forth every other second - and other than the engine revving from 1500 to 2500 rpm, NOTHING HAPPENS except a very slow roll-on up 10mph faster. vroom vroom vroom vroom - same speed. Definite dead-spot in the engine's response as a result.
In the 3.6 and V8, I was there. When I wanted. In the 3800, I actually looked at the speedometer twice and I was always going too slow. 10....20...30...40...SLOW unless you hammered it or manually locked overdrive out.
The two newer engines - no problems at all.
>Please don't rev me to death
I thought high reving of OHC motors was desirable as opposed to torque of OHV motors? I don't understand.
>Hit the pedal for half a second and let it off
I don't understand the goal here. When I want to go from 40-60, I push on the accelerator and the car accelerates at a nice, safe pace to 60. If I want to accelerate faster I press the pedal more and the car may downshift rather than disengage only the TCC and I accelerate briskly. If I want to go FAST I floor it and I get rapid movement with lots of motor noise; somewhat like my neighbor across the road with his 3 3.5RLs. When they're in a hurry leaving the driveway, they sound like lawnmowers.
The characteristics you seem to want a car and its motor to have are those of a hotrod car (not a bad thing) while many people buy a car for smooth, economical travel around their area and cross country. Two different goals. If I want a hot car I'd pick up a Vette or BMW. If I want an economical to own and maintain car that gets great mileage I'll pick up another Buick.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,